Luciano bailey
where are these clips I want to see
From: bikexcr@hotmail.com
To: drjackbo@yahoo.com; obra@list.obra.org; atedgerton@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 23:50:03 -0700
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] CAT 3 Portland Twilight Follow Up and Concern
Oh ya
Did you hear?! Michael Jackson passed away! No freaking way!
From: bikexcr@hotmail.com
To: drjackbo@yahoo.com; obra@list.obra.org; atedgerton@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 23:35:59 -0700
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] CAT 3 Portland Twilight Follow Up and Concern
Youre all wrong anyways. After careful analysis and watching the clip 100 times....
The rider in red, along with the guy on his wheel behind him, on the far right of the clip on the outside of the curve, was already in a line way too wide before the ball got there. This rider had already over cooked the corner and was heading into the curb with or without the ball. But like i said previously, high speed racing with spectators at close proximity in an uncontrolled environment, shit happens and its part of the sport. Im not justifying the guy throwing the ball, it was VERY WRONG of him to do so, yet still, refer to clips I shared previously as evidence that spectators get in the way at times and its unfortunate that its at the racers expense.
Now thats it. Subject over. You cant beat a dead horse anymore nor rewind time.
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 21:11:00 -0700
From: drjackbo@yahoo.com
To: obra@list.obra.org; atedgerton@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] CAT 3 Portland Twilight Follow Up and Concern
At the risk of resurrecting a dead topic:
I was a spectator at corner #1 when the Cat 3 crash associated with the tennis ball happened. I am sure of the following:
- The ball was on the course at corner 1 before the riders came through. Even before the crash happened, spectators were yelling "who threw that ball"? It was bouncing about head high for the riders. I saw it bouncing among the riders and could only hope that it would bounce off the course before anything happened.
- The ball was thrown by a guy (at least mid-20s) from a balcony about 25 yds away from the course. Several people in the park and on the inside of the turn saw him throw it and identified him. It was not a bouncing ball that got away from some kids. It is virtually certain that the guy threw it with the intention of getting it onto the course.
- The race official at the corner said the cops were called. I never saw them show up -- which doesn't mean they didn't. So I don't know if there was any follow-up.
My opinion: the guy deserved a charge of reckless endangerment. It was the height of irresponsible behavior.
This is just opinion:
- I have raced only a little (PIR, Banana Belt), and never done a criterium. But it seems to me that at the very least one would flinch a little if a tennis ball was suddenly headed towards your face. How many of us can hold our heads still when a ball is unexpectedly coming at us at 30mph? And it seems to me that only a little flinch could cause a wheel touch and a consequent chain reaction. I think it's unfair to blame the racers for a crash caused by something so totally unexpected on a course as a bouncing tennis ball.
Certainly stuff happens in a race. But guys crash in the Tour all the time for a variety of reasons. Are those guys unprepared for race conditions?
IMHO, riders can't possibly train to hold their lines and stay upright under any conditions whatsoever. Should they go out and train while their friends throw tennis balls at them?
IMHO again, the tennis ball caused the crash. The best I can think of the guy who threw it is that he just had no idea what could happen. My problem is, I have no idea how to prevent such idiocy by spectators in the future.
Jack
.................................
Jack Bennett
bennett.jack@yahoo.com
.................................
--- On Sat, 8/8/09, Adam Edgerton wrote:
From: Adam Edgerton
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] CAT 3 Portland Twilight Follow Up and Concern
To: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 5:26 PM
Jeremy, I'd have to disagree with that. I was sitting on the left
side 3rd or 4th wheel from the front going into corner 1, and the
tennis ball came onto the middle of the course right in front of the
lead rider. The race split in two directions as some riders went to
the right side of the ball, while I went to the left and was able to
avoid the curb fairly easily by scrubbing some speed. The front
riders were nearly to corner two when we heard the crash happen behind
us. And to earlier comments that a tennis ball shouldn't be enough to
cause a crash - that's a guaranteed crash if someone runs it over, but
the problem for the front riders was that it was at head-level in
midair as we passed it, and I don't think any of us were prepared to
take a tennis ball to the face at 30MPH.
Adam
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Jeremy wrote:
> Just to clarify, the crash was not initially sparked by a tennis ball. That
> was more of an after-effect. The crash happened in the first place because
> the front group took the corner too wide and two unlucky guys on the outside
> edge had nowhere to go but the curb. From there, it turned into a mess as
> the rest of the group came around. Even standing in close proximity to the
> first two fallen racers, I have no idea where the tennis ball came from but
> I can say for sure it went onto the course after a couple bikes were already
> down.
