I want to say sooooo much more, but I can't keep it clean, but here is one point
Downtown Crit has major sponsor $$$ not only the prize money but they get paid to put on that race by the sponsors, with that said I know the promoters still are not making that much
State Crit is a race put on with a promoters money...Comparing the downtown crit and the state crit champs is ridiculous!
Go bike your bikes
Take Care
Randy Dreiling
----- Original Message ----
From: Chad Sperry
To: T. Kenji Sugahara ; Randy Word ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 2:56:27 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] CRIT Championships
It always amazes me that it is a sin for a promoter to make any money from an event. I wore the shoes of a racer for 10+ years and it helped shape how I promote events. I hated late results, late starts, and poor courses so I have worked very hard to improve all of those things with the events I produced. Sure promoters make money on events but do you also realize that promoters also lose money on events. Imagine putting 500 + hours into an event and you ended up paying money out of your own pocket to make the race happen. It is a reality and this does happen trust me on that one. I will not speak for any other promoter but I can tell you of the races I promote I earn zero money from entry fees. Not a penny. Entry fees do not even come close to paying the bills. Every dollar I have received from the races I produce has come from sponsorship funds not rider registrtations. Of the sponsorship funds I receive a small portion and the majority of
the sponsorship funds go back to subsidizing the riders entries so they are not even paying fair market value for what they recieve! Last year Hood had 60% of its funding come from sponsors and only 40% from registration fees. Sponsorship dollars come from individuals who go out and spend their own time looking for ways to build and event. By the time a promoter pays for officials, permits, equipment, surcharges, insurance charges, food for staff, medical, fuel, porta potties, etc. unless they have major cash sponsorships, $20 may cover costs if the field size is big enough, the costs even without a cash prize list. Throw on top of that some locations like the city of Portland that charge ridiculous fees for using their parks and roads (I am talking thousands people) and you could be looking at a huge loss. With marketing dollars dissappearing so quickly things are going to be very tough going forward. Hence why it is so critical that you patron an
events sponsors whether it be hotels, resturaunts, industry businesses, etc.
One other thing to keep in mind. As I mentioned before the promoter is responsible to pay all outstanding costs even if the money is gone. So imagine how many sleepless nights these poor souls have when they have setup an event and no one preregisters. So they are on the hook for thousands and they do not know how it will turn out financially until the day of the race. I personally will be expanding to events outside of cycling in the future. This fall I will be promoting a marathon and next year look to add a triathlon were average market registration fees are $50 to $75 per day and there is no prize mone or officials (not saying officials are overpaid or undeserving but they are still a line item). I am hoping by doing this I can subsidize my passion to promote cycling events.
Sincerely,
Chad
----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
To: "Randy Word" ;
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] CRIT Championships
Randy et al.
One thing we can discuss at the promoters meeting we will be having in
the fall is the idea of having a student rate. That would cover your
juniors and most of your U-23's.
To answer questions about how the championships were chosen- all
championships were open to competitive bidding this year. Bids were
selected on the basis of an application form that included questions
about venue, media outreach and general community support. The bids
were reviewed by a panel of three judges consisting of a chief judge,
board member and a promoter. We asked for bids over OBRA chat and a
general e-mail out to promoters.
In terms of costs- as you can understand as a promoter costs have also
gone up. Many municipalities are increasing fees - insurance has gone
up for us, and in some cases, some locales are asking for enhanced
insurance coverage which adds expenses. Even porta pottie expenses
have gone up.
I for one have no problem with promoters/teams making money. Many
promoters work hard to put on races- as you know, it's not an easy
job. Most do it as a labor of love. They deserve to be rewarded for
their efforts. Brad Ross, Chad Sperry, Mike Ripley, Candi Murray,
Mike Murray, Ernie Conway, Sal Collura, Jeff Lorenzen, Ed Garfield,
Clark Ritchie, Kevin Thompson, Cate Haas, Nathan Hobson, Richard
Haight, Rob Hughes, Henry Abel, David Hart, Jim Fischer, Jim Anderson,
Kay Bork, Erik Tonkin, Kris Schamp, Geri Bossen, Tom Hoffman, Chad
Cherefko, Jeff McNamee, Tita Soriano, Jesse Finch-Gnehm, Phil Sanders,
Terri Gooch, Scott Taylor, Chandra vanEijnsbergen, Charlie Warner,
Matt Plummer, Gina Miller, Joe Cipale, Jeff Mitchem, Matt D'Elia,
Brian Cimmiyotti, Galen Mittermann, Darell Provencher and many others
(apologies if I missed you)- should be thanked. Without them, we
wouldn't have races. For almost all promoters profit is not the
motive, but if they clear some, more power to them.
