I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

Monty Hill

2010-01-20

I only drive my car like an a..hole, which fortunately for all of us cyclists is rare.

FYI I did my own survey about a year ago and on a normal commute on my bicycle I witnessed an average of (9) traffic violations by automobiles. This by no stretch of the imagination led me to believe all automobile drivers are a..holes. So why would I ever group all cyclists into one group and judge them based on the actions of a few? Because we are still a Minority? That does not seem right.

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Pink Panther
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 5:18 PM
To: kevin97116@yahoo.com; joec@aracnet.com
Cc: Obra List
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

Of all my travels and riding all across the country...so far PDX ranks as one of the most hostile places I have encountered to ride a bike. To have people go as far as to drive across the yellow line to try and hit you (has happened multiple times in the PDX metro area to me) shows how high the tension is between motorists and cyclists in this area. The hatred that the common person in PDX has towards cyclist is unremarkable to astonishing. I love that they will stop for a squirel yet try and hit me, a fellow human, showing a total lack of care towards human life. But as a buddy told me and that has been displayed thus far by our justice system, lately, in our country, "If you want to get away with murder, make sure they are on a bike."

I see both ends of the spectrum. As a cyclist, it frustrates me to see people riding like total morans, riding down the middle of the lane when its not necissary, running lights within city limits, cutting blindly through traffic that results in cutting off a car, yada yada. I see plenty of irresponsible riding occuring in PDX which does not help our cause. If there is to be a change for a the better, people on bikes will have to go out of their way to ride intelligently and diligently, abiding by every law and to not be a menache to the flow of traffic. To try and fight by riding more erractically or in any sort of violent outburst will continue to deteriorate the relationship between motorist and cyclist. Now im not saying all of you on this list ride like a--holes, in fact its more likely the common/weekend worrior rider, but the way we ride can set an example to others.

The hype of PDX being the best cyclign town in the nation is total B.S. Its as overrated as David Beckham. Yes there is a decent size population that has embraced the cycling culture which makes it a unique place, but Id trade having a town with no cycling culture for knowing ill be more secure on my ride. For my money, Bend and Corvallis are about the best areas to be for a cyclist in Oregon. They have it all, road and xc, less traffic, more of of that 'small town country' hospitality meaning practically ZERO problems with motorists and cyclist. They are very courtiest and aware of your presense. Shoot, Las Vegas is a better town to ride through then PDX. No one there cares as long as you stay to the right of the lane.

I honestly hope and pray that the conflict between cyclist and motorist in PDX soon resolves itself before more deaths occur. But i have a feeling PDX is heading towards a major catastrophy that will force people to open their eyes to the issue.
________________________________
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 08:35:58 -0800
From: kevin97116@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!
To: joec@aracnet.com; rabbitxcr@hotmail.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Wow, I've spent 6 weeks riding in San Diego since June. To include San Diego on that list you must have been riding in a different location than I did. I was SO glad to get back to Oregon where the roads are in MUCH better shape and the drivers, while not perfect, are a lot more "tolerant" of cyclists.

Kevin

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What is happening in Kevin's corner of the bike world?
http://the-whir-of-spokes-in-air.blogspot.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

________________________________
From: Joe Cipale
To: Pink Panther
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tue, January 19, 2010 8:29:13 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

Sorry folks,

Everytime I hear that PDX is the 'friendliset bike city in America', I simply have to laugh. I have ridden in MANY cities that treay cyclists 10 TIMES better than Portland does:
SF
LA,
Seattle,
Phoenix,
San Diego,
Miami,
...

Tell me when to stop.

Joe

Pink Panther wrote:

>
> Not all but most. I had a Beaverton Motorcycle Officer threaten to taze me =
> while still on my bike. He came up from behind with his siren on. I was sho=
> cked to see him behind me, and managed to let my thought slip to verbalizat=
> ion "You have got to be kiddin me?" His response was, "Im not. Pull over or=
> ill taze you." Did i mention this was out on Bald Peak on some back countr=
> y road, where there was no traffic or anything. It was for not putting my f=
> oot down at a stop sign when i came to a halt(track stand) at an intersecti=
> on; an intersection you can see a mile in each direction with little to no =
> traffic. He was quite angry and was in my face yelling, close enough he was=
> spitting on me, the entire time. I was polite at first, but he just kept y=
> elling, so i quite talking and stood there silently, which seemed to make h=
> im more and more angry. Unfortunately i got a 300 dollar ticket because he =
> "had to teach me and us other dumb cyclist a lesson." Too bad i was too she=
> lled from 4 hrs of a horrific interval and wet ride to think straight enoug=
> h to get his badge number. Although the judge gave me much of the same "thi=
> s will teach you a lesson" treatment as well. Got to love our justice syste=
> m.
>
> From: barretfishner@hotmail.com
> To: rabbitxcr@hotmail.com
> Subject: FW: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!
> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:41:33 -0800
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:21:27 -0800
> From: ewascent@gmail.com
> To: rondot@spiritone.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!
>
>
> "Remember it was just that=20
> one guy. Not all the officers."
>
> Since I race against at least one Portland PD racer I know for a fact that =
> not all cops are biased against cyclists or citizens minding their own busi=
> ness. I have been generally impressed with the demeanor of the cops that ha=
> ve pulled me over for general vehicular chicanery.=20
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Ron and Dorothy Strasser .com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Scott,
> The interaction is finished at this point, but=20
> my understanding with regard to Portland Police, is they are supposed=20
> to give you their name or business card or some such ID requirement now.=20=
> =20
> Maybe it has not started yet. I am pretty sure I would not be trying to=20
> take a photo of an officer while he/she is in control of the situation... w=
> hich=20
> even when this type of escalation takes place... the officer is the boss.=
> =20=20
> If what you describe about your interaction with this person is accurate, h=
> e was=20
> a bit off the charts in my opinion. Anybody stopping along that bluff=20
> creates a potential hazard. Especially a motor vehicle. And you=20
> would think a police officer would recognize this more than a Joe or Jane=
> =20
> Citizen. This officer knew that anyone coming along would need to go=20
> around you guys (and thus into traffic).... probably causing much more dang=
> er=20
> than what he said you caused. I think this guys was on edge. Many=20
> people ride this area and do what you describe.
> I pass riders along that section of Willamette=20
> Blvd. all the time in the same manner. This has never happened to=20
> me. I have been passed there as well, but am less apt to pay much=20
> attention to when the next motor vehicle also comes by from behind. I am=
> =20
> always on my guard in that area along the bluff because there is real dange=
> r=20
> there around the potential crashes from motor vehicles turning left and the=
> ones=20
> behind them either rear-ending them or skidding into bike lane / riders.=20=
> =20
> Keep your eyes on the skid marks on that section of roadway and you will se=
> e=20
> what I mean. A few years ago I stopped while riding that section (put my=
> =20
> bike over on a grass section) and cut blackberries back that were hanging i=
> n the=20
> bike lane. A patrol car went by while I was doing this (driver slowed and=
> =20
> looked at what I was doing) but did not stop. The next day a city crew was=
> =20
> out mowing and weed-eating. I do not know if my work had anything to=20
> do with that, but I did it because I see a large number of riders along tha=
> t=20
> lane who are pretty intimidated by the fast moving traffic. They do=20
> not need additional obstacles. Traffic safety in that bike=20
> lane (in-bound toward the city center) is very much impacted by anything (p=
> eople=20
> on blades / skateboards, joggers, busses stopped at pick up areas, cars dri=
> ving=20
> or stopped in it, especially any of the above going the wrong=20
> direction. To be honest, my most dangerous situations have been when=20
> coming upon the UP cross country team out running / training. I even=20
> talked to their coach about how dangerous it was to have 6-12 riders runnin=
> g in=20
> that lane. I told him I was not as concerned about riders that=20
> were very competent on their bikes, but riders not as experienced and the f=
> act=20
> that one is never sure what auto drivers will do when those situations=20
> arise. The posted speed there is 35, but I know for a fact that=20
> 40-45+ is the norm especially for commuters in the morning and afternoon.=
> =20=20
> His response did not satisfy me (but I have to admit I have not seen groups=
> (as=20
> large) of his team running since) in that his solution was to have his runn=
> ers=20
> move into the lane of traffic to let riders go by. This can really confuse=
> =20
> "everybody". I say a heads up in that area almost all the=20
> time.
> Hope your blood pressure is good and the rest of=20
> your day is much better. Since police officers are "people" as well, I=20
> hope his BP is lower and he is having a better time about now. Maybe even=
> =20
> coming to grips with the fact he overreacted. Remember it was just that=20
> one guy. Not all the officers. No I am not at all employed by the=20
> police dept and do not have any family employed by them or other department=
> s=20
> (although my mom told my I had an uncle who was a Texas border patrol=20
> officer).
> take care out there.
> ron
> ps.......You probably handled it much better than I=20
> would have. I might be sitting in a cell right now.=20=20=20=20
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> =20=20
> From:=20
> Scott=20
> Fitzwater=20
> To: obra@list.obra.org=20
>
> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:22=20
> PM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] I almost got=20
> arrested today while on a bike ride!
> =20=20
> This is simply unbelievable. I was on a 2 hr bike ride on an=20
> unexpectedly pleasant day of sunshine. Riding on N Willamette Blvd just p=
> ast U=20
> of P on the bike path toward downtown. I was riding about 22 mph and=20
> approached another bike rider in the bike lane who was riding significant=
> ly=20
> slower. I looked over my left shoulder, saw that I has safe distance from=
> the=20
> auto traffic behind me, signaled with my left hand/arm that I was coming =
> out,=20
> went around the other bike rider, merged back into the bike lane and cont=
> inued=20
> on at my 22 mph pace.=20
>
> Next thing I know, there is a vehicle behind me=20
> siren blipping and lights flashing. Huh, is this guy pulling me over? I g=
> uess=20
> he is. I stop, the SUV size vehicle pulls over and the cop jumps out sayi=
> ng I=20
> failed to yield when I left the bike lane, entered his lane and passed th=
> e=20
> bike rider. His voice was raised and he's acting angry. I kid you not!! I=
> =20
> asked him to calm down and he gets madder. I told him that I felt I safel=
> y=20
> executed the pass by looking behind, saw the safe distance and signaled. =
> He=20
> disagreed again and threatened to ticket me. He asked for my ID. Luckily,=
> I'd=20
> forgotten to bring any and he yelled "god damnit" when I told him. The=20
> "discussion" was devolving into "yes you did, no I didn't" and he was=20
> obviously in control (at one point he said "you're not free to go") so I=
> =20
> finally said ok, you're right and just stared at him. He then called on h=
> is=20
> radio and asked if a car was nearby (presumably to arrest me??). I guess =
> none=20
> were since one didn't show up.
>
> The dude (who is a Sargent, by the way)=20
> then takes down my name, address, phone number and goes back into his veh=
> icle.=20
> This whole time we're pulled over on the right, the cop vehicle is blocki=
> ng=20
> the bike lane and all bike riders are having to leave the bike lane, ente=
> r the=20
> traffic lane and ride around us. Finally, he returns and has written me a=
> =20
> warning. I ask what it meant and he said "nothing". I said I was sorry fo=
> r the=20
> hassle, he said nothing so I rode off. Weird experience.
>
> Portland's=20
> finest? Oink oink.
>
> Scott
>
> =20=20
> =20=20
>
>
> =20=20
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing=20
> list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe:=20
> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> OBRA mailing list
>
>
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> --=20
> Eric Aldinger
> =20=09=09=20=09=20=20=20=09=09=20=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/=

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Kevin

2010-01-20

LOL! Yup, locking up the FRONT one usually results in both coming to a complete stop sooner rather than later!

