Ron and Dorothy Strasser

I like tubeless! No matter what those knuckleheads at Sellwood say! Are
they bike mechanics or just a bunch of jerks?
:-) I love you my team s&m brothers! I think they are being very
professional as tubular tires have been proven in racing for years. New
products need time to show they are worthy. Tubeless is still pretty new,
but refinement is constant.

I have been running tubeless all season and not burped once (stans 355 rims
and bulldogs on one bike/ bulldogs and DT RR1.1 on my other bike) NO
PROBLEM. They are only hard to mount if you try to do it dry. I use soap
and water and yes I use a plastic tire lever as well. NO PROBLEM. I have
not had to add any air to three of the wheels and only have to add air to
one front one (as I need to remove some air to get it through the front
brake pads) when finished cleaning bike. I do not have to glue tubulars, I
do not have pinch flats. When I take one of these bikes out riding in
general, I take a spare tube as I would a regular clincher/tube set-up. I
was not sold at first as I tried different methods of mounting and types of
tires etc. Through trial and error I have come to the conclusion that when
done right, they work great. The tubeless tire bead seals very well with
the tubeless rim. If you want to remove tire from rim....The easiest way to
get the bead to break free from the rim is to leave a few pounds of pressure
in the tire and then break it free. For some reason this is easier than
letting all the air out and trying to break the bead. I have also had the
Scwalbe racing ralph and Maxxis Raze mounted tubeless without burping, but
do not trust them as much as the Hutchinson Tubeless tires... mainly because
the sidewalls are not as strong. If one can get away with using non
tubeless tires (a number of people use the Mud 2s as well), then they are
saving grams over a tubeless tire. It is the same in mountain bike tires...
tubeless tires weigh more than tube type. I have had pretty good luck with
running tube type tires tubeless on mountain bikes, but I have burped and
flatted. The hits the tires take when mountain biking (including racing)
are usually more brutal than in Cyclocross. I like tubeless. I will race
tubeless this Saturday and Sunday. Again... not one flat or burp yet this
year and only one last year (and that was with an Open Pro rim). Be brave
out there folks! The worst that could happen is you will flat. And I like
that question about what do you do if you flat with a tubular tire? The
great thing about tubeless and tube type tires is you do not have to be a
surgeon or adhesive specialist if you flat! Throw a tube in, pump it up and
ride home and have a beer.
ron
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Leritz"
To: "'Ryan Champion'" ;
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tubless Experience

>I am running ZTR 355 rims with Mud2's for my cross wheels (built by Mr.
> Chris Rycewicz, nice built up Chris!). In about 20 races I have burped the
> front once (rider error) and punctured a sidewall on the back once (at
> Wash
> County Fairgrounds). Those odds are actually worse than running my
> clinchers
> (2 flats in 50 races). However, clinchers I run at 45 lbs for fear of
> pinch
> flatting, which sucks. The two times I ran less that 40 lbs, I flatted.
>
> The XTR's are very light weight. I usually run between 33-38 psi. My only
> complaint is that the rim is slightly wider than my other wheel sets (all
> Mavic). You get into a bit of a break adjustment issue switching back and
> forth. I have to add air to mine before each use. They lose 50% of the
> pressure over a 48 hr period.
>
> I will also share Sellwood Cycle mechanics opinion's as well as I just
> discussed this with them last week. They think tubeless tend to be more of
> a
> hassle than a tubular setup, but tubulars are not without their hassles
> either, just a different set of hassles. It is unanimous among them that a
> tubular is more dependable that the tubeless.
>
> I have been a bit reluctant to ride them on the road for fear of a
> puncture
> and no way to fix it or get the tire to reseat with a hand pump. What do
> people do in that instance?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Ryan Champion
> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 9:43 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tubless Experience
>
> We are running Hutchison Fusion 2 Tubeless on our tandem and have been
> very
> pleased with them to date. Setup is Rolf Prima Vigor Tandems with Stan's
> conversion. We are a 290 lb team and run them at 120 psi. I didn't have
> any trouble getting them to seal at the rim. Some people have reported
> never needing to add air, but I still need to. Good Luck.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: shawn.small@RuckusTestTeam.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:32 AM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tubeless Experience
>
> What are people's experience with a tubeless set up for cross and road?
> Interested in rim and tire types that work well together and are problem
> free.
>
> Shawn Small
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Shane Y. Gibson

Dan H wrote:
> tire/wheel we are being asked to service/repair is tubeless or not. If
> it's tubeless, the labor quadruples.

