Re: self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance (Was:CrossNats crash)

Mike Murray

2009-12-17

Not that the LifeFlight deal is a bad thing (it is actually a good deal) the
chance that you will need LifeFlight is small. We have only flown 2-3
people in the past 25+ years. We do, however, put a lot of people in AMR
ambulances. As Candi has mentioned here before, AMR has a similar deal.
They do not market it. I believe they call it their ParaMed program. If
you call them you can get info. The membership will make it so that they
will transport you for insurance covered costs only, if needed.

Mike Murray

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Jess Mace
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 10:33 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance
(Was:CrossNats crash)

Exactly. While we're on the topic of insurance and bike racing.this just
came out.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34419018/ns/health-health_care/

I would suggest everyone involved in road racing consider this:
$45-65$/year (the price of 2 OBRA races)

http://www.lifeflight.org/membership/

This isn't about blaming anyone, it's about financially covering yourself
and your family while we partake in a very risky sport

of which we don't always have control of the outcome.

Jess Mace, MPH, CCRP

Clinical Outcomes Research - Oregon Sinus Center

Department of Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery

Oregon Health & Science University

503.494.5886

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Mark J. Ginsberg
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 10:03 AM
To: l j; mike.murray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance
(Was:CrossNats crash)

it is that those with insurance have companies that have negotiated for them
to pay less!

Mark J. Ginsberg
Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
Attorneys At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

_____

From: l j
To: mike.murray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 9:57:36 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance
(Was:CrossNats crash)

So why is it that those without insurance have to pay more?
Lonnie Johnson
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> From: mike.murray@obra.org
> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 03:39:40 +0000
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance
(Was:CrossNats crash)
>
> Oregon has a program for insuring people who have been unable to obtain
insurance commercially however the premiums are high compared to regular
insurance.
>
> Liability is rarely an issue for cyclists since they rarely cause damage
to others.
>
> People who do not have insurance are, by definition, self-insured... No
bond required. Although many default on those accumulated medical bill, most
do not. Generally they end up paying on them over a long period, get hounded
by collection agencies, damage their credit rating, etc. Most importantly
they get charged full price, not the discounted prices paid by insured
people.
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Meadors, Ivan C"
> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:27:00
> To: b hamon;
obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance
(Was:
> CrossNats crash)
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_____

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now.


Mark J. Ginsberg

2009-12-17

As others have mentioned most definately YES.

Mike Murray put it best, but even for bills that have been incurred some providers would rather take some money versus spending time and effort on collections.

There are even companies out there who will negotiate your unpaid medical bills for you (for a fee, natch).

In my law practice, when the facts support it, we talk directly with providers to see if they will take less than 100% of their outstanding balances for injured people who I represent.

M

Mark J. Ginsberg
Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
Attorneys At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

________________________________
From: l j
To: markjginsberg@yahoo.com; mike.murray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 11:59:28 AM
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance (Was:CrossNats crash)

then can someone without insurance (ie. the recently crashed racers) negotiate to pay less?
Lonnie

________________________________
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:03:13 -0800
From: markjginsberg@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance (Was:CrossNats crash)
To: eldiablo555556@hotmail.com; mike.murray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org


it is that those with insurance have companies that have negotiated for them to pay less!

Mark J. Ginsberg
Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
Attorneys At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

________________________________
From: l j
To: mike.murray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 9:57:36 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance (Was:CrossNats crash)

So why is it that those without insurance have to pay more?
Lonnie Johnson
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> From: mike.murray@obra.org
> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 03:39:40 +0000
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance (Was:CrossNats crash)
>
> Oregon has a program for insuring people who have been unable to obtain insurance commercially however the premiums are high compared to regular insurance.
>
> Liability is rarely an issue for cyclists since they rarely cause damage to others.
>
> People who do not have insurance are, by definition, self-insured... No bond required. Although many default on those accumulated medical bill, most do not. Generally they end up paying on them over a long period, get hounded by collection agencies, damage their credit rating, etc. Most importantly they get charged full price, not the discounted prices paid by insured people.
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Meadors, Ivan C"
> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:27:00
> To: b hamon; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance (Was:
> CrossNats crash)
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

________________________________
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________________________________
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eric aldinger

2009-12-17

I have talked to people who negotiated lower rates prior to receiving
treatment. I have a hard time seeing a facility redoing all of a patient's
billing (item by item) to provide a better rate after treatment has been
received.

