The person Kenny Williams is not the issue - Mr Williams' cheating is.
In no way should any OBRA member condone or forgive cheating. It is a privige to race and that privilage comes with responsibilities and one of those is to follow rules.
Hear, hear
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Luciano bailey
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:39:37
To: ;
Cc: zak
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
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All points well said but as a witness to the fluke crash that may have set up Kenny's untimely choice. I love Kenny and was glad to see him always coming out to support year after year, only to have his season dashed in a needless reck. Sorry if empathy is the only emotion I can muster from such a close perspective.
From: sbrown@stevebrowncompany.com
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:20:18 -0800
To: darellp@easystreet.net
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
DP,
Well said. What disappoints me most is that Kenny could have done what most of us would have done if we got injured or sick. Just plain skip Natz. Not for me to judge about others doping, accept his forgiveness or suggest punishment. I know he is a friend to many out there. It is not about the Jersey or the bike. What I like about age group racing is that almost all give it their best, are supportive to others and show respect for all competitors. Sometimes I think I race just to see if my training works. Did I understand the challenge, prepare the right way and execute it. But even more. If I was the fastest at my event one a single day, it does not mean that I was a winner. Someone may have done better with less, made a bigger gain or had more fun.
I think that was what Kenny forgot.
Steve Brown
On Nov 10, 2009, at 7:40 PM, Darell C. Provencher wrote:
I am saddened to hear about this story. Kenny's story is just one of several I have heard over the past 15 years of masters-level racers testing positive. It's one more little beam of light on the big elephant in the room -- there is some percentage of top-level masters racers that cheat. I don't think age matters. For those who do cheat I think it's a deeper psychological issue about the inability to accept one's physical and competitive limitations when comparing one's self to others, and tying their own self-esteem to this obsessive perception to win at all costs, so that many dozens of people will hold you in high regard.
I think I remember that maybe it was 1990 in San Diego that USCF did their last year of random drug testing at masters track natz. So there has been no random testing of masters racers for about 20 yrs. I believe it was deemed too expensive and the rationale was that masters racers were competing "for fun" and certainly wouldn't dope up in significant numbers. From my own experience at masters track natz I've strongly suspected that some of the fastest riders I've competed against may have had some additional performance-enhancing support that I've chosen not to consider. I'd rather live longer and enjoy life than sleep with my stars & stripes jersey under my pillow, worrying about who might take it from me next year.
And if I do recall correctly, when a world record is set at masters track natz, your bike gets re-weighed immediately afterwards (to meet min 6.8 kg) and USA Cycling still reserves the right to drug test the "new" record-holder. What I'm not sure of is whether all record-holders are required to be tested.
Sometimes I think my only hope at winning a masters natz title is to outlive my key competitors. And yet even when I'm in my 70's, there'll probably be someone out there juicing up...At least I'll sleep at night.
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Mike Murray wrote:
The sad thing is taking DHEA was all risk and very little benefit. It is very doubtful that a low level anabolic like this really changed anything except the risk of public humiliation. It didn't make him heal faster or ride faster.
------Original Message------
From: Mick Walsh
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
To: halfwheelhill@yahoo.com
Cc: OBRA remailer
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
Sent: Nov 10, 2009 14:16
He volunteered the test to ratify a world record. He probably thought
it was out of his system.
On Nov 10, 2009, at 1:53 PM, halfwheelhill@yahoo.com wrote:
> What an idiot. Cheating at masters nats. Probably thought, oh they
> will never test at masters nats, I will be fine. Bet he pooped his
> pants when they wanted a test.
>
> Scott
> ------Original Message------
> From: Joe Cipale
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> ReplyTo: joec@aracnet.com
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
> Sent: Nov 10, 2009 1:21 PM
>
> STEVEN R HOLLAND wrote:
>
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/williams-admits-to-doping-positive
>
> He hasnt hurt cycling, per se, but he has certainly tainted his
> career.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> _______________________________________________
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I'm sure there's a lot of silver medalists in WA that would like all of his results overturned.
I just want credit for my 4th place being a 3rd at the 1988 Redmond Criterium....and the $10 difference in prize money.