> Jeremy
>
> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 5:13 PM, scott hill wrote:
>>
>> did you have the boy get his parents, so they could help pay for the
>> thousands of dollars in bike parts and clothing that he accidentally
>> destroyed.
>>
>> --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Candi Murray wrote:
>>
>> From: Candi Murray
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] CAT 3 Portland Twilight Follow Up and Concern
>> To: mike.murray@obra.org, "'Obra'"
>> Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 7:00 PM
>>
>> The boy that the ball belonged to came down to the judges stand. I was not
>> there but I heard that he was very apolgetic. He had bounced the ball on the
>> deck and did not intentionally throw it.
>> Candi
>> ________________________________
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Murray
>> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 4:58 PM
>> To: 'Obra'
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] CAT 3 Portland Twilight Follow Up and Concern
>>
>> I have to disagree. You can hit water bottles no problem but a solidly
>> hit tennis ball is not so compressible and is could certainly knock you
>> down. That is not to say that the crash and more damage was done by
>> swerving around the ball. The best bet would be to ignore it. The chance
>> that you would hit it solid is pretty small.
>>
>>
>>
>> The bigger issue is where did it come from. I hear that it was tossed out
>> of a window into the course. That is probably a crime.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Murray
>>
>>
>>
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of john
>> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 4:28 PM
>> To: Obra
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] CAT 3 Portland Twilight Follow Up and Concern
>>
>>
>>
>> A stray tennis ball caused the crash ?! This is Ridiculous in a CAT 3
>> pack. Aren't any of you getting taught how to ride ? Ignore the tennis
>> ball and hit it. YOU NEVER EVER swerve. A waterbottle, a tennis ball, etc,
>> will NOT cause a crash if no one swerves. A big pot hole appears and your
>> riding close quarters, YOU hit it. never try to save wheels at expense of
>> a crash. NEVER. This is what my club taught me 20 some years ago. Hold
>> your line, be smooth.
>>
>>
>>
>> In my opinion, that amount of crashing in a Cat 3 pack is unnacceptable.
>> Go practice cornering, go bounce of each other in a grass field for a
>> while, or simply learn to relax a bit so you don't go down when someone
>> touches you... but beyond that no should be touching you, this is NOT a
>> contact sport. Crits are not suppose to be crash fest's, if you think they
>> are then you have the wrong mindset. We don't have body armor like hockey
>> players where you can get hit, do a couple flips, land on ice, and come up
>> laughing.
>>
>>
>>
>> It really bothered me to see that huge pileup. As a spectator i don't
>> want to see it. And as racers, who wants to race ? or let their kids race,
>> if going to end up in an emergency room??
>>
>>
>>
>> And by the way if you are sliding out in corner, you aren't cornering
>> properly. Get some weight on your front wheel by coming out of the saddle
>> slightly.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Rick C Johnson
>> wrote:
>>
>> What is that saying about great minds thinking alike?
>> Oh yea, that's pretty much the saying!
>>
>> Rick Johnson
>>
>> Bend, Oregon
>>
>>
>>
>> "Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it" - George
>> Santayana
>>
>>
>>
>> T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:
>>
>> ROTFLMAO.
>>
>>
>>
>> Guess what I just bought from Amazon.com and arrived on my doorstep
>> yesterday.
>>
>>
>>
>> Red Flags
>>
>> Yellow Flags
>>
>> Green Flags
>>
>> Checkered Flags.
>>
>>
>>
>> As Mike notes- situations such as this demonstrate why positioning in
>>
>> a crit is so important.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 8:20 AM, Rick C Johnson
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> To remove the ambiguity from these types of situations perhaps OBRA should
>>
>> consider adopting a motorsports style flagging system for criterium.
>>
>>
>>
>> It sounds to me like the recent conditions would best be described as a
>>
>> "waving yellow" at the site of the incident and a full course "standing
>>
>> yellow".
>>
>>
>>
>> Waving Yellow = extreme caution, immediate danger
>>
>> Standing Yellow = Neutral, proceed at reduced speed
>>
>>
>>
>> Rick Johnson
>>
>> Bend, Oregon
>>
>>
>>
>> "Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it" - George
>>
>> Santayana
>>
>>
>>
>> Jonathan Vinson wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
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>>
>>
>> --
>> jms, pe pdx, or
>> http://bikeeng.blogspot.com/
>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>
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>>
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>
>
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