Kevin

________________________________
From: Kevin Mansker
To: Rachael Parker ; Obra
Sent: Tue, January 19, 2010 7:05:15 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

Lock up the rear one.
------Original Message------
From: Rachael Parker
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
To: Ben Fischler
Cc: Obra
Sent: Jan 19, 2010 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

How do you make just one wheel come to a complete stop?

Rachael

On Jan 19, 2010, at 12:29 PM, Ben Fischler wrote:

> FWIW, the last time a cop stopped me for running a stop sign (last time meaning the second of two in 36 years of current existence,) he informed me that the law states that "both wheels must come to a full stop". No mention of feet. He actually said "just do a quick track stand".
>
> Cops that get riled up over things like bikes passing bikes are having a shitty day (no donut?) and are just taking it out on you. That's the breaks. Report it.
>
> [ ben.fischler@gmail.com ]
>
>
>
> On Jan 19, 2010, at 12:10 PM, eric aldinger wrote:
>
>> I had a traffic court judge tell me the following "I do not consider it a requirement to put your foot down when you come to a stop sign. Other traffic judges may not understand the law in this way."
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
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Kevin Mansker

2010-01-20

Lock up the rear one.
------Original Message------
From: Rachael Parker
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
To: Ben Fischler
Cc: Obra
Sent: Jan 19, 2010 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

How do you make just one wheel come to a complete stop?

Rachael

On Jan 19, 2010, at 12:29 PM, Ben Fischler wrote:

> FWIW, the last time a cop stopped me for running a stop sign (last time meaning the second of two in 36 years of current existence,) he informed me that the law states that "both wheels must come to a full stop". No mention of feet. He actually said "just do a quick track stand".
>
> Cops that get riled up over things like bikes passing bikes are having a shitty day (no donut?) and are just taking it out on you. That's the breaks. Report it.
>
> [ ben.fischler@gmail.com ]
>
>
>
> On Jan 19, 2010, at 12:10 PM, eric aldinger wrote:
>
>> I had a traffic court judge tell me the following "I do not consider it a requirement to put your foot down when you come to a stop sign. Other traffic judges may not understand the law in this way."
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile


Rachael Parker

2010-01-20

How do you make just one wheel come to a complete stop?

Rachael

On Jan 19, 2010, at 12:29 PM, Ben Fischler wrote:

> FWIW, the last time a cop stopped me for running a stop sign (last time meaning the second of two in 36 years of current existence,) he informed me that the law states that "both wheels must come to a full stop". No mention of feet. He actually said "just do a quick track stand".
>
> Cops that get riled up over things like bikes passing bikes are having a shitty day (no donut?) and are just taking it out on you. That's the breaks. Report it.
>
> [ ben.fischler@gmail.com ]
>
>
>
> On Jan 19, 2010, at 12:10 PM, eric aldinger wrote:
>
>> I had a traffic court judge tell me the following "I do not consider it a requirement to put your foot down when you come to a stop sign. Other traffic judges may not understand the law in this way."
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


johnfforbes@comcast.net

2010-01-20

I've ridden in Portland for more than 20 years. I ride throughout the Metro area and beyond. In the past few years I remember perhaps four drivers who I'd consider as angry or deliberately acting in a dangerous manner. Frankly, I find Portland one of the safest places in the US for us.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Pink Panther
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 17:18:20
To: ;
Cc: Obra List
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

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Mike Murray

2010-01-20

I don't know that Portland is the best but to say it is one of the worst is a stretch. I have been to a whole lot of cities that are a lot worse. That includes Las Vegas. The biggest problem I have on a regular basis is drivers being TOO courteous; yielding when they have the right of way, waiting for you to pass them on the right (which I won't do), etc.
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Pink Panther
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 17:18:20
To: ;
Cc: Obra List
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

_______________________________________________
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Pink Panther

2010-01-20

Of all my travels and riding all across the country...so far PDX ranks as one of the most hostile places I have encountered to ride a bike. To have people go as far as to drive across the yellow line to try and hit you (has happened multiple times in the PDX metro area to me) shows how high the tension is between motorists and cyclists in this area. The hatred that the common person in PDX has towards cyclist is unremarkable to astonishing. I love that they will stop for a squirel yet try and hit me, a fellow human, showing a total lack of care towards human life. But as a buddy told me and that has been displayed thus far by our justice system, lately, in our country, "If you want to get away with murder, make sure they are on a bike."

I see both ends of the spectrum. As a cyclist, it frustrates me to see people riding like total morans, riding down the middle of the lane when its not necissary, running lights within city limits, cutting blindly through traffic that results in cutting off a car, yada yada. I see plenty of irresponsible riding occuring in PDX which does not help our cause. If there is to be a change for a the better, people on bikes will have to go out of their way to ride intelligently and diligently, abiding by every law and to not be a menache to the flow of traffic. To try and fight by riding more erractically or in any sort of violent outburst will continue to deteriorate the relationship between motorist and cyclist. Now im not saying all of you on this list ride like a--holes, in fact its more likely the common/weekend worrior rider, but the way we ride can set an example to others.

The hype of PDX being the best cyclign town in the nation is total B.S. Its as overrated as David Beckham. Yes there is a decent size population that has embraced the cycling culture which makes it a unique place, but Id trade having a town with no cycling culture for knowing ill be more secure on my ride. For my money, Bend and Corvallis are about the best areas to be for a cyclist in Oregon. They have it all, road and xc, less traffic, more of of that 'small town country' hospitality meaning practically ZERO problems with motorists and cyclist. They are very courtiest and aware of your presense. Shoot, Las Vegas is a better town to ride through then PDX. No one there cares as long as you stay to the right of the lane.

I honestly hope and pray that the conflict between cyclist and motorist in PDX soon resolves itself before more deaths occur. But i have a feeling PDX is heading towards a major catastrophy that will force people to open their eyes to the issue.
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 08:35:58 -0800
From: kevin97116@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!
To: joec@aracnet.com; rabbitxcr@hotmail.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org

Wow, I've spent 6 weeks riding in San Diego since June. To include San Diego on that list you must have been riding in a different location than I did. I was SO glad to get back to Oregon where the roads are in MUCH better shape and the drivers, while not perfect, are a lot more "tolerant" of cyclists.

Kevin
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What is happening in Kevin's corner of the bike world?
http://the-whir-of-spokes-in-air.blogspot.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: Joe Cipale
To: Pink Panther
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tue, January 19, 2010 8:29:13 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

Sorry folks,

Everytime I hear that PDX is the 'friendliset bike city in America', I simply have to laugh. I have ridden in MANY cities that treay cyclists 10 TIMES better than Portland does:
SF
LA,
Seattle,
Phoenix,
San Diego,
Miami,
...

Tell me when to stop.

Joe

Pink Panther wrote:

>
> Not all but most. I had a Beaverton Motorcycle Officer threaten to taze me =
> while still on my bike. He came up from
behind with his siren on. I was sho=
> cked to see him behind me, and managed to let my thought slip to verbalizat=
> ion "You have got to be kiddin me?" His response was, "Im not. Pull over or=
> ill taze you." Did i mention this was out on Bald Peak on some back countr=
> y road, where there was no traffic or anything. It was for not putting my f=
> oot down at a stop sign when i came to a halt(track stand) at an intersecti=
> on; an intersection you can see a mile in each direction with little to no =
> traffic. He was quite angry and was in my face yelling, close enough he was=
> spitting on me, the entire time. I was polite at first, but he just kept y=
> elling, so i quite talking and stood there silently, which seemed to make h=
> im more and more angry. Unfortunately i got a 300 dollar ticket because he =
> "had to teach me and us other dumb cyclist a lesson." Too bad
i was too she=
> lled from 4 hrs of a horrific interval and wet ride to think straight enoug=
> h to get his badge number. Although the judge gave me much of the same "thi=
> s will teach you a lesson" treatment as well. Got to love our justice syste=
> m.
>
> From: barretfishner@hotmail.com
> To: rabbitxcr@hotmail.com
> Subject: FW: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!
> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:41:33 -0800
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:21:27 -0800
> From: ewascent@gmail.com
> To: rondot@spiritone.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!
>
>
> "Remember it was just that=20
> one guy. Not all the officers."
>
> Since I race against at least one Portland PD racer I know for a fact that =
> not all cops are biased against cyclists or citizens minding their own busi=
> ness. I have been generally impressed with the demeanor of the cops that ha=
> ve pulled me over for general vehicular chicanery.=20
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Ron and Dorothy Strasser .com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Scott,
> The interaction is finished at this point, but=20
> my
understanding with regard to Portland Police, is they are supposed=20
> to give you their name or business card or some such ID requirement now.=20=
> =20
> Maybe it has not started yet. I am pretty sure I would not be trying to=20
> take a photo of an officer while he/she is in control of the situation... w=
> hich=20
> even when this type of escalation takes place... the officer is the boss.=
> =20=20
> If what you describe about your interaction with this person is accurate, h=
> e was=20
> a bit off the charts in my opinion. Anybody stopping along that bluff=20
> creates a potential hazard. Especially a motor vehicle. And you=20
> would think a police officer would recognize this more than a Joe or Jane=
> =20
> Citizen. This officer knew that anyone coming along would need to go=20
> around you guys (and thus into traffic)....
probably causing much more dang=
> er=20
> than what he said you caused. I think this guys was on edge. Many=20
> people ride this area and do what you describe.
> I pass riders along that section of Willamette=20
> Blvd. all the time in the same manner. This has never happened to=20
> me. I have been passed there as well, but am less apt to pay much=20
> attention to when the next motor vehicle also comes by from behind. I am=
> =20
> always on my guard in that area along the bluff because there is real dange=
> r=20
> there around the potential crashes from motor vehicles turning left and the=
> ones=20
> behind them either rear-ending them or skidding into bike lane / riders.=20=
> =20
> Keep your eyes on the skid marks on that section of roadway and you will se=
> e=20
> what I mean. A few years ago I
stopped while riding that section (put my=
> =20
> bike over on a grass section) and cut blackberries back that were hanging i=
> n the=20
> bike lane. A patrol car went by while I was doing this (driver slowed and=
> =20
> looked at what I was doing) but did not stop. The next day a city crew was=
> =20
> out mowing and weed-eating. I do not know if my work had anything to=20
> do with that, but I did it because I see a large number of riders along tha=
> t=20
> lane who are pretty intimidated by the fast moving traffic. They do=20
> not need additional obstacles. Traffic safety in that bike=20
> lane (in-bound toward the city center) is very much impacted by anything (p=
> eople=20
> on blades / skateboards, joggers, busses stopped at pick up areas, cars dri=
> ving=20
> or stopped in it, especially any of the above going
the wrong=20
> direction. To be honest, my most dangerous situations have been when=20
> coming upon the UP cross country team out running / training. I even=20
> talked to their coach about how dangerous it was to have 6-12 riders runnin=
> g in=20
> that lane. I told him I was not as concerned about riders that=20
> were very competent on their bikes, but riders not as experienced and the f=
> act=20
> that one is never sure what auto drivers will do when those situations=20
> arise. The posted speed there is 35, but I know for a fact that=20
> 40-45+ is the norm especially for commuters in the morning and afternoon.=
> =20=20
> His response did not satisfy me (but I have to admit I have not seen groups=
> (as=20
> large) of his team running since) in that his solution was to have his runn=
> ers=20
> move into the lane of
traffic to let riders go by. This can really confuse=
> =20
> "everybody". I say a heads up in that area almost all the=20
> time.
> Hope your blood pressure is good and the rest of=20
> your day is much better. Since police officers are "people" as well, I=20
> hope his BP is lower and he is having a better time about now. Maybe even=
> =20
> coming to grips with the fact he overreacted. Remember it was just that=20
> one guy. Not all the officers. No I am not at all employed by the=20
> police dept and do not have any family employed by them or other department=
> s=20
> (although my mom told my I had an uncle who was a Texas border patrol=20
> officer).
> take care out there.
> ron
> ps.......You probably handled it much better than I=20
> would have. I might be sitting in a cell right
now.=20=20=20=20
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> =20=20
> From:=20
> Scott=20
> Fitzwater=20
> To: obra@list.obra.org=20
>
> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:22=20
> PM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] I almost got=20
> arrested today while on a bike ride!
> =20=20
> This is simply unbelievable. I was on a 2 hr bike ride on an=20
> unexpectedly pleasant day of sunshine. Riding on N Willamette Blvd just p=
> ast U=20
> of P on the bike path toward downtown. I was riding about 22 mph and=20
> approached another bike rider in the bike lane who was riding significant=
> ly=20
> slower. I looked over my left shoulder, saw that I has safe distance from=
> the=20
>
auto traffic behind me, signaled with my left hand/arm that I was coming =
> out,=20
> went around the other bike rider, merged back into the bike lane and cont=
> inued=20
> on at my 22 mph pace.=20
>
> Next thing I know, there is a vehicle behind me=20
> siren blipping and lights flashing. Huh, is this guy pulling me over? I g=
> uess=20
> he is. I stop, the SUV size vehicle pulls over and the cop jumps out sayi=
> ng I=20
> failed to yield when I left the bike lane, entered his lane and passed th=
> e=20
> bike rider. His voice was raised and he's acting angry. I kid you not!! I=
> =20
> asked him to calm down and he gets madder. I told him that I felt I safel=
> y=20
> executed the pass by looking behind, saw the safe distance and signaled. =
> He=20
> disagreed again and threatened
to ticket me. He asked for my ID. Luckily,=
> I'd=20
> forgotten to bring any and he yelled "god damnit" when I told him. The=20
> "discussion" was devolving into "yes you did, no I didn't" and he was=20
> obviously in control (at one point he said "you're not free to go") so I=
> =20
> finally said ok, you're right and just stared at him. He then called on h=
> is=20
> radio and asked if a car was nearby (presumably to arrest me??). I guess =
> none=20
> were since one didn't show up.
>
> The dude (who is a Sargent, by the way)=20
> then takes down my name, address, phone number and goes back into his veh=
> icle.=20
> This whole time we're pulled over on the right, the cop vehicle is blocki=
> ng=20
> the bike lane and all bike riders are having to leave the bike lane, ente=
> r
the=20
> traffic lane and ride around us. Finally, he returns and has written me a=
> =20
> warning. I ask what it meant and he said "nothing". I said I was sorry fo=
> r the=20
> hassle, he said nothing so I rode off. Weird experience.
>
> Portland's=20
> finest? Oink oink.
>
> Scott
>
> =20=20
> =20=20
>
>
> =20=20
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing=20
> list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe:=20
> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> OBRA
mailing list
>
>
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> --=20
> Eric Aldinger
> =20=09=09=20=09=20=20=20=09=09=20=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/=

