And just what category are you?

joe cipale

2009-06-24

ya know... I THOUGHT something funny was going on when we were neutralized. I
could have sworn I saw a couple of riders (wasn't one the Gentle Showers
rider in yellow?) make an attack and get away for a short time. They didnt
stay away for too long, but it was uncool, nonetheless.

Joe

On Wednesday 24 June 2009 12:32, Quenton ` wrote:
> This seems like a perfect opportunity to mention the two guys who didn't
> attack until people had already started shouting neutral. then looked back
> and attacked the field.
>
> I thought racing your category was mostly about insurance reasons and
> safety. That whole earning/deserving rational seems to only inflate
> someones pride. Anyways, that was a little ridiculous. From the
> perspective of being in the race there's a bit that could be said, but we
> should just leave it at be considerate of those beside, and behind you.
> Ride safely. If you can't overtake a ride, or fit through the gap don't
> hang out halfway.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Quenton `

2009-06-24

This seems like a perfect opportunity to mention the two guys who didn't attack until people had already started shouting neutral. then looked back and attacked the field.

I thought racing your category was mostly about insurance reasons and safety. That whole earning/deserving rational seems to only inflate someones pride. Anyways, that was a little ridiculous. From the perspective of being in the race there's a bit that could be said, but we should just leave it at be considerate of those beside, and behind you. Ride safely. If you can't overtake a ride, or fit through the gap don't hang out halfway.


Robert Anderson

2009-06-24

Actually, the worst offense would be to race in the wrong cat and cause a
crash. -Rob A

On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Tim Schauer wrote:

> I feel this should be firmly enforced and riders suspended if deemed
> appropriate. And by that I mean...if they KNEW they were racing in a
> category they shouldn't. I can understand a "new to racing" member making
> the mistake....but only once. The worst offense would be racing down a
> category...but it appears it is now mostly a racing above their category.
>
> So if you race in the wrong category...you get to race in "no category" for
> a while...
>
> -Tim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Candi Murray
> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:25 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] And just what category are you?
>
>
> You can only ride in the category that is listed on your license. Riding
> out of category is an automatic disqualification and could be suspendable.
> If you think that you need to be upgraded then go through the process and
> contact Kenji
>
>
> The following people rode out of category at tonight's PIR
>
> 2660 Bedford Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
> 1311 Ranson Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
> 1194 Stivers Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
> 2861 Cummngs Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
> 1323 Hemminger, David Ct 4 rode in the 1/2/3
> 2480 Davidson Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
> 2356 Otto Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
> 2477 Zack Cat 5 rode in the 3/4
>
> 2320 Boehlke Cat 5 rode in the 3/4
> 1945 Radakovich Cat 5 rode in the 3/4
>
> Candi
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
Rob Anderson
riznob@gmail.com


Bushnell, Spencer

2009-06-24

the categories are not just BS. they are there for safety as well. skill levels are WAY DIFFERENT. you may be able to sit in, but that doesnt mean you've earned the right to be there. upgrade accordingly. the PIR 1/2/3 race is sketchy enough as is w/out cat 4's thrown in. no one wants to get wrecked out at a training race, let alone by someone who hasnt earned the rights to be in it to begin with. if you want a fast pace, ride at the pointy end of the 3/4 race. dont by any means latch onto the back of an 80 person field to test the pace and "chat with friends".
spencer

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Candi Murray
Sent: Wed 6/24/2009 10:48 AM
To: 'jamie'; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] And just what category are you?

Technically you cannot ride in a field you are not registered for. So if you wanted to ride at the back of another field you should register for both.
Riders should not participate in the race( no lead outs etc and should not cross the finish line) after then have been dropped and gotten back in, or have had a flat.
Candi

________________________________

From: jamie [mailto:jmikami@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:52 AM
To: cmurray@obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] And just what category are you?

I was going to send this to the group/but opted to get your thoughts first. Back in the day when we only tracked those in the points it seems this was never an issue, but it seems to be now. Feel free to respond to the group or just me.