> From: rondot@spiritone.com
> To: jonemyers@lycos.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:26:24 -0800
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
>
> Rock on Jon! You nailed it.
> ron
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jon Myers"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
>
>
> > To me any result that Kenny has ever had at a bike race should be
> > suspect. If it were up to me, all his results would be purged. Clearly
> > he would not have submitted to a voluntary test if he thought he would
> > fail so he was more than happy to take the win and record even though he
> > knew he had taken banned substances. He is only sad after being caught as
> > a cheat.
> > I am also 42 and have struggled back from a broken collar bone. It is
> > not a whole lot of fun placing at the back of the field after returning
> > from an injury like that, but it is something that most racers have had to
> > experience.
> > I love all the lame excuses for cheating: "everyone else is doing it so
> > I have to keep up", "It was the only time I ever did it", "I did it to
> > recover from fatigue or injury". Ultimately what these people are saying
> > is: I want to win, but I want to take the short cut to do it.
> > It is not just cycling, or professional cycling that has these problems.
> > Financial advisors, CEO, track and field athletes all have cheated.
> > Athletes cheat and get suspensions. Business leaders steal and go to
> > prision. It is all the same to me.
> >
> > -Jon Myers
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
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Rock on Jon! You nailed it.
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Myers"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
> To me any result that Kenny has ever had at a bike race should be
> suspect. If it were up to me, all his results would be purged. Clearly
> he would not have submitted to a voluntary test if he thought he would
> fail so he was more than happy to take the win and record even though he
> knew he had taken banned substances. He is only sad after being caught as
> a cheat.
> I am also 42 and have struggled back from a broken collar bone. It is
> not a whole lot of fun placing at the back of the field after returning
> from an injury like that, but it is something that most racers have had to
> experience.
> I love all the lame excuses for cheating: "everyone else is doing it so
> I have to keep up", "It was the only time I ever did it", "I did it to
> recover from fatigue or injury". Ultimately what these people are saying
> is: I want to win, but I want to take the short cut to do it.
> It is not just cycling, or professional cycling that has these problems.
> Financial advisors, CEO, track and field athletes all have cheated.
> Athletes cheat and get suspensions. Business leaders steal and go to
> prision. It is all the same to me.
>
> -Jon Myers
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
DP,
Well said. What disappoints me most is that Kenny could have done
what most of us would have done if we got injured or sick. Just
plain skip Natz. Not for me to judge about others doping, accept his
forgiveness or suggest punishment. I know he is a friend to many out
there. It is not about the Jersey or the bike. What I like about
age group racing is that almost all give it their best, are
supportive to others and show respect for all competitors. Sometimes
I think I race just to see if my training works. Did I understand
the challenge, prepare the right way and execute it. But even more.
If I was the fastest at my event one a single day, it does not mean
that I was a winner. Someone may have done better with less, made a
bigger gain or had more fun.
I think that was what Kenny forgot.
Steve Brown
On Nov 10, 2009, at 7:40 PM, Darell C. Provencher wrote:
> I am saddened to hear about this story. Kenny's story is just one
> of several I have heard over the past 15 years of masters-level
> racers testing positive. It's one more little beam of light on the
> big elephant in the room -- there is some percentage of top-level
> masters racers that cheat. I don't think age matters. For those who
> do cheat I think it's a deeper psychological issue about the
> inability to accept one's physical and competitive limitations when
> comparing one's self to others, and tying their own self-esteem to
> this obsessive perception to win at all costs, so that many dozens
> of people will hold you in high regard.
>
> I think I remember that maybe it was 1990 in San Diego that USCF
> did their last year of random drug testing at masters track natz.
> So there has been no random testing of masters racers for about 20
> yrs. I believe it was deemed too expensive and the rationale was
> that masters racers were competing "for fun" and certainly wouldn't
> dope up in significant numbers. From my own experience at masters
> track natz I've strongly suspected that some of the fastest riders
> I've competed against may have had some additional performance-
> enhancing support that I've chosen not to consider. I'd rather live
> longer and enjoy life than sleep with my stars & stripes jersey
> under my pillow, worrying about who might take it from me next year.
