luelling@gmail.com

This really is a stupid way to resolve a conflict, I think you should play
rock, paper, scissor instead. My .02

Brett

On Jun 8, 2009 1:38pm, Evan Plews wrote:

> Probably is repairable. The carbon simply debonded from the aluminum. I
> just don't have the time or more money to spend on this project.

> ________________________________

> > Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 13:23:51 -0700

> > From: jmsobr@bikeeng.com

> > To: obra@list.obra.org

> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed

> >

> > i'll start the bidding for the broken frame (probably repairable?): $60

> >

> >

> >

> > On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Ty Lambert> wrote:

> >

> > I'll give you fifty bucks to stop this conversation!

> >

> > Sent from Ty's iPhone

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > On Jun 8, 2009, at 12:54 PM, Evan Plews> wrote:

> >

> > _______________________________________________

> > OBRA mailing list

> >

> > obra@list.obra.org

> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --

> > jms, pe pdx, or

> > http://bikeeng.blogspot.com/

> >

> _________________________________________________________________

> Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Get 25 GB of free online storage.

> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009

> _______________________________________________

> OBRA mailing list

> obra@list.obra.org

> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Evan Plews

Probably is repairable. The carbon simply debonded from the aluminum. I just don't have the time or more money to spend on this project.

________________________________
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 13:23:51 -0700
> From: jmsobr@bikeeng.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed
>
> i'll start the bidding for the broken frame (probably repairable?): $60
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Ty Lambert> wrote:
>
> I'll give you fifty bucks to stop this conversation!
>
> Sent from Ty's iPhone
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 8, 2009, at 12:54 PM, Evan Plews> wrote:
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
>
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> jms, pe pdx, or
> http://bikeeng.blogspot.com/
>
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Get 25 GB of free online storage.
http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009

Kevin

FWIW, several years ago I bought a wheel from a member of this list whom I won't name. It was missing a spoke.  I brought the wheel to my local bike shop to make sure I got the correct spoke.  The LBS owner told me the wheel's side walls were worn out and and the wheel was not safe to mount a tire on.

I informed the seller so he would know, and he offered to refund my money.  I declined.......... my stupidity was not his fault.  I know what to look for now.

So my $0.02 is if the buyer looked over the parts before the sale and agreed to the price, the deal was made. Like my wheel experience, if you don't know what to look for in used parts then it's probably best to pay the LBS for their experience and expertise.

Kevin

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What is happening in Kevin's corner of the bike world?

http://the-whir-of-spokes-in-air.blogspot.com

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

--- On Mon, 6/8/09, Evan Plews wrote:

From: Evan Plews
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed
To: sarah.s.tisdale@gmail.com, "OBRA"
Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 12:54 PM

For the record. I traded parts valued at $100 for the said frame. I had to pay $100 for frame "prep" that was not disclosed up front. All I ever asked for was a 50/50 split of the liability--$100.

If Mr Saunders wants to return the STI Shifters and cassette that is a perfectly acceptable solution to me also.

Still 50/50.

----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:11:29 -0700
> From: sarah.s.tisdale@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed
>
> This seems like a very dicey way to settle a dispute. Here's my opinion.
>
> If Evan, after finding out about the extra work required, asked to
> cancel the exchange within ~30 days and before seriously riding the
> frame, I'd side with him.
>
> But since Evan had it for "a few months" and rode the frame
> "~200miles", I'm inclined to side with Dan.
>
> Still, its a little grey and $100 is *fairly* small.
>
> I vote for "do whatever results in fewest hard feelings": Split it
> $50/$50. Evan eats $50 of the cost. Dan gives $50 to Evan. Seems
> the best way to get past any bad feelings.
>
> Sarah
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Ron and Dorothy
> Strasser wrote:
>> Good post Chriss. I also think Dan should be talking to the person who gave
>> him frame "with the understanding that it was a rideable frame" about what
>> that was all about. Sounds like that was NOT the case at all. Might have
>> been an honest lack of knowledge about this frame. The story (facts left
>> our or added) can change as it passes from one person to the next. I do
>> hope Dan and Evan can work this out in a manner that does not get nasty.
>> There are more important things in life than bike stuff, including finding
>> ways to keep your stress levels low.
>> Good luck you two. I am sure you will receive even more "verdicts" from
>> your peers.
>> ron
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chriss"
>> To:
>> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 9:04 AM
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed
>>
>>
>>> No real side here but hey a debate is a debate. As someone who has had to
>>> warranty a frame or two that i've sold I am wondering what Dan would do if
>>> there was a roll reversal here?
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_________________________________________________________________
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that’s right for you.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

john

i'll start the bidding for the broken frame (probably repairable?): $60

On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Ty Lambert wrote:

