racing/riding with insurance (Was: CrossNats crash)

Mike Murray

2009-12-16

The pre-existing condition exclusion is a serious problem and something that needs to be addressed in reforming health care. It is not, however, the reason why many young healthy people are not insured. Neither is the cost of coverage. Most frequently it is because they just never looked into buying it.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: b hamon
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:10:41
To:
Subject: [OBRA Chat] racing/riding with insurance (Was: CrossNats crash)

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T. Kenji Sugahara

2009-12-16

FYI: Adventure Advocates is between $27 and $46 per month for a individual.

http://www.adventureadvocates.com/benefits.html

(Note- OBRA does not receive any remuneration from Adventure Advocates)

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 5:01 PM, david baker wrote:

> If you have $200 per month of "disposable" income and are considering
> whether to buy health insurance or start a retirement fund you may consider
> that you can make withdrawals from an IRA for health costs that exceed 7.5
> percent of your gross income. So it's kind of like an insurance policy but
> your limited by the balance of your retirement funds and you would be
> spending your retirement funds. Not real smart but it would not be real
> smart to have no retirement funds either. So in a pinch I think you are
> better off with the IRA.
> I think it's true that most of us could decide too not race/ride bikes and
> save $200 per month and have both insurance and an IRA but for me cycling is
> kind of a requirement. I stopped riding about a month ago and since then
> have spent more money on other things needed to keep me sane. Drugs,
> therapy, yoga, books, time off work due to insanity, etc. So I did not save
> any money. Actually it might be cheaper to be on the bike. Maybe I am an
> exception but cycling is kind of like a health policy in itself. Both mental
> and physical.
> I think everyone needs to consider all of the facts and make a decision
> for themselves. It really sucks we even have to think this way. Health care
> should be available to all. There are so much more important things to focus
> on in life. Like letting go of fear. These issues just perpetuate fear and
> sadness.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Robert Anderson
> *To:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Cc:* b hamon
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 16, 2009 3:53 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] racing/riding with insurance (Was: CrossNats
> crash)
>
> It's unfortunate that affordable insurance is not available to all. It is
> unfortunate that someone such as yourself was turned down by insurance
> companies. Given the option to buy health insurance or not, I would highly
> recommend buying it. It has been my experience that if you ride a bike, you
> will crash. If you have already had the misfortune of crashing, you know how
> quickly things can happen. One second you're riding, the next you're on the
> ground. It's not hard to rack up a huge pile of medical bills. I crashed in
> a race a few years back and broke my collarbone and separated my AC joint.
> Not that big of a deal, no surgery, just PT. I spent about $2k out of
> pocket, and I have pretty good insurance. Without insurance it would have
> been closer to $20k out of pocket. Financially, for me, it's cheaper to have
> health insurance.
>
> Also, nobody is requiring that racers have health insurance. Strongly
> encouraging racers to have health insurance? Strongly discouraging people
> from racing without health insurance? Absolutely.
>
> -Rob Anderson
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 3:10 PM, b hamon wrote:
>
>> While I appreciate the perspective of those who strongly advise against
>> racing or riding recreationally without health insurance, let's consider
>> another perspective.
>>
>> The fact is that a great many amateur bicycle racers at the most
>> grass-roots, entry levels of the sport do not have and cannot obtain health
>> insurance. Some can't get it because they can't afford it. Others can't get
>> it because preexisting conditions or family health histories have rendered
>> them "uninsurable".
>>
>> As someone who has been turned down by six different providers for a
>> preexisting condition, I've been told more than once by various doctors and
>> insurance agents that I shouldn't even consider riding my bicycle for
>> transportation (much less racing or riding recreationally) because if I got
>> hurt and required medical care I couldn't pay for, I'd be placing an unfair
>> burden on everyone else. The fact is that, by making it impossible for me to
>> get health coverage, the system is placing an equally unfair burden on me.
>> (Never mind that I ride for transportation because car ownership is
>> unaffordable; or that a life that revolves around daily bike-riding is a
>> great form of preventative medicine and keeps health care costs lower for
>> everyone.).
>>
>> Asking bike racers to abstain from the sport until they can get health
>> insurance would cut the ranks of amateur racers by at least half, and would
>> ultimately hurt the sport by reinforcing its reputation as an activity
>> suitable only for the well-off.
>> (It's worth remembering that, until well past the middle of the last
>> century, most professional bike racers in Europe usually came from the ranks
>> of the very poor.)
>>
>> It comes down to choices. Either we do the best we can with the broken
>> system we have and then we get on with our lives; or we cower in dark
>> corners, stay locked in our homes and live in fear of making the slightest
>> wrong move because we cannot get health insurance. Life is too short for me
>> to live in that much fear, so I'll stay on my bike.
>>
>> Beth Hamon
>>
>> http://bikelovejones.livejournal.com
>> http://veloquent.blogspot.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
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>
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david baker

