cwherity@juno.com

This is almost correct. The issue is the amount of benefit. It is nowhere near 1%. It may be 0% or even a negative number.

Just to be clear, it is still against the rules and still should be punished according to the rules. I just think that we need to not invest these substances with properties they don't have. Doing that only encourages use.
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Long
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:48:04
To: ; Obra
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams

This exchange is truly amazing to me. A group of people who obsess over whether tubulars or tubeless tires will give them an edge, over whether a disc wheel or an aero helmet will save more time, and which brand of sports drink will make that sliver of a difference between 5th place and winning are actually suggesting that the performance enhancers that one of its own was taking didn't really matter.

Are we delusional? Can we just not do math? Is that our proplem?

Let's pretend that the dope only gave Kenny a 1% gain in average output. 1% seems insignificant, but that difference is huge in this sport. Beyond huge. That's hundreds of feet in a Crit. That's a mile at a State Championship Road Race. Everybody who's ever been 2nd to Kenny for a prime has to be really pissed off right now.

"It was eleven more than neccessary." — Jacques Anquetil, after winning a race by twelve seconds.

To: obra@list.obra.org
From: mike.murray@obra.org
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:38:04 +0000
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams

Having a positive for DHEA is not like the scenario that Steve describes. It is more like getting caught shop lifting some candy. That would not be evidence of having robbed a bank. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
From: STEVEN R HOLLAND
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:23:56 -0800 (PST)To: ; OBRA remailerSubject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams

Come on Mike. I guess you think if two guys with guns run out of a bank and jump into a car and speed away doesn't mean they just robbed the bank either????

STEVEN R HOLLAND
17203 SE 30TH ST
VANCOUVER,WA 98683
C(360) 600-2702

From: Mike Murray
To: OBRA remailer
Sent: Fri, November 13, 2009 2:20:13 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams

So what if he only took DHEA? Just having taken this over the counter "food supplement" does not necessarily mean he took anything else. Since these drugs are not very effective at increasing performance you can't rationally use high performance as a predictor of substance use.
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Long
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:16:22
To: ; ; Obra
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Kenny Williams

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