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Mark J. Ginsberg

2010-01-20

Sadly, having an attorney who knows the law doesn't mean you will win in court.

I am happy to cry into as many beers as you want to pay for!

M

Mark J. Ginsberg
Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
Attorneys At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

________________________________
From: Kevin
To: eric aldinger ; gschreckchat@comcast.net
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tue, January 19, 2010 4:12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

Not every judge may understand the law in this way but I'll assure you that every lawyer who represents cyclists understands the law.

I don't care what the cops are "trained to look for". If I'm stopped and get a citation because my foot was not down I will fight it on principle.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What is happening in Kevin's corner of the bike world?
http://the-whir-of-spokes-in-air.blogspot.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

________________________________
From: eric aldinger
To: gschreckchat@comcast.net
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tue, January 19, 2010 12:10:25 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

I had a traffic court judge tell me the following "I do not consider it a requirement to put your foot down when you come to a stop sign. Other traffic judges may not understand the law in this way."

I still do track stands at signs and lights, but I know if I see an officer I should put my foot down to signal a full stop to them. The officer is trained to look for that foot going down to determine you are at a full stop. You learn a lot at traffic school.


Kevin

2010-01-20

Not every judge may understand the law in this way but I'll assure you that every lawyer who represents cyclists understands the law.

I don't care what the cops are "trained to look for". If I'm stopped and get a citation because my foot was not down I will fight it on principle.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What is happening in Kevin's corner of the bike world?
http://the-whir-of-spokes-in-air.blogspot.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

________________________________
From: eric aldinger
To: gschreckchat@comcast.net
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tue, January 19, 2010 12:10:25 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

I had a traffic court judge tell me the following "I do not consider it a requirement to put your foot down when you come to a stop sign. Other traffic judges may not understand the law in this way."

I still do track stands at signs and lights, but I know if I see an officer I should put my foot down to signal a full stop to them. The officer is trained to look for that foot going down to determine you are at a full stop. You learn a lot at traffic school.


Sorry I didn't read all of the responses so sorry if this was mentioned before but from what I hear the city has a couple road improvements that may happen and willamette is one of them. I hear they are planning on removing all the on street parking and making the bike lanes wider. Hopefully they will fix the disappearing bike lane that happens right at U of P after the hard right at the end of the bluffs. I ride this everyday and improvements are much needed. It'd be nice if they did some street sweeping on that street a little more often too. The other area they are looking at doing something similar is Williams. It'd be nice to not think about getting doored on that street. Obviously I'm preaching to the choir but has anyone else heard of these projects in the works?


Ben Fischler

2010-01-19

FWIW, the last time a cop stopped me for running a stop sign (last time meaning the second of two in 36 years of current existence,) he informed me that the law states that "both wheels must come to a full stop". No mention of feet. He actually said "just do a quick track stand".

Cops that get riled up over things like bikes passing bikes are having a shitty day (no donut?) and are just taking it out on you. That's the breaks. Report it.

[ ben.fischler@gmail.com ]

On Jan 19, 2010, at 12:10 PM, eric aldinger wrote:

> I had a traffic court judge tell me the following "I do not consider it a requirement to put your foot down when you come to a stop sign. Other traffic judges may not understand the law in this way."


eric aldinger

2010-01-19

I had a traffic court judge tell me the following "I do not consider it a
requirement to put your foot down when you come to a stop sign. Other
traffic judges may not understand the law in this way."

I still do track stands at signs and lights, but I know if I see an officer
I should put my foot down to signal a full stop to them. The officer is
trained to look for that foot going down to determine you are at a full
stop. You learn a lot at traffic school.

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 12:06 PM, wrote:

> Actually, most of them are very nice and most times I deserved to be
> stopped anyway. I think some of this is a case of being tarred by the bad
> behavior of the many cyclists that do not follow the rules of the road. It
> is unfortunate.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "eric aldinger"
> To: "Ron and Dorothy Strasser"
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 4:21:27 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!
>
> "Remember it was just that one guy. Not all the officers."
>
> Since I race against at least one Portland PD racer I know for a fact that
> not all cops are biased against cyclists or citizens minding their own
> business. I have been generally impressed with the demeanor of the cops that
> have pulled me over for general vehicular chicanery.
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Ron and Dorothy Strasser <
> rondot@spiritone.com> wrote:
>
>> Scott,
>> The interaction is finished at this point, but my understanding with
>> regard to Portland Police, is they are supposed to give you their name or
>> business card or some such ID requirement now. Maybe it has not started
>> yet. I am pretty sure I would not be trying to take a photo of an officer
>> while he/she is in control of the situation... which even when this type of
>> escalation takes place... the officer is the boss. If what you describe
>> about your interaction with this person is accurate, he was a bit off the
>> charts in my opinion. Anybody stopping along that bluff creates a potential
>> hazard. Especially a motor vehicle. And you would think a police officer
>> would recognize this more than a Joe or Jane Citizen. This officer knew
>> that anyone coming along would need to go around you guys (and thus into
>> traffic).... probably causing much more danger than what he said you
>> caused. I think this guys was on edge. Many people ride this area and do
>> what you describe.
>> I pass riders along that section of Willamette Blvd. all the time in the
>> same manner. This has never happened to me. I have been passed there as
>> well, but am less apt to pay much attention to when the next motor vehicle
>> also comes by from behind. I am always on my guard in that area along the
>> bluff because there is real danger there around the potential crashes from
>> motor vehicles turning left and the ones behind them either rear-ending them
>> or skidding into bike lane / riders. Keep your eyes on the skid marks on
>> that section of roadway and you will see what I mean. A few years ago I
>> stopped while riding that section (put my bike over on a grass section) and
>> cut blackberries back that were hanging in the bike lane. A patrol car went
>> by while I was doing this (driver slowed and looked at what I was doing) but
>> did not stop. The next day a city crew was out mowing and weed-eating. I
>> do not know if my work had anything to do with that, but I did it because I
>> see a large number of riders along that lane who are pretty intimidated by
>> the fast moving traffic. They do not need additional obstacles. *Traffic
>> safety* in that bike lane (in-bound toward the city center) is very much
>> impacted by anything (people on blades / skateboards, joggers, busses
>> stopped at pick up areas, cars driving or stopped in it, especially any of
>> the above going the wrong direction. To be honest, my most dangerous
>> situations have been when coming upon the UP cross country team out running
>> / training. I even talked to their coach about how dangerous it was to have
>> 6-12 riders running in that lane. I told him I was not as concerned about
>> riders that were very competent on their bikes, but riders not as
>> experienced and the fact that one is never sure what auto drivers will do
>> when those situations arise. The posted speed there is 35, but I know for a
>> fact that 40-45+ is the norm especially for commuters in the morning and
>> afternoon. His response did not satisfy me (but I have to admit I have not
>> seen groups (as large) of his team running since) in that his solution was
>> to have his runners move into the lane of traffic to let riders go by. This
>> can really confuse "everybody". I say a heads up in that area almost all
>> the time.
>> Hope your blood pressure is good and the rest of your day is much better.
>> Since police officers are "people" as well, I hope his BP is lower and he is
>> having a better time about now. Maybe even coming to grips with the fact he
>> overreacted. Remember it was just that one guy. Not all the officers. No
>> I am not at all employed by the police dept and do not have any family
>> employed by them or other departments (although my mom told my I had an
>> uncle who was a Texas border patrol officer).
>> take care out there.
>> ron
>> ps.......You probably handled it much better than I would have. I might
>> be sitting in a cell right now.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Scott Fitzwater
>> *To:* obra@list.obra.org
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2010 1:22 PM
>> *Subject:* [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!
>>
>> This is simply unbelievable. I was on a 2 hr bike ride on an unexpectedly
>> pleasant day of sunshine. Riding on N Willamette Blvd just past U of P on
>> the bike path toward downtown. I was riding about 22 mph and approached
>> another bike rider in the bike lane who was riding significantly slower. I
>> looked over my left shoulder, saw that I has safe distance from the auto
>> traffic behind me, signaled with my left hand/arm that I was coming out,
>> went around the other bike rider, merged back into the bike lane and
>> continued on at my 22 mph pace.
>>
>> Next thing I know, there is a vehicle behind me siren blipping and lights
>> flashing. Huh, is this guy pulling me over? I guess he is. I stop, the SUV
>> size vehicle pulls over and the cop jumps out saying I failed to yield when
>> I left the bike lane, entered his lane and passed the bike rider. His voice
>> was raised and he's acting angry. I kid you not!! I asked him to calm down
>> and he gets madder. I told him that I felt I safely executed the pass by
>> looking behind, saw the safe distance and signaled. He disagreed again and
>> threatened to ticket me. He asked for my ID. Luckily, I'd forgotten to bring
>> any and he yelled "god damnit" when I told him. The "discussion" was
>> devolving into "yes you did, no I didn't" and he was obviously in control
>> (at one point he said "you're not free to go") so I finally said ok, you're
>> right and just stared at him. He then called on his radio and asked if a car
>> was nearby (presumably to arrest me??). I guess none were since one didn't
>> show up.
>>
>> The dude (who is a Sargent, by the way) then takes down my name, address,
>> phone number and goes back into his vehicle. This whole time we're pulled
>> over on the right, the cop vehicle is blocking the bike lane and all bike
>> riders are having to leave the bike lane, enter the traffic lane and ride
>> around us. Finally, he returns and has written me a warning. I ask what it
>> meant and he said "nothing". I said I was sorry for the hassle, he said
>> nothing so I rode off. Weird experience.
>>
>> Portland's finest? Oink oink.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Eric Aldinger
>
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe:
> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
Eric Aldinger


