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Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

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DaViD AuKeR

2002-05-23

George, et al,

My:

hold it until you get

home...

should give it away that I was cynically joking - no one's gonna wait

until getting home! I don't have the solution to the solution (pun

intended), but if you've gotta go, you've gotta go! Much discretion IS

necessary - I don't think anyone would argue w/that. Lot's of porta

potties, well placed, is the obvious 1st step. Starting a road race

when you gotta pee is not good. (Wasn't there footage of Alexi or Roll

alongside the road, squatting, in a TdF?) If an official sees someone

really discretely peeing, I'm not sure what penilety should be

enacted... Everyone uses the woods sometimes!

Do you know the circumstances around the prior e-mail complaint??

Was there an actual case, or just the general "peeing on the daisies

offends my young girls?"

David (glad not to be an official!)

(My personal record of peeing on the actual staging area at the start

line is 4x! ...When there are 100 guys standing w/bikes, no one can see

pee...)

Schreck, George wrote:

If you can David, if you can.? Sometimes, nature runs afoul of our

intentions, and we must adapt.? Are you suggesting that you never have

had to deal with that situation. If so, you really are an iron man.?

As for you first sentence, that is exactily what I am talking about.?

Do you know the circumstances around the prior e-mail complaint?? I

think we have beaten this to death. No pun intended.

????????????????????????? George C. Schreck

?????????????????????????? Phone: (503) 813-7211

?????????????????????????? Fax: (503) 813-7190

-----Original Message-----

...(snip)....

Not in MY woods, please!? You're only fooling yourself when you think

"no one can see you!"? Don't go in the woods -- hold it until you get

home...

David

Douglas Duguay

2002-05-23

Can we put this one to bed? I agree with George that

we don't need another rule. People, please use your

best judgement at races. Enough said?

DD

=====

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Go to www.bicyclinghub.com for more details

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Schreck, George

2002-05-23

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If you can David, if you can. Sometimes, nature runs afoul of our

intentions, and we must adapt. Are you suggesting that you never have had

to deal with that situation. If so, you really are an iron man. As for you

first sentence, that is exactily what I am talking about. Do you know the

circumstances around the prior e-mail complaint? I think we have beaten

this to death. No pun intended.

                          George C. Schreck

                           Phone: (503) 813-7211

                           Fax: (503) 813-7190

-----Original Message-----

From: DaViD AuKeR [mailto:DaV-@Hevanet.Com]

Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 9:07 PM

To: TSch-@mackaysposito.com

Cc: 'george.-@pacificorp.com'; mike.m-@obra.org;

ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

Tim Schauer wrote:

I mean it is one thing on a ride to stop and run off into the woods where

no one can see you and there are

no bathrooms or port-a-potties around, but that isn't what we are talking

about here, is it?

Not in MY woods, please! You're only fooling yourself when you think

"no one can see you!" Don't go in the woods -- hold it until you get

home...

David

You're actually saying that there are circumstances where you feel it

is okay to "take a leak", at a race venue (especially private property

graciously loaned to us)?that has been provided to?us as a privilege

where we are guests, rather than wait in line for the bathroom, like

everyone else?

?

I mean it is one thing on a ride to stop and run off into the woods

where no one can see you and there are no bathrooms or port-a-potties

around, but that isn't what we are talking about here, is it?

?

What are those circumstances where you feel you should be able to

behave this way (pee freely), while representing....the race

promoter,....OBRA,....your team,....our sport? Let's hear them.....

?

-Tim Schauer

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If you can David, if you can. Sometimes, nature runs afoul of our intentions, and we must adapt. Are you suggesting that you never have had to deal with that situation. If so, you really are an iron man. As for you first sentence, that is exactily what I am talking about. Do you know the circumstances around the prior e-mail complaint? I think we have beaten this to death. No pun intended.

 George C. Schreck

 Phone: (503) 813-7211

 Fax: (503) 813-7190



 

-----Original Message-----

 From: DaViD AuKeR [<A HREF="mailto:DaV-@Hevanet.Com">mailto:DaV-@Hevanet.Com</A>]

 Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 9:07 PM

 To: TSch-@mackaysposito.com

 Cc: 'george.-@pacificorp.com'; mike.m-@obra.org;

 ob-@topica.com

 Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct



 

Tim Schauer wrote:



> I mean it is one thing on a ride to stop and run off into the woods where no one can see you and there are

 > no bathrooms or port-a-potties around, but that isn't what we are talking about here, is it?



Not in MY woods, please! You're only fooling yourself when you think

 "no one can see you!" Don't go in the woods -- hold it until you get

 home...



David



 

> 

 > You're actually saying that there are circumstances where you feel it

 > is okay to "take a leak", at a race venue (especially private property

 > graciously loaned to us)?that has been provided to?us as a privilege

 > where we are guests, rather than wait in line for the bathroom, like

 > everyone else?

 > ?

 > I mean it is one thing on a ride to stop and run off into the woods

 > where no one can see you and there are no bathrooms or port-a-potties

 > around, but that isn't what we are talking about here, is it?

 > ?

 > What are those circumstances where you feel you should be able to

 > behave this way (pee freely), while representing....the race

 > promoter,....OBRA,....your team,....our sport? Let's hear them.....

 > ?

 > -Tim Schauer

 > 



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Schreck, George

2002-05-23

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The former, in the woods where no one can see you unless they are

particularly nosey. I have been at races where the bathrooms are completely

inadequate, and my choice is to either create my own facilities where I am

unlikely to be seen, or miss the race. Lighten up a little. I was not

suggesting that you pee in the open or where there are adequate

alternatives, and I think my e-mail stated that it would be in appropriate

circumstances only. Perhaps you lack the judgement to assess those

circumstances, but do not assume others lack the necessary judgement. That

is my problem with a rule. It represents rigid black and white thinking, and

I am concerned that some people (perhaps you. perhaps not) will be excessive

in enforcement. I believe you completely missed the thrust of my e-mail.

 George C. Schreck

 Phone: (503) 813-7211

 Fax: (503) 813-7190

-----Original Message-----

From: Tim Schauer [mailto:TSch-@mackaysposito.com]

Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 6:27 PM

To: 'george.-@pacificorp.com'; mike.m-@obra.org; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

You're actually saying that there are circumstances where you feel it is

okay to "take a leak", at a race venue (especially private property

graciously loaned to us) that has been provided to us as a privilege where

we are guests, rather than wait in line for the bathroom, like everyone

else?

I mean it is one thing on a ride to stop and run off into the woods where no

one can see you and there are no bathrooms or port-a-potties around, but

that isn't what we are talking about here, is it?

What are those circumstances where you feel you should be able to behave

this way (pee freely), while representing....the race

promoter,....OBRA,....your team,....our sport? Let's hear them.....

-Tim Schauer

-----Original Message-----

From: Schreck, George [mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com]

Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 4:41 PM

To: mike.m-@obra.org; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

I think there is a point where you go too far to regulate personal behavior.

Sometimes there are circumstances where that behavior may be necessary and

if done carefully and appropriately, riders should not be disqualified. We

have enough rules. What we need is more common sense and consideration. I

think most people do the best they can, and I think some people are always

looking for a reason to complain about bike racing.

 George C. Schreck

 Phone: (503) 813-7211

 Fax: (503) 813-7190

-----Original Message-----

From: mike.m-@obra.org [ mailto:mike.m-@obra.org

<mailto:mike.m-@obra.org> ]

Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 3:27 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

Public urination could be penalized under the "unsportsman like conduct"

although that is a bit of a stretch. I, personally, would be in favor of

adding such a prohibition, since public urination is the most common cause

for loss of race venues in the US. Actually I think that we should expand

the prohibition to include public nudity and violation of Oregon laws, not

because I have anything against naked people but because public nudity

(changing clothes) at bike races is a focus of complaints from the public.

If everyone could just cover up with a towel or something...