Cranky Dan,

I run tubeless tires on my MTB. I'm curious why your rates/issues with
work on Tubeless tires is so much more. Is it because of spoke/rim
issues? You have a personal vendetta against Tubeless? I can't really
think of any reasons why tubeless would be so much more of a hassle, so
I'm hoping you can enlighten me/us?

Thanks!

Curious Shane

--
Wicked Race Director
Wicked Adventure Racing, LLC
http://www.WickedAR.com/

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature,
nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding
danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life
is either a daring adventure or nothing." ** Helen Keller **

Dan H

After a having a several customers bring us tubeless tires/wheels for
various reasons over the last year or so, we have learned to ask if the
tire/wheel we are being asked to service/repair is tubeless or not. If it's
tubeless, the labor quadruples. Extrapolate from that what you will. I
especially dislike customers bringing in unseated tires leaking sealant on
my carpet! Do these people spit on the floor at home?
-cranky dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Leritz"
To: "'Ryan Champion'" ;
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tubless Experience

>I am running ZTR 355 rims with Mud2's for my cross wheels (built by Mr.
> Chris Rycewicz, nice built up Chris!). In about 20 races I have burped the
> front once (rider error) and punctured a sidewall on the back once (at
> Wash
> County Fairgrounds). Those odds are actually worse than running my
> clinchers
> (2 flats in 50 races). However, clinchers I run at 45 lbs for fear of
> pinch
> flatting, which sucks. The two times I ran less that 40 lbs, I flatted.
>
> The XTR's are very light weight. I usually run between 33-38 psi. My only
> complaint is that the rim is slightly wider than my other wheel sets (all
> Mavic). You get into a bit of a break adjustment issue switching back and
> forth. I have to add air to mine before each use. They lose 50% of the
> pressure over a 48 hr period.
>
> I will also share Sellwood Cycle mechanics opinion's as well as I just
> discussed this with them last week. They think tubeless tend to be more of
> a
> hassle than a tubular setup, but tubulars are not without their hassles
> either, just a different set of hassles. It is unanimous among them that a
> tubular is more dependable that the tubeless.
>
> I have been a bit reluctant to ride them on the road for fear of a
> puncture
> and no way to fix it or get the tire to reseat with a hand pump. What do
> people do in that instance?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Ryan Champion
> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 9:43 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tubless Experience
>
> We are running Hutchison Fusion 2 Tubeless on our tandem and have been
> very
> pleased with them to date. Setup is Rolf Prima Vigor Tandems with Stan's
> conversion. We are a 290 lb team and run them at 120 psi. I didn't have
> any trouble getting them to seal at the rim. Some people have reported
> never needing to add air, but I still need to. Good Luck.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: shawn.small@RuckusTestTeam.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:32 AM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tubeless Experience
>
> What are people's experience with a tubeless set up for cross and road?
> Interested in rim and tire types that work well together and are problem
> free.
>
> Shawn Small
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

david baker

I carry a tube and a glue patch kit in case I get two flats or something
dumb happens to my tube. You can put a patch on the inside of the tire and
it will usually re-seat with a hand pump because it has been stretched onto
the rim for a while, and you should only un-seat one side of the tire
anyway.
This is all based on mt. bike tires, I have yet to flat on my road or cross
tubeless tires but hope for the same results.
If you put a tube in and can't get it to re-seat you can ride it but it
wobbles a lot, so you need to go slow. I think it is easier to re-seat with
a patch because the tube does not get in the way.
What do you do if you flat with a tubular tire?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Leritz"
To: "'Ryan Champion'" ;
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tubless Experience