>
> And if I do recall correctly, when a world record is set at masters
> track natz, your bike gets re-weighed immediately afterwards (to
> meet min 6.8 kg) and USA Cycling still reserves the right to drug
> test the "new" record-holder. What I'm not sure of is whether all
> record-holders are required to be tested.
>
> Sometimes I think my only hope at winning a masters natz title is
> to outlive my key competitors. And yet even when I'm in my 70's,
> there'll probably be someone out there juicing up...At least I'll
> sleep at night.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Mike Murray
> wrote:
> The sad thing is taking DHEA was all risk and very little benefit.
> It is very doubtful that a low level anabolic like this really
> changed anything except the risk of public humiliation. It didn't
> make him heal faster or ride faster.
> ------Original Message------
> From: Mick Walsh
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> To: halfwheelhill@yahoo.com
> Cc: OBRA remailer
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
> Sent: Nov 10, 2009 14:16
>
> He volunteered the test to ratify a world record. He probably thought
> it was out of his system.
>
>
>
> On Nov 10, 2009, at 1:53 PM, halfwheelhill@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > What an idiot. Cheating at masters nats. Probably thought, oh they
> > will never test at masters nats, I will be fine. Bet he pooped his
> > pants when they wanted a test.
> >
> > Scott
> > ------Original Message------
> > From: Joe Cipale
> > Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > ReplyTo: joec@aracnet.com
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
> > Sent: Nov 10, 2009 1:21 PM
> >
> > STEVEN R HOLLAND wrote:
> >
> >> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/williams-admits-to-doping-positive
> >
> > He hasnt hurt cycling, per se, but he has certainly tainted his
> > career.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
To me any result that Kenny has ever had at a bike race should be suspect. If it were up to me, all his results would be purged. Clearly he would not have submitted to a voluntary test if he thought he would fail so he was more than happy to take the win and record even though he knew he had taken banned substances. He is only sad after being caught as a cheat.
I am also 42 and have struggled back from a broken collar bone. It is not a whole lot of fun placing at the back of the field after returning from an injury like that, but it is something that most racers have had to experience.
I love all the lame excuses for cheating: "everyone else is doing it so I have to keep up", "It was the only time I ever did it", "I did it to recover from fatigue or injury". Ultimately what these people are saying is: I want to win, but I want to take the short cut to do it.
It is not just cycling, or professional cycling that has these problems. Financial advisors, CEO, track and field athletes all have cheated. Athletes cheat and get suspensions. Business leaders steal and go to prision. It is all the same to me.
-Jon Myers
>From 2007 on world records will only be ratified if drug tested. This
year it was announced beforehand at masters natz that all riders that
set new records would be tested at USA cyclings expense.
-Per
>
> And if I do recall correctly, when a world record is set at masters track
> natz, your bike gets re-weighed immediately afterwards (to meet min 6.8 kg)
> and USA Cycling still reserves the right to drug test the "new"
> record-holder. What I'm not sure of is whether all record-holders are
> required to be tested.
>
I am saddened to hear about this story. Kenny's story is just one of several
I have heard over the past 15 years of masters-level racers testing
positive. It's one more little beam of light on the big elephant in the room
-- there is some percentage of top-level masters racers that cheat. I don't
think age matters. For those who do cheat I think it's a deeper
psychological issue about the inability to accept one's physical and
competitive limitations when comparing one's self to others, and tying their
own self-esteem to this obsessive perception to win at all costs, so that
many dozens of people will hold you in high regard.
I think I remember that maybe it was 1990 in San Diego that USCF did their
last year of random drug testing at masters track natz. So there has been
no random testing of masters racers for about 20 yrs. I believe it was
deemed too expensive and the rationale was that masters racers were
competing "for fun" and certainly wouldn't dope up in significant numbers.
>From my own experience at masters track natz I've strongly suspected that
some of the fastest riders I've competed against may have had some
additional performance-enhancing support that I've chosen not to
consider. I'd rather live longer and enjoy life than sleep with my stars &
stripes jersey under my pillow, worrying about who might take it from me
next year.