So what is the official word/penalty for riding at the back of another group if you get dropped/your race is finished/somehow you end up in the wrong group? I have often been in one group and either been dropped, or finished early (cat 3/4 on Tues) or for some reason left my starting group. At these times I have at times rode at the back of the group that catches me and talk with friends back there or just ride it in while not caring if I am scored in any race. Basically I assume the penalty for riding it in at the back of the wrong group is you are DNF for the day. However suspensions for such offenses seem a bit harsh to me, of course if officials are really against this behaviour that would be something that catches my attention and ensure I don't do it in the future. I have also heard mixed responses from officials and promoters at races who while admitting it is wrong, say it is not really a big issue, while others seem to think it is a bad idea. Basically as I understood it, ride at the very back and leave the racing to those in front. I think I even heard the question asked last night and is was half ignored in the don't ask don't tell way .. or maybe as it wasn't heard correctly. I was actually planning to ride a few laps last night with the 1/2/3s after my race to see if I should ride that group next week, but just figured I would do it anyways and get home.

So is there something wrong with riding at the back of the wrong group that warrants more than a DNF for the day? Am I the bad rule breaker that just can't conform to societies rules? Just curious what the thought is, along with the official rules so that I know what the penalty is for breaking the rules and ride accordingly.




----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Jones
To: obra@list.obra.org
Cc: thejakesnakes@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] And just what category are you?

This is the exact reason why I give very clear instructions on how to overtake and neutral at PIR on Monday nights. But even with clear instructions, people still do what they want, as was evidence on Monday night. I've raced on both Monday and Tuesday nights at PIR and I know that the official on Tuesday also discusses about how to neutralize.

When I say to stay to one side of the road and the other group proceed on the other side of the road, this is the reason why. When we race, we get caught up in racing and I can see why you could potentially lose track when two groups are so close and for some reason at the time of the overtake you could join the wrong group. Although I think you should know better, it does happen. When you race week after week, you usually can tell who does and doesn't belong in your group.

The point of keeping groups separated out at PIR is so that people do not jump from one group to another.

-Scott



On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:10 AM, Jacob Cummings wrote:

I have possible explanations for this. Because I noticed guys from the 3/4s on my wheel as soon as we passed them. I knew something was probably wrong but didn't say anything. Because I trusted they weren't being jackasses and breaking neutral.
So, dudes who hopped on, I WAS UPGRADED TO A 3 TODAY. And decided to race the 123s. Ohkay? Thx.
Also, below is the cat3 confirmation from Kenji:

Jacob-

Congrats on the upgrade!


Jacob Cummings wrote:

Hi Kenji,

Thanks for all your help so far this season. I really appreciate how responsive you have been.

Last I heard from you, I had 24 upgrade points toward cat3 and needed one non-pir race to qualify.

I believe I am now eligible with two tabor races added.

Thanks!

Bib #2861 Jacob Cummings




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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


________________________________

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Candi Murray

2009-06-24

Technically you cannot ride in a field you are not registered for. So if you
wanted to ride at the back of another field you should register for both.
Riders should not participate in the race( no lead outs etc and should not
cross the finish line) after then have been dropped and gotten back in, or
have had a flat.
Candi

_____

From: jamie [mailto:jmikami@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:52 AM
To: cmurray@obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] And just what category are you?

I was going to send this to the group/but opted to get your thoughts first.
Back in the day when we only tracked those in the points it seems this was
never an issue, but it seems to be now. Feel free to respond to the group
or just me.

So what is the official word/penalty for riding at the back of another group
if you get dropped/your race is finished/somehow you end up in the wrong
group? I have often been in one group and either been dropped, or finished
early (cat 3/4 on Tues) or for some reason left my starting group. At these
times I have at times rode at the back of the group that catches me and talk
with friends back there or just ride it in while not caring if I am scored
in any race. Basically I assume the penalty for riding it in at the back of
the wrong group is you are DNF for the day. However suspensions for such
offenses seem a bit harsh to me, of course if officials are really against
this behaviour that would be something that catches my attention and ensure
I don't do it in the future. I have also heard mixed responses from
officials and promoters at races who while admitting it is wrong, say it is
not really a big issue, while others seem to think it is a bad idea.
Basically as I understood it, ride at the very back and leave the racing to
those in front. I think I even heard the question asked last night and is
was half ignored in the don't ask don't tell way .. or maybe as it wasn't
heard correctly. I was actually planning to ride a few laps last night with
the 1/2/3s after my race to see if I should ride that group next week, but
just figured I would do it anyways and get home.

So is there something wrong with riding at the back of the wrong group that
warrants more than a DNF for the day? Am I the bad rule breaker that just
can't conform to societies rules? Just curious what the thought is, along
with the official rules so that I know what the penalty is for breaking the
rules and ride accordingly.




----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Jones
To: obra@list.obra.org
Cc: thejakesnakes@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] And just what category are you?