The mechanism for modifying the rules is:

"Modification of these rules may be made by vote of the club

representatives, generally at an annual meeting. Proposed rule changes shall

be presented to OBRA in written form to be voted on by the club

representatives. The OBRA board may in an emergency, or in the case of a

time sensitive matter, make modifications to these rules. Changes to the

rules which are primarily of a housekeeping nature, such as printing format

or changing numbering, may be made without board approval."

If this is important to people I would expect that we will get proposals as

outlined above.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----

From: Ron Frerichs [ mailto:ronfre-@hotmail.com

<mailto:ronfre-@hotmail.com> ]

Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 15:11 PM

To: jim_fi-@hp.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

While we're on the subject, any way to add public urination to that list?

Some of us would like races to be a family event. But my family doesn't

need to see some guy watering the daisies because he's too lazy or in too

much of a hurry to wait for a port-a-potty. To tell you the truth, I would

rather have my 10 year old daughter hear some foul language than to get a

real life male anatomy lesson.

If you really have to, please take it somewhere away from the

staging/starting area.

Thanks.

From: "FISCHER,JAMES (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <jim_fi-@hp.com>

Reply-To: jim_fi-@hp.com

To: "'ob-@topica.com'" <ob-@topica.com>

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 13:02:39 -0700

Greetings,

Apparently, there were some course marshal problems at the Coast Hills

Classic mountain bike race this past weekend. Several riders were

misdirected by volunteers who had been last minute replacements for the

intended trained volunteers. Some of these riders felt it necessary to be

verbally abusive to downstream volunteers on the course. This sort of

behavior is out of line and will not be tolerated. Below is an excerpt from

the OBRA rules regarding this matter and the associated penalty:

"13.2 - Misconduct may be punished at the discretion of the Chief Referee.

The forms of

misconduct include, but are not limited to:

- Unsportsmanlike conduct

- Theft

- Fraud (including falsifying information on an entry)

- Causing any race to have a result other than on the merits of the

competitors

- Dangerous Riding

- Making an abrupt motion which interferes with the forward progress of

another rider

- Using foul or abusive language or conduct toward any individual

- Pushing or holding another rider (whether on a different team or not)

except in Madison where

riders may only push their teammate.

- Failure to follow a referee's order

- Completing any part of the course without a bicycle. (It is not required

to ride the bicycle the

entire course.)

- Not maintaining equipment properly so that it is dangerous (i.e.

insufficient glue on tires, etc.)

- Riding on a race course when not entered in an event in progress.

- Taking pace from a vehicle or from a rider in a different race

- Violating any of the OBRA Racing Rules"

"15.1 - A rider or club can be suspended for the following:

- any violation of rule13.2"

Regards, Jim Fischer

OBRA ATB Official

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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<DIV>The

former, in the woods where no one can see you unless they are particularly

nosey. I have been at races where the bathrooms are completely inadequate,

and my choice is to either create my own facilities where I am unlikely to be

seen, or miss the race. Lighten up a little. I was not

suggesting that you pee in the open or where there are adequate alternatives,

and I think my e-mail stated that it would be in appropriate circumstances

only. Perhaps you lack the judgement to assess those circumstances, but do

not assume others lack the necessary judgement. That is my problem with a

rule. It represents rigid black and white thinking, and I am concerned that some

people (perhaps you. perhaps not) will be excessive in enforcement. I

believe you completely missed the thrust of my e-mail.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

 

George C. Schreck 

Phone: (503) 813-7211 

Fax: (503) 813-7190 

<DIV> </DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader>-----Original Message----- From: Tim Schauer

[mailto:TSch-@mackaysposito.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002

6:27 PM To: 'george.-@pacificorp.com'; mike.m-@obra.org;

ob-@topica.com Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and

unsportsmanlike conduct </DIV>

<DIV>You're actually saying that there are circumstances where you feel it

is okay to "take a leak", at a race venue (especially private property

graciously loaned to us) that has been provided to us as a privilege

where we are guests, rather than wait in line for the bathroom, like everyone

else?</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>I

mean it is one thing on a ride to stop and run off into the woods where no one

can see you and there are no bathrooms or port-a-potties around, but that

isn't what we are talking about here, is it?</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>What

are those circumstances where you feel you should be able to behave this way

(pee freely), while representing....the race promoter,....OBRA,....your

team,....our sport? Let's hear them.....</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>-Tim

Schauer</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

 <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: Schreck, George

 [mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 22,

 2002 4:41 PM To: mike.m-@obra.org;

 ob-@topica.com Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and

 unsportsmanlike conduct </DIV>

 I think there is a point where you go too far to regulate

 personal behavior. Sometimes there are circumstances where that

 behavior may be necessary and if done carefully and appropriately, riders

 should not be disqualified. We have enough rules. What we need

 is more common sense and consideration. I think most people do the

 best they can, and I think some people are always looking for a reason to

 complain about bike racing.

 

 George C. Schreck 

 Phone: (503) 813-7211 

 Fax: (503) 813-7190 

 -----Original Message----- From:

 mike.m-@obra.org [<A

 href="mailto:mike.m-@obra.org">mailto:mike.m-@obra.org</A>]

 Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 3:27 PM To: ob-@topica.com Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat]

 Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct 

 Public urination could be penalized under the "unsportsman

 like conduct" although that is a bit of a

 stretch. I, personally, would be in favor of adding such a prohibition, since public urination is the most common

 cause for loss of race venues in the US.

 Actually I think that we should expand the

 prohibition to include public nudity and violation of Oregon laws,

 not because I have anything against naked people but

 because public nudity (changing clothes) at bike

 races is a focus of complaints from the public. If

 everyone could just cover up with a towel or something... 

 The mechanism for modifying the rules is: "Modification of these rules may be made by vote of the club

 representatives, generally at an annual meeting. Proposed

 rule changes shall be presented to OBRA in written

 form to be voted on by the club representatives. The

 OBRA board may in an emergency, or in the case of a time sensitive matter, make modifications to these rules. Changes to

 the rules which are primarily of a housekeeping

 nature, such as printing format or changing

 numbering, may be made without board approval." 

 If this is important to people I would expect that we will

 get proposals as outlined above. 

 Mike Murray 

 -----Original Message----- From: Ron

 Frerichs [<A

 href="mailto:ronfre-@hotmail.com">mailto:ronfre-@hotmail.com</A>]

 Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 15:11 PM To: jim_fi-@hp.com; ob-@topica.com Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

 

 While we're on the subject, any way to add public urination

 to that list? Some of us would like races to be a

 family event. But my family doesn't need to

 see some guy watering the daisies because he's too lazy or in too

 much of a hurry to wait for a port-a-potty. To tell

 you the truth, I would rather have my 10 year old

 daughter hear some foul language than to get a real

 life male anatomy lesson. 

 If you really have to, please take it somewhere away from

 the staging/starting area. 

 Thanks. 

 From: "FISCHER,JAMES (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"

 <jim_fi-@hp.com> Reply-To:

 jim_fi-@hp.com To: "'ob-@topica.com'"

 <ob-@topica.com> Subject: [OBRA Chat]

 Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct Date: Tue, 21

 May 2002 13:02:39 -0700 

 Greetings, 

 Apparently, there were some course marshal problems at the

 Coast Hills Classic mountain bike race this past

 weekend. Several riders were misdirected by

 volunteers who had been last minute replacements for the intended trained volunteers. Some of these riders felt it

 necessary to be verbally abusive to downstream

 volunteers on the course. This sort of behavior is out of line and will not be tolerated. Below is an

 excerpt from the OBRA rules regarding this matter

 and the associated penalty: 

 "13.2 - Misconduct may be punished at the discretion of the

 Chief Referee. The forms of misconduct include, but are not limited to: -

 Unsportsmanlike conduct - Theft - Fraud (including falsifying information on an entry)

 - Causing any race to have a result other than on the

 merits of the competitors -

 Dangerous Riding - Making an abrupt motion which

 interferes with the forward progress of another

 rider - Using foul or abusive language or conduct

 toward any individual - Pushing or holding another

 rider (whether on a different team or not) except in

 Madison where riders may only push their

 teammate. - Failure to follow a referee's

 order - Completing any part of the course without a

 bicycle. (It is not required to ride the bicycle

 the entire course.) - Not

 maintaining equipment properly so that it is dangerous (i.e.

 insufficient glue on tires, etc.) -

 Riding on a race course when not entered in an event in progress.