And if I do recall correctly, when a world record is set at masters track
natz, your bike gets re-weighed immediately afterwards (to meet min 6.8 kg)
and USA Cycling still reserves the right to drug test the "new"
record-holder. What I'm not sure of is whether all record-holders are
required to be tested.
Sometimes I think my only hope at winning a masters natz title is to outlive
my key competitors. And yet even when I'm in my 70's, there'll probably be
someone out there juicing up...At least I'll sleep at night.
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Mike Murray wrote:
> The sad thing is taking DHEA was all risk and very little benefit. It is
> very doubtful that a low level anabolic like this really changed anything
> except the risk of public humiliation. It didn't make him heal faster or
> ride faster.
> ------Original Message------
> From: Mick Walsh
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> To: halfwheelhill@yahoo.com
> Cc: OBRA remailer
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
> Sent: Nov 10, 2009 14:16
>
> He volunteered the test to ratify a world record. He probably thought
> it was out of his system.
>
>
>
> On Nov 10, 2009, at 1:53 PM, halfwheelhill@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > What an idiot. Cheating at masters nats. Probably thought, oh they
> > will never test at masters nats, I will be fine. Bet he pooped his
> > pants when they wanted a test.
> >
> > Scott
> > ------Original Message------
> > From: Joe Cipale
> > Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > ReplyTo: joec@aracnet.com
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
> > Sent: Nov 10, 2009 1:21 PM
> >
> > STEVEN R HOLLAND wrote:
> >
> >> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/williams-admits-to-doping-positive
> >
> > He hasnt hurt cycling, per se, but he has certainly tainted his
> > career.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
I must second Erik's thoughtful analysis. Williams' doping is VERY damaging to our sport because it supports the argument that cycling is rife with doping. Williams' has been around the block and won a lot of races. He has also worked in the industry and has reaped the benefit of many fruitful sponsorships. Many companies feel ripped off by doping and therefore want nothing to do with pro cycling this just means supports that they can get ripped off my amatures, too!
The other BIG problem is that there is absolutely very little doubt he was using much more than just this drug because my understanding is that this drug is part of a doping protocol and will do little on its own. Williams' has to work just as hard as all the rest of us. He still had to train many hours, but he chose to recover faster and stronger after his training. That is the "magic" dopers are seeking--more bang for the buck (maybe not literally for the stupid $$$ they spend). Williams' was at the nationals to win and if he won he would know he was going to get tested. So, that means he "knew" he was going to pass or so he thought...
That may be the most damaging part--he doped, likely with a whole slew of drugs for a period of time, and in his mind had the system beaten and he "couldn't" possibly be caught. That is the disease we are dealing with and he has stolen something from everyone who has ever raced a bicycle or will in the future. Just like the pros or anyone else who cheats except now he and this other guy from Texas have demonstrated that you don't have to be PRO to be a professional cheater.
Kenny, I don't know you but I will forgive you because there isn't a human on this earth who hasn't made an error in judgement. However, it still is a sad day and we will pay for this mistake and there isn't a thing that will change that!
Evan Plews
www.evanplews.com
503-949-4879
From: elongride@hotmail.com
To: joec@aracnet.com; obra@list.obra.org
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:04:31 -0800
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
Yes, he has hurt cycling. This is a very different positive test. When professionals test positive, we can console ourselves with the simple fact that the pusuit of money corrupts competition. We can feel like regional racing is bound to be clean simply because there's monitary gain from cheating. But Kenny Williams . . .
I've known amateur riders who have taken illegal products over the years and not a single one amounted to anything - they had the "short cut" mentality. With or without dope, you don't find success unless you do some real work. That's what I don't understand here. I don't know the man on a personal level, but I've heard a lot about the work ethic of Kenny Williams. He's a solid natural talent who's been feared in the Northwest since the early 90's and he trains his ass off.
Now we're left to wonder how long the guy has been using what it has cost us. The majority of 1's and 2's in Oregon have had their legs ripped off by Kenny Williams at some point. How many potential pros has he hurt? How many riders could have had that one extra win on the resume' that could've put them on a better team?
Kenny Williams has hurt cycling. Not only that, he has hurt cycling in the Northwest at the grassroots level, where we can least afford it.