gschreckchat@comcast.net

2010-01-19

Again, it is not necessay to put your foot down.  The officer and the judge ought to read the law.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pink Panther"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 4:56:07 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

Not all but most. I had a Beaverton Motorcycle Officer threaten to taze me while still on my bike. He came up from behind with his siren on. I was shocked to see him behind me, and managed to let my thought slip to verbalization "You have got to be kiddin me?" His response was, "Im not. Pull over or ill taze you." Did i mention this was out on Bald Peak on some back country road, where there was no traffic or anything. It was for not putting my foot down at a stop sign when i came to a halt(track stand) at an intersection; an intersection you can see a mile in each direction with little to no traffic. He was quite angry and was in my face yelling, close enough he was spitting on me, the entire time. I was polite at first, but he just kept yelling, so i quite talking and stood there silently, which seemed to make him more and more angry. Unfortunately i got a 300 dollar ticket because he "had to teach me and us other dumb cyclist a lesson." Too bad i was too shelled from 4 hrs of a horrific interval and wet ride to think straight enough to get his badge number. Although the judge gave me much of the same "this will teach you a lesson" treatment as well. Got to love our justice system.

From: barretfishner@hotmail.com
To: rabbitxcr@hotmail.com
Subject: FW: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:41:33 -0800

Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:21:27 -0800
From: ewascent@gmail.com
To: rondot@spiritone.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

"Remember it was just that one guy.  Not all the officers. "

Since I race against at least one Portland PD racer I know for a fact that not all cops are biased against cyclists or citizens minding their own business. I have been generally impressed with the demeanor of the cops that have pulled me over for general vehicular chicanery.

On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Ron and Dorothy Strasser < rondot@spiritone.com > wrote:

Scott,
The interaction is finished at this point, but my understanding with regard to Portland Police, is they are supposed to give you their name or business card or some such ID requirement now.  Maybe it has not started yet.  I am pretty sure I would not be trying to take a photo of an officer while he/she is in control of the situation... which even when this type of escalation takes place... the officer is the boss.  If what you describe about your interaction with this person is accurate, he was a bit off the charts in my opinion.  Anybody stopping along that bluff creates a potential hazard.  Especially a motor vehicle.  And you would think a police officer would recognize this more than a Joe or Jane Citizen.  This officer knew that anyone coming along would need to go around you guys (and thus into traffic).... probably causing much more danger than what he said you caused.  I think this guys was on edge.  Many people ride this area and do what you describe.
I pass riders along that section of Willamette Blvd. all the time in the same manner.  This has never happened to me.  I have been passed there as well, but am less apt to pay much attention to when the next motor vehicle also comes by from behind.  I am always on my guard in that area along the bluff because there is real danger there around the potential crashes from motor vehicles turning left and the ones behind them either rear-ending them or skidding into bike lane / riders.  Keep your eyes on the skid marks on that section of roadway and you will see what I mean.  A few years ago I stopped while riding that section (put my bike over on a grass section) and cut blackberries back that were hanging in the bike lane.  A patrol car went by while I was doing this (driver slowed and looked at what I was doing) but did not stop.  The next day a city crew was out mowing and weed-eating.  I do not know if my work had anything to do with that, but I did it because I see a large number of riders along that lane who are pretty intimidated by the fast moving traffic.  They do not need additional obstacles.    Traffic safety in that bike lane (in-bound toward the city center) is very much impacted by anything (people on blades / skateboards, joggers, busses stopped at pick up areas, cars driving or stopped in it, especially any of the above going the wrong direction.  To be honest, my most dangerous situations have been when coming upon the UP cross country team out running / training.  I even talked to their coach about how dangerous it was to have 6-12 riders running in that lane.  I told him I was not as concerned about riders that were very competent on their bikes, but riders not as experienced and the fact that one is never sure what auto drivers will do when those situations arise.  The posted speed there is 35, but I know for a fact that 40-45+ is the norm especially for commuters in the morning and afternoon.  His response did not satisfy me (but I have to admit I have not seen groups (as large) of his team running since) in that his solution was to have his runners move into the lane of traffic to let riders go by.  This can really confuse "everybody".  I say a heads up in that area almost all the time.
Hope your blood pressure is good and the rest of your day is much better.  Since police officers are "people" as well, I hope his BP is lower and he is having a better time about now.  Maybe even coming to grips with the fact he overreacted.  Remember it was just that one guy.  Not all the officers.  No I am not at all employed by the police dept and do not have any family employed by them or other departments (although my mom told my I had an uncle who was a Texas border patrol officer).
take care out there.
ron
ps.......You probably handled it much better than I would have.  I might be sitting in a cell right now.   

----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Fitzwater
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:22 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

This is simply unbelievable. I was on a 2 hr bike ride on an unexpectedly pleasant day of sunshine. Riding on N Willamette Blvd just past U of P on the bike path toward downtown. I was riding about 22 mph and approached another bike rider in the bike lane who was riding significantly slower. I looked over my left shoulder, saw that I has safe distance from the auto traffic behind me, signaled with my left hand/arm that I was coming out, went around the other bike rider, merged back into the bike lane and continued on at my 22 mph pace.

Next thing I know, there is a vehicle behind me siren blipping and lights flashing. Huh, is this guy pulling me over? I guess he is. I stop, the SUV size vehicle pulls over and the cop jumps out saying I failed to yield when I left the bike lane, entered his lane and passed the bike rider. His voice was raised and he's acting angry. I kid you not!! I asked him to calm down and he gets madder. I told him that I felt I safely executed the pass by looking behind, saw the safe distance and signaled. He disagreed again and threatened to ticket me. He asked for my ID. Luckily, I'd forgotten to bring any and he yelled "god damnit" when I told him. The "discussion" was devolving into "yes you did, no I didn't" and he was obviously in control (at one point he said "you're not free to go") so I finally said ok, you're right and just stared at him. He then called on his radio and asked if a car was nearby (presumably to arrest me??). I guess none were since one didn't show up.

The dude (who is a Sargent, by the way) then takes down my name, address, phone number and goes back into his vehicle. This whole time we're pulled over on the right, the cop vehicle is blocking the bike lane and all bike riders are having to leave the bike lane, enter the traffic lane and ride around us. Finally, he returns and has written me a warning. I ask what it meant and he said "nothing". I said I was sorry for the hassle, he said nothing so I rode off. Weird experience.

Portland's finest? Oink oink.

Scott

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Eric Aldinger

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gschreckchat@comcast.net

2010-01-19

Actually, most of them are very nice and most times I deserved to be stopped anyway. I think some of this is a case of being tarred by the bad behavior of the many cyclists that do not follow the rules of the road.  It is unfortunate.

----- Original Message -----
From: "eric aldinger"
To: "Ron and Dorothy Strasser"
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 4:21:27 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

"Remember it was just that one guy.  Not all the officers. "

Since I race against at least one Portland PD racer I know for a fact that not all cops are biased against cyclists or citizens minding their own business. I have been generally impressed with the demeanor of the cops that have pulled me over for general vehicular chicanery.

On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Ron and Dorothy Strasser < rondot@spiritone.com > wrote:

Scott,
The interaction is finished at this point, but my understanding with regard to Portland Police, is they are supposed to give you their name or business card or some such ID requirement now.  Maybe it has not started yet.  I am pretty sure I would not be trying to take a photo of an officer while he/she is in control of the situation... which even when this type of escalation takes place... the officer is the boss.  If what you describe about your interaction with this person is accurate, he was a bit off the charts in my opinion.  Anybody stopping along that bluff creates a potential hazard.  Especially a motor vehicle.  And you would think a police officer would recognize this more than a Joe or Jane Citizen.  This officer knew that anyone coming along would need to go around you guys (and thus into traffic).... probably causing much more danger than what he said you caused.  I think this guys was on edge.  Many people ride this area and do what you describe.
I pass riders along that section of Willamette Blvd. all the time in the same manner.  This has never happened to me.  I have been passed there as well, but am less apt to pay much attention to when the next motor vehicle also comes by from behind.  I am always on my guard in that area along the bluff because there is real danger there around the potential crashes from motor vehicles turning left and the ones behind them either rear-ending them or skidding into bike lane / riders.  Keep your eyes on the skid marks on that section of roadway and you will see what I mean.  A few years ago I stopped while riding that section (put my bike over on a grass section) and cut blackberries back that were hanging in the bike lane.  A patrol car went by while I was doing this (driver slowed and looked at what I was doing) but did not stop.  The next day a city crew was out mowing and weed-eating.  I do not know if my work had anything to do with that, but I did it because I see a large number of riders along that lane who are pretty intimidated by the fast moving traffic.  They do not need additional obstacles.    Traffic safety in that bike lane (in-bound toward the city center) is very much impacted by anything (people on blades / skateboards, joggers, busses stopped at pick up areas, cars driving or stopped in it, especially any of the above going the wrong direction.  To be honest, my most dangerous situations have been when coming upon the UP cross country team out running / training.  I even talked to their coach about how dangerous it was to have 6-12 riders running in that lane.  I told him I was not as concerned about riders that were very competent on their bikes, but riders not as experienced and the fact that one is never sure what auto drivers will do when those situations arise.  The posted speed there is 35, but I know for a fact that 40-45+ is the norm especially for commuters in the morning and afternoon.  His response did not satisfy me (but I have to admit I have not seen groups (as large) of his team running since) in that his solution was to have his runners move into the lane of traffic to let riders go by.  This can really confuse "everybody".  I say a heads up in that area almost all the time.
Hope your blood pressure is good and the rest of your day is much better.  Since police officers are "people" as well, I hope his BP is lower and he is having a better time about now.  Maybe even coming to grips with the fact he overreacted.  Remember it was just that one guy.  Not all the officers.  No I am not at all employed by the police dept and do not have any family employed by them or other departments (although my mom told my I had an uncle who was a Texas border patrol officer).
take care out there.
ron
ps.......You probably handled it much better than I would have.  I might be sitting in a cell right now.   

