Beer and Racing

MIKE STOCKTON

2009-11-05

Well Said!

> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:34:51 -0800
> From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Beer and Racing
>
> Despite my recent tongue in cheek comments I believe Mike Murray is
> entirely correct to be concerned about the direction we are going in
> regards to alcohol and racing. I think there is a clear line between
> having beer available to spectators, or participants /after/
> competition, and having same for participants /during/ competition. The
> whole issue of alcohols place in our society and policy relating to
> minors is a separate topic.
>
> I like beer as much as the next person (ok, maybe a bit more). I've also
> been involved in racing of one kind or another for many years. From 1988
> until 2004 I was involved with professional motorsports almost
> exclusively. I was a on track official or team member for a wide variety
> of organizations all over the world. One team even had a beer sponsor
> that provided us multiple kegs for our hospitality for every race event.
> And you know the number of times I had alcohol of any kind during the
> time I was performing my duties? Absolutely zero times. Not while on the
> track, not while working in the pits, not even while working on the
> machines at the end of the day. Only after the job was done and all the
> tools were put away was it time for a beer. I think the reasons for that
> should be obvious. I think those same reasons are still valid for
> bicycle racing.
>
> That's my perspective. I'd ask everyone to consider what the event is
> for. Are we there to race bikes or to drink? If the answer is the latter
> then all we really have is a high priced drinking game.
>
> Rick
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend, Oregon
>
> "Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana
>
>
>
> Maximillian Kirchoff wrote:
>
> > Why not use the enforcement that would be necessary for a beer garden
> > sanctioned area and make that enforcement watching for the smaller
> > group of deviants. There are plenty of responsible adults who weren't
> > spraying people with beer, who would still like to enjoy a tall boy at
> > the races.
> >
> > Changing the general structure of how/when/where beer is consumed is
> > not going to stop the jerks from being jerks. That's like sitting in a
> > refrigerator when you have a fever. There should be steps taken to
> > penalize and expel anyone participating in unacceptable behavior.
> > That's what they do in sports and at bars. I'm not against conforming
> > to OLCC regulations and recommendations, however I believe the
> > structure of these events already falls into those. And while I can
> > understand a lack of staff to fulfill enforcement, remember that
> > creating a ban on beer or having sanctioned "beer garden" areas will
> > require the same, if not more, enforcement.
> >
> > And if this really does come down to a lack of person-power, there
> > seems to be a number of people who are chiming in now that would love
> > to watch out for fellow racers' and the juniors' safety.
> >
> >
> > ______________{ :)
> > Max Kirchoff
> > (503) 770-0629
> > max@maxisnow.com
> > http://www.maxisnow.com
> > http://portfolio.maxisnow.com
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 9:15 AM, lisa graham > > wrote:
> >
> > Mike is right,minors did get beer over the weekend,and minors were
> > also sprayed with beer for not being in costume! Seriously,
> > spraying a JR rider with beer is stupid,if they are not already
> > very involved in racing do you think they would want to race
> > again? Not likely.
> > Lisa Graham
> > zombie cyclists
> > * h *
> > * p ** i *
> > * u l*
> > *Me after a long ride ^^ l *
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > From: mike.murray@obra.org
> >
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 08:39:24 -0800
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Beer and Juniors
> >
> > This is incorrect. There have been episodes of minors trying to
> > get beer at races. I am sure some have been successful. The
> > events of last weekend showed that the presence of (supposedly)
> > responsible adults was not terribly protective against bad
> > behavior. Excessive enforcement may drive underage drinking
> > underground but having underage people obtain alcohol at races
> > puts the entire organization at risk. I am more concerned about
> > the possibility of legal problems than I am worried that some kids
> > might drink. In addition, the possibility of injury related to
> > alcohol use (drunk driving, riding, throwing of items at riders,
> > etc.) creates liability risk for the whole organization. Last
> > weekend was a sentinel event. We need to clean up the show.
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike Murray
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> >
> > [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > ] *On Behalf Of *Mike Kerkmann
> >
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2009 00:29 AM
> > *To:* obra@list.obra.org ; Randy Word
> > *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Beer and Juniors
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't know what all the OLCC paranoia is all about. There are
> > enough responsible adults around that would self police these kind
> > of events (let alone fairs and other crap). How many junior cycle
> > racers show up without a parent/guardian figure and would bee line
> > it the keg if given a chance? Slimmm I think.
> >
> > Sorry if I am way off, but I think the over protective nature of
> > our gov is just pushing underage drinking underground without the
> > support and education that those who are more mature might offer.
> > And no, I am not condoning it, I do think that the enforcement is
> > excessive and creates a different set of problems.
> >
> > -Mike
> >
> > --- On *Tue, 11/3/09, Randy Word / > >/* wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Randy Word >
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Beer and Juniors
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 9:59 PM
> >
> > Juniors and a ride through beer garden this Saturday? I'm sure
> > that along with beer cans thrown in the face, spitting, and
> > swearing will make every parent want to get their kids involved in
> > bike racing. Thank you to those who recognized the issue last
> > weekend and are putting a stop to it, but promoting and glorifying
> > alcohol along with bike races is part of the problem and it
> > certainly doesn't help with the goal of Junior development in the
> > sport. Beer parties are fine if that's your thing, but they
> > should be separate, not a glorified part of sanctioned races.
> > Randy
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
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Rick C Johnson

2009-11-04

Despite my recent tongue in cheek comments I believe Mike Murray is
entirely correct to be concerned about the direction we are going in
regards to alcohol and racing. I think there is a clear line between
having beer available to spectators, or participants /after/
competition, and having same for participants /during/ competition. The
whole issue of alcohols place in our society and policy relating to
minors is a separate topic.