-Erik
> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:21:49 -0800
> From: joec@aracnet.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
>
> STEVEN R HOLLAND wrote:
>
> > http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/williams-admits-to-doping-positive
>
> He hasnt hurt cycling, per se, but he has certainly tainted his career.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now.
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But Ron, you make winning look so easy AND with a smile on your face that I
can't help but think that these dopers are jealous of you,the clean guys.
Guys they can never be. Just my 2cents +.----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron and Dorothy Strasser"
To: "Chipp"
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
>I agree with you Chipp even though I referred to his decision as a mistake
> (it was a big fat one huh?), but if they put a penality on it and he pays
> it
> (time I assume, but I don't really follow this shit),then wants to come
> back
> and race clean, that would be fine with me. But what I think may not be
> the
> norm.
> ron
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chipp"
> To: ; ;
> ;
> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
>
>
>> Maybe so John but a mistake is accidentally being overdressed or
>> over-geared in a sprint. Taking dope is not a mistake it's pre-meditated
>> cheating.We've read this tear stained story ad nauseum. He's a cheat and
>> not by mistake. He needs to leave the sport at all levels.Tyler was a
>> good
>> guy too who loved his dog and America.And dope. Yep, sure did.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From:
>> To: ; ;
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 2:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
>>
>>
>>> You don't know Kenny. This was a desperation driven idiotic mistake.
>>> He's
>>> screwed up his greatest passion in life, perhaps irretrievably. Even
>>> with
>>> this he is a good human being.
>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: halfwheelhill@yahoo.com
>>> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:53:57
>>> To: ;
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
>>>
>>> What an idiot. Cheating at masters nats. Probably thought, oh they will
>>> never test at masters nats, I will be fine. Bet he pooped his pants when
>>> they wanted a test.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>> ------Original Message------
>>> From: Joe Cipale
>>> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> ReplyTo: joec@aracnet.com
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
>>> Sent: Nov 10, 2009 1:21 PM
>>>
>>> STEVEN R HOLLAND wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/williams-admits-to-doping-positive
>>>
>>> He hasnt hurt cycling, per se, but he has certainly tainted his career.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>>
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07:38:00
Here's the more important issue to ponder:
Would Kenny still win the Mullet / Laurent Brochard look alike contest at
Eugene Roubaix assuming he's off the juice next season?
http://www.obra.org/flyers/2009/eugene_roubaix.html
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Mike Murray wrote:
> The sad thing is taking DHEA was all risk and very little benefit. It is
> very doubtful that a low level anabolic like this really changed anything
> except the risk of public humiliation. It didn't make him heal faster or
> ride faster.
> ------Original Message------
> From: Mick Walsh
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> To: halfwheelhill@yahoo.com
> Cc: OBRA remailer
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
> Sent: Nov 10, 2009 14:16
>
> He volunteered the test to ratify a world record. He probably thought
> it was out of his system.
>
>
>
> On Nov 10, 2009, at 1:53 PM, halfwheelhill@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > What an idiot. Cheating at masters nats. Probably thought, oh they
> > will never test at masters nats, I will be fine. Bet he pooped his
> > pants when they wanted a test.
> >
> > Scott
> > ------Original Message------
> > From: Joe Cipale
> > Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > ReplyTo: joec@aracnet.com
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
> > Sent: Nov 10, 2009 1:21 PM
> >
> > STEVEN R HOLLAND wrote:
> >
> >> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/williams-admits-to-doping-positive
> >
> > He hasnt hurt cycling, per se, but he has certainly tainted his
> > career.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
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> >
> >
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
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The sad thing is taking DHEA was all risk and very little benefit. It is very doubtful that a low level anabolic like this really changed anything except the risk of public humiliation. It didn't make him heal faster or ride faster.
------Original Message------
From: Mick Walsh
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
To: halfwheelhill@yahoo.com
Cc: OBRA remailer
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
Sent: Nov 10, 2009 14:16
He volunteered the test to ratify a world record. He probably thought
it was out of his system.
On Nov 10, 2009, at 1:53 PM, halfwheelhill@yahoo.com wrote:
> What an idiot. Cheating at masters nats. Probably thought, oh they
> will never test at masters nats, I will be fine. Bet he pooped his
> pants when they wanted a test.