>I am running ZTR 355 rims with Mud2's for my cross wheels (built by Mr.
> Chris Rycewicz, nice built up Chris!). In about 20 races I have burped the
> front once (rider error) and punctured a sidewall on the back once (at
> Wash
> County Fairgrounds). Those odds are actually worse than running my
> clinchers
> (2 flats in 50 races). However, clinchers I run at 45 lbs for fear of
> pinch
> flatting, which sucks. The two times I ran less that 40 lbs, I flatted.
>
> The XTR's are very light weight. I usually run between 33-38 psi. My only
> complaint is that the rim is slightly wider than my other wheel sets (all
> Mavic). You get into a bit of a break adjustment issue switching back and
> forth. I have to add air to mine before each use. They lose 50% of the
> pressure over a 48 hr period.
>
> I will also share Sellwood Cycle mechanics opinion's as well as I just
> discussed this with them last week. They think tubeless tend to be more of
> a
> hassle than a tubular setup, but tubulars are not without their hassles
> either, just a different set of hassles. It is unanimous among them that a
> tubular is more dependable that the tubeless.
>
> I have been a bit reluctant to ride them on the road for fear of a
> puncture
> and no way to fix it or get the tire to reseat with a hand pump. What do
> people do in that instance?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Ryan Champion
> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 9:43 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tubless Experience
>
> We are running Hutchison Fusion 2 Tubeless on our tandem and have been
> very
> pleased with them to date. Setup is Rolf Prima Vigor Tandems with Stan's
> conversion. We are a 290 lb team and run them at 120 psi. I didn't have
> any trouble getting them to seal at the rim. Some people have reported
> never needing to add air, but I still need to. Good Luck.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: shawn.small@RuckusTestTeam.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:32 AM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tubeless Experience
>
> What are people's experience with a tubeless set up for cross and road?
> Interested in rim and tire types that work well together and are problem
> free.
>
> Shawn Small
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Brian Engelen

Ryan,

ZTR with various tires and sealant.

I use a C02 cartridge to seat and reseat my tires (when compressed air is
not available). Although, I have only had 1 flat in 3 years of racing and
riding that would not seal with Stan's sealant. So carry a tube if you are
a long ways from home. And knock on wood when you are bragging about how
well you are doing with flats.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Erik Voldengen
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 10:33 AM
To: aleritz@bridgeh2o.com
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; Ryan Champion
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tubless Experience

I gave up on tubulars. I could not keep up with the maintenance, and
decided any advantage I was getting was negated.

I also run the ZTR tubeless setup. I've used a variety of tires, and
I can say it works very well. I will never go back.

If you flat a tubeless wheel on a training ride, just stick a tube in
there and ride home like a normal clincher. You might want to bring a
road-width tube because the bead can be pretty tight fitting.

-Erik

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:25 AM, Aaron Leritz wrote:
> I am running ZTR 355 rims with Mud2's for my cross wheels (built by Mr.
> Chris Rycewicz, nice built up Chris!). In about 20 races I have burped the
> front once (rider error) and punctured a sidewall on the back once (at
Wash
> County Fairgrounds). Those odds are actually worse than running my
clinchers
> (2 flats in 50 races). However, clinchers I run at 45 lbs for fear of
pinch
> flatting, which sucks. The two times I ran less that 40 lbs, I flatted.
>
> The XTR's are very light weight. I usually run between 33-38 psi. My only
> complaint is that the rim is slightly wider than my other wheel sets (all
> Mavic). You get into a bit of a break adjustment issue switching back and
> forth. I have to add air to mine before each use. They lose 50% of the
> pressure over a 48 hr period.
>
> I will also share Sellwood Cycle mechanics opinion's as well as I just
> discussed this with them last week. They think tubeless tend to be more of
a
> hassle than a tubular setup, but tubulars are not without their hassles
> either, just a different set of hassles. It is unanimous among them that a
> tubular is more dependable that the tubeless.
>
> I have been a bit reluctant to ride them on the road for fear of a
puncture
> and no way to fix it or get the tire to reseat with a hand pump. What do
> people do in that instance?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Ryan Champion
> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 9:43 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tubless Experience
>
> We are running Hutchison Fusion 2 Tubeless on our tandem and have been
very
> pleased with them to date.  Setup is Rolf Prima Vigor Tandems with Stan's
> conversion.  We are a 290 lb team and run them at 120 psi.  I didn't have
> any trouble getting them to seal at the rim.  Some people have reported
> never needing to add air, but I still need to.  Good Luck.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: shawn.small@RuckusTestTeam.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:32 AM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tubeless Experience
>
> What are people's experience with a tubeless set up for cross and road?
> Interested in rim and tire types that work well together and are problem
> free.
>
> Shawn Small
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Erik Voldengen

I gave up on tubulars. I could not keep up with the maintenance, and
decided any advantage I was getting was negated.

I also run the ZTR tubeless setup. I've used a variety of tires, and
I can say it works very well. I will never go back.

If you flat a tubeless wheel on a training ride, just stick a tube in
there and ride home like a normal clincher. You might want to bring a
road-width tube because the bead can be pretty tight fitting.