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 11:59 AM, l j wrote:

> then can someone without insurance (ie. the recently crashed racers)
> negotiate to pay less?
> Lonnie
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:03:13 -0800
> From: markjginsberg@yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance
> (Was:CrossNats crash)
> To: eldiablo555556@hotmail.com; mike.murray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
>
> it is that those with insurance have companies that have negotiated for
> them to pay less!
>
> Mark J. Ginsberg
> Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
> Attorneys At Law
> 1216 SE Belmont St.
> Portland, OR 97214
> (503) 542-3000
> Fax (503) 233-6874
> markjginsberg@yahoo.com
> www.bikesafetylaw.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* l j
> *To:* mike.murray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
> *Sent:* Thu, December 17, 2009 9:57:36 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without
> insurance (Was:CrossNats crash)
>
> So why is it that those without insurance have to pay more?
> Lonnie Johnson
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > From: mike.murray@obra.org
> > Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 03:39:40 +0000
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance
> (Was:CrossNats crash)
> >
> > Oregon has a program for insuring people who have been unable to obtain
> insurance commercially however the premiums are high compared to regular
> insurance.
> >
> > Liability is rarely an issue for cyclists since they rarely cause damage
> to others.
> >
> > People who do not have insurance are, by definition, self-insured... No
> bond required. Although many default on those accumulated medical bill, most
> do not. Generally they end up paying on them over a long period, get hounded
> by collection agencies, damage their credit rating, etc. Most importantly
> they get charged full price, not the discounted prices paid by insured
> people.
> >
> > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "Meadors, Ivan C"
> > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:27:00
> > To: b hamon; obra@list.obra.org<
> obra@list.obra.org>
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance
> (Was:
> > CrossNats crash)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ------------------------------
> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
iamerichearmeroar


then can someone without insurance (ie. the recently crashed racers) negotiate to pay less?

Lonnie

Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:03:13 -0800
From: markjginsberg@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance (Was:CrossNats crash)
To: eldiablo555556@hotmail.com; mike.murray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org

it is that those with insurance have companies that have negotiated for them to pay less!

Mark J. Ginsberg
Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
Attorneys At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

From: l j
To: mike.murray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 9:57:36 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance (Was:CrossNats crash)

So why is it that those without insurance have to pay more?
Lonnie Johnson
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> From: mike.murray@obra.org
> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 03:39:40 +0000
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance (Was:CrossNats crash)
>
> Oregon has a program for insuring people who have been unable to obtain insurance commercially however the premiums are high compared to regular insurance.
>
> Liability is rarely an issue for cyclists since they rarely cause damage to others.
>
> People who do not have insurance are, by definition, self-insured... No bond required. Although many default on those accumulated medical bill, most do not. Generally they end up paying on them over a long period, get hounded by collection agencies, damage their credit rating, etc. Most importantly they get charged full price, not the discounted prices paid by insured people.
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Meadors, Ivan C"
> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:27:00
> To: b hamon; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance (Was:
> CrossNats crash)
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.

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Jess Mace

2009-12-17

Exactly. While we’re on the topic of insurance and bike racing…this just came out.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34419018/ns/health-health_care/

I would suggest everyone involved in road racing consider this: $45-65$/year (the price of 2 OBRA races)

http://www.lifeflight.org/membership/

This isn’t about blaming anyone, it’s about financially covering yourself and your family while we partake in a very risky sport
of which we don’t always have control of the outcome.

Jess Mace, MPH, CCRP
Clinical Outcomes Research - Oregon Sinus Center
Department of Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery
Oregon Health & Science University
503.494.5886

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mark J. Ginsberg
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 10:03 AM
To: l j; mike.murray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance (Was:CrossNats crash)

it is that those with insurance have companies that have negotiated for them to pay less!