----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Fitzwater
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:22 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

This is simply unbelievable. I was on a 2 hr bike ride on an unexpectedly pleasant day of sunshine. Riding on N Willamette Blvd just past U of P on the bike path toward downtown. I was riding about 22 mph and approached another bike rider in the bike lane who was riding significantly slower. I looked over my left shoulder, saw that I has safe distance from the auto traffic behind me, signaled with my left hand/arm that I was coming out, went around the other bike rider, merged back into the bike lane and continued on at my 22 mph pace.

Next thing I know, there is a vehicle behind me siren blipping and lights flashing. Huh, is this guy pulling me over? I guess he is. I stop, the SUV size vehicle pulls over and the cop jumps out saying I failed to yield when I left the bike lane, entered his lane and passed the bike rider. His voice was raised and he's acting angry. I kid you not!! I asked him to calm down and he gets madder. I told him that I felt I safely executed the pass by looking behind, saw the safe distance and signaled. He disagreed again and threatened to ticket me. He asked for my ID. Luckily, I'd forgotten to bring any and he yelled "god damnit" when I told him. The "discussion" was devolving into "yes you did, no I didn't" and he was obviously in control (at one point he said "you're not free to go") so I finally said ok, you're right and just stared at him. He then called on his radio and asked if a car was nearby (presumably to arrest me??). I guess none were since one didn't show up.

The dude (who is a Sargent, by the way) then takes down my name, address, phone number and goes back into his vehicle. This whole time we're pulled over on the right, the cop vehicle is blocking the bike lane and all bike riders are having to leave the bike lane, enter the traffic lane and ride around us. Finally, he returns and has written me a warning. I ask what it meant and he said "nothing". I said I was sorry for the hassle, he said nothing so I rode off. Weird experience.

Portland's finest? Oink oink.

Scott

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--
Eric Aldinger

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gschreckchat@comcast.net

2010-01-19

Interesting in that it is not a requirement that you put your foot down.  Just that you stop completely.

----- Original Message -----
From: rosenfeldma@gmail.com
To: "Scott Fitzwater" , obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:29:52 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

Well that will put a damper on your day.

Reminds me of the ticket a very portly officer gave me in lake oswego for failure to put my foot down at a stop sign.  He was yelling so loud and he was turning purple.

You cant win with them so you did the right thing in staying calm.

Sent via Android.

----- Reply message -----
From: "Scott Fitzwater"
Date: Mon, Jan 18, 2010 1:22 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!
To:

This is simply unbelievable. I was on a 2 hr bike ride on an unexpectedly pleasant day of sunshine. Riding on N Willamette Blvd just past U of P on the bike path toward downtown. I was riding about 22 mph and approached another bike rider in the bike lane who was riding significantly slower. I looked over my left shoulder, saw that I has safe distance from the auto traffic behind me, signaled with my left hand/arm that I was coming out, went around the other bike rider, merged back into the bike lane and continued on at my 22 mph pace.

Next thing I know, there is a vehicle behind me siren blipping and lights flashing. Huh, is this guy pulling me over? I guess he is. I stop, the SUV size vehicle pulls over and the cop jumps out saying I failed to yield when I left the bike lane, entered his lane and passed the bike rider. His voice was raised and he's acting angry. I kid you not!! I asked him to calm down and he gets madder. I told him that I felt I safely executed the pass by looking behind, saw the safe distance and signaled. He disagreed again and threatened to ticket me. He asked for my ID. Luckily, I'd forgotten to bring any and he yelled "god damnit" when I told him. The "discussion" was devolving into "yes you did, no I didn't" and he was obviously in control (at one point he said "you're not free to go") so I finally said ok, you're right and just stared at him. He then called on his radio and asked if a car was nearby (presumably to arrest me??). I guess none were since one didn't show up.

The dude (who is a Sargent, by the way) then takes down my name, address, phone number and goes back into his vehicle. This whole time we're pulled over on the right, the cop vehicle is blocking the bike lane and all bike riders are having to leave the bike lane, enter the traffic lane and ride around us. Finally, he returns and has written me a warning. I ask what it meant and he said "nothing". I said I was sorry for the hassle, he said nothing so I rode off. Weird experience.

Portland's finest? Oink oink.

Scott

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Joe Cipale

2010-01-19

I tend to lump San Jose in with SF. I shouldnt but...
Monterey is nice too.

trispoke wrote:

> Joe,
> Having lived some of the same places, I'm frankly quite amazed. My
> list includes:
> KS
> Memphis
> W Massachusetts
> DC
> Boston
> S NJ coast
> SF
> Monterey
> San Jose
>
> I have the EXACT opposite experience. Nowhere else have I found the
> average level of respect and deference from drivers to be even close.
> It's rare to have a ride where someone screams obscenities, honks
> repeatedly, throws something at me or actively tries to intimidate me
> with their car. All of those other places I felt much more at risk on
> my bike.
>
> I have to wonder if we've been living on the same planet.
>
> Cheers,
> Ian Penner
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 19, 2010, at 8:29 AM, "Joe Cipale" wrote:
>
> > Sorry folks,
> >
> > Everytime I hear that PDX is the 'friendliset bike city in America',
> > I simply have to laugh. I have ridden in MANY cities that treay
> > cyclists 10 TIMES better than Portland does:
> > SF
> > LA,
> > Seattle,
> > Phoenix,
> > San Diego,
> > Miami,
> > ...
> >
> > Tell me when to stop.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > Pink Panther wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Not all but most. I had a Beaverton Motorcycle Officer threaten to
> >> taze me =
> >> while still on my bike. He came up from behind with his siren on. I
> >> was sho=
> >> cked to see him behind me, and managed to let my thought slip to
> >> verbalizat=
> >> ion "You have got to be kiddin me?" His response was, "Im not. Pull
> >> over or=
> >> ill taze you." Did i mention this was out on Bald Peak on some back
> >> countr=
> >> y road, where there was no traffic or anything. It was for not
> >> putting my f=
> >> oot down at a stop sign when i came to a halt(track stand) at an
> >> intersecti=
> >> on; an intersection you can see a mile in each direction with
> >> little to no =
> >> traffic. He was quite angry and was in my face yelling, close
> >> enough he was=
> >> spitting on me, the entire time. I was polite at first, but he just
> >> kept y=
> >> elling, so i quite talking and stood there silently, which seemed
> >> to make h=
> >> im more and more angry. Unfortunately i got a 300 dollar ticket
> >> because he =
> >> "had to teach me and us other dumb cyclist a lesson." Too bad i was
> >> too she=
> >> lled from 4 hrs of a horrific interval and wet ride to think
> >> straight enoug=
> >> h to get his badge number. Although the judge gave me much of the
> >> same "thi=
> >> s will teach you a lesson" treatment as well. Got to love our
> >> justice syste=
> >> m.
> >>
> >> From: barretfishner@hotmail.com
> >> To: rabbitxcr@hotmail.com
> >> Subject: FW: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a
> >> bike ride!
> >> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:41:33 -0800
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:21:27 -0800
> >> From: ewascent@gmail.com
> >> To: rondot@spiritone.com
> >> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> >> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a
> >> bike ride!
> >>
> >>
> >> "Remember it was just that=20
> >> one guy. Not all the officers."
> >>
> >> Since I race against at least one Portland PD racer I know for a
> >> fact that =
> >> not all cops are biased against cyclists or citizens minding their
> >> own busi=
> >> ness. I have been generally impressed with the demeanor of the cops
> >> that ha=
> >> ve pulled me over for general vehicular chicanery.=20
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Ron and Dorothy Strasser
> >> >> .com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Scott,
> >> The interaction is finished at this point, but=20
> >> my understanding with regard to Portland Police, is they are
> >> supposed=20
> >> to give you their name or business card or some such ID requirement
> >> now.=20=
> >> =20
> >> Maybe it has not started yet. I am pretty sure I would not be
> >> trying to=20
> >> take a photo of an officer while he/she is in control of the
> >> situation... w=
> >> hich=20
> >> even when this type of escalation takes place... the officer is the
> >> boss.=
> >> =20=20
> >> If what you describe about your interaction with this person is
> >> accurate, h=
> >> e was=20
> >> a bit off the charts in my opinion. Anybody stopping along that
> >> bluff=20
> >> creates a potential hazard. Especially a motor vehicle. And you=20
> >> would think a police officer would recognize this more than a Joe
> >> or Jane=
> >> =20
> >> Citizen. This officer knew that anyone coming along would need to
> >> go=20
> >> around you guys (and thus into traffic).... probably causing much
> >> more dang=
> >> er=20
> >> than what he said you caused. I think this guys was on edge.
> >> Many=20
> >> people ride this area and do what you describe.
> >> I pass riders along that section of Willamette=20
> >> Blvd. all the time in the same manner. This has never happened to=20
> >> me. I have been passed there as well, but am less apt to pay much=20
> >> attention to when the next motor vehicle also comes by from
> >> behind. I am=
> >> =20
> >> always on my guard in that area along the bluff because there is
> >> real dange=
> >> r=20
> >> there around the potential crashes from motor vehicles turning left
> >> and the=
> >> ones=20
> >> behind them either rear-ending them or skidding into bike lane /
> >> riders.=20=
> >> =20
> >> Keep your eyes on the skid marks on that section of roadway and you
> >> will se=
> >> e=20
> >> what I mean. A few years ago I stopped while riding that section
> >> (put my=
> >> =20
> >> bike over on a grass section) and cut blackberries back that were
> >> hanging i=
> >> n the=20
> >> bike lane. A patrol car went by while I was doing this (driver
> >> slowed and=
> >> =20
> >> looked at what I was doing) but did not stop. The next day a city
> >> crew was=
> >> =20
> >> out mowing and weed-eating. I do not know if my work had anything
> >> to=20
> >> do with that, but I did it because I see a large number of riders
> >> along tha=
> >> t=20
> >> lane who are pretty intimidated by the fast moving traffic. They
> >> do=20
> >> not need additional obstacles. Traffic safety in that bike=20
> >> lane (in-bound toward the city center) is very much impacted by
> >> anything (p=
> >> eople=20
> >> on blades / skateboards, joggers, busses stopped at pick up areas,
> >> cars dri=
> >> ving=20
> >> or stopped in it, especially any of the above going the wrong=20
> >> direction. To be honest, my most dangerous situations have been
> >> when=20
> >> coming upon the UP cross country team out running / training. I
> >> even=20
> >> talked to their coach about how dangerous it was to have 6-12
> >> riders runnin=
> >> g in=20
> >> that lane. I told him I was not as concerned about riders that=20
> >> were very competent on their bikes, but riders not as experienced
> >> and the f=
> >> act=20
> >> that one is never sure what auto drivers will do when those
> >> situations=20
> >> arise. The posted speed there is 35, but I know for a fact that=20
> >> 40-45+ is the norm especially for commuters in the morning and
> >> afternoon.=
> >> =20=20
> >> His response did not satisfy me (but I have to admit I have not
> >> seen groups=
> >> (as=20
> >> large) of his team running since) in that his solution was to have
> >> his runn=
> >> ers=20
> >> move into the lane of traffic to let riders go by. This can really
> >> confuse=
> >> =20
> >> "everybody". I say a heads up in that area almost all the=20
> >> time.
> >> Hope your blood pressure is good and the rest of=20
> >> your day is much better. Since police officers are "people" as
> >> well, I=20
> >> hope his BP is lower and he is having a better time about now.
> >> Maybe even=
> >> =20
> >> coming to grips with the fact he overreacted. Remember it was just
> >> that=20
> >> one guy. Not all the officers. No I am not at all employed by
> >> the=20
> >> police dept and do not have any family employed by them or other
> >> department=
> >> s=20
> >> (although my mom told my I had an uncle who was a Texas border
> >> patrol=20
> >> officer).
> >> take care out there.
> >> ron
> >> ps.......You probably handled it much better than I=20
> >> would have. I might be sitting in a cell right now.=20=20=20=20
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----=20
> >> =20=20
> >> From:=20
> >> Scott=20
> >> Fitzwater=20
> >> To: obra@list.obra.org=20
> >>
> >> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:22=20
> >> PM
> >> Subject: [OBRA Chat] I almost got=20
> >> arrested today while on a bike ride!
> >> =20=20
> >> This is simply unbelievable. I was on a 2 hr bike ride on an=20
> >> unexpectedly pleasant day of sunshine. Riding on N Willamette Blvd
> >> just p=
> >> ast U=20
> >> of P on the bike path toward downtown. I was riding about 22 mph
> >> and=20
> >> approached another bike rider in the bike lane who was riding
> >> significant=
> >> ly=20
> >> slower. I looked over my left shoulder, saw that I has safe
> >> distance from=
> >> the=20
> >> auto traffic behind me, signaled with my left hand/arm that I was
> >> coming =
> >> out,=20
> >> went around the other bike rider, merged back into the bike lane
> >> and cont=
> >> inued=20
> >> on at my 22 mph pace.=20
> >>
> >> Next thing I know, there is a vehicle behind me=20
> >> siren blipping and lights flashing. Huh, is this guy pulling me
> >> over? I g=
> >> uess=20
> >> he is. I stop, the SUV size vehicle pulls over and the cop jumps
> >> out sayi=
> >> ng I=20
> >> failed to yield when I left the bike lane, entered his lane and
> >> passed th=
> >> e=20
> >> bike rider. His voice was raised and he's acting angry. I kid you
> >> not!! I=
> >> =20
> >> asked him to calm down and he gets madder. I told him that I felt
> >> I safel=
> >> y=20
> >> executed the pass by looking behind, saw the safe distance and
> >> signaled. =
> >> He=20
> >> disagreed again and threatened to ticket me. He asked for my ID.
> >> Luckily,=
> >> I'd=20
> >> forgotten to bring any and he yelled "god damnit" when I told him.
> >> The=20
> >> "discussion" was devolving into "yes you did, no I didn't" and he
> >> was=20
> >> obviously in control (at one point he said "you're not free to
> >> go") so I=
> >> =20
> >> finally said ok, you're right and just stared at him. He then
> >> called on h=
> >> is=20
> >> radio and asked if a car was nearby (presumably to arrest me??). I
> >> guess =
> >> none=20
> >> were since one didn't show up.
> >>
> >> The dude (who is a Sargent, by the way)=20
> >> then takes down my name, address, phone number and goes back into
> >> his veh=
> >> icle.=20
> >> This whole time we're pulled over on the right, the cop vehicle is
> >> blocki=
> >> ng=20
> >> the bike lane and all bike riders are having to leave the bike
> >> lane, ente=
> >> r the=20
> >> traffic lane and ride around us. Finally, he returns and has
> >> written me a=
> >> =20
> >> warning. I ask what it meant and he said "nothing". I said I was
> >> sorry fo=
> >> r the=20
> >> hassle, he said nothing so I rode off. Weird experience.
> >>
> >> Portland's=20
> >> finest? Oink oink.
> >>
> >> Scott
> >>
> >> =20=20
> >> =20=20
> >>
> >>
> >> =20=20
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing=20
> >> list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe:=20
> >> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >>
> >>
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --=20
> >> Eric Aldinger
> >> =20=09=09=20=09=20=20=20=09=09=20=20
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> >> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/=
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