> I'll give you fifty bucks to stop this conversation!
>
> Sent from Ty's iPhone
>
>
> On Jun 8, 2009, at 12:54 PM, Evan Plews wrote:
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
jms, pe pdx, or
http://bikeeng.blogspot.com/

Ty Lambert

I'll give you fifty bucks to stop this conversation!

Sent from Ty's iPhone

On Jun 8, 2009, at 12:54 PM, Evan Plews wrote:

Evan Plews

For the record. I traded parts valued at $100 for the said frame. I had to pay $100 for frame "prep" that was not disclosed up front. All I ever asked for was a 50/50 split of the liability--$100.

If Mr Saunders wants to return the STI Shifters and cassette that is a perfectly acceptable solution to me also.

Still 50/50.

----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:11:29 -0700
> From: sarah.s.tisdale@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed
>
> This seems like a very dicey way to settle a dispute. Here's my opinion.
>
> If Evan, after finding out about the extra work required, asked to
> cancel the exchange within ~30 days and before seriously riding the
> frame, I'd side with him.
>
> But since Evan had it for "a few months" and rode the frame
> "~200miles", I'm inclined to side with Dan.
>
> Still, its a little grey and $100 is *fairly* small.
>
> I vote for "do whatever results in fewest hard feelings": Split it
> $50/$50. Evan eats $50 of the cost. Dan gives $50 to Evan. Seems
> the best way to get past any bad feelings.
>
> Sarah
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Ron and Dorothy
> Strasser wrote:
>> Good post Chriss. I also think Dan should be talking to the person who gave
>> him frame "with the understanding that it was a rideable frame" about what
>> that was all about. Sounds like that was NOT the case at all. Might have
>> been an honest lack of knowledge about this frame. The story (facts left
>> our or added) can change as it passes from one person to the next. I do
>> hope Dan and Evan can work this out in a manner that does not get nasty.
>> There are more important things in life than bike stuff, including finding
>> ways to keep your stress levels low.
>> Good luck you two. I am sure you will receive even more "verdicts" from
>> your peers.
>> ron
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chriss"
>> To:
>> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 9:04 AM
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed
>>
>>
>>> No real side here but hey a debate is a debate. As someone who has had to
>>> warranty a frame or two that i've sold I am wondering what Dan would do if
>>> there was a roll reversal here?
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_________________________________________________________________
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that’s right for you.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290

craig austin

I'll get my chop saw.

Craig

On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 12:36 PM, eric aldinger wrote:

> In ancient times a dispute could be escalated to the seat of the king. In
> one such case two women partitioned King Solomon for custody of an infant.
> Each claimed the child as her own. The king's suggestion was to cut the
> infant in half and share it among the women. One woman agreed to this
> judgment, the other offered to withdraw her claim to prevent this judgment
> from being carried out. The king ruled that the woman withdrawing her claim
> was the actual mother and awarded the child to her.
>
> The moral here is that a 50/50 split isn't satisfactory for either party,
> unless one party has no real vested interest in the outcome. It is either
> that or we need to cut Dan and Evan in half. Yes, that may be the actual
> lesson.
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Sarah Tisdale wrote:
>
>> This seems like a very dicey way to settle a dispute. Here's my opinion.
>>
>> If Evan, after finding out about the extra work required, asked to
>> cancel the exchange within ~30 days and before seriously riding the
>> frame, I'd side with him.
>>
>> But since Evan had it for "a few months" and rode the frame
>> "~200miles", I'm inclined to side with Dan.
>>
>> Still, its a little grey and $100 is *fairly* small.
>>
>> I vote for "do whatever results in fewest hard feelings": Split it
>> $50/$50. Evan eats $50 of the cost. Dan gives $50 to Evan. Seems
>> the best way to get past any bad feelings.
>>
>> Sarah
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Ron and Dorothy
>> Strasser wrote:
>> > Good post Chriss. I also think Dan should be talking to the person who
>> gave
>> > him frame "with the understanding that it was a rideable frame" about
>> what
>> > that was all about. Sounds like that was NOT the case at all. Might
>> have
>> > been an honest lack of knowledge about this frame. The story (facts
>> left
>> > our or added) can change as it passes from one person to the next. I
>> do
>> > hope Dan and Evan can work this out in a manner that does not get nasty.
>> > There are more important things in life than bike stuff, including
>> finding
>> > ways to keep your stress levels low.
>> > Good luck you two. I am sure you will receive even more "verdicts" from
>> > your peers.
>> > ron
>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "chriss"
>> > To:
>> > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 9:04 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed
>> >
>> >
>> >> No real side here but hey a debate is a debate. As someone who has had
>> to
>> >> warranty a frame or two that i've sold I am wondering what Dan would do
>> if
>> >> there was a roll reversal here?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> OBRA mailing list
>> >> obra@list.obra.org
>> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> >>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > OBRA mailing list
>> > obra@list.obra.org
>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> iamerichearmeroar
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

