Nationals field size

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

2009-10-13

I know and accept rules of the "official racing organizations" but do have my own opinion.
This concept of pulling riders when getting lapped in a cyclocross race is where I do not agree with any of the organizations including OBRA. The one exception is if it is being done so the riders will not continue to straggle in so long as to throw the following races off schedule. I do not think there is any rider that has more right to be on the course than another based on leading or last. I am sure I am in the minority on this, but I believe the people racing for first through twentieth need to deal with the other riders on the course, including the riders being lapped. That is part of racing. Racers at the front can deal with this traffic and if some advantage or disadvantage takes place because of other riders.... that is racing. If riders other than the top forty or fifty riders are not considered worthy of doing the race, then they should get to race for half-price, or get their own race. Top riders who do not cry about having to deal with traffic or the like in a race get my vote as being humans who understand that life is not "just about him/her. That is one reason why I have little tolerance for any rider I hear yelling angrily at another rider to get out of the way or such when we are out there racing. Racing can be a very positive experience as long as we choose to make it so. Racing in traffic is part of what make cyclocross fun.
If the rules say we get pulled and I enter the race, then I do so knowing I may get pulled. I would just love to see this minimized so all racers get to test themselves as much as possible.
my two cents
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Russell @ Upper Echelon Fitness
To: Joel Morrissette
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Nationals field size

Joel - The answer is yes. The Masters field will have Cat 1 riders in it (but none who are classified as UCI Elite per the rules) who will lap high into the fields. But how often do you get to go compete at the national championships? Go for it anyway. It'll be fun while it lasts.

Riders are pulled as they get lapped or before they get lapped. Sometimes a rider on the cusp or getting lapped will get pulled. The reason is to keep the course clear for the leaders, especially at the end of the race near the finish. Of course it also means less riders to score at the finish, but not necessarily the reason for pulling riders.

Russell Cree, DPT
Upper Echelon Fitness, LLC
Coaching I Bike Fitting I Phys Testing I Physical Therapy
www.upperechelonfitness.com
Phone: 503.501.8121
Fax: 503.345.0999

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Joel Morrissette wrote:

Given that all 4 categories are staged/started together in the Masters races, should I assume a significant portion of the field is going to get pulled? It seems highly likely that the cat1 and cat2 riders in any masters field will lap the 3s and 4s. As a 3, am I shelling out $100+ for a 20 minute race?

OBRA, I love you more.
-Joel

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:08 PM, david baker wrote:

Usually they pull riders who are getting lapped. I think to avoid confusion
in lap counting and to keep the contenders from having to pass so many
riders.
At these Nationals field sizes are already approaching 200 riders so there
could be significant amounts of pulled riders. Beware...
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Y. Gibson"

To:

Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:00 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Nationals field size

David Rosen wrote:

I am sure they will be pulling riders. They do it every year at the USGP as
well as the Star Crossed/ Rad Racing weekends. I was pulled 3 years ago from
the USGP and I was on the lead lap! Go figure.

I've never seen/done/or know about the Nationals. What are the reasons
they "pull" a rider? They don't like your bike color? :-) In all
seriousness - why do they pull riders?

--Shane

--
Wicked Race Director
Wicked Adventure Racing, LLC
http://www.WickedAR.com/
shane@WickedAR.com
503.679.8849

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature,
nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding
danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life
is either a daring adventure or nothing." ** Helen Keller **
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--
__o "It never gets easier,
_ \<_ you just go faster."
(_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond

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Russell @ Upper Echelon Fitness

2009-10-13

Joel - The answer is yes. The Masters field will have Cat 1 riders in it
(but none who are classified as UCI Elite per the rules) who will lap high
into the fields. But how often do you get to go compete at the national
championships? Go for it anyway. It'll be fun while it lasts.

Riders are pulled as they get lapped or before they get lapped. Sometimes a
rider on the cusp or getting lapped will get pulled. The reason is to keep
the course clear for the leaders, especially at the end of the race near the
finish. Of course it also means less riders to score at the finish, but not
necessarily the reason for pulling riders.