2009-12-16

If you have $200 per month of "disposable" income and are considering whether to buy health insurance or start a retirement fund you may consider that you can make withdrawals from an IRA for health costs that exceed 7.5 percent of your gross income. So it's kind of like an insurance policy but your limited by the balance of your retirement funds and you would be spending your retirement funds. Not real smart but it would not be real smart to have no retirement funds either. So in a pinch I think you are better off with the IRA.
I think it's true that most of us could decide too not race/ride bikes and save $200 per month and have both insurance and an IRA but for me cycling is kind of a requirement. I stopped riding about a month ago and since then have spent more money on other things needed to keep me sane. Drugs, therapy, yoga, books, time off work due to insanity, etc. So I did not save any money. Actually it might be cheaper to be on the bike. Maybe I am an exception but cycling is kind of like a health policy in itself. Both mental and physical.
I think everyone needs to consider all of the facts and make a decision for themselves. It really sucks we even have to think this way. Health care should be available to all. There are so much more important things to focus on in life. Like letting go of fear. These issues just perpetuate fear and sadness.

----- Original Message -----
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Anderson
To: obra@list.obra.org
Cc: b hamon
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] racing/riding with insurance (Was: CrossNats crash)

It's unfortunate that affordable insurance is not available to all. It is unfortunate that someone such as yourself was turned down by insurance companies. Given the option to buy health insurance or not, I would highly recommend buying it. It has been my experience that if you ride a bike, you will crash. If you have already had the misfortune of crashing, you know how quickly things can happen. One second you're riding, the next you're on the ground. It's not hard to rack up a huge pile of medical bills. I crashed in a race a few years back and broke my collarbone and separated my AC joint. Not that big of a deal, no surgery, just PT. I spent about $2k out of pocket, and I have pretty good insurance. Without insurance it would have been closer to $20k out of pocket. Financially, for me, it's cheaper to have health insurance.

Also, nobody is requiring that racers have health insurance. Strongly encouraging racers to have health insurance? Strongly discouraging people from racing without health insurance? Absolutely.

-Rob Anderson

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 3:10 PM, b hamon wrote:

While I appreciate the perspective of those who strongly advise against racing or riding recreationally without health insurance, let's consider another perspective.

The fact is that a great many amateur bicycle racers at the most grass-roots, entry levels of the sport do not have and cannot obtain health insurance. Some can't get it because they can't afford it. Others can't get it because preexisting conditions or family health histories have rendered them "uninsurable".

As someone who has been turned down by six different providers for a preexisting condition, I've been told more than once by various doctors and insurance agents that I shouldn't even consider riding my bicycle for transportation (much less racing or riding recreationally) because if I got hurt and required medical care I couldn't pay for, I'd be placing an unfair burden on everyone else. The fact is that, by making it impossible for me to get health coverage, the system is placing an equally unfair burden on me. (Never mind that I ride for transportation because car ownership is unaffordable; or that a life that revolves around daily bike-riding is a great form of preventative medicine and keeps health care costs lower for everyone.).

Asking bike racers to abstain from the sport until they can get health insurance would cut the ranks of amateur racers by at least half, and would ultimately hurt the sport by reinforcing its reputation as an activity suitable only for the well-off.
(It's worth remembering that, until well past the middle of the last century, most professional bike racers in Europe usually came from the ranks of the very poor.)

It comes down to choices. Either we do the best we can with the broken system we have and then we get on with our lives; or we cower in dark corners, stay locked in our homes and live in fear of making the slightest wrong move because we cannot get health insurance. Life is too short for me to live in that much fear, so I'll stay on my bike.