 - Taking pace from a vehicle or from a rider in a different

 race - Violating any of the OBRA Racing

 Rules" 

 "15.1 - A rider or club can be suspended for the

 following: - any violation of rule13.2" 

 Regards, Jim Fischer OBRA ATB

 Official 

 To respond to the whole group send to

 ob-@topica.com. To respond to the list manager send

 to ob-@teleport.com To unsubscribe send to

 obra-uns-@topica.com 

 _________________________________________________________________

 Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <A

 target=_blank

 href="http://messenger.msn.com">http://messenger.msn.com</A> 

 To respond to the whole group send to

 ob-@topica.com. To respond to the list manager send

 to ob-@teleport.com To unsubscribe send to

 obra-uns-@topica.com 

 To respond to the whole group send to

 ob-@topica.com. To respond to the list manager send

 to ob-@teleport.com To unsubscribe send to

 obra-uns-@topica.com 

 <PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE>

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This

 email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended

 solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else, unless

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Ron Frerichs

2002-05-22

"To pee, or not to pee, that is the question..."

From: rick hammel <hamm-@yahoo.com>

Reply-To: hamm-@yahoo.com

To: TSch-@mackaysposito.com, "'george.-@pacificorp.com'"

<george.-@pacificorp.com>, mike.m-@obra.org, ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 21:58:26 -0700 (PDT)

"What a piece of work is man! How noble in reason! how

infinite in faculties! in form and moving, how express

and admirable! . . . And yet, to me, what is this

quintessence of dust?"

Being at school and fairly stressed out and sick for

the past two weeks I thought I'd e-mail the whole

group and quote the Bard to express my bitter reaction

to "personal attack" e-mails sent to the entire list.

. . . . if only there had been a rule to stop me.

 "quin?tes?sence (Pronunciation: kwin-'te-s&n(t)s):

 2 : the essence of a thing in its purest and most

 concentrated form

 3 : the most typical example or representative."

for more cool Shakespeare quotes:

http://www.shakespeare.sk/Quotes/Quotes.html

Thank You.

--- Tim Schauer <TSch-@mackaysposito.com> wrote:

You're actually saying that there are circumstances

where you feel it is

okay to "take a leak", at a race venue (especially

private property

graciously loaned to us) that has been provided to

us as a privilege where

we are guests, rather than wait in line for the

bathroom, like everyone

else?

I mean it is one thing on a ride to stop and run off

into the woods where no

one can see you and there are no bathrooms or

port-a-potties around, but

that isn't what we are talking about here, is it?

What are those circumstances where you feel you

should be able to behave

this way (pee freely), while representing....the

race

promoter,....OBRA,....your team,....our sport? Let's

hear them.....

-Tim Schauer

-----Original Message-----

From: Schreck, George

[mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com]

Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 4:41 PM

To: mike.m-@obra.org; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and

unsportsmanlike conduct

I think there is a point where you go too far to

regulate personal behavior.

Sometimes there are circumstances where that

behavior may be necessary and

if done carefully and appropriately, riders should

not be disqualified. We

have enough rules. What we need is more common

sense and consideration. I

think most people do the best they can, and I think

some people are always

looking for a reason to complain about bike racing.

 George C. Schreck

 Phone: (503) 813-7211

 Fax: (503) 813-7190

-----Original Message-----

From: mike.m-@obra.org [

mailto:mike.m-@obra.org

<mailto:mike.m-@obra.org> ]

Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 3:27 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and

unsportsmanlike conduct

Public urination could be penalized under the

"unsportsman like conduct"

although that is a bit of a stretch. I, personally,

would be in favor of

adding such a prohibition, since public urination is

the most common cause

for loss of race venues in the US. Actually I think

that we should expand

the prohibition to include public nudity and

violation of Oregon laws, not

because I have anything against naked people but

because public nudity

(changing clothes) at bike races is a focus of

complaints from the public.

If everyone could just cover up with a towel or

something...

The mechanism for modifying the rules is:

"Modification of these rules may be made by vote of

the club

representatives, generally at an annual meeting.

Proposed rule changes shall

be presented to OBRA in written form to be voted on

by the club

representatives. The OBRA board may in an emergency,

or in the case of a

time sensitive matter, make modifications to these

rules. Changes to the

rules which are primarily of a housekeeping nature,

such as printing format

or changing numbering, may be made without board

approval."

If this is important to people I would expect that

we will get proposals as

outlined above.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----

From: Ron Frerichs [ mailto:ronfre-@hotmail.com

<mailto:ronfre-@hotmail.com> ]

Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 15:11 PM

To: jim_fi-@hp.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and

unsportsmanlike conduct

While we're on the subject, any way to add public

urination to that list?

Some of us would like races to be a family event.

But my family doesn't

need to see some guy watering the daisies because

he's too lazy or in too

much of a hurry to wait for a port-a-potty. To tell

you the truth, I would

rather have my 10 year old daughter hear some foul

language than to get a

real life male anatomy lesson.

If you really have to, please take it somewhere away

from the

staging/starting area.

Thanks.

From: "FISCHER,JAMES (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"

<jim_fi-@hp.com>

Reply-To: jim_fi-@hp.com

To: "'ob-@topica.com'" <ob-@topica.com>

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike

conduct

Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 13:02:39 -0700

Greetings,

Apparently, there were some course marshal problems

at the Coast Hills

Classic mountain bike race this past weekend.

Several riders were

misdirected by volunteers who had been last minute

replacements for the

intended trained volunteers. Some of these riders

felt it necessary to be

verbally abusive to downstream volunteers on the

course. This sort of

behavior is out of line and will not be tolerated.

Below is an excerpt from

the OBRA rules regarding this matter and the

associated penalty:

"13.2 - Misconduct may be punished at the discretion

of the Chief Referee.

The forms of

misconduct include, but are not limited to:

- Unsportsmanlike conduct

- Theft

- Fraud (including falsifying information on an

entry)

- Causing any race to have a result other than on

the merits of the

competitors

- Dangerous Riding

- Making an abrupt motion which interferes with the

forward progress of

another rider

- Using foul or abusive language or conduct toward

any individual

- Pushing or holding another rider (whether on a

different team or not)

except in Madison where

riders may only push their teammate.

- Failure to follow a referee's order

- Completing any part of the course without a

bicycle. (It is not required

to ride the bicycle the

entire course.)

- Not maintaining equipment properly so that it is

dangerous (i.e.

insufficient glue on tires, etc.)

- Riding on a race course when not entered in an

event in progress.

- Taking pace from a vehicle or from a rider in a

different race

- Violating any of the OBRA Racing Rules"

"15.1 - A rider or club can be suspended for the

following:

- any violation of rule13.2"

Regards, Jim Fischer

OBRA ATB Official

To respond to the whole group send to

ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to

ob-@teleport.com

=== message truncated ===

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To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

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Shane Young

2002-05-22

I do not believe that rules are the solution. I don't know what it is

like for the road races but mountain bike races have a tendency to have

few port-a-potties, 1 per 100 racers at best 1 per 50 racers, which

around race seems a bit short. Plus the bathrooms are not always where

you have to park. Having more may not be the answer either, but the

right kind would be. Since it is mainly men at the races and most of

the men are just taking a leak, why not have one of the port-a-potties

be an urinal-port-a-potty. One of these allows 6 guys to go at once.

Seems more efficient. Granted I don't know if you can order one of

these from all the suppliers around here, I have only seen one once, but

it made the lines a whole lot less.

Too often we want to regulate against the unwanted action instead of

fixing what is causing the unwanted action.