Russell Cree, DPT
Upper Echelon Fitness, LLC
Coaching I Bike Fitting I Phys Testing I Physical Therapy
www.upperechelonfitness.com
Phone: 503.501.8121
Fax: 503.345.0999

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Joel Morrissette wrote:

> Given that all 4 categories are staged/started together in the Masters
> races, should I assume a significant portion of the field is going to get
> pulled? It seems highly likely that the cat1 and cat2 riders in any masters
> field will lap the 3s and 4s. As a 3, am I shelling out $100+ for a 20
> minute race?
> OBRA, I love you more.
> -Joel
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:08 PM, david baker wrote:
>
>> Usually they pull riders who are getting lapped. I think to avoid
>> confusion
>> in lap counting and to keep the contenders from having to pass so many
>> riders.
>> At these Nationals field sizes are already approaching 200 riders so there
>> could be significant amounts of pulled riders. Beware...
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Y. Gibson"
>> To:
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:00 PM
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Nationals field size
>>
>>
>> David Rosen wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am sure they will be pulling riders. They do it every year at the USGP
>>>> as
>>>> well as the Star Crossed/ Rad Racing weekends. I was pulled 3 years ago
>>>> from
>>>> the USGP and I was on the lead lap! Go figure.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've never seen/done/or know about the Nationals. What are the reasons
>>> they "pull" a rider? They don't like your bike color? :-) In all
>>> seriousness - why do they pull riders?
>>>
>>> --Shane
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Wicked Race Director
>>> Wicked Adventure Racing, LLC
>>> http://www.WickedAR.com/
>>> shane@WickedAR.com
>>> 503.679.8849
>>>
>>> "Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature,
>>> nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding
>>> danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life
>>> is either a daring adventure or nothing." ** Helen Keller **
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> __o "It never gets easier,
> _ \<_ you just go faster."
> (_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


david baker

2009-10-13

Have another look at the schedule, They seem to have different start times for the crowded fields
http://www.usacycling.org/events/2009/cxnationals/2009CXNatsSchedule.pdf
----- Original Message -----
From: Joel Morrissette
To: david baker
Cc: Shane Y. Gibson ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Nationals field size

Given that all 4 categories are staged/started together in the Masters races, should I assume a significant portion of the field is going to get pulled? It seems highly likely that the cat1 and cat2 riders in any masters field will lap the 3s and 4s. As a 3, am I shelling out $100+ for a 20 minute race?

OBRA, I love you more.
-Joel

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:08 PM, david baker wrote:

Usually they pull riders who are getting lapped. I think to avoid confusion
in lap counting and to keep the contenders from having to pass so many
riders.
At these Nationals field sizes are already approaching 200 riders so there
could be significant amounts of pulled riders. Beware...
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Y. Gibson"

To:

Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:00 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Nationals field size

David Rosen wrote:

I am sure they will be pulling riders. They do it every year at the USGP as
well as the Star Crossed/ Rad Racing weekends. I was pulled 3 years ago from
the USGP and I was on the lead lap! Go figure.

I've never seen/done/or know about the Nationals. What are the reasons
they "pull" a rider? They don't like your bike color? :-) In all
seriousness - why do they pull riders?

--Shane

--
Wicked Race Director
Wicked Adventure Racing, LLC
http://www.WickedAR.com/
shane@WickedAR.com
503.679.8849

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature,
nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding
danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life
is either a daring adventure or nothing." ** Helen Keller **
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
__o "It never gets easier,
_ \<_ you just go faster."
(_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond


Joel Morrissette

2009-10-13

Since I've gotten one flame already - my OBRA comment was intended as a
compliment to our fine organization, albeit poorly worded...