>
> Scott
> ------Original Message------
> From: Joe Cipale
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> ReplyTo: joec@aracnet.com
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
> Sent: Nov 10, 2009 1:21 PM
>
> STEVEN R HOLLAND wrote:
>
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/williams-admits-to-doping-positive
>
> He hasnt hurt cycling, per se, but he has certainly tainted his
> career.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
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>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> _______________________________________________
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Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
This is the problem: cheating. The cause is the desire to win at any
cost. Be it pool, weight lifting, or bicycle racing, every sport has
someone looking for "an edge" on the competition.
On Nov 10, 2009, at 3:00 PM, Chipp wrote:
> Taking dope is not a mistake it's pre-meditated cheating.
Maybe so John but a mistake is accidentally being overdressed or
over-geared in a sprint. Taking dope is not a mistake it's pre-meditated
cheating.We've read this tear stained story ad nauseum. He's a cheat and not
by mistake. He needs to leave the sport at all levels.Tyler was a good guy
too who loved his dog and America.And dope. Yep, sure did.
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: ; ;
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
> You don't know Kenny. This was a desperation driven idiotic mistake. He's
> screwed up his greatest passion in life, perhaps irretrievably. Even with
> this he is a good human being.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: halfwheelhill@yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:53:57
> To: ;
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
>
> What an idiot. Cheating at masters nats. Probably thought, oh they will
> never test at masters nats, I will be fine. Bet he pooped his pants when
> they wanted a test.
>
> Scott
> ------Original Message------
> From: Joe Cipale
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> ReplyTo: joec@aracnet.com
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
> Sent: Nov 10, 2009 1:21 PM
>
> STEVEN R HOLLAND wrote:
>
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/williams-admits-to-doping-positive
>
> He hasnt hurt cycling, per se, but he has certainly tainted his career.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
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>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
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07:38:00
I think it may hurt cycling more than when the pros dope. We all know the
about pressure to dope when you are a pro, money is on the table, it makes
sense. But with dopers in the amateur ranks we all have to consider whether
we want to risk our health, moral integrity, finances, to pursue good
results as amateurs, every one of us is forced to make that decision knowing
that some of us are doping.
I have to just learn to love cycling, being healthy, etc. and kind of not
get caught up in getting results. I would be one of those guys that would be
tempted to cheat if I got real worked up about results. Especially knowing
others are doping. It is sad... and very bad for cycling.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Cipale"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
> STEVEN R HOLLAND wrote:
>
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/williams-admits-to-doping-positive
>
> He hasnt hurt cycling, per se, but he has certainly tainted his career.
> _______________________________________________
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>
After reading the article, I believe he is very sorry indeed. But I do
believe that it does hurt cycling in that whoever reads of this event has
just one more example of how cyclists dope. Of course we all know it is the
individual who makes the decision to dope or not to dope, but the general
public just sees another cyclist using dope to win. You guys may not even
understand this, but when I race... I want to do it with the body and mind I
have. I do not even want to draft. That is why I dropped back off the pace
line two winters ago at the Kermesse races out at PIR. It is not about
winning, it is about riding as hard as you can (for me). I know that is not
what most people think and I am fine with all the drafting etc. But
drafting is fair... doping is not. I think after his penalty is paid he
should be accepted back into the race family. We all make mistakes and pay
for them as we go through life. I do think that his "reason" for doping was
only based on doing what was needed to win. He could have used his 42 years
of life experience to accept the fact that he needed more time to heal and
gain strength instead of using that drug. This does show me that whatever
mistakes I made at 42 (can't really remember, but am sure there were at
least several), I was probably just about as normal as any other 42 year
old... just not making the mistakes that would cost me the cycling title. I
hope he does learn, stays clean and comes back racing strong... and has fun.
How many mistakes have I made today?
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Cipale"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
> STEVEN R HOLLAND wrote:
>
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/williams-admits-to-doping-positive
>
> He hasnt hurt cycling, per se, but he has certainly tainted his career.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
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>
now that was funny.............and i know kenny and his rear wheel.