As for the nudity... It is sad that as Americians we have to be so

uptight about nudity. One thing that I have always liked about the

cycling community is the not being uptight about nudity or at least the

simple fact that we all need to change into and out of our functional

cycling clothes and people are comfortable changing. A solution to the

problem is easy though. Two EZ up canopies each with four walls would

make great changing rooms.

Just my thoughts.

-----Original Message-----

From: mike.m-@obra.org [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]

Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 2:27 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

Public urination could be penalized under the "unsportsman like conduct"

although that is a bit of a stretch. I, personally, would be in favor

of

adding such a prohibition, since public urination is the most common

cause

for loss of race venues in the US. Actually I think that we should

expand

the prohibition to include public nudity and violation of Oregon laws,

not

because I have anything against naked people but because public nudity

(changing clothes) at bike races is a focus of complaints from the

public.

If everyone could just cover up with a towel or something...

The mechanism for modifying the rules is:

"Modification of these rules may be made by vote of the club

representatives, generally at an annual meeting. Proposed rule changes

shall

be presented to OBRA in written form to be voted on by the club

representatives. The OBRA board may in an emergency, or in the case of a

time sensitive matter, make modifications to these rules. Changes to the

rules which are primarily of a housekeeping nature, such as printing

format

or changing numbering, may be made without board approval."

If this is important to people I would expect that we will get proposals

as

outlined above.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----

From: Ron Frerichs [mailto:ronfre-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 15:11 PM

To: jim_fi-@hp.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

While we're on the subject, any way to add public urination to that

list?

Some of us would like races to be a family event. But my family doesn't

need to see some guy watering the daisies because he's too lazy or in

too

much of a hurry to wait for a port-a-potty. To tell you the truth, I

would

rather have my 10 year old daughter hear some foul language than to get

a

real life male anatomy lesson.

If you really have to, please take it somewhere away from the

staging/starting area.

Thanks.

From: "FISCHER,JAMES (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <jim_fi-@hp.com>

Reply-To: jim_fi-@hp.com

To: "'ob-@topica.com'" <ob-@topica.com>

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 13:02:39 -0700

Greetings,

Apparently, there were some course marshal problems at the Coast Hills

Classic mountain bike race this past weekend. Several riders were

misdirected by volunteers who had been last minute replacements for the

intended trained volunteers. Some of these riders felt it necessary to

be

verbally abusive to downstream volunteers on the course. This sort of

behavior is out of line and will not be tolerated. Below is an excerpt

from

the OBRA rules regarding this matter and the associated penalty:

"13.2 - Misconduct may be punished at the discretion of the Chief

Referee.

The forms of

misconduct include, but are not limited to:

- Unsportsmanlike conduct

- Theft

- Fraud (including falsifying information on an entry)

- Causing any race to have a result other than on the merits of the

competitors

- Dangerous Riding

- Making an abrupt motion which interferes with the forward progress of

another rider

- Using foul or abusive language or conduct toward any individual

- Pushing or holding another rider (whether on a different team or not)

except in Madison where

riders may only push their teammate.

- Failure to follow a referee's order

- Completing any part of the course without a bicycle. (It is not

required

to ride the bicycle the

entire course.)

- Not maintaining equipment properly so that it is dangerous (i.e.

insufficient glue on tires, etc.)

- Riding on a race course when not entered in an event in progress.

- Taking pace from a vehicle or from a rider in a different race

- Violating any of the OBRA Racing Rules"

"15.1 - A rider or club can be suspended for the following:

- any violation of rule13.2"

Regards, Jim Fischer

OBRA ATB Official

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

_________________________________________________________________

Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

rick hammel

2002-05-22

"What a piece of work is man! How noble in reason! how

infinite in faculties! in form and moving, how express

and admirable! . . . And yet, to me, what is this

quintessence of dust?"

Being at school and fairly stressed out and sick for

the past two weeks I thought I'd e-mail the whole

group and quote the Bard to express my bitter reaction

to "personal attack" e-mails sent to the entire list.

. . . . if only there had been a rule to stop me.

"quin?tes?sence (Pronunciation: kwin-'te-s&n(t)s):

 2 : the essence of a thing in its purest and most

concentrated form

 3 : the most typical example or representative."

for more cool Shakespeare quotes:

http://www.shakespeare.sk/Quotes/Quotes.html

Thank You.

--- Tim Schauer <TSch-@mackaysposito.com> wrote:

You're actually saying that there are circumstances

where you feel it is

okay to "take a leak", at a race venue (especially

private property

graciously loaned to us) that has been provided to

us as a privilege where

we are guests, rather than wait in line for the

bathroom, like everyone

else?

I mean it is one thing on a ride to stop and run off

into the woods where no

one can see you and there are no bathrooms or

port-a-potties around, but

that isn't what we are talking about here, is it?

What are those circumstances where you feel you

should be able to behave

this way (pee freely), while representing....the

race

promoter,....OBRA,....your team,....our sport? Let's

hear them.....

-Tim Schauer

-----Original Message-----

From: Schreck, George

[mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com]

Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 4:41 PM

To: mike.m-@obra.org; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and

unsportsmanlike conduct

I think there is a point where you go too far to

regulate personal behavior.

Sometimes there are circumstances where that

behavior may be necessary and

if done carefully and appropriately, riders should

not be disqualified. We

have enough rules. What we need is more common

sense and consideration. I

think most people do the best they can, and I think

some people are always

looking for a reason to complain about bike racing.

 George C. Schreck

 Phone: (503) 813-7211

 Fax: (503) 813-7190

-----Original Message-----

From: mike.m-@obra.org [

mailto:mike.m-@obra.org

<mailto:mike.m-@obra.org> ]

Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 3:27 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and

unsportsmanlike conduct

Public urination could be penalized under the

"unsportsman like conduct"

although that is a bit of a stretch. I, personally,

would be in favor of

adding such a prohibition, since public urination is

the most common cause

for loss of race venues in the US. Actually I think

that we should expand

the prohibition to include public nudity and

violation of Oregon laws, not

because I have anything against naked people but

because public nudity

(changing clothes) at bike races is a focus of

complaints from the public.

If everyone could just cover up with a towel or

something...

The mechanism for modifying the rules is:

"Modification of these rules may be made by vote of

the club

representatives, generally at an annual meeting.

Proposed rule changes shall

be presented to OBRA in written form to be voted on

by the club

representatives. The OBRA board may in an emergency,

or in the case of a

time sensitive matter, make modifications to these

rules. Changes to the

rules which are primarily of a housekeeping nature,

such as printing format

or changing numbering, may be made without board

approval."

If this is important to people I would expect that

we will get proposals as

outlined above.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----

From: Ron Frerichs [ mailto:ronfre-@hotmail.com

<mailto:ronfre-@hotmail.com> ]

Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 15:11 PM

To: jim_fi-@hp.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and

unsportsmanlike conduct

While we're on the subject, any way to add public

urination to that list?

Some of us would like races to be a family event.

But my family doesn't

need to see some guy watering the daisies because

he's too lazy or in too

much of a hurry to wait for a port-a-potty. To tell

you the truth, I would

rather have my 10 year old daughter hear some foul

language than to get a

real life male anatomy lesson.

If you really have to, please take it somewhere away

from the

staging/starting area.

Thanks.

From: "FISCHER,JAMES (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"

<jim_fi-@hp.com>

Reply-To: jim_fi-@hp.com

To: "'ob-@topica.com'" <ob-@topica.com>

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike

conduct

Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 13:02:39 -0700

Greetings,

Apparently, there were some course marshal problems

at the Coast Hills

Classic mountain bike race this past weekend.

Several riders were

misdirected by volunteers who had been last minute

replacements for the

intended trained volunteers. Some of these riders

felt it necessary to be

verbally abusive to downstream volunteers on the

course. This sort of

behavior is out of line and will not be tolerated.

Below is an excerpt from

the OBRA rules regarding this matter and the

associated penalty:

"13.2 - Misconduct may be punished at the discretion

of the Chief Referee.