eric aldinger

In ancient times a dispute could be escalated to the seat of the king. In
one such case two women partitioned King Solomon for custody of an infant.
Each claimed the child as her own. The king's suggestion was to cut the
infant in half and share it among the women. One woman agreed to this
judgment, the other offered to withdraw her claim to prevent this judgment
from being carried out. The king ruled that the woman withdrawing her claim
was the actual mother and awarded the child to her.

The moral here is that a 50/50 split isn't satisfactory for either party,
unless one party has no real vested interest in the outcome. It is either
that or we need to cut Dan and Evan in half. Yes, that may be the actual
lesson.

On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Sarah Tisdale wrote:

> This seems like a very dicey way to settle a dispute. Here's my opinion.
>
> If Evan, after finding out about the extra work required, asked to
> cancel the exchange within ~30 days and before seriously riding the
> frame, I'd side with him.
>
> But since Evan had it for "a few months" and rode the frame
> "~200miles", I'm inclined to side with Dan.
>
> Still, its a little grey and $100 is *fairly* small.
>
> I vote for "do whatever results in fewest hard feelings": Split it
> $50/$50. Evan eats $50 of the cost. Dan gives $50 to Evan. Seems
> the best way to get past any bad feelings.
>
> Sarah
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Ron and Dorothy
> Strasser wrote:
> > Good post Chriss. I also think Dan should be talking to the person who
> gave
> > him frame "with the understanding that it was a rideable frame" about
> what
> > that was all about. Sounds like that was NOT the case at all. Might
> have
> > been an honest lack of knowledge about this frame. The story (facts left
> > our or added) can change as it passes from one person to the next. I do
> > hope Dan and Evan can work this out in a manner that does not get nasty.
> > There are more important things in life than bike stuff, including
> finding
> > ways to keep your stress levels low.
> > Good luck you two. I am sure you will receive even more "verdicts" from
> > your peers.
> > ron
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "chriss"
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 9:04 AM
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed
> >
> >
> >> No real side here but hey a debate is a debate. As someone who has had
> to
> >> warranty a frame or two that i've sold I am wondering what Dan would do
> if
> >> there was a roll reversal here?
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
iamerichearmeroar

Sarah Tisdale

This seems like a very dicey way to settle a dispute. Here's my opinion.

If Evan, after finding out about the extra work required, asked to
cancel the exchange within ~30 days and before seriously riding the
frame, I'd side with him.

But since Evan had it for "a few months" and rode the frame
"~200miles", I'm inclined to side with Dan.

Still, its a little grey and $100 is *fairly* small.

I vote for "do whatever results in fewest hard feelings": Split it
$50/$50. Evan eats $50 of the cost. Dan gives $50 to Evan. Seems
the best way to get past any bad feelings.