trispoke@aol.com

2010-01-19

Joe,
Having lived some of the same places, I'm frankly quite amazed. My
list includes:
KS
Memphis
W Massachusetts
DC
Boston
S NJ coast
SF
Monterey
San Jose

I have the EXACT opposite experience. Nowhere else have I found the
average level of respect and deference from drivers to be even close.
It's rare to have a ride where someone screams obscenities, honks
repeatedly, throws something at me or actively tries to intimidate me
with their car. All of those other places I felt much more at risk on
my bike.

I have to wonder if we've been living on the same planet.

Cheers,
Ian Penner

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2010, at 8:29 AM, "Joe Cipale" wrote:

> Sorry folks,
>
> Everytime I hear that PDX is the 'friendliset bike city in America',
> I simply have to laugh. I have ridden in MANY cities that treay
> cyclists 10 TIMES better than Portland does:
> SF
> LA,
> Seattle,
> Phoenix,
> San Diego,
> Miami,
> ...
>
> Tell me when to stop.
>
> Joe
>
> Pink Panther wrote:
>
>>
>> Not all but most. I had a Beaverton Motorcycle Officer threaten to
>> taze me =
>> while still on my bike. He came up from behind with his siren on. I
>> was sho=
>> cked to see him behind me, and managed to let my thought slip to
>> verbalizat=
>> ion "You have got to be kiddin me?" His response was, "Im not. Pull
>> over or=
>> ill taze you." Did i mention this was out on Bald Peak on some back
>> countr=
>> y road, where there was no traffic or anything. It was for not
>> putting my f=
>> oot down at a stop sign when i came to a halt(track stand) at an
>> intersecti=
>> on; an intersection you can see a mile in each direction with
>> little to no =
>> traffic. He was quite angry and was in my face yelling, close
>> enough he was=
>> spitting on me, the entire time. I was polite at first, but he just
>> kept y=
>> elling, so i quite talking and stood there silently, which seemed
>> to make h=
>> im more and more angry. Unfortunately i got a 300 dollar ticket
>> because he =
>> "had to teach me and us other dumb cyclist a lesson." Too bad i was
>> too she=
>> lled from 4 hrs of a horrific interval and wet ride to think
>> straight enoug=
>> h to get his badge number. Although the judge gave me much of the
>> same "thi=
>> s will teach you a lesson" treatment as well. Got to love our
>> justice syste=
>> m.
>>
>> From: barretfishner@hotmail.com
>> To: rabbitxcr@hotmail.com
>> Subject: FW: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a
>> bike ride!
>> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:41:33 -0800
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:21:27 -0800
>> From: ewascent@gmail.com
>> To: rondot@spiritone.com
>> CC: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a
>> bike ride!
>>
>>
>> "Remember it was just that=20
>> one guy. Not all the officers."
>>
>> Since I race against at least one Portland PD racer I know for a
>> fact that =
>> not all cops are biased against cyclists or citizens minding their
>> own busi=
>> ness. I have been generally impressed with the demeanor of the cops
>> that ha=
>> ve pulled me over for general vehicular chicanery.=20
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Ron and Dorothy Strasser
>> > .com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Scott,
>> The interaction is finished at this point, but=20
>> my understanding with regard to Portland Police, is they are
>> supposed=20
>> to give you their name or business card or some such ID requirement
>> now.=20=
>> =20
>> Maybe it has not started yet. I am pretty sure I would not be
>> trying to=20
>> take a photo of an officer while he/she is in control of the
>> situation... w=
>> hich=20
>> even when this type of escalation takes place... the officer is the
>> boss.=
>> =20=20
>> If what you describe about your interaction with this person is
>> accurate, h=
>> e was=20
>> a bit off the charts in my opinion. Anybody stopping along that
>> bluff=20
>> creates a potential hazard. Especially a motor vehicle. And you=20
>> would think a police officer would recognize this more than a Joe
>> or Jane=
>> =20
>> Citizen. This officer knew that anyone coming along would need to
>> go=20
>> around you guys (and thus into traffic).... probably causing much
>> more dang=
>> er=20
>> than what he said you caused. I think this guys was on edge.
>> Many=20
>> people ride this area and do what you describe.
>> I pass riders along that section of Willamette=20
>> Blvd. all the time in the same manner. This has never happened to=20
>> me. I have been passed there as well, but am less apt to pay much=20
>> attention to when the next motor vehicle also comes by from
>> behind. I am=
>> =20
>> always on my guard in that area along the bluff because there is
>> real dange=
>> r=20
>> there around the potential crashes from motor vehicles turning left
>> and the=
>> ones=20
>> behind them either rear-ending them or skidding into bike lane /
>> riders.=20=
>> =20
>> Keep your eyes on the skid marks on that section of roadway and you
>> will se=
>> e=20
>> what I mean. A few years ago I stopped while riding that section
>> (put my=
>> =20
>> bike over on a grass section) and cut blackberries back that were
>> hanging i=
>> n the=20
>> bike lane. A patrol car went by while I was doing this (driver
>> slowed and=
>> =20
>> looked at what I was doing) but did not stop. The next day a city
>> crew was=
>> =20
>> out mowing and weed-eating. I do not know if my work had anything
>> to=20
>> do with that, but I did it because I see a large number of riders
>> along tha=
>> t=20
>> lane who are pretty intimidated by the fast moving traffic. They
>> do=20
>> not need additional obstacles. Traffic safety in that bike=20
>> lane (in-bound toward the city center) is very much impacted by
>> anything (p=
>> eople=20
>> on blades / skateboards, joggers, busses stopped at pick up areas,
>> cars dri=
>> ving=20
>> or stopped in it, especially any of the above going the wrong=20
>> direction. To be honest, my most dangerous situations have been
>> when=20
>> coming upon the UP cross country team out running / training. I
>> even=20
>> talked to their coach about how dangerous it was to have 6-12
>> riders runnin=
>> g in=20
>> that lane. I told him I was not as concerned about riders that=20
>> were very competent on their bikes, but riders not as experienced
>> and the f=
>> act=20
>> that one is never sure what auto drivers will do when those
>> situations=20
>> arise. The posted speed there is 35, but I know for a fact that=20
>> 40-45+ is the norm especially for commuters in the morning and
>> afternoon.=
>> =20=20
>> His response did not satisfy me (but I have to admit I have not
>> seen groups=
>> (as=20
>> large) of his team running since) in that his solution was to have
>> his runn=
>> ers=20
>> move into the lane of traffic to let riders go by. This can really
>> confuse=
>> =20
>> "everybody". I say a heads up in that area almost all the=20
>> time.
>> Hope your blood pressure is good and the rest of=20
>> your day is much better. Since police officers are "people" as
>> well, I=20
>> hope his BP is lower and he is having a better time about now.
>> Maybe even=
>> =20
>> coming to grips with the fact he overreacted. Remember it was just
>> that=20
>> one guy. Not all the officers. No I am not at all employed by
>> the=20
>> police dept and do not have any family employed by them or other
>> department=
>> s=20
>> (although my mom told my I had an uncle who was a Texas border
>> patrol=20
>> officer).
>> take care out there.
>> ron
>> ps.......You probably handled it much better than I=20
>> would have. I might be sitting in a cell right now.=20=20=20=20
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----=20
>> =20=20
>> From:=20
>> Scott=20
>> Fitzwater=20
>> To: obra@list.obra.org=20
>>
>> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:22=20
>> PM
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] I almost got=20
>> arrested today while on a bike ride!
>> =20=20
>> This is simply unbelievable. I was on a 2 hr bike ride on an=20
>> unexpectedly pleasant day of sunshine. Riding on N Willamette Blvd
>> just p=
>> ast U=20
>> of P on the bike path toward downtown. I was riding about 22 mph
>> and=20
>> approached another bike rider in the bike lane who was riding
>> significant=
>> ly=20
>> slower. I looked over my left shoulder, saw that I has safe
>> distance from=
>> the=20
>> auto traffic behind me, signaled with my left hand/arm that I was
>> coming =
>> out,=20
>> went around the other bike rider, merged back into the bike lane
>> and cont=
>> inued=20
>> on at my 22 mph pace.=20
>>
>> Next thing I know, there is a vehicle behind me=20
>> siren blipping and lights flashing. Huh, is this guy pulling me
>> over? I g=
>> uess=20
>> he is. I stop, the SUV size vehicle pulls over and the cop jumps
>> out sayi=
>> ng I=20
>> failed to yield when I left the bike lane, entered his lane and
>> passed th=
>> e=20
>> bike rider. His voice was raised and he's acting angry. I kid you
>> not!! I=
>> =20
>> asked him to calm down and he gets madder. I told him that I felt
>> I safel=
>> y=20
>> executed the pass by looking behind, saw the safe distance and
>> signaled. =
>> He=20
>> disagreed again and threatened to ticket me. He asked for my ID.
>> Luckily,=
>> I'd=20
>> forgotten to bring any and he yelled "god damnit" when I told him.
>> The=20
>> "discussion" was devolving into "yes you did, no I didn't" and he
>> was=20
>> obviously in control (at one point he said "you're not free to
>> go") so I=
>> =20
>> finally said ok, you're right and just stared at him. He then
>> called on h=
>> is=20
>> radio and asked if a car was nearby (presumably to arrest me??). I
>> guess =
>> none=20
>> were since one didn't show up.
>>
>> The dude (who is a Sargent, by the way)=20
>> then takes down my name, address, phone number and goes back into
>> his veh=
>> icle.=20
>> This whole time we're pulled over on the right, the cop vehicle is
>> blocki=
>> ng=20
>> the bike lane and all bike riders are having to leave the bike
>> lane, ente=
>> r the=20
>> traffic lane and ride around us. Finally, he returns and has
>> written me a=
>> =20
>> warning. I ask what it meant and he said "nothing". I said I was
>> sorry fo=
>> r the=20
>> hassle, he said nothing so I rode off. Weird experience.
>>
>> Portland's=20
>> finest? Oink oink.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> =20=20
>> =20=20
>>
>>
>> =20=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing=20
>> list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe:=20
>> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> OBRA mailing list
>>
>>
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --=20
>> Eric Aldinger
>> =20=09=09=20=09=20=20=20=09=09=20=20
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/=
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