-Erik

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:25 AM, Aaron Leritz wrote:
> I am running ZTR 355 rims with Mud2's for my cross wheels (built by Mr.
> Chris Rycewicz, nice built up Chris!). In about 20 races I have burped the
> front once (rider error) and punctured a sidewall on the back once (at Wash
> County Fairgrounds). Those odds are actually worse than running my clinchers
> (2 flats in 50 races). However, clinchers I run at 45 lbs for fear of pinch
> flatting, which sucks. The two times I ran less that 40 lbs, I flatted.
>
> The XTR's are very light weight. I usually run between 33-38 psi. My only
> complaint is that the rim is slightly wider than my other wheel sets (all
> Mavic). You get into a bit of a break adjustment issue switching back and
> forth. I have to add air to mine before each use. They lose 50% of the
> pressure over a 48 hr period.
>
> I will also share Sellwood Cycle mechanics opinion's as well as I just
> discussed this with them last week. They think tubeless tend to be more of a
> hassle than a tubular setup, but tubulars are not without their hassles
> either, just a different set of hassles. It is unanimous among them that a
> tubular is more dependable that the tubeless.
>
> I have been a bit reluctant to ride them on the road for fear of a puncture
> and no way to fix it or get the tire to reseat with a hand pump. What do
> people do in that instance?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Ryan Champion
> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 9:43 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tubless Experience
>
> We are running Hutchison Fusion 2 Tubeless on our tandem and have been very
> pleased with them to date.  Setup is Rolf Prima Vigor Tandems with Stan's
> conversion.  We are a 290 lb team and run them at 120 psi.  I didn't have
> any trouble getting them to seal at the rim.  Some people have reported
> never needing to add air, but I still need to.  Good Luck.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: shawn.small@RuckusTestTeam.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:32 AM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tubeless Experience
>
> What are people's experience with a tubeless set up for cross and road?
> Interested in rim and tire types that work well together and are problem
> free.
>
> Shawn Small
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Aaron Leritz

I am running ZTR 355 rims with Mud2's for my cross wheels (built by Mr.
Chris Rycewicz, nice built up Chris!). In about 20 races I have burped the
front once (rider error) and punctured a sidewall on the back once (at Wash
County Fairgrounds). Those odds are actually worse than running my clinchers
(2 flats in 50 races). However, clinchers I run at 45 lbs for fear of pinch
flatting, which sucks. The two times I ran less that 40 lbs, I flatted.

The XTR's are very light weight. I usually run between 33-38 psi. My only
complaint is that the rim is slightly wider than my other wheel sets (all
Mavic). You get into a bit of a break adjustment issue switching back and
forth. I have to add air to mine before each use. They lose 50% of the
pressure over a 48 hr period.

I will also share Sellwood Cycle mechanics opinion's as well as I just
discussed this with them last week. They think tubeless tend to be more of a
hassle than a tubular setup, but tubulars are not without their hassles
either, just a different set of hassles. It is unanimous among them that a
tubular is more dependable that the tubeless.

I have been a bit reluctant to ride them on the road for fear of a puncture
and no way to fix it or get the tire to reseat with a hand pump. What do
people do in that instance?

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Ryan Champion
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 9:43 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tubless Experience

We are running Hutchison Fusion 2 Tubeless on our tandem and have been very
pleased with them to date. Setup is Rolf Prima Vigor Tandems with Stan's
conversion. We are a 290 lb team and run them at 120 psi. I didn't have
any trouble getting them to seal at the rim. Some people have reported
never needing to add air, but I still need to. Good Luck.

----- Original Message -----
From: shawn.small@RuckusTestTeam.com
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:32 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tubeless Experience

What are people's experience with a tubeless set up for cross and road?
Interested in rim and tire types that work well together and are problem
free.

Shawn Small
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Ryan Champion

We are running Hutchison Fusion 2 Tubeless on our tandem and have been very pleased with them to date. Setup is Rolf Prima Vigor Tandems with Stan's conversion. We are a 290 lb team and run them at 120 psi. I didn't have any trouble getting them to seal at the rim. Some people have reported never needing to add air, but I still need to. Good Luck.

----- Original Message -----
From: shawn.small@RuckusTestTeam.com
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:32 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tubeless Experience

What are people's experience with a tubeless set up for cross and road?
Interested in rim and tire types that work well together and are problem free.

Shawn Small