Mark J. Ginsberg
Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
Attorneys At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

________________________________
From: l j
To: mike.murray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 9:57:36 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance (Was:CrossNats crash)

So why is it that those without insurance have to pay more?
Lonnie Johnson
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> From: mike.murray@obra.org
> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 03:39:40 +0000
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance (Was:CrossNats crash)
>
> Oregon has a program for insuring people who have been unable to obtain insurance commercially however the premiums are high compared to regular insurance.
>
> Liability is rarely an issue for cyclists since they rarely cause damage to others.
>
> People who do not have insurance are, by definition, self-insured... No bond required. Although many default on those accumulated medical bill, most do not. Generally they end up paying on them over a long period, get hounded by collection agencies, damage their credit rating, etc. Most importantly they get charged full price, not the discounted prices paid by insured people.
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Meadors, Ivan C"
> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:27:00
> To: b hamon; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance (Was:
> CrossNats crash)
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.


Mark J. Ginsberg

2009-12-17

it is that those with insurance have companies that have negotiated for them to pay less!

Mark J. Ginsberg
Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
Attorneys At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

________________________________
From: l j
To: mike.murray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 9:57:36 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance (Was:CrossNats crash)

So why is it that those without insurance have to pay more?
Lonnie Johnson
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> From: mike.murray@obra.org
> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 03:39:40 +0000
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance (Was:CrossNats crash)
>
> Oregon has a program for insuring people who have been unable to obtain insurance commercially however the premiums are high compared to regular insurance.
>
> Liability is rarely an issue for cyclists since they rarely cause damage to others.
>
> People who do not have insurance are, by definition, self-insured... No bond required. Although many default on those accumulated medical bill, most do not. Generally they end up paying on them over a long period, get hounded by collection agencies, damage their credit rating, etc. Most importantly they get charged full price, not the discounted prices paid by insured people.
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Meadors, Ivan C"
> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:27:00
> To: b hamon; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance (Was:
> CrossNats crash)
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.


craig austin

2009-12-17

The insurance companies negotiate better prices for coverage. As an
individual, you don't have the leverage needed to get them to reduce prices.

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 9:57 AM, l j wrote:

> So why is it that those without insurance have to pay more?
> Lonnie Johnson
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > From: mike.murray@obra.org
> > Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 03:39:40 +0000
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance
> (Was:CrossNats crash)
> >
> > Oregon has a program for insuring people who have been unable to obtain
> insurance commercially however the premiums are high compared to regular
> insurance.
> >
> > Liability is rarely an issue for cyclists since they rarely cause damage
> to others.
> >
> > People who do not have insurance are, by definition, self-insured... No
> bond required. Although many default on those accumulated medical bill, most
> do not. Generally they end up paying on them over a long period, get hounded
> by collection agencies, damage their credit rating, etc. Most importantly
> they get charged full price, not the discounted prices paid by insured
> people.
> >
> > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "Meadors, Ivan C"
> > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:27:00
> > To: b hamon; obra@list.obra.org<
> obra@list.obra.org>
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance
> (Was:
> > CrossNats crash)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ------------------------------
> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


So why is it that those without insurance have to pay more?

Lonnie Johnson
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> From: mike.murray@obra.org
> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 03:39:40 +0000
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance (Was:CrossNats crash)
>
> Oregon has a program for insuring people who have been unable to obtain insurance commercially however the premiums are high compared to regular insurance.
>
> Liability is rarely an issue for cyclists since they rarely cause damage to others.
>
> People who do not have insurance are, by definition, self-insured... No bond required. Although many default on those accumulated medical bill, most do not. Generally they end up paying on them over a long period, get hounded by collection agencies, damage their credit rating, etc. Most importantly they get charged full price, not the discounted prices paid by insured people.
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Meadors, Ivan C"
> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:27:00
> To: b hamon; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance (Was:
> CrossNats crash)
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/


Mike Murray

2009-12-16

Oregon has a program for insuring people who have been unable to obtain insurance commercially however the premiums are high compared to regular insurance.

Liability is rarely an issue for cyclists since they rarely cause damage to others.

People who do not have insurance are, by definition, self-insured... No bond required. Although many default on those accumulated medical bill, most do not. Generally they end up paying on them over a long period, get hounded by collection agencies, damage their credit rating, etc. Most importantly they get charged full price, not the discounted prices paid by insured people.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: "Meadors, Ivan C"
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:27:00
To: b hamon; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] self-bonding --> racing/riding without insurance (Was:
CrossNats crash)

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