eric aldinger

2010-01-19

Los Angeles must have changed since I lived there. It was not a friendly
place to ride, more like a waste land strewn with the wreckage of dented
dentist bikes and flaming Huffies.

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Mike Murray wrote:

> Miami!!?? Miami is an awful place to ride a bike. One of the worst.
> Detroit is better. Not that Detroit is a good place...for anything.
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Joe Cipale"
> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 08:29:13
> To: Pink Panther
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!
>
> Sorry folks,
>
> Everytime I hear that PDX is the 'friendliset bike city in America', I
> simply have to laugh. I have ridden in MANY cities that treay cyclists 10
> TIMES better than Portland does:
> SF
> LA,
> Seattle,
> Phoenix,
> San Diego,
> Miami,
> ...
>
> Tell me when to stop.
>
> Joe
>
> Pink Panther wrote:
>
> >
> > Not all but most. I had a Beaverton Motorcycle Officer threaten to taze
> me =
> > while still on my bike. He came up from behind with his siren on. I was
> sho=
> > cked to see him behind me, and managed to let my thought slip to
> verbalizat=
> > ion "You have got to be kiddin me?" His response was, "Im not. Pull over
> or=
> > ill taze you." Did i mention this was out on Bald Peak on some back
> countr=
> > y road, where there was no traffic or anything. It was for not putting my
> f=
> > oot down at a stop sign when i came to a halt(track stand) at an
> intersecti=
> > on; an intersection you can see a mile in each direction with little to
> no =
> > traffic. He was quite angry and was in my face yelling, close enough he
> was=
> > spitting on me, the entire time. I was polite at first, but he just kept
> y=
> > elling, so i quite talking and stood there silently, which seemed to make
> h=
> > im more and more angry. Unfortunately i got a 300 dollar ticket because
> he =
> > "had to teach me and us other dumb cyclist a lesson." Too bad i was too
> she=
> > lled from 4 hrs of a horrific interval and wet ride to think straight
> enoug=
> > h to get his badge number. Although the judge gave me much of the same
> "thi=
> > s will teach you a lesson" treatment as well. Got to love our justice
> syste=
> > m.
> >
> > From: barretfishner@hotmail.com
> > To: rabbitxcr@hotmail.com
> > Subject: FW: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike
> ride!
> > Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:41:33 -0800
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:21:27 -0800
> > From: ewascent@gmail.com
> > To: rondot@spiritone.com
> > CC: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike
> ride!
> >
> >
> > "Remember it was just that=20
> > one guy. Not all the officers."
> >
> > Since I race against at least one Portland PD racer I know for a fact
> that =
> > not all cops are biased against cyclists or citizens minding their own
> busi=
> > ness. I have been generally impressed with the demeanor of the cops that
> ha=
> > ve pulled me over for general vehicular chicanery.=20
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Ron and Dorothy Strasser
> > .com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Scott,
> > The interaction is finished at this point, but=20
> > my understanding with regard to Portland Police, is they are supposed=20
> > to give you their name or business card or some such ID requirement
> now.=20=
> > =20
> > Maybe it has not started yet. I am pretty sure I would not be trying
> to=20
> > take a photo of an officer while he/she is in control of the situation...
> w=
> > hich=20
> > even when this type of escalation takes place... the officer is the
> boss.=
> > =20=20
> > If what you describe about your interaction with this person is accurate,
> h=
> > e was=20
> > a bit off the charts in my opinion. Anybody stopping along that bluff=20
> > creates a potential hazard. Especially a motor vehicle. And you=20
> > would think a police officer would recognize this more than a Joe or
> Jane=
> > =20
> > Citizen. This officer knew that anyone coming along would need to go=20
> > around you guys (and thus into traffic).... probably causing much more
> dang=
> > er=20
> > than what he said you caused. I think this guys was on edge. Many=20
> > people ride this area and do what you describe.
> > I pass riders along that section of Willamette=20
> > Blvd. all the time in the same manner. This has never happened to=20
> > me. I have been passed there as well, but am less apt to pay much=20
> > attention to when the next motor vehicle also comes by from behind. I
> am=
> > =20
> > always on my guard in that area along the bluff because there is real
> dange=
> > r=20
> > there around the potential crashes from motor vehicles turning left and
> the=
> > ones=20
> > behind them either rear-ending them or skidding into bike lane /
> riders.=20=
> > =20
> > Keep your eyes on the skid marks on that section of roadway and you will
> se=
> > e=20
> > what I mean. A few years ago I stopped while riding that section (put
> my=
> > =20
> > bike over on a grass section) and cut blackberries back that were hanging
> i=
> > n the=20
> > bike lane. A patrol car went by while I was doing this (driver slowed
> and=
> > =20
> > looked at what I was doing) but did not stop. The next day a city crew
> was=
> > =20
> > out mowing and weed-eating. I do not know if my work had anything to=20
> > do with that, but I did it because I see a large number of riders along
> tha=
> > t=20
> > lane who are pretty intimidated by the fast moving traffic. They do=20
> > not need additional obstacles. Traffic safety in that bike=20
> > lane (in-bound toward the city center) is very much impacted by anything
> (p=
> > eople=20
> > on blades / skateboards, joggers, busses stopped at pick up areas, cars
> dri=
> > ving=20
> > or stopped in it, especially any of the above going the wrong=20
> > direction. To be honest, my most dangerous situations have been when=20
> > coming upon the UP cross country team out running / training. I even=20
> > talked to their coach about how dangerous it was to have 6-12 riders
> runnin=
> > g in=20
> > that lane. I told him I was not as concerned about riders that=20
> > were very competent on their bikes, but riders not as experienced and the
> f=
> > act=20
> > that one is never sure what auto drivers will do when those situations=20
> > arise. The posted speed there is 35, but I know for a fact that=20
> > 40-45+ is the norm especially for commuters in the morning and
> afternoon.=
> > =20=20
> > His response did not satisfy me (but I have to admit I have not seen
> groups=
> > (as=20
> > large) of his team running since) in that his solution was to have his
> runn=
> > ers=20
> > move into the lane of traffic to let riders go by. This can really
> confuse=
> > =20
> > "everybody". I say a heads up in that area almost all the=20
> > time.
> > Hope your blood pressure is good and the rest of=20
> > your day is much better. Since police officers are "people" as well,
> I=20
> > hope his BP is lower and he is having a better time about now. Maybe
> even=
> > =20
> > coming to grips with the fact he overreacted. Remember it was just
> that=20
> > one guy. Not all the officers. No I am not at all employed by the=20
> > police dept and do not have any family employed by them or other
> department=
> > s=20
> > (although my mom told my I had an uncle who was a Texas border patrol=20
> > officer).
> > take care out there.
> > ron
> > ps.......You probably handled it much better than I=20
> > would have. I might be sitting in a cell right now.=20=20=20=20
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----=20
> > =20=20
> > From:=20
> > Scott=20
> > Fitzwater=20
> > To: obra@list.obra.org=20
> >
> > Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:22=20
> > PM
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] I almost got=20
> > arrested today while on a bike ride!
> > =20=20
> > This is simply unbelievable. I was on a 2 hr bike ride on an=20
> > unexpectedly pleasant day of sunshine. Riding on N Willamette Blvd just
> p=
> > ast U=20
> > of P on the bike path toward downtown. I was riding about 22 mph and=20
> > approached another bike rider in the bike lane who was riding
> significant=
> > ly=20
> > slower. I looked over my left shoulder, saw that I has safe distance
> from=
> > the=20
> > auto traffic behind me, signaled with my left hand/arm that I was
> coming =
> > out,=20
> > went around the other bike rider, merged back into the bike lane and
> cont=
> > inued=20
> > on at my 22 mph pace.=20
> >
> > Next thing I know, there is a vehicle behind me=20
> > siren blipping and lights flashing. Huh, is this guy pulling me over? I
> g=
> > uess=20
> > he is. I stop, the SUV size vehicle pulls over and the cop jumps out
> sayi=
> > ng I=20
> > failed to yield when I left the bike lane, entered his lane and passed
> th=
> > e=20
> > bike rider. His voice was raised and he's acting angry. I kid you not!!
> I=
> > =20
> > asked him to calm down and he gets madder. I told him that I felt I
> safel=
> > y=20
> > executed the pass by looking behind, saw the safe distance and
> signaled. =
> > He=20
> > disagreed again and threatened to ticket me. He asked for my ID.
> Luckily,=
> > I'd=20
> > forgotten to bring any and he yelled "god damnit" when I told him.
> The=20
> > "discussion" was devolving into "yes you did, no I didn't" and he
> was=20
> > obviously in control (at one point he said "you're not free to go") so
> I=
> > =20
> > finally said ok, you're right and just stared at him. He then called on
> h=
> > is=20
> > radio and asked if a car was nearby (presumably to arrest me??). I
> guess =
> > none=20
> > were since one didn't show up.
> >
> > The dude (who is a Sargent, by the way)=20
> > then takes down my name, address, phone number and goes back into his
> veh=
> > icle.=20
> > This whole time we're pulled over on the right, the cop vehicle is
> blocki=
> > ng=20
> > the bike lane and all bike riders are having to leave the bike lane,
> ente=
> > r the=20
> > traffic lane and ride around us. Finally, he returns and has written me
> a=
> > =20
> > warning. I ask what it meant and he said "nothing". I said I was sorry
> fo=
> > r the=20
> > hassle, he said nothing so I rode off. Weird experience.
> >
> > Portland's=20
> > finest? Oink oink.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > =20=20
> > =20=20
> >
> >
> > =20=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing=20
> > list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe:=20
> > obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > OBRA mailing list
> >
> >
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --=20
> > Eric Aldinger
> > =20=09=09=20=09=20=20=20=09=09=20=20
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/=
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
Eric Aldinger