The forms of

misconduct include, but are not limited to:

- Unsportsmanlike conduct

- Theft

- Fraud (including falsifying information on an

entry)

- Causing any race to have a result other than on

the merits of the

competitors

- Dangerous Riding

- Making an abrupt motion which interferes with the

forward progress of

another rider

- Using foul or abusive language or conduct toward

any individual

- Pushing or holding another rider (whether on a

different team or not)

except in Madison where

riders may only push their teammate.

- Failure to follow a referee's order

- Completing any part of the course without a

bicycle. (It is not required

to ride the bicycle the

entire course.)

- Not maintaining equipment properly so that it is

dangerous (i.e.

insufficient glue on tires, etc.)

- Riding on a race course when not entered in an

event in progress.

- Taking pace from a vehicle or from a rider in a

different race

- Violating any of the OBRA Racing Rules"

"15.1 - A rider or club can be suspended for the

following:

- any violation of rule13.2"

Regards, Jim Fischer

OBRA ATB Official

To respond to the whole group send to

ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to

ob-@teleport.com

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience

http://launch.yahoo.com

DaViD AuKeR

2002-05-22

Tim Schauer wrote:

I mean it is one thing on a ride to stop and run off into the woods where no one can see you and there are

no bathrooms or port-a-potties around, but that isn't what we are talking about here, is it?

Not in MY woods, please! You're only fooling yourself when you think

"no one can see you!" Don't go in the woods -- hold it until you get

home...

David

You're actually saying that there are circumstances where you feel it

is okay to "take a leak", at a race venue (especially private property

graciously loaned to us)?that has been provided to?us as a privilege

where we are guests, rather than wait in line for the bathroom, like

everyone else?

?

I mean it is one thing on a ride to stop and run off into the woods

where no one can see you and there are no bathrooms or port-a-potties

around, but that isn't what we are talking about here, is it?

?

What are those circumstances where you feel you should be able to

behave this way (pee freely), while representing....the race

promoter,....OBRA,....your team,....our sport? Let's hear them.....

?

-Tim Schauer

===========================================================

Tim Schauer

2002-05-22

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand

this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C201F8.FDDE0BA0

Content-Type: text/plain;

charset="iso-8859-1"

You're actually saying that there are circumstances where you feel it is

okay to "take a leak", at a race venue (especially private property

graciously loaned to us) that has been provided to us as a privilege where

we are guests, rather than wait in line for the bathroom, like everyone

else?

I mean it is one thing on a ride to stop and run off into the woods where no

one can see you and there are no bathrooms or port-a-potties around, but

that isn't what we are talking about here, is it?

What are those circumstances where you feel you should be able to behave

this way (pee freely), while representing....the race

promoter,....OBRA,....your team,....our sport? Let's hear them.....

-Tim Schauer

-----Original Message-----

From: Schreck, George [mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com]

Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 4:41 PM

To: mike.m-@obra.org; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

I think there is a point where you go too far to regulate personal behavior.

Sometimes there are circumstances where that behavior may be necessary and

if done carefully and appropriately, riders should not be disqualified. We

have enough rules. What we need is more common sense and consideration. I

think most people do the best they can, and I think some people are always

looking for a reason to complain about bike racing.

 George C. Schreck

 Phone: (503) 813-7211

 Fax: (503) 813-7190

-----Original Message-----

From: mike.m-@obra.org [ mailto:mike.m-@obra.org

<mailto:mike.m-@obra.org> ]

Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 3:27 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

Public urination could be penalized under the "unsportsman like conduct"

although that is a bit of a stretch. I, personally, would be in favor of

adding such a prohibition, since public urination is the most common cause

for loss of race venues in the US. Actually I think that we should expand

the prohibition to include public nudity and violation of Oregon laws, not

because I have anything against naked people but because public nudity

(changing clothes) at bike races is a focus of complaints from the public.

If everyone could just cover up with a towel or something...

The mechanism for modifying the rules is:

"Modification of these rules may be made by vote of the club

representatives, generally at an annual meeting. Proposed rule changes shall

be presented to OBRA in written form to be voted on by the club

representatives. The OBRA board may in an emergency, or in the case of a

time sensitive matter, make modifications to these rules. Changes to the

rules which are primarily of a housekeeping nature, such as printing format

or changing numbering, may be made without board approval."

If this is important to people I would expect that we will get proposals as

outlined above.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----

From: Ron Frerichs [ mailto:ronfre-@hotmail.com

<mailto:ronfre-@hotmail.com> ]

Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 15:11 PM

To: jim_fi-@hp.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

While we're on the subject, any way to add public urination to that list?

Some of us would like races to be a family event. But my family doesn't

need to see some guy watering the daisies because he's too lazy or in too

much of a hurry to wait for a port-a-potty. To tell you the truth, I would

rather have my 10 year old daughter hear some foul language than to get a

real life male anatomy lesson.

If you really have to, please take it somewhere away from the

staging/starting area.

Thanks.

From: "FISCHER,JAMES (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <jim_fi-@hp.com>

Reply-To: jim_fi-@hp.com

To: "'ob-@topica.com'" <ob-@topica.com>

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 13:02:39 -0700

Greetings,

Apparently, there were some course marshal problems at the Coast Hills

Classic mountain bike race this past weekend. Several riders were

misdirected by volunteers who had been last minute replacements for the

intended trained volunteers. Some of these riders felt it necessary to be

verbally abusive to downstream volunteers on the course. This sort of

behavior is out of line and will not be tolerated. Below is an excerpt from

the OBRA rules regarding this matter and the associated penalty:

"13.2 - Misconduct may be punished at the discretion of the Chief Referee.

The forms of

misconduct include, but are not limited to:

- Unsportsmanlike conduct

- Theft

- Fraud (including falsifying information on an entry)

- Causing any race to have a result other than on the merits of the

competitors

- Dangerous Riding

- Making an abrupt motion which interferes with the forward progress of

another rider

- Using foul or abusive language or conduct toward any individual

- Pushing or holding another rider (whether on a different team or not)

except in Madison where

riders may only push their teammate.

- Failure to follow a referee's order

- Completing any part of the course without a bicycle. (It is not required

to ride the bicycle the

entire course.)

- Not maintaining equipment properly so that it is dangerous (i.e.

insufficient glue on tires, etc.)

- Riding on a race course when not entered in an event in progress.

- Taking pace from a vehicle or from a rider in a different race

- Violating any of the OBRA Racing Rules"

"15.1 - A rider or club can be suspended for the following:

- any violation of rule13.2"

Regards, Jim Fischer

OBRA ATB Official

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

_________________________________________________________________

Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

<http://messenger.msn.com>

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

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<DIV>You're

actually saying that there are circumstances where you feel it is okay to "take

a leak", at a race venue (especially private property graciously loaned to

us) that has been provided to us as a privilege where we are guests,

rather than wait in line for the bathroom, like everyone

else?</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>I mean

it is one thing on a ride to stop and run off into the woods where no one can

see you and there are no bathrooms or port-a-potties around, but that isn't what

we are talking about here, is it?</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>What

are those circumstances where you feel you should be able to behave this way

(pee freely), while representing....the race promoter,....OBRA,....your

team,....our sport? Let's hear them.....</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>-Tim

Schauer</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: Schreck, George

[mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002

4:41 PM To: mike.m-@obra.org; ob-@topica.com Subject:

RE: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct </DIV>

I think there is a point where you go too far to regulate

personal behavior. Sometimes there are circumstances where that behavior

may be necessary and if done carefully and appropriately, riders should not be

disqualified. We have enough rules. What we need is more common

sense and consideration. I think most people do the best they can, and I

think some people are always looking for a reason to complain about bike

racing.



George C. Schreck 

Phone: (503) 813-7211 

Fax: (503) 813-7190 

-----Original Message----- From:

mike.m-@obra.org [<A

href="mailto:mike.m-@obra.org">mailto:mike.m-@obra.org</A>]

 Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 3:27 PM To: ob-@topica.com Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat]

Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct 

Public urination could be penalized under the "unsportsman

like conduct" although that is a bit of a

stretch. I, personally, would be in favor of adding such a prohibition, since public urination is the most common

cause for loss of race venues in the US.