I think many folks wouldn't be putting on races, officiating,
volunteering or just being part of the racing scene if it wasn't a
passion.
k-
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Randy Word wrote:
> I think David makes a good point regarding entry fees. I've been racing in
> Oregon off & on since 1985, and I've also been a race promoter for some
> local events, including Mt. Tabor. The goal as promoter was to promote
> cycling and keep the race as inexpensive and safe as possible. We budgeted
> to at least break even, but making a profit was not the goal, the goal was
> to benefit the members of OBRA.
>
> The entry fees for Juniors are not a problem, but U23 is the number one
> issue. Many, although not all, Juniors have a parent or two to cover entry
> fees and travel, but what about the U23's? Many of them no longer have
> parent' footing their racing bill, yet the U23's are the ones with the most
> potential to go further in the sport. For many Master's a $25 entry fee is
> no big deal as they drive their newer car with their 5k bike on top to the
> race, but for the U23 who's living off Ramen Noodles as they go through
> college, can barely even scrounge up money to help with gas when hitching a
> ride with a teammate to the next race. They worked all summer to get a used
> bike off Craigslist, and they dream about racing as a Pro someday, but when
> the entry fees are $25 every weekend they soon can't even buy new tires for
> their bike.
>
> It's no wonder that many of the Cat 1, 2 races are full of Masters, and
> sometimes they literally only have one or two U23's. Nothing against
> Master's (I'm a Master myself), but what are we doing to promote the sport
> to the "kids" with the most future/potential in the sport?
>
> This is not an OBRA problem, it's an issue with promoters. OBRA is doing a
> great job, and proof of that is their $20 annual license that actually comes
> with many benefits - compare that to the USCF's $60 license and no real
> benefits. OBRA is great, so I want to make clear I have no complaints
> there. The complaint is with some (definitely not all) promoters. Some
> examples: the Banana Belt series was very expensive, and the prize list was
> mostly just for the series, not each individual race; the district TT
> championship was $21 for a Time Trial, and zero prize money. On the other
> hand, a positive example is BBC's Jack Frost TT. They let you know up front
> there's zippo prizes, but the entry fee is very reasonable. Another good
> example is the Larch Mt. Hillclimb. The entry fee was $15 and you came home
> with a really cool medal and a water bottle, no matter what place you got.
>
> I appreciate the work involved with putting on a race - been there, done
> that. I just think it would be nice to keep the focus on benefiting the
> members of OBRA and cycling itself.
>
> Randy
>
>
> At 11:59 PM 8/7/2009, david klipper wrote:
>
> Since you are charging $20 pre and $25 day of registration, and you are
> giving away no monetary prices except for ONE cash prime per race? I assume
> this is like a $500 prime?? Why don't you take all of your profit and donate
> to charity. I am sure the OBRA membership can give you a list of one's they
> feel are worthy. You can give it to Quinn to help pay for some of his
> medical bills. there are numerous options available.
>
> Putting on a bicycle race should be to promote the sport and not pad your
> pocket. Being that the race is a "OBRA Championship", the possibility of an
> extremely large rider turnout is very high. This equates to a very large
> profit on your behalf as i have heard what your costs are and they are very
> low. I also understand that you are not paying a medic to be on site for
> the race. Dude, who is going to take care of the people after a crash.
> Calling the local fire department or EMT because they are feel is not cool.
> They aren't going to do anything. Don't be cheap and pay someone the $75
> like all of us do when we put on a race (and yes i put on a race and give
> away tons of prizes, primes and stuff--so you can't pull that excuse on
> me). Plus the medics are usually college kids and they can use the money.
>
> For those of you whom couldn't make it, brad ross and crew put on an
> amazing race in portland tonight that i am sure was not cheap with the
> lights, barriers, street closure, etc... And guess what, his entry was only
> $25 and he gave away $5K in cash.
>
> I am calling out to all the OBRA members to take a stand against people that
> are taking advantage of our desire to races our bicycles. Especially, with
> the economy the way it is. Another question for you? Do you even race
> your bike?
>
> David
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