I like beer as much as the next person (ok, maybe a bit more). I've also
been involved in racing of one kind or another for many years. From 1988
until 2004 I was involved with professional motorsports almost
exclusively. I was a on track official or team member for a wide variety
of organizations all over the world. One team even had a beer sponsor
that provided us multiple kegs for our hospitality for every race event.
And you know the number of times I had alcohol of any kind during the
time I was performing my duties? Absolutely zero times. Not while on the
track, not while working in the pits, not even while working on the
machines at the end of the day. Only after the job was done and all the
tools were put away was it time for a beer. I think the reasons for that
should be obvious. I think those same reasons are still valid for
bicycle racing.

That's my perspective. I'd ask everyone to consider what the event is
for. Are we there to race bikes or to drink? If the answer is the latter
then all we really have is a high priced drinking game.

Rick

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

"Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana

Maximillian Kirchoff wrote:

> Why not use the enforcement that would be necessary for a beer garden
> sanctioned area and make that enforcement watching for the smaller
> group of deviants. There are plenty of responsible adults who weren't
> spraying people with beer, who would still like to enjoy a tall boy at
> the races.
>
> Changing the general structure of how/when/where beer is consumed is
> not going to stop the jerks from being jerks. That's like sitting in a
> refrigerator when you have a fever. There should be steps taken to
> penalize and expel anyone participating in unacceptable behavior.
> That's what they do in sports and at bars. I'm not against conforming
> to OLCC regulations and recommendations, however I believe the
> structure of these events already falls into those. And while I can
> understand a lack of staff to fulfill enforcement, remember that
> creating a ban on beer or having sanctioned "beer garden" areas will
> require the same, if not more, enforcement.
>
> And if this really does come down to a lack of person-power, there
> seems to be a number of people who are chiming in now that would love
> to watch out for fellow racers' and the juniors' safety.
>
>
> ______________{ :)
> Max Kirchoff
> (503) 770-0629
> max@maxisnow.com
> http://www.maxisnow.com
> http://portfolio.maxisnow.com
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 9:15 AM, lisa graham > wrote:
>
> Mike is right,minors did get beer over the weekend,and minors were
> also sprayed with beer for not being in costume! Seriously,
> spraying a JR rider with beer is stupid,if they are not already
> very involved in racing do you think they would want to race
> again? Not likely.
> Lisa Graham
> zombie cyclists
> * h *
> * p ** i *
> * u l*
> *Me after a long ride ^^ l *
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: mike.murray@obra.org
>
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 08:39:24 -0800
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Beer and Juniors
>
> This is incorrect. There have been episodes of minors trying to
> get beer at races. I am sure some have been successful. The
> events of last weekend showed that the presence of (supposedly)
> responsible adults was not terribly protective against bad
> behavior. Excessive enforcement may drive underage drinking
> underground but having underage people obtain alcohol at races
> puts the entire organization at risk. I am more concerned about
> the possibility of legal problems than I am worried that some kids
> might drink. In addition, the possibility of injury related to
> alcohol use (drunk driving, riding, throwing of items at riders,
> etc.) creates liability risk for the whole organization. Last
> weekend was a sentinel event. We need to clean up the show.
>
>
>
> Mike Murray
>
>
>
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>
> [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> ] *On Behalf Of *Mike Kerkmann
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2009 00:29 AM
> *To:* obra@list.obra.org ; Randy Word
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Beer and Juniors
>
>
>
> I don't know what all the OLCC paranoia is all about. There are
> enough responsible adults around that would self police these kind
> of events (let alone fairs and other crap). How many junior cycle
> racers show up without a parent/guardian figure and would bee line
> it the keg if given a chance? Slimmm I think.
>
> Sorry if I am way off, but I think the over protective nature of
> our gov is just pushing underage drinking underground without the
> support and education that those who are more mature might offer.
> And no, I am not condoning it, I do think that the enforcement is
> excessive and creates a different set of problems.
>
> -Mike
>
> --- On *Tue, 11/3/09, Randy Word / >/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Randy Word >
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Beer and Juniors
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 9:59 PM
>
> Juniors and a ride through beer garden this Saturday? I'm sure
> that along with beer cans thrown in the face, spitting, and
> swearing will make every parent want to get their kids involved in
> bike racing. Thank you to those who recognized the issue last
> weekend and are putting a stop to it, but promoting and glorifying
> alcohol along with bike races is part of the problem and it
> certainly doesn't help with the goal of Junior development in the
> sport. Beer parties are fine if that's your thing, but they
> should be separate, not a glorified part of sanctioned races.
> Randy
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
> Sign up now.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>