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 2:24 PM, wrote:
> You don't know Kenny. This was a desperation driven idiotic mistake. He's
> screwed up his greatest passion in life, perhaps irretrievably. Even with
> this he is a good human being.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: halfwheelhill@yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:53:57
> To: ;
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
>
> What an idiot. Cheating at masters nats. Probably thought, oh they will
> never test at masters nats, I will be fine. Bet he pooped his pants when
> they wanted a test.
>
> Scott
> ------Original Message------
> From: Joe Cipale
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> ReplyTo: joec@aracnet.com
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
> Sent: Nov 10, 2009 1:21 PM
>
> STEVEN R HOLLAND wrote:
>
> > http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/williams-admits-to-doping-positive
>
> He hasnt hurt cycling, per se, but he has certainly tainted his career.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
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>
You don't know Kenny. This was a desperation driven idiotic mistake. He's screwed up his greatest passion in life, perhaps irretrievably. Even with this he is a good human being.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: halfwheelhill@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:53:57
To: ;
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
What an idiot. Cheating at masters nats. Probably thought, oh they will never test at masters nats, I will be fine. Bet he pooped his pants when they wanted a test.
Scott
------Original Message------
From: Joe Cipale
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
To: obra@list.obra.org
ReplyTo: joec@aracnet.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
Sent: Nov 10, 2009 1:21 PM
STEVEN R HOLLAND wrote:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/williams-admits-to-doping-positive
He hasnt hurt cycling, per se, but he has certainly tainted his career.
_______________________________________________
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He volunteered the test to ratify a world record. He probably thought
it was out of his system.
On Nov 10, 2009, at 1:53 PM, halfwheelhill@yahoo.com wrote:
> What an idiot. Cheating at masters nats. Probably thought, oh they
> will never test at masters nats, I will be fine. Bet he pooped his
> pants when they wanted a test.
>
> Scott
> ------Original Message------
> From: Joe Cipale
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> ReplyTo: joec@aracnet.com
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
> Sent: Nov 10, 2009 1:21 PM
>
> STEVEN R HOLLAND wrote:
>
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/williams-admits-to-doping-positive
>
> He hasnt hurt cycling, per se, but he has certainly tainted his
> career.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> _______________________________________________
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Yes, he has hurt cycling. This is a very different positive test. When professionals test positive, we can console ourselves with the simple fact that the pusuit of money corrupts competition. We can feel like regional racing is bound to be clean simply because there's monitary gain from cheating. But Kenny Williams . . .
I've known amateur riders who have taken illegal products over the years and not a single one amounted to anything - they had the "short cut" mentality. With or without dope, you don't find success unless you do some real work. That's what I don't understand here. I don't know the man on a personal level, but I've heard a lot about the work ethic of Kenny Williams. He's a solid natural talent who's been feared in the Northwest since the early 90's and he trains his ass off.
Now we're left to wonder how long the guy has been using what it has cost us. The majority of 1's and 2's in Oregon have had their legs ripped off by Kenny Williams at some point. How many potential pros has he hurt? How many riders could have had that one extra win on the resume' that could've put them on a better team?
Kenny Williams has hurt cycling. Not only that, he has hurt cycling in the Northwest at the grassroots level, where we can least afford it.
-Erik
> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:21:49 -0800
> From: joec@aracnet.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
>
> STEVEN R HOLLAND wrote:
>
> > http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/williams-admits-to-doping-positive
>
> He hasnt hurt cycling, per se, but he has certainly tainted his career.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
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What an idiot. Cheating at masters nats. Probably thought, oh they will never test at masters nats, I will be fine. Bet he pooped his pants when they wanted a test.
Scott
------Original Message------
From: Joe Cipale
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
To: obra@list.obra.org
ReplyTo: joec@aracnet.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams test positive at Masters
Sent: Nov 10, 2009 1:21 PM
STEVEN R HOLLAND wrote:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/williams-admits-to-doping-positive
He hasnt hurt cycling, per se, but he has certainly tainted his career.
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
STEVEN R HOLLAND wrote:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/williams-admits-to-doping-positive
He hasnt hurt cycling, per se, but he has certainly tainted his career.
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