Actually I think that we should expand the prohibition

to include public nudity and violation of Oregon laws, not because I have anything against naked people but because public

nudity (changing clothes) at bike races is a focus of

complaints from the public. If everyone could just

cover up with a towel or something... 

The mechanism for modifying the rules is: "Modification of these rules may be made by vote of the club

 representatives, generally at an annual meeting. Proposed

rule changes shall be presented to OBRA in written

form to be voted on by the club representatives. The

OBRA board may in an emergency, or in the case of a time sensitive matter, make modifications to these rules. Changes to

the rules which are primarily of a housekeeping

nature, such as printing format or changing numbering,

may be made without board approval." 

If this is important to people I would expect that we will get

proposals as outlined above. 

Mike Murray 

-----Original Message----- From: Ron

Frerichs [<A

href="mailto:ronfre-@hotmail.com">mailto:ronfre-@hotmail.com</A>]

 Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 15:11 PM To: jim_fi-@hp.com; ob-@topica.com Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

 

While we're on the subject, any way to add public urination to

that list? Some of us would like races to be a family

event. But my family doesn't need to see some

guy watering the daisies because he's too lazy or in too much of a hurry to wait for a port-a-potty. To tell you the

truth, I would rather have my 10 year old daughter

hear some foul language than to get a real life male

anatomy lesson. 

If you really have to, please take it somewhere away from

the staging/starting area. 

Thanks. 

From: "FISCHER,JAMES (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"

<jim_fi-@hp.com> Reply-To:

jim_fi-@hp.com To: "'ob-@topica.com'"

<ob-@topica.com> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Profanity

and unsportsmanlike conduct Date: Tue, 21 May 2002

13:02:39 -0700 

Greetings, 

Apparently, there were some course marshal problems at the

Coast Hills Classic mountain bike race this past

weekend. Several riders were misdirected by

volunteers who had been last minute replacements for the intended trained volunteers. Some of these riders felt it

necessary to be verbally abusive to downstream

volunteers on the course. This sort of behavior

is out of line and will not be tolerated. Below is an excerpt

from the OBRA rules regarding this matter and the

associated penalty: 

"13.2 - Misconduct may be punished at the discretion of the

Chief Referee. The forms of misconduct include, but are not limited to: -

Unsportsmanlike conduct - Theft - Fraud (including falsifying information on an entry) - Causing any race to have a result other than on the merits of

the competitors - Dangerous

Riding - Making an abrupt motion which interferes with

the forward progress of another rider - Using foul or abusive language or conduct toward any

individual - Pushing or holding another rider (whether

on a different team or not) except in Madison

where riders may only push their teammate.

 - Failure to follow a referee's order - Completing any part of the course without a bicycle. (It is not

required to ride the bicycle the entire course.) - Not maintaining equipment

properly so that it is dangerous (i.e. insufficient

glue on tires, etc.) - Riding on a race course when

not entered in an event in progress. - Taking pace

from a vehicle or from a rider in a different race -

Violating any of the OBRA Racing Rules" 

"15.1 - A rider or club can be suspended for the

following: - any violation of rule13.2" 

Regards, Jim Fischer OBRA ATB

Official 

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

 To respond to the list manager send to

ob-@teleport.com To unsubscribe send to

obra-uns-@topica.com 

_________________________________________________________________

 Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <A target=_blank

href="http://messenger.msn.com">http://messenger.msn.com</A> 

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

 To respond to the list manager send to

ob-@teleport.com To unsubscribe send to

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To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

 To respond to the list manager send to

ob-@teleport.com To unsubscribe send to

obra-uns-@topica.com 

 <PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This

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unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,

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Schreck, George

2002-05-22

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I think there is a point where you go too far to regulate personal behavior.

Sometimes there are circumstances where that behavior may be necessary and

if done carefully and appropriately, riders should not be disqualified. We

have enough rules. What we need is more common sense and consideration. I

think most people do the best they can, and I think some people are always

looking for a reason to complain about bike racing.

 George C. Schreck

 Phone: (503) 813-7211

 Fax: (503) 813-7190

-----Original Message-----

From: mike.m-@obra.org [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]

Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 3:27 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

Public urination could be penalized under the "unsportsman like conduct"

although that is a bit of a stretch. I, personally, would be in favor of

adding such a prohibition, since public urination is the most common cause

for loss of race venues in the US. Actually I think that we should expand

the prohibition to include public nudity and violation of Oregon laws, not

because I have anything against naked people but because public nudity

(changing clothes) at bike races is a focus of complaints from the public.

If everyone could just cover up with a towel or something...

The mechanism for modifying the rules is:

"Modification of these rules may be made by vote of the club

representatives, generally at an annual meeting. Proposed rule changes shall

be presented to OBRA in written form to be voted on by the club

representatives. The OBRA board may in an emergency, or in the case of a

time sensitive matter, make modifications to these rules. Changes to the

rules which are primarily of a housekeeping nature, such as printing format

or changing numbering, may be made without board approval."

If this is important to people I would expect that we will get proposals as

outlined above.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----

From: Ron Frerichs [mailto:ronfre-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 15:11 PM

To: jim_fi-@hp.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

While we're on the subject, any way to add public urination to that list?

Some of us would like races to be a family event. But my family doesn't

need to see some guy watering the daisies because he's too lazy or in too

much of a hurry to wait for a port-a-potty. To tell you the truth, I would

rather have my 10 year old daughter hear some foul language than to get a

real life male anatomy lesson.

If you really have to, please take it somewhere away from the

staging/starting area.

Thanks.

From: "FISCHER,JAMES (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <jim_fi-@hp.com>

Reply-To: jim_fi-@hp.com

To: "'ob-@topica.com'" <ob-@topica.com>

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 13:02:39 -0700

Greetings,

Apparently, there were some course marshal problems at the Coast Hills

Classic mountain bike race this past weekend. Several riders were

misdirected by volunteers who had been last minute replacements for the

intended trained volunteers. Some of these riders felt it necessary to be

verbally abusive to downstream volunteers on the course. This sort of

behavior is out of line and will not be tolerated. Below is an excerpt from

the OBRA rules regarding this matter and the associated penalty:

"13.2 - Misconduct may be punished at the discretion of the Chief Referee.

The forms of

misconduct include, but are not limited to:

- Unsportsmanlike conduct

- Theft

- Fraud (including falsifying information on an entry)

- Causing any race to have a result other than on the merits of the

competitors

- Dangerous Riding

- Making an abrupt motion which interferes with the forward progress of

another rider

- Using foul or abusive language or conduct toward any individual

- Pushing or holding another rider (whether on a different team or not)

except in Madison where

riders may only push their teammate.

- Failure to follow a referee's order

- Completing any part of the course without a bicycle. (It is not required

to ride the bicycle the

entire course.)

- Not maintaining equipment properly so that it is dangerous (i.e.

insufficient glue on tires, etc.)

- Riding on a race course when not entered in an event in progress.

- Taking pace from a vehicle or from a rider in a different race

- Violating any of the OBRA Racing Rules"

"15.1 - A rider or club can be suspended for the following:

- any violation of rule13.2"

Regards, Jim Fischer

OBRA ATB Official

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

_________________________________________________________________

Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

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I think there is a point where you go too far to regulate personal behavior. Sometimes there are circumstances where that behavior may be necessary and if done carefully and appropriately, riders should not be disqualified. We have enough rules. What we need is more common sense and consideration. I think most people do the best they can, and I think some people are always looking for a reason to complain about bike racing.

