Rick Johnson

Funny stuff David!

I find this whole discussion a bit odd. I mean haven't any of you heard
of this really fun winter sport called skiing? It's where you go out in
clothing that is made for winter - and is therefore warm. There is no
waterproofing to worry about 'cause the water is all frozen!
More people should try it, then maybe they'll appreciate racing their
bikes when it's actually warm and dry!
:-D

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

"We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
-- Benjamin Franklin

david baker wrote:
> I keep my toes warm buy putting my WHOLE BODY in a climate controlled
> structure with walls, roof, and windows to look out at miserable cold
> people as I spin away on a stationary bike.
> A good alternative is to move your WHOLE BODY south to say California,
> Arizona, or Florida.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Otcenas"
>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Winter shoes---narrowing the information
>
>
>>>> I've tried using chemical warmers in several different locations:
>> inside the shoe under the toes, inside the shoe on top of the toes, and
>> on top of the shoe. Best I've done is about 1/2 hour of slight warmth,
>> followed by nothing.
>>
>> Despite my access to every piece of apparel under the sun, I suffer from
>> a circulation problem that means I have serious trouble keeping my feet
>> warm in cold, wet weather without the use of an "external heat source".
>> The chemical toe warmers are a lifesaver for me. The key to these
>> working is that they require oxygen. If you are wearing a
>> footwear/sock/bootie combination that is too snug, the warmers get no
>> oxygen and turn cold.
>>
>> My solution?
>> My winter shoes are a size larger than my summer shoes so there's air
>> pockets in the shoes. I wear wool socks. I put the warmer ON TOP of my
>> feet (where the veins run and can be warmed by the chemical toe warmer &
>> where the warmers will have access to more oxygen, rather than being
>> suffocated by my feet). Then I layer booties over the shoes to keep out
>> as much moisture as I can, for as long as possible. This system works
>> very well for me. I get 3-5 hours of warmth out of the chemical warmers
>> this way.
>>
>> Wishing you warm winter feet,
>>
>> Susan
>>
>>
>> ***********************************************
>> Susan Otcenas
>> Team Estrogen, Inc.
>> www.TeamEstrogen.com
>> 877-310-4592
>> ***********************************************
>> Follow our TE fan page on Facebook!
>> Look for "teamestrogen.com"
>> ***********************************************
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

david baker

I keep my toes warm buy putting my WHOLE BODY in a climate controlled
structure with walls, roof, and windows to look out at miserable cold people
as I spin away on a stationary bike.
A good alternative is to move your WHOLE BODY south to say California,
Arizona, or Florida.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan Otcenas"
To:
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Winter shoes---narrowing the information

>>>I've tried using chemical warmers in several different locations:
> inside the shoe under the toes, inside the shoe on top of the toes, and
> on top of the shoe. Best I've done is about 1/2 hour of slight warmth,
> followed by nothing.
>
> Despite my access to every piece of apparel under the sun, I suffer from
> a circulation problem that means I have serious trouble keeping my feet
> warm in cold, wet weather without the use of an "external heat source".
> The chemical toe warmers are a lifesaver for me. The key to these
> working is that they require oxygen. If you are wearing a
> footwear/sock/bootie combination that is too snug, the warmers get no
> oxygen and turn cold.
>
> My solution?
> My winter shoes are a size larger than my summer shoes so there's air
> pockets in the shoes. I wear wool socks. I put the warmer ON TOP of my
> feet (where the veins run and can be warmed by the chemical toe warmer &
> where the warmers will have access to more oxygen, rather than being
> suffocated by my feet). Then I layer booties over the shoes to keep out
> as much moisture as I can, for as long as possible. This system works
> very well for me. I get 3-5 hours of warmth out of the chemical warmers
> this way.
>
> Wishing you warm winter feet,
>
> Susan
>
>
> ***********************************************
> Susan Otcenas
> Team Estrogen, Inc.
> www.TeamEstrogen.com
> 877-310-4592
> ***********************************************
> Follow our TE fan page on Facebook!
> Look for "teamestrogen.com"
> ***********************************************
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Susan Otcenas

>>I've tried using chemical warmers in several different locations:
inside the shoe under the toes, inside the shoe on top of the toes, and
on top of the shoe. Best I've done is about 1/2 hour of slight warmth,
followed by nothing.

Despite my access to every piece of apparel under the sun, I suffer from
a circulation problem that means I have serious trouble keeping my feet
warm in cold, wet weather without the use of an "external heat source".
The chemical toe warmers are a lifesaver for me. The key to these
working is that they require oxygen. If you are wearing a
footwear/sock/bootie combination that is too snug, the warmers get no
oxygen and turn cold.

My solution?
My winter shoes are a size larger than my summer shoes so there's air
pockets in the shoes. I wear wool socks. I put the warmer ON TOP of my
feet (where the veins run and can be warmed by the chemical toe warmer &
where the warmers will have access to more oxygen, rather than being
suffocated by my feet). Then I layer booties over the shoes to keep out
as much moisture as I can, for as long as possible. This system works
very well for me. I get 3-5 hours of warmth out of the chemical warmers
this way.

Wishing you warm winter feet,

Susan

***********************************************
Susan Otcenas
Team Estrogen, Inc.
www.TeamEstrogen.com
877-310-4592
***********************************************
Follow our TE fan page on Facebook!
Look for "teamestrogen.com"
***********************************************

Gary Watts

I appreciate all the replies...received quite a few of them.

For the record:
-I have a rain bike with full fenders and full length flaps that nearly reach the ground.
-Tried sealskinz and while dry, my feet were still very cold.
-I own perhaps 10 different types of booties. There is no bootie made that will keep your feet dry and warm in and of themselves (my experience).
-Warm requires that the insulation/heat retention method be next to the source, ie your feet. There can't be more heat retained that what's produced.
-I've tried using chemical warmers in several different locations: inside the shoe under the toes, inside the shoe on top of the toes, and on top of the shoe. Best I've done is about 1/2 hour of slight warmth, followed by nothing.

I did receive 2 reports of success with Lake and Shimano winter shoes. The Shimano at least has a waterproof inner lining which is the only one of the list that I've seen with this.

The existing method of wool sock/road shoe/produce bag/bootie will keep your feet dry for 4 hours. It won't keep them warm. That's really the issue.

Perhaps a hybrid solution of winter shoe and the beloved produce bag with bootie.

The only other option would seem to be heated insoles. The Sidi's are nice, relative thin/small but expensive. The other option I looked into is Hotronics which are used for ski boots. The batterypack and wires is a downside. They run around $200.

Thanks again for all the insights.

Gary