Sarah

On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Ron and Dorothy
Strasser wrote:
> Good post Chriss.  I also think Dan should be talking to the person who gave
> him frame "with the understanding that it was a rideable frame" about what
> that was all about.  Sounds like that was NOT the case at all.  Might have
> been an honest lack of knowledge about this frame.  The story (facts left
> our or added)  can change as it passes from one person to the next.  I do
> hope Dan and Evan can work this out in a manner that does not get nasty.
> There are more important things in life than bike stuff, including finding
> ways to keep your stress levels low.
> Good luck you two.  I am sure you will receive even more "verdicts" from
> your peers.
> ron
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chriss"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 9:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed
>
>
>> No real side here but hey a debate is a debate.  As someone who has had to
>> warranty a frame or two that i've sold I am wondering what Dan would do if
>> there was a roll reversal here?
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

Good post Chriss. I also think Dan should be talking to the person who gave
him frame "with the understanding that it was a rideable frame" about what
that was all about. Sounds like that was NOT the case at all. Might have
been an honest lack of knowledge about this frame. The story (facts left
our or added) can change as it passes from one person to the next. I do
hope Dan and Evan can work this out in a manner that does not get nasty.
There are more important things in life than bike stuff, including finding
ways to keep your stress levels low.
Good luck you two. I am sure you will receive even more "verdicts" from
your peers.
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "chriss"
To:
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed

> No real side here but hey a debate is a debate. As someone who has had to
> warranty a frame or two that i've sold I am wondering what Dan would do if
> there was a roll reversal here?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Joe Cipale

Can we get some plastic bracelets made with the imprint: WWDD?

What Would Dan Do?

I think we could make a small fortune and donate money to Alpenrose, The Boosen Kids, AVC, etc... ;)

Joe

chriss wrote:

> No real side here but hey a debate is a debate. As someone who has had to warranty a frame or two that i've sold I am wondering what Dan would do if there was a roll reversal here?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

chriss

No real side here but hey a debate is a debate. As someone who has had to warranty a frame or two that i've sold I am wondering what Dan would do if there was a roll reversal here?

hrdtduck

What the HECK.do I have to do to get off this email string?? I have
cancelled my subscription, made Outlook rules.but I still get email after
email after email from obra-bounce and I am sick of it.......

hrdtduck

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of luelling@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:37 AM
To: OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed

Out of curiosity was it the carbon or aluminum that broke?

On Jun 7, 2009 11:01pm, Dan Saunders wrote:
> Greetings OBRA-land.
>
>
>
> I realize no-one knows me from any races as my plans for cx were cut short
last year by a run-in with a car. Needless to say, I'll be out there this
fall/winter and am riding as much as I can now.
>
>
>
> The situation is this. A few months back I posted a Kinesis MTB frame for
sale. This frame was never built and was given to me with the understanding
that it was a rideable frame. It did have a BB that would require a
press-in BB, but other than that, all measurements seemed standard. The
frame was considered their "pro" I believe, and had a carbon fiber seat
(mono)stay. I chose not to build this bike and put it up to trade. Mr.
Evan Plews took me up on the trade for a pair of shifters and a cassette
that I have not yet put to use. We met, exchanged parts/frame and parted
ways.
>
>
>
> Last week, I received an email from Mr. Plews letting me know that he
broke the frame (I belive at the top of the monostay...I'd call it the
'yoke') after less than 200 miles. He is requesting either: cash for the
work required to get it going (which is not an option), or return of the
parts he traded me.
>
>
>
> My question to you: Should I return the shifters & cassette to Mr. Plews?
It's a bit of a dillema for me as I am generally a pretty nice guy, but an
exchange is an exchange. No warranties were part of the exchange. So, your
answers will be the determining factor. All unique responses (based on
email addresses) will be accepted until 7pm, this Tuesday, June 9th.
>
>
>
> I'm sure obra would appreciate off-line responses, but clarification
questions/answers will be shared, and I will oblige by the tally created
(yes, I can be trusted).
>
>
>
> Thank you for your input.
>
>
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

luelling@gmail.com

Out of curiosity was it the carbon or aluminum that broke?

On Jun 7, 2009 11:01pm, Dan Saunders wrote:
> Greetings OBRA-land.

> I realize no-one knows me from any races as my plans for cx were cut
> short last year by a run-in with a car. Needless to say, I'll be out
> there this fall/winter and am riding as much as I can now.

> The situation is this. A few months back I posted a Kinesis MTB frame for
> sale. This frame was never built and was given to me with the
> understanding that it was a rideable frame. It did have a BB that would
> require a press-in BB, but other than that, all measurements seemed
> standard. The frame was considered their "pro" I believe, and had a
> carbon fiber seat (mono)stay. I chose not to build this bike and put it
> up to trade. Mr. Evan Plews took me up on the trade for a pair of
> shifters and a cassette that I have not yet put to use. We met, exchanged
> parts/frame and parted ways.