 George C. Schreck

 Phone: (503) 813-7211

 Fax: (503) 813-7190



 

-----Original Message-----

 From: mike.m-@obra.org [<A HREF="mailto:mike.m-@obra.org">mailto:mike.m-@obra.org</A>]

 Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 3:27 PM

 To: ob-@topica.com

 Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct



 

Public urination could be penalized under the "unsportsman like conduct"

 although that is a bit of a stretch. I, personally, would be in favor of

 adding such a prohibition, since public urination is the most common cause

 for loss of race venues in the US. Actually I think that we should expand

 the prohibition to include public nudity and violation of Oregon laws, not

 because I have anything against naked people but because public nudity

 (changing clothes) at bike races is a focus of complaints from the public.

 If everyone could just cover up with a towel or something...



The mechanism for modifying the rules is:

 "Modification of these rules may be made by vote of the club

 representatives, generally at an annual meeting. Proposed rule changes shall

 be presented to OBRA in written form to be voted on by the club

 representatives. The OBRA board may in an emergency, or in the case of a

 time sensitive matter, make modifications to these rules. Changes to the

 rules which are primarily of a housekeeping nature, such as printing format

 or changing numbering, may be made without board approval."



If this is important to people I would expect that we will get proposals as

 outlined above.



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

 From: Ron Frerichs [<A HREF="mailto:ronfre-@hotmail.com">mailto:ronfre-@hotmail.com</A>]

 Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 15:11 PM

 To: jim_fi-@hp.com; ob-@topica.com

 Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct



 

While we're on the subject, any way to add public urination to that list?

 Some of us would like races to be a family event. But my family doesn't

 need to see some guy watering the daisies because he's too lazy or in too

 much of a hurry to wait for a port-a-potty. To tell you the truth, I would

 rather have my 10 year old daughter hear some foul language than to get a

 real life male anatomy lesson.



If you really have to, please take it somewhere away from the

 staging/starting area.



Thanks.



 

From: "FISCHER,JAMES (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <jim_fi-@hp.com>

 Reply-To: jim_fi-@hp.com

 To: "'ob-@topica.com'" <ob-@topica.com>

 Subject: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

 Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 13:02:39 -0700



Greetings,



Apparently, there were some course marshal problems at the Coast Hills

 Classic mountain bike race this past weekend. Several riders were

 misdirected by volunteers who had been last minute replacements for the

 intended trained volunteers. Some of these riders felt it necessary to be

 verbally abusive to downstream volunteers on the course. This sort of

 behavior is out of line and will not be tolerated. Below is an excerpt from

 the OBRA rules regarding this matter and the associated penalty:



"13.2 - Misconduct may be punished at the discretion of the Chief Referee.

 The forms of

 misconduct include, but are not limited to:

 - Unsportsmanlike conduct

 - Theft

 - Fraud (including falsifying information on an entry)

 - Causing any race to have a result other than on the merits of the

 competitors

 - Dangerous Riding

 - Making an abrupt motion which interferes with the forward progress of

 another rider

 - Using foul or abusive language or conduct toward any individual

 - Pushing or holding another rider (whether on a different team or not)

 except in Madison where

 riders may only push their teammate.

 - Failure to follow a referee's order

 - Completing any part of the course without a bicycle. (It is not required

 to ride the bicycle the

 entire course.)

 - Not maintaining equipment properly so that it is dangerous (i.e.

 insufficient glue on tires, etc.)

 - Riding on a race course when not entered in an event in progress.

 - Taking pace from a vehicle or from a rider in a different race

 - Violating any of the OBRA Racing Rules"



"15.1 - A rider or club can be suspended for the following:

 - any violation of rule13.2"



Regards, Jim Fischer

 OBRA ATB Official



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

 To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

 To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



 

 

_________________________________________________________________

 Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <A HREF="http://messenger.msn.com" TARGET="_blank">http://messenger.msn.com</A>



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

 To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

 To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

 To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

 To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com





 

 

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mike.m-@obra.org

2002-05-21

Public urination could be penalized under the "unsportsman like conduct"

although that is a bit of a stretch. I, personally, would be in favor of

adding such a prohibition, since public urination is the most common cause

for loss of race venues in the US. Actually I think that we should expand

the prohibition to include public nudity and violation of Oregon laws, not

because I have anything against naked people but because public nudity

(changing clothes) at bike races is a focus of complaints from the public.

If everyone could just cover up with a towel or something...

The mechanism for modifying the rules is:

"Modification of these rules may be made by vote of the club

representatives, generally at an annual meeting. Proposed rule changes shall

be presented to OBRA in written form to be voted on by the club

representatives. The OBRA board may in an emergency, or in the case of a

time sensitive matter, make modifications to these rules. Changes to the

rules which are primarily of a housekeeping nature, such as printing format

or changing numbering, may be made without board approval."

If this is important to people I would expect that we will get proposals as

outlined above.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----

From: Ron Frerichs [mailto:ronfre-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 15:11 PM

To: jim_fi-@hp.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

While we're on the subject, any way to add public urination to that list?

Some of us would like races to be a family event. But my family doesn't

need to see some guy watering the daisies because he's too lazy or in too

much of a hurry to wait for a port-a-potty. To tell you the truth, I would

rather have my 10 year old daughter hear some foul language than to get a

real life male anatomy lesson.

If you really have to, please take it somewhere away from the

staging/starting area.

Thanks.

From: "FISCHER,JAMES (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <jim_fi-@hp.com>

Reply-To: jim_fi-@hp.com

To: "'ob-@topica.com'" <ob-@topica.com>

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 13:02:39 -0700

Greetings,

Apparently, there were some course marshal problems at the Coast Hills

Classic mountain bike race this past weekend. Several riders were

misdirected by volunteers who had been last minute replacements for the

intended trained volunteers. Some of these riders felt it necessary to be

verbally abusive to downstream volunteers on the course. This sort of

behavior is out of line and will not be tolerated. Below is an excerpt from

the OBRA rules regarding this matter and the associated penalty:

"13.2 - Misconduct may be punished at the discretion of the Chief Referee.

The forms of

misconduct include, but are not limited to:

- Unsportsmanlike conduct

- Theft

- Fraud (including falsifying information on an entry)

- Causing any race to have a result other than on the merits of the

competitors

- Dangerous Riding

- Making an abrupt motion which interferes with the forward progress of

another rider

- Using foul or abusive language or conduct toward any individual

- Pushing or holding another rider (whether on a different team or not)

except in Madison where

riders may only push their teammate.

- Failure to follow a referee's order

- Completing any part of the course without a bicycle. (It is not required

to ride the bicycle the

entire course.)

- Not maintaining equipment properly so that it is dangerous (i.e.

insufficient glue on tires, etc.)

- Riding on a race course when not entered in an event in progress.

- Taking pace from a vehicle or from a rider in a different race

- Violating any of the OBRA Racing Rules"

"15.1 - A rider or club can be suspended for the following:

- any violation of rule13.2"

Regards, Jim Fischer

OBRA ATB Official

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

_________________________________________________________________

Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Tim Schauer

2002-05-21

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on that topic, we are "guests" on private property and in local communities

at most of our race venues. Good venues with good facilities (parking,

access, bathrooms, etc are hard to come by. We should be good guests. Does

OBRA mandate a minimum number of port-a-potties? It might be a good standard

to adopt.

-Tim

-----Original Message-----

From: Ron Frerichs [mailto:ronfre-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 3:11 PM

To: jim_fi-@hp.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

While we're on the subject, any way to add public urination to that list?

Some of us would like races to be a family event. But my family doesn't

need to see some guy watering the daisies because he's too lazy or in too

much of a hurry to wait for a port-a-potty. To tell you the truth, I would

rather have my 10 year old daughter hear some foul language than to get a

real life male anatomy lesson.

If you really have to, please take it somewhere away from the

staging/starting area.

Thanks.

From: "FISCHER,JAMES (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <jim_fi-@hp.com>

Reply-To: jim_fi-@hp.com

To: "'ob-@topica.com'" <ob-@topica.com>

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 13:02:39 -0700

Greetings,

Apparently, there were some course marshal problems at the Coast Hills

Classic mountain bike race this past weekend. Several riders were

misdirected by volunteers who had been last minute replacements for the

intended trained volunteers. Some of these riders felt it necessary to be

verbally abusive to downstream volunteers on the course. This sort of

behavior is out of line and will not be tolerated. Below is an excerpt from

the OBRA rules regarding this matter and the associated penalty:

"13.2 - Misconduct may be punished at the discretion of the Chief Referee.