Beth Hamon

http://bikelovejones.livejournal.com
http://veloquent.blogspot.com

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obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Robert Anderson

2009-12-16

It's unfortunate that affordable insurance is not available to all. It is
unfortunate that someone such as yourself was turned down by insurance
companies. Given the option to buy health insurance or not, I would highly
recommend buying it. It has been my experience that if you ride a bike, you
will crash. If you have already had the misfortune of crashing, you know how
quickly things can happen. One second you're riding, the next you're on the
ground. It's not hard to rack up a huge pile of medical bills. I crashed in
a race a few years back and broke my collarbone and separated my AC joint.
Not that big of a deal, no surgery, just PT. I spent about $2k out of
pocket, and I have pretty good insurance. Without insurance it would have
been closer to $20k out of pocket. Financially, for me, it's cheaper to have
health insurance.

Also, nobody is requiring that racers have health insurance. Strongly
encouraging racers to have health insurance? Strongly discouraging people
from racing without health insurance? Absolutely.

-Rob Anderson

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 3:10 PM, b hamon wrote:

> While I appreciate the perspective of those who strongly advise against
> racing or riding recreationally without health insurance, let's consider
> another perspective.
>
> The fact is that a great many amateur bicycle racers at the most
> grass-roots, entry levels of the sport do not have and cannot obtain health
> insurance. Some can't get it because they can't afford it. Others can't get
> it because preexisting conditions or family health histories have rendered
> them "uninsurable".
>
> As someone who has been turned down by six different providers for a
> preexisting condition, I've been told more than once by various doctors and
> insurance agents that I shouldn't even consider riding my bicycle for
> transportation (much less racing or riding recreationally) because if I got
> hurt and required medical care I couldn't pay for, I'd be placing an unfair
> burden on everyone else. The fact is that, by making it impossible for me to
> get health coverage, the system is placing an equally unfair burden on me.
> (Never mind that I ride for transportation because car ownership is
> unaffordable; or that a life that revolves around daily bike-riding is a
> great form of preventative medicine and keeps health care costs lower for
> everyone.).
>
> Asking bike racers to abstain from the sport until they can get health
> insurance would cut the ranks of amateur racers by at least half, and would
> ultimately hurt the sport by reinforcing its reputation as an activity
> suitable only for the well-off.
> (It's worth remembering that, until well past the middle of the last
> century, most professional bike racers in Europe usually came from the ranks
> of the very poor.)
>
> It comes down to choices. Either we do the best we can with the broken
> system we have and then we get on with our lives; or we cower in dark
> corners, stay locked in our homes and live in fear of making the slightest
> wrong move because we cannot get health insurance. Life is too short for me
> to live in that much fear, so I'll stay on my bike.
>
> Beth Hamon
>
> http://bikelovejones.livejournal.com
> http://veloquent.blogspot.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


b hamon

2009-12-16

While I appreciate the perspective of those who strongly advise against racing or riding recreationally without health insurance, let's consider another perspective.

The fact is that a great many amateur bicycle racers at the most grass-roots, entry levels of the sport do not have and cannot obtain health insurance. Some can't get it because they can't afford it. Others can't get it because preexisting conditions or family health histories have rendered them "uninsurable".

As someone who has been turned down by six different providers for a preexisting condition, I've been told more than once by various doctors and insurance agents that I shouldn't even consider riding my bicycle for transportation (much less racing or riding recreationally) because if I got hurt and required medical care I couldn't pay for, I'd be placing an unfair burden on everyone else. The fact is that, by making it impossible for me to get health coverage, the system is placing an equally unfair burden on me. (Never mind that I ride for transportation because car ownership is unaffordable; or that a life that revolves around daily bike-riding is a great form of preventative medicine and keeps health care costs lower for everyone.).

Asking bike racers to abstain from the sport until they can get health insurance would cut the ranks of amateur racers by at least half, and would ultimately hurt the sport by reinforcing its reputation as an activity suitable only for the well-off.
(It's worth remembering that, until well past the middle of the last century, most professional bike racers in Europe usually came from the ranks of the very poor.)

It comes down to choices. Either we do the best we can with the broken
system we have and then we get on with our lives; or we cower in dark
corners, stay locked in our homes and live in fear of making the slightest wrong move because we
cannot get health insurance. Life is too short for me to live in that much fear, so I'll stay on my bike.

Beth Hamon

http://bikelovejones.livejournal.com

http://veloquent.blogspot.com