> Last week, I received an email from Mr. Plews letting me know that he
> broke the frame (I belive at the top of the monostay...I'd call it
> the 'yoke') after less than 200 miles. He is requesting either: cash for
> the work required to get it going (which is not an option), or return of
> the parts he traded me.

> My question to you: Should I return the shifters & cassette to Mr. Plews?
> It's a bit of a dillema for me as I am generally a pretty nice guy, but
> an exchange is an exchange. No warranties were part of the exchange. So,
> your answers will be the determining factor. All unique responses (based
> on email addresses) will be accepted until 7pm, this Tuesday, June 9th.

> I'm sure obra would appreciate off-line responses, but clarification
> questions/answers will be shared, and I will oblige by the tally created
> (yes, I can be trusted).

> Thank you for your input.

> Dan

Dan Saunders

I am fine with working on the assumption that the work carried out was done in a manner that it did not cause the failure.

________________________________
From: Don Hanson
To: D Grab
Cc: saunders_dan@yahoo.com; OBRA ; Evan Plews
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2009 7:05:04 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed

Not such a simple case.  When someone worked on the frame and then it broke..another element is introduced.  Did that work cause the failure? 
  Don Hanson

On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 6:54 AM, D Grab wrote:

Let loose the litigious hell-hounds of small-claims court!

oh, yeah try a google search of "caveat emptor" for an appropriate legal precedent.

--- On Sun, 6/7/09, Evan Plews wrote:

From: Evan Plews
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed
To: saunders_dan@yahoo.com, "OBRA"
Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 11:17 PM

Since Mr Saunders wants to introduce this to the public forum, I would like to clarify the statment "cash for work required to get it going"

The frame required complete tapping and facing of the BB shell (I knew this upfront). However it also needed reaming of the seattube as the welds were protruding into the tube from both the seatstay and toptube.

Most expensive however was the fact that the internal headset diameter had never been reamed or faced to the proper spec for the Cane Creek press-fit headset standard. This requires a special tool as well.

I am only asking for $100 to cover all the frame prep that was NOT disclosed up front and that is still considerably less than my out-of-pocket expenses to "get it going".

Sorry to bore you all with the details.

________________________________
> Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 23:01:35 -0700
> From: saunders_dan@yahoo.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed
>
>
>
> Greetings OBRA-land.
>
> I realize no-one knows me from any races as my plans for cx were cut short last year by a run-in with a car. Needless to say, I'll be out there this fall/winter and am riding as much as I can now.
>
> The situation is this. A few months back I posted a Kinesis MTB frame for sale. This frame was never built and was given to me with the understanding that it was a rideable frame. It did have a BB that would require a press-in BB, but other than that, all measurements seemed standard. The frame was considered their "pro" I believe, and had a carbon fiber seat (mono)stay. I chose not to build this bike and put it up to trade. Mr. Evan Plews took me up on the trade for a pair of shifters and a cassette that I have not yet put to use. We met, exchanged parts/frame and parted ways.
>
> Last week, I received an email from Mr. Plews letting me know that he broke the frame (I belive at the top of the monostay...I'd call it the 'yoke') after less than 200 miles. He is requesting either: cash for the work required to get it going (which is not an option), or return of the parts he traded me.
>
> My question to you: Should I return the shifters & cassette to Mr. Plews? It's a bit of a dillema for me as I am generally a pretty nice guy, but an exchange is an exchange. No warranties were part of the exchange. So, your answers will be the determining factor. All unique responses (based on email addresses) will be accepted until 7pm, this Tuesday, June 9th.
>
> I'm sure obra would appreciate off-line responses, but clarification questions/answers will be shared, and I will oblige by the tally created (yes, I can be trusted).
>
> Thank you for your input.
>
> Dan
>
_________________________________________________________________
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Don Hanson

Not such a simple case. When someone worked on the frame and then it
broke..another element is introduced. Did that work cause the failure?
Don Hanson

On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 6:54 AM, D Grab wrote:

> Let loose the litigious hell-hounds of small-claims court!
>
> oh, yeah try a google search of "caveat emptor" for an appropriate legal
> precedent.
>
>
> --- On *Sun, 6/7/09, Evan Plews * wrote:
>
>
> From: Evan Plews
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed
> To: saunders_dan@yahoo.com, "OBRA"
> Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 11:17 PM
>
>
>
> Since Mr Saunders wants to introduce this to the public forum, I would like
> to clarify the statment "cash for work required to get it going"
>
> The frame required complete tapping and facing of the BB shell (I knew this
> upfront). However it also needed reaming of the seattube as the welds were
> protruding into the tube from both the seatstay and toptube.
>
> Most expensive however was the fact that the internal headset diameter had
> never been reamed or faced to the proper spec for the Cane Creek press-fit
> headset standard. This requires a special tool as well.
>
> I am only asking for $100 to cover all the frame prep that was NOT
> disclosed up front and that is still considerably less than my out-of-pocket
> expenses to "get it going".
>
> Sorry to bore you all with the details.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> > Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 23:01:35 -0700
> > From: saunders_dan@yahoo.com
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed
> >
> >
> >
> > Greetings OBRA-land.
> >
> > I realize no-one knows me from any races as my plans for cx were cut
> short last year by a run-in with a car. Needless to say, I'll be out there
> this fall/winter and am riding as much as I can now.
> >
> > The situation is this. A few months back I posted a Kinesis MTB frame for
> sale. This frame was never built and was given to me with the understanding
> that it was a rideable frame. It did have a BB that would require a press-in
> BB, but other than that, all measurements seemed standard. The frame was
> considered their "pro" I believe, and had a carbon fiber seat (mono)stay. I
> chose not to build this bike and put it up to trade. Mr. Evan Plews took me
> up on the trade for a pair of shifters and a cassette that I have not yet
> put to use. We met, exchanged parts/frame and parted ways.
> >
> > Last week, I received an email from Mr. Plews letting me know that he
> broke the frame (I belive at the top of the monostay...I'd call it the
> 'yoke') after less than 200 miles. He is requesting either: cash for the
> work required to get it going (which is not an option), or return of the
> parts he traded me.
> >
> > My question to you: Should I return the shifters & cassette to Mr. Plews?
> It's a bit of a dillema for me as I am generally a pretty nice guy, but an
> exchange is an exchange. No warranties were part of the exchange. So, your
> answers will be the determining factor. All unique responses (based on email
> addresses) will be accepted until 7pm, this Tuesday, June 9th.
> >
> > I'm sure obra would appreciate off-line responses, but clarification
> questions/answers will be shared, and I will oblige by the tally created
> (yes, I can be trusted).
> >
> > Thank you for your input.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Get 25 GB of free online storage.
> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

D Grab

Let loose the litigious hell-hounds of small-claims court!
 
oh, yeah try a google search of "caveat emptor" for an appropriate legal precedent.
 

--- On Sun, 6/7/09, Evan Plews wrote:

From: Evan Plews
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed
To: saunders_dan@yahoo.com, "OBRA"
Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 11:17 PM

Since Mr Saunders wants to introduce this to the public forum, I would like to clarify the statment "cash for work required to get it going"

The frame required complete tapping and facing of the BB shell (I knew this upfront). However it also needed reaming of the seattube as the welds were protruding into the tube from both the seatstay and toptube.

Most expensive however was the fact that the internal headset diameter had never been reamed or faced to the proper spec for the Cane Creek press-fit headset standard. This requires a special tool as well.

I am only asking for $100 to cover all the frame prep that was NOT disclosed up front and that is still considerably less than my out-of-pocket expenses to "get it going".

Sorry to bore you all with the details.

________________________________
> Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 23:01:35 -0700
> From: saunders_dan@yahoo.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed
>
>
>
> Greetings OBRA-land.
>
> I realize no-one knows me from any races as my plans for cx were cut short last year by a run-in with a car. Needless to say, I'll be out there this fall/winter and am riding as much as I can now.
>
> The situation is this. A few months back I posted a Kinesis MTB frame for sale. This frame was never built and was given to me with the understanding that it was a rideable frame. It did have a BB that would require a press-in BB, but other than that, all measurements seemed standard. The frame was considered their "pro" I believe, and had a carbon fiber seat (mono)stay. I chose not to build this bike and put it up to trade. Mr. Evan Plews took me up on the trade for a pair of shifters and a cassette that I have not yet put to use. We met, exchanged parts/frame and parted ways.
>
> Last week, I received an email from Mr. Plews letting me know that he broke the frame (I belive at the top of the monostay...I'd call it the 'yoke') after less than 200 miles. He is requesting either: cash for the work required to get it going (which is not an option), or return of the parts he traded me.
>
> My question to you: Should I return the shifters & cassette to Mr. Plews? It's a bit of a dillema for me as I am generally a pretty nice guy, but an exchange is an exchange. No warranties were part of the exchange. So, your answers will be the determining factor. All unique responses (based on email addresses) will be accepted until 7pm, this Tuesday, June 9th.
>
> I'm sure obra would appreciate off-line responses, but clarification questions/answers will be shared, and I will oblige by the tally created (yes, I can be trusted).
>
> Thank you for your input.
>
> Dan
>
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Get 25 GB of free online storage.
http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Evan Plews