Rick C Johnson

2010-01-19

The San Diego area is very much a "where you ride and when" affair. The
difference between a pleasant ride and a harrowing one can be as simple
as choosing one road over another, or the time of day. In general I
avoid the "sprawl connector routes" and those leading to the casinos. I
don't ride the time of day when people are rushing to and from their
distant jobs. Then it can be beautiful.
The rest of the time the place drives me crazy...

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

"Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana

Kevin wrote:

> Wow, I've spent 6 weeks riding in San Diego since June. To include
> San Diego on that list you must have been riding in a different
> location than I did. I was SO glad to get back to Oregon where the
> roads are in MUCH better shape and the drivers, while not
> perfect, are a lot more "tolerant" of cyclists.
>
> Kevin
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> What is happening in Kevin's corner of the bike world?
> http://the-whir-of-spokes-in-air.blogspot.com
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Joe Cipale
> *To:* Pink Panther
> *Cc:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Sent:* Tue, January 19, 2010 8:29:13 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike
> ride!
>
> Sorry folks,
>
> Everytime I hear that PDX is the 'friendliset bike city in America', I
> simply have to laugh. I have ridden in MANY cities that treay
> cyclists 10 TIMES better than Portland does:
> SF
> LA,
> Seattle,
> Phoenix,
> San Diego,
> Miami,
> ...
>
> Tell me when to stop.
>
> Joe
>
> Pink Panther wrote:
>
> >
> > Not all but most. I had a Beaverton Motorcycle Officer threaten to
> taze me =
> > while still on my bike. He came up from behind with his siren on. I
> was sho=
> > cked to see him behind me, and managed to let my thought slip to
> verbalizat=
> > ion "You have got to be kiddin me?" His response was, "Im not. Pull
> over or=
> > ill taze you." Did i mention this was out on Bald Peak on some back
> countr=
> > y road, where there was no traffic or anything. It was for not
> putting my f=
> > oot down at a stop sign when i came to a halt(track stand) at an
> intersecti=
> > on; an intersection you can see a mile in each direction with little
> to no =
> > traffic. He was quite angry and was in my face yelling, close enough
> he was=
> > spitting on me, the entire time. I was polite at first, but he just
> kept y=
> > elling, so i quite talking and stood there silently, which seemed to
> make h=
> > im more and more angry. Unfortunately i got a 300 dollar ticket
> because he =
> > "had to teach me and us other dumb cyclist a lesson." Too bad i was
> too she=
> > lled from 4 hrs of a horrific interval and wet ride to think
> straight enoug=
> > h to get his badge number. Although the judge gave me much of the
> same "thi=
> > s will teach you a lesson" treatment as well. Got to love our
> justice syste=
> > m.
> >
> > From: barretfishner@hotmail.com
> > To: rabbitxcr@hotmail.com
> > Subject: FW: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike
> ride!
> > Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:41:33 -0800
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:21:27 -0800
> > From: ewascent@gmail.com
> > To: rondot@spiritone.com
> > CC: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike
> ride!
> >
> >
> > "Remember it was just that=20
> > one guy. Not all the officers."
> >
> > Since I race against at least one Portland PD racer I know for a
> fact that =
> > not all cops are biased against cyclists or citizens minding their
> own busi=
> > ness. I have been generally impressed with the demeanor of the cops
> that ha=
> > ve pulled me over for general vehicular chicanery.=20
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Ron and Dorothy Strasser
> > .com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Scott,
> > The interaction is finished at this point, but=20
> > my understanding with regard to Portland Police, is they are supposed=20
> > to give you their name or business card or some such ID requirement
> now.=20=
> > =20
> > Maybe it has not started yet. I am pretty sure I would not be
> trying to=20
> > take a photo of an officer while he/she is in control of the
> situation... w=
> > hich=20
> > even when this type of escalation takes place... the officer is the
> boss.=
> > =20=20
> > If what you describe about your interaction with this person is
> accurate, h=
> > e was=20
> > a bit off the charts in my opinion. Anybody stopping along that
> bluff=20
> > creates a potential hazard. Especially a motor vehicle. And you=20
> > would think a police officer would recognize this more than a Joe or
> Jane=
> > =20
> > Citizen. This officer knew that anyone coming along would need to go=20
> > around you guys (and thus into traffic).... probably causing much
> more dang=
> > er=20
> > than what he said you caused. I think this guys was on edge. Many=20
> > people ride this area and do what you describe.
> > I pass riders along that section of Willamette=20
> > Blvd. all the time in the same manner. This has never happened to=20
> > me. I have been passed there as well, but am less apt to pay much=20
> > attention to when the next motor vehicle also comes by from behind.
> I am=
> > =20
> > always on my guard in that area along the bluff because there is
> real dange=
> > r=20
> > there around the potential crashes from motor vehicles turning left
> and the=
> > ones=20
> > behind them either rear-ending them or skidding into bike lane /
> riders.=20=
> > =20
> > Keep your eyes on the skid marks on that section of roadway and you
> will se=
> > e=20
> > what I mean. A few years ago I stopped while riding that section
> (put my=
> > =20
> > bike over on a grass section) and cut blackberries back that were
> hanging i=
> > n the=20
> > bike lane. A patrol car went by while I was doing this (driver
> slowed and=
> > =20
> > looked at what I was doing) but did not stop. The next day a city
> crew was=
> > =20
> > out mowing and weed-eating. I do not know if my work had anything to=20
> > do with that, but I did it because I see a large number of riders
> along tha=
> > t=20
> > lane who are pretty intimidated by the fast moving traffic. They do=20
> > not need additional obstacles. Traffic safety in that bike=20
> > lane (in-bound toward the city center) is very much impacted by
> anything (p=
> > eople=20
> > on blades / skateboards, joggers, busses stopped at pick up areas,
> cars dri=
> > ving=20
> > or stopped in it, especially any of the above going the wrong=20
> > direction. To be honest, my most dangerous situations have been when=20
> > coming upon the UP cross country team out running / training. I even=20
> > talked to their coach about how dangerous it was to have 6-12 riders
> runnin=
> > g in=20
> > that lane. I told him I was not as concerned about riders that=20
> > were very competent on their bikes, but riders not as experienced
> and the f=
> > act=20
> > that one is never sure what auto drivers will do when those
> situations=20
> > arise. The posted speed there is 35, but I know for a fact that=20
> > 40-45+ is the norm especially for commuters in the morning and
> afternoon.=
> > =20=20
> > His response did not satisfy me (but I have to admit I have not seen
> groups=
> > (as=20
> > large) of his team running since) in that his solution was to have
> his runn=
> > ers=20
> > move into the lane of traffic to let riders go by. This can really
> confuse=
> > =20
> > "everybody". I say a heads up in that area almost all the=20
> > time.
> > Hope your blood pressure is good and the rest of=20
> > your day is much better. Since police officers are "people" as
> well, I=20
> > hope his BP is lower and he is having a better time about now.
> Maybe even=
> > =20
> > coming to grips with the fact he overreacted. Remember it was just
> that=20
> > one guy. Not all the officers. No I am not at all employed by the=20
> > police dept and do not have any family employed by them or other
> department=
> > s=20
> > (although my mom told my I had an uncle who was a Texas border patrol=20
> > officer).
> > take care out there.
> > ron
> > ps.......You probably handled it much better than I=20
> > would have. I might be sitting in a cell right now.=20=20=20=20
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----=20
> > =20=20
> > From:=20
> > Scott=20
> > Fitzwater=20
> > To: obra@list.obra.org =20
> >
> > Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:22=20
> > PM
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] I almost got=20
> > arrested today while on a bike ride!
> > =20=20
> > This is simply unbelievable. I was on a 2 hr bike ride on an=20
> > unexpectedly pleasant day of sunshine. Riding on N Willamette Blvd
> just p=
> > ast U=20
> > of P on the bike path toward downtown. I was riding about 22 mph and=20
> > approached another bike rider in the bike lane who was riding
> significant=
> > ly=20
> > slower. I looked over my left shoulder, saw that I has safe
> distance from=
> > the=20
> > auto traffic behind me, signaled with my left hand/arm that I was
> coming =
> > out,=20
> > went around the other bike rider, merged back into the bike lane
> and cont=
> > inued=20
> > on at my 22 mph pace.=20
> >
> > Next thing I know, there is a vehicle behind me=20
> > siren blipping and lights flashing. Huh, is this guy pulling me
> over? I g=
> > uess=20
> > he is. I stop, the SUV size vehicle pulls over and the cop jumps
> out sayi=
> > ng I=20
> > failed to yield when