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Joel Morrissette wrote:

> Fair enough - my main intent was to understand how the event works before
> I'm committed. My question was probably better directed toward USAC
> directly - I'll follow up there and let the list know the response.
> -Joel
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:16 PM, tackyglueit wrote:
>
>> seems a bit ironic how we insist on hosting these national events yet we
>> complain to no end about how they are produced.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Dan Davis wrote:
>>
>>> hey any body know what the field size for the Nationals? 50-54?
>>> thanks
>>> Dan...
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> __o "It never gets easier,
> _ \<_ you just go faster."
> (_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond
>

--
__o "It never gets easier,
_ \<_ you just go faster."
(_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond


Joel Morrissette

2009-10-13

Fair enough - my main intent was to understand how the event works before
I'm committed. My question was probably better directed toward USAC
directly - I'll follow up there and let the list know the response.
-Joel

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:16 PM, tackyglueit wrote:

> seems a bit ironic how we insist on hosting these national events yet we
> complain to no end about how they are produced.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Dan Davis wrote:
>
>> hey any body know what the field size for the Nationals? 50-54?
>> thanks
>> Dan...
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
__o "It never gets easier,
_ \<_ you just go faster."
(_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond


tackyglueit

2009-10-13

seems a bit ironic how we insist on hosting these national events yet we
complain to no end about how they are produced.

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Dan Davis wrote:

> hey any body know what the field size for the Nationals? 50-54?
> thanks
> Dan...
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Randy - WORD Sports

2009-10-13

They have a certain criteria of what a cyclocross racer should look like,
if you don't fit that criteria they pull you. It's important for the image
of the sport, so that all media coverage or brochures has the "correct" look.

At 02:00 PM 10/13/2009, Shane Y. Gibson wrote:
>David Rosen wrote:
> > I am sure they will be pulling riders. They do it every year at the USGP as
> > well as the Star Crossed/ Rad Racing weekends. I was pulled 3 years ago
> from
> > the USGP and I was on the lead lap! Go figure.
>
>I've never seen/done/or know about the Nationals. What are the reasons
>they "pull" a rider? They don't like your bike color? :-) In all
>seriousness - why do they pull riders?
>
>--Shane
>
>
>--
>Wicked Race Director
>Wicked Adventure Racing, LLC
>http://www.WickedAR.com/
>shane@WickedAR.com
>503.679.8849
>
>"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature,
> nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding
> danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life
> is either a daring adventure or nothing." ** Helen Keller **
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Joel Morrissette

2009-10-13

Given that all 4 categories are staged/started together in the Masters
races, should I assume a significant portion of the field is going to get
pulled? It seems highly likely that the cat1 and cat2 riders in any masters
field will lap the 3s and 4s. As a 3, am I shelling out $100+ for a 20
minute race?
OBRA, I love you more.
-Joel

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:08 PM, david baker wrote:

> Usually they pull riders who are getting lapped. I think to avoid confusion
> in lap counting and to keep the contenders from having to pass so many
> riders.
> At these Nationals field sizes are already approaching 200 riders so there
> could be significant amounts of pulled riders. Beware...
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Y. Gibson"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Nationals field size
>
>
> David Rosen wrote:
>>
>>> I am sure they will be pulling riders. They do it every year at the USGP
>>> as
>>> well as the Star Crossed/ Rad Racing weekends. I was pulled 3 years ago
>>> from
>>> the USGP and I was on the lead lap! Go figure.
>>>
>>
>> I've never seen/done/or know about the Nationals. What are the reasons
>> they "pull" a rider? They don't like your bike color? :-) In all
>> seriousness - why do they pull riders?
>>
>> --Shane
>>
>>
>> --
>> Wicked Race Director
>> Wicked Adventure Racing, LLC
>> http://www.WickedAR.com/
>> shane@WickedAR.com
>> 503.679.8849
>>
>> "Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature,
>> nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding
>> danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life
>> is either a daring adventure or nothing." ** Helen Keller **
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
__o "It never gets easier,
_ \<_ you just go faster."
(_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond


david baker

2009-10-13

Usually they pull riders who are getting lapped. I think to avoid confusion
in lap counting and to keep the contenders from having to pass so many
riders.
At these Nationals field sizes are already approaching 200 riders so there
could be significant amounts of pulled riders. Beware...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shane Y. Gibson"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Nationals field size