Since Mr Saunders wants to introduce this to the public forum, I would like to clarify the statment "cash for work required to get it going"

The frame required complete tapping and facing of the BB shell (I knew this upfront). However it also needed reaming of the seattube as the welds were protruding into the tube from both the seatstay and toptube.

Most expensive however was the fact that the internal headset diameter had never been reamed or faced to the proper spec for the Cane Creek press-fit headset standard. This requires a special tool as well.

I am only asking for $100 to cover all the frame prep that was NOT disclosed up front and that is still considerably less than my out-of-pocket expenses to "get it going".

Sorry to bore you all with the details.

________________________________
> Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 23:01:35 -0700
> From: saunders_dan@yahoo.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed
>
>
>
> Greetings OBRA-land.
>
> I realize no-one knows me from any races as my plans for cx were cut short last year by a run-in with a car. Needless to say, I'll be out there this fall/winter and am riding as much as I can now.
>
> The situation is this. A few months back I posted a Kinesis MTB frame for sale. This frame was never built and was given to me with the understanding that it was a rideable frame. It did have a BB that would require a press-in BB, but other than that, all measurements seemed standard. The frame was considered their "pro" I believe, and had a carbon fiber seat (mono)stay. I chose not to build this bike and put it up to trade. Mr. Evan Plews took me up on the trade for a pair of shifters and a cassette that I have not yet put to use. We met, exchanged parts/frame and parted ways.
>
> Last week, I received an email from Mr. Plews letting me know that he broke the frame (I belive at the top of the monostay...I'd call it the 'yoke') after less than 200 miles. He is requesting either: cash for the work required to get it going (which is not an option), or return of the parts he traded me.
>
> My question to you: Should I return the shifters & cassette to Mr. Plews? It's a bit of a dillema for me as I am generally a pretty nice guy, but an exchange is an exchange. No warranties were part of the exchange. So, your answers will be the determining factor. All unique responses (based on email addresses) will be accepted until 7pm, this Tuesday, June 9th.
>
> I'm sure obra would appreciate off-line responses, but clarification questions/answers will be shared, and I will oblige by the tally created (yes, I can be trusted).
>
> Thank you for your input.
>
> Dan
>
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Get 25 GB of free online storage.
http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009

Dan Saunders

Greetings OBRA-land.

I realize no-one knows me from any races as my plans for cx were cut short last year by a run-in with a car.  Needless to say, I'll be out there this fall/winter and am riding as much as I can now.

The situation is this.  A few months back I posted a Kinesis MTB frame for sale.  This frame was never built and was given to me with the understanding that it was a rideable frame.  It did have a BB that would require a press-in BB, but other than that, all measurements seemed standard.  The frame was considered their "pro" I believe, and had a carbon fiber seat (mono)stay.  I chose not to build this bike and put it up to trade.  Mr. Evan Plews took me up on the trade for  a pair of shifters and a cassette that I have not yet put to use.  We met, exchanged parts/frame and parted ways. 

Last week, I received an email from Mr. Plews letting me know that he broke the frame (I belive at the top of the monostay...I'd call it the 'yoke') after less than 200 miles.  He is requesting either: cash for the work required to get it going (which is not an option), or return of the parts he traded me.

My question to you:  Should I return the shifters & cassette to Mr. Plews?  It's a bit of a dillema for me as I am generally a pretty nice guy, but an exchange is an exchange.  No warranties were part of the exchange.  So, your answers will be the determining factor.  All unique responses (based on email addresses) will be accepted until 7pm, this Tuesday, June 9th. 

I'm sure obra would appreciate off-line responses, but clarification questions/answers will be shared, and I will oblige by the tally created (yes, I can be trusted).

Thank you for your input.

Dan