This is the exact reason why I give very clear instructions on how to
overtake and neutral at PIR on Monday nights. But even with clear
instructions, people still do what they want, as was evidence on Monday
night. I've raced on both Monday and Tuesday nights at PIR and I know that
the official on Tuesday also discusses about how to neutralize.

When I say to stay to one side of the road and the other group proceed on
the other side of the road, this is the reason why. When we race, we get
caught up in racing and I can see why you could potentially lose track when
two groups are so close and for some reason at the time of the overtake you
could join the wrong group. Although I think you should know better, it does
happen. When you race week after week, you usually can tell who does and
doesn't belong in your group.

The point of keeping groups separated out at PIR is so that people do not
jump from one group to another.

-Scott

On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:10 AM, Jacob Cummings
wrote:

I have possible explanations for this. Because I noticed guys from the 3/4s
on my wheel as soon as we passed them. I knew something was probably wrong
but didn't say anything. Because I trusted they weren't being jackasses and
breaking neutral.
So, dudes who hopped on, I WAS UPGRADED TO A 3 TODAY. And decided to race
the 123s. Ohkay? Thx.
Also, below is the cat3 confirmation from Kenji:

Jacob-

Congrats on the upgrade!

Jacob Cummings wrote:

Hi Kenji,

Thanks for all your help so far this season. I really appreciate how
responsive you have been.

Last I heard from you, I had 24 upgrade points toward cat3 and needed one
non-pir race to qualify.

I believe I am now eligible with two tabor races added.

Thanks!

Bib #2861 Jacob Cummings

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_____

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Scott Jones

2009-06-24

This is the exact reason why I give* *very clear instructions on how to
overtake and neutral at PIR on Monday nights. But even with clear
instructions, people still do what they want, as was evidence on Monday
night. I've raced on both Monday and Tuesday nights at PIR and I know that
the official on Tuesday also discusses about how to neutralize.

When I say to stay to one side of the road and the other group proceed on
the other side of the road, this is the reason why. When we race, we get
caught up in racing and I can see why you could potentially lose track when
two groups are so close and for some reason at the time of the overtake you
could join the wrong group. Although I think you should know better, it does
happen. When you race week after week, you usually can tell who does and
doesn't belong in your group.

The point of keeping groups separated out at PIR is so that people do not
jump from one group to another.

-Scott

On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:10 AM, Jacob Cummings wrote:

> I have possible explanations for this. Because I noticed guys from the 3/4s
> on my wheel as soon as we passed them. I knew something was probably wrong
> but didn't say anything. Because I trusted they weren't being jackasses and
> breaking neutral.
> So, dudes who hopped on, I WAS UPGRADED TO A 3 TODAY. And decided to race
> the 123s. Ohkay? Thx.
> Also, below is the cat3 confirmation from Kenji:
>
> Jacob-
>
> Congrats on the upgrade!
>
>
> Jacob Cummings wrote:
>
> Hi Kenji,
>
> Thanks for all your help so far this season. I really appreciate how
> responsive you have been.
>
> Last I heard from you, I had 24 upgrade points toward cat3 and needed one
> non-pir race to qualify.
>
> I believe I am now eligible with two tabor races added.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bib #2861 Jacob Cummings
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


matthew.brownfield@comcast.net

2009-06-24

I rode the first few laps with the 3/4s. Got a flat tire on the back stretch.  By the time I got back to my car and fixed it I had missed a couple laps.  So I was instructed that I could ride with the group but could not participate in any sprints or leadouts.  In order to get a reasonable workout I jumped into the 1/2/3s.  I'm a 3 so I was not in a race outside my category.  I rode at the back, and did not ride the last lap, so I did not have any impact on the outcome of the race.

Matt Brownfield, #381

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacob Cummings"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:10:53 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] And just what category are you?

I have possible explanations for this. Because I noticed guys from the 3/4s on my wheel as soon as we passed them. I knew something was probably wrong but didn't say anything. Because I trusted they weren't being jackasses and breaking neutral.
So, dudes who hopped on, I WAS UPGRADED TO A 3 TODAY. And decided to race the 123s.  Ohkay? Thx.
Also, below is the cat3 confirmation from Kenji:

Jacob-

Congrats on the upgrade!

Jacob Cummings wrote:

Hi Kenji,

Thanks for all your help so far this season. I really appreciate how responsive you have been.

Last I heard from you, I had 24 upgrade points toward cat3 and needed one non-pir race to qualify.