The forms of

misconduct include, but are not limited to:

- Unsportsmanlike conduct

- Theft

- Fraud (including falsifying information on an entry)

- Causing any race to have a result other than on the merits of the

competitors

- Dangerous Riding

- Making an abrupt motion which interferes with the forward progress of

another rider

- Using foul or abusive language or conduct toward any individual

- Pushing or holding another rider (whether on a different team or not)

except in Madison where

riders may only push their teammate.

- Failure to follow a referee's order

- Completing any part of the course without a bicycle. (It is not required

to ride the bicycle the

entire course.)

- Not maintaining equipment properly so that it is dangerous (i.e.

insufficient glue on tires, etc.)

- Riding on a race course when not entered in an event in progress.

- Taking pace from a vehicle or from a rider in a different race

- Violating any of the OBRA Racing Rules"

"15.1 - A rider or club can be suspended for the following:

- any violation of rule13.2"

Regards, Jim Fischer

OBRA ATB Official

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

_________________________________________________________________

Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

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<TITLE>RE: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct</TITLE>

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on that topic, we are "guests" on private property and in local communities at most of our race venues. Good venues with good facilities (parking, access, bathrooms, etc are hard to come by. We should be good guests. Does OBRA mandate a minimum number of port-a-potties? It might be a good standard to adopt.

-Tim



-----Original Message-----

 From: Ron Frerichs [<A HREF="mailto:ronfre-@hotmail.com">mailto:ronfre-@hotmail.com</A>]

 Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 3:11 PM

 To: jim_fi-@hp.com; ob-@topica.com

 Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct



 

While we're on the subject, any way to add public urination to that list? 

 Some of us would like races to be a family event. But my family doesn't 

 need to see some guy watering the daisies because he's too lazy or in too 

 much of a hurry to wait for a port-a-potty. To tell you the truth, I would 

 rather have my 10 year old daughter hear some foul language than to get a 

 real life male anatomy lesson.



If you really have to, please take it somewhere away from the 

 staging/starting area.



Thanks.



 

From: "FISCHER,JAMES (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <jim_fi-@hp.com>

 Reply-To: jim_fi-@hp.com

 To: "'ob-@topica.com'" <ob-@topica.com>

 Subject: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

 Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 13:02:39 -0700



Greetings,



Apparently, there were some course marshal problems at the Coast Hills

 Classic mountain bike race this past weekend. Several riders were

 misdirected by volunteers who had been last minute replacements for the

 intended trained volunteers. Some of these riders felt it necessary to be

 verbally abusive to downstream volunteers on the course. This sort of

 behavior is out of line and will not be tolerated. Below is an excerpt from

 the OBRA rules regarding this matter and the associated penalty:



"13.2 - Misconduct may be punished at the discretion of the Chief Referee.

 The forms of

 misconduct include, but are not limited to:

 - Unsportsmanlike conduct

 - Theft

 - Fraud (including falsifying information on an entry)

 - Causing any race to have a result other than on the merits of the

 competitors

 - Dangerous Riding

 - Making an abrupt motion which interferes with the forward progress of

 another rider

 - Using foul or abusive language or conduct toward any individual

 - Pushing or holding another rider (whether on a different team or not)

 except in Madison where

 riders may only push their teammate.

 - Failure to follow a referee's order

 - Completing any part of the course without a bicycle. (It is not required

 to ride the bicycle the

 entire course.)

 - Not maintaining equipment properly so that it is dangerous (i.e.

 insufficient glue on tires, etc.)

 - Riding on a race course when not entered in an event in progress.

 - Taking pace from a vehicle or from a rider in a different race

 - Violating any of the OBRA Racing Rules"



"15.1 - A rider or club can be suspended for the following:

 - any violation of rule13.2"



Regards, Jim Fischer

 OBRA ATB Official



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

 To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

 To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



 

 

_________________________________________________________________

 Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <A HREF="http://messenger.msn.com" TARGET="_blank">http://messenger.msn.com</A>



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

 To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

 To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com





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------_=_NextPart_001_01C20115.271E3FB0--

Ron Frerichs

2002-05-21

While we're on the subject, any way to add public urination to that list?

Some of us would like races to be a family event. But my family doesn't

need to see some guy watering the daisies because he's too lazy or in too

much of a hurry to wait for a port-a-potty. To tell you the truth, I would

rather have my 10 year old daughter hear some foul language than to get a

real life male anatomy lesson.

If you really have to, please take it somewhere away from the

staging/starting area.

Thanks.

From: "FISCHER,JAMES (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <jim_fi-@hp.com>

Reply-To: jim_fi-@hp.com

To: "'ob-@topica.com'" <ob-@topica.com>

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Profanity and unsportsmanlike conduct

Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 13:02:39 -0700

Greetings,

Apparently, there were some course marshal problems at the Coast Hills

Classic mountain bike race this past weekend. Several riders were

misdirected by volunteers who had been last minute replacements for the

intended trained volunteers. Some of these riders felt it necessary to be

verbally abusive to downstream volunteers on the course. This sort of

behavior is out of line and will not be tolerated. Below is an excerpt from

the OBRA rules regarding this matter and the associated penalty:

"13.2 - Misconduct may be punished at the discretion of the Chief Referee.

The forms of

misconduct include, but are not limited to:

- Unsportsmanlike conduct

- Theft

- Fraud (including falsifying information on an entry)

- Causing any race to have a result other than on the merits of the

competitors

- Dangerous Riding

- Making an abrupt motion which interferes with the forward progress of

another rider

- Using foul or abusive language or conduct toward any individual

- Pushing or holding another rider (whether on a different team or not)

except in Madison where

riders may only push their teammate.

- Failure to follow a referee's order

- Completing any part of the course without a bicycle. (It is not required

to ride the bicycle the

entire course.)

- Not maintaining equipment properly so that it is dangerous (i.e.

insufficient glue on tires, etc.)

- Riding on a race course when not entered in an event in progress.

- Taking pace from a vehicle or from a rider in a different race

- Violating any of the OBRA Racing Rules"

"15.1 - A rider or club can be suspended for the following:

- any violation of rule13.2"

Regards, Jim Fischer

OBRA ATB Official

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

_________________________________________________________________

Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

FISCHER,JAMES (HP-Corvallis,ex1)

2002-05-21

Greetings,

Apparently, there were some course marshal problems at the Coast Hills

Classic mountain bike race this past weekend. Several riders were

misdirected by volunteers who had been last minute replacements for the

intended trained volunteers. Some of these riders felt it necessary to be

verbally abusive to downstream volunteers on the course. This sort of

behavior is out of line and will not be tolerated. Below is an excerpt from

the OBRA rules regarding this matter and the associated penalty:

"13.2 - Misconduct may be punished at the discretion of the Chief Referee.

The forms of

misconduct include, but are not limited to:

- Unsportsmanlike conduct

- Theft

- Fraud (including falsifying information on an entry)

- Causing any race to have a result other than on the merits of the

competitors

- Dangerous Riding

- Making an abrupt motion which interferes with the forward progress of

another rider

- Using foul or abusive language or conduct toward any individual

- Pushing or holding another rider (whether on a different team or not)

except in Madison where

riders may only push their teammate.

- Failure to follow a referee's order

- Completing any part of the course without a bicycle. (It is not required

to ride the bicycle the

entire course.)

- Not maintaining equipment properly so that it is dangerous (i.e.

insufficient glue on tires, etc.)

- Riding on a race course when not entered in an event in progress.

- Taking pace from a vehicle or from a rider in a different race

- Violating any of the OBRA Racing Rules"

"15.1 - A rider or club can be suspended for the following:

- any violation of rule13.2"

Regards, Jim Fischer

OBRA ATB Official

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