> David Rosen wrote:
>> I am sure they will be pulling riders. They do it every year at the USGP
>> as
>> well as the Star Crossed/ Rad Racing weekends. I was pulled 3 years ago
>> from
>> the USGP and I was on the lead lap! Go figure.
>
> I've never seen/done/or know about the Nationals. What are the reasons
> they "pull" a rider? They don't like your bike color? :-) In all
> seriousness - why do they pull riders?
>
> --Shane
>
>
> --
> Wicked Race Director
> Wicked Adventure Racing, LLC
> http://www.WickedAR.com/
> shane@WickedAR.com
> 503.679.8849
>
> "Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature,
> nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding
> danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life
> is either a daring adventure or nothing." ** Helen Keller **
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Todd.Dye@CH2M.com

2009-10-13

Basically, so lapped riders don't interfere with the leaders and impact the outcome of the race. Sometimes people get overzealous with pulling riders as has already been noted.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Shane Y. Gibson
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:01 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Nationals field size

David Rosen wrote:
> I am sure they will be pulling riders. They do it every year at the
> USGP as well as the Star Crossed/ Rad Racing weekends. I was pulled 3
> years ago from the USGP and I was on the lead lap! Go figure.

I've never seen/done/or know about the Nationals. What are the reasons they "pull" a rider? They don't like your bike color? :-) In all seriousness - why do they pull riders?

--Shane

--
Wicked Race Director
Wicked Adventure Racing, LLC
http://www.WickedAR.com/
shane@WickedAR.com
503.679.8849

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life
is either a daring adventure or nothing." ** Helen Keller **
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Shane Y. Gibson

2009-10-13

David Rosen wrote:
> I am sure they will be pulling riders. They do it every year at the USGP as
> well as the Star Crossed/ Rad Racing weekends. I was pulled 3 years ago from
> the USGP and I was on the lead lap! Go figure.

I've never seen/done/or know about the Nationals. What are the reasons
they "pull" a rider? They don't like your bike color? :-) In all
seriousness - why do they pull riders?

--Shane

--
Wicked Race Director
Wicked Adventure Racing, LLC
http://www.WickedAR.com/
shane@WickedAR.com
503.679.8849

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature,
nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding
danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life
is either a daring adventure or nothing." ** Helen Keller **


David Rosen

2009-10-13

I am sure they will be pulling riders. They do it every year at the USGP as
well as the Star Crossed/ Rad Racing weekends. I was pulled 3 years ago from
the USGP and I was on the lead lap! Go figure.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of david baker
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 1:54 PM
To: Dan Davis; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Nationals field size

I guess they will maximize income by not having limits but it makes me
wonder if they will be pulling riders. It would kind of suck to have
invested so much money into a race and then get pulled 20 minutes in to the
race.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Davis"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:04 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Nationals field size

> hey any body know what the field size for the Nationals? 50-54?
> thanks
> Dan...
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


david baker

2009-10-13

I guess they will maximize income by not having limits but it makes me
wonder if they will be pulling riders. It would kind of suck to have
invested so much money into a race and then get pulled 20 minutes in to the
race.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Davis"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:04 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Nationals field size

> hey any body know what the field size for the Nationals? 50-54?
> thanks
> Dan...
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


david baker

2009-10-13

Apparently they are not expecting to limit field sizes for any of the races,
according to an article in today's Bend Bulletin.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Davis"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:04 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Nationals field size

> hey any body know what the field size for the Nationals? 50-54?
> thanks
> Dan...
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Dan Davis

2009-10-13

hey any body know what the field size for the Nationals? 50-54?
thanks
Dan...