I believe I am now eligible with two tabor races added.

Thanks!

Bib #2861 Jacob Cummings

_______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Jacob Cummings

2009-06-24

I have possible explanations for this. Because I noticed guys from the
3/4s on my wheel as soon as we passed them. I knew something was
probably wrong but didn't say anything. Because I trusted they weren't
being jackasses and breaking neutral.
So, dudes who hopped on, I WAS UPGRADED TO A 3 TODAY. And decided to
race the 123s. Ohkay? Thx.
Also, below is the cat3 confirmation from Kenji:

Jacob-

Congrats on the upgrade!

Jacob Cummings wrote:
> Hi Kenji,
> Thanks for all your help so far this season. I really appreciate how
> responsive you have been.
> Last I heard from you, I had 24 upgrade points toward cat3 and
> needed one non-pir race to qualify.
> I believe I am now eligible with two tabor races added.
> Thanks!
> Bib #2861 Jacob Cummings


Justin Serna

2009-06-23

Is this true???
 
 
J. Serna

 

________________________________
From: Brian L
To: cmurray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:07:19 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] And just what category are you?

Note: This does not apply to MTB since it is mostly self selecting. However,
you will not be allowed to race in a lower category if it is deemed you are
sandbagging there.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Candi Murray
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:25 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] And just what category are you?

You can only ride in the category that is listed on your license.  Riding
out of category is an automatic disqualification and could be suspendable.
If you think that you need to be upgraded then go through the process and
contact Kenji

The following people rode out of category at tonight's PIR

2660 Bedford Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
1311 Ranson Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
1194 Stivers Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
2861 Cummngs Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
1323 Hemminger, David Ct 4 rode in the 1/2/3
2480 Davidson Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
2356 Otto Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
2477 Zack Cat 5 rode in the 3/4

2320 Boehlke Cat 5 rode in the 3/4
1945 Radakovich Cat 5 rode in the 3/4

Candi

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Brian L

2009-06-23

Note: This does not apply to MTB since it is mostly self selecting. However,
you will not be allowed to race in a lower category if it is deemed you are
sandbagging there.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Candi Murray
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:25 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] And just what category are you?

You can only ride in the category that is listed on your license. Riding
out of category is an automatic disqualification and could be suspendable.
If you think that you need to be upgraded then go through the process and
contact Kenji

The following people rode out of category at tonight's PIR

2660 Bedford Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
1311 Ranson Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
1194 Stivers Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
2861 Cummngs Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
1323 Hemminger, David Ct 4 rode in the 1/2/3
2480 Davidson Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
2356 Otto Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
2477 Zack Cat 5 rode in the 3/4

2320 Boehlke Cat 5 rode in the 3/4
1945 Radakovich Cat 5 rode in the 3/4

Candi

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Tim Schauer

2009-06-23

I feel this should be firmly enforced and riders suspended if deemed appropriate. And by that I mean...if they KNEW they were racing in a category they shouldn't. I can understand a "new to racing" member making the mistake....but only once. The worst offense would be racing down a category...but it appears it is now mostly a racing above their category.

So if you race in the wrong category...you get to race in "no category" for a while...

-Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Candi Murray
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:25 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] And just what category are you?

You can only ride in the category that is listed on your license. Riding
out of category is an automatic disqualification and could be suspendable.
If you think that you need to be upgraded then go through the process and
contact Kenji

The following people rode out of category at tonight's PIR

2660 Bedford Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
1311 Ranson Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
1194 Stivers Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
2861 Cummngs Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
1323 Hemminger, David Ct 4 rode in the 1/2/3
2480 Davidson Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
2356 Otto Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
2477 Zack Cat 5 rode in the 3/4

2320 Boehlke Cat 5 rode in the 3/4
1945 Radakovich Cat 5 rode in the 3/4

Candi

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Candi Murray

2009-06-23

You can only ride in the category that is listed on your license. Riding
out of category is an automatic disqualification and could be suspendable.
If you think that you need to be upgraded then go through the process and
contact Kenji

The following people rode out of category at tonight's PIR

2660 Bedford Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
1311 Ranson Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
1194 Stivers Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
2861 Cummngs Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
1323 Hemminger, David Ct 4 rode in the 1/2/3
2480 Davidson Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
2356 Otto Cat 4 rode in the 1/2/3
2477 Zack Cat 5 rode in the 3/4

2320 Boehlke Cat 5 rode in the 3/4
1945 Radakovich Cat 5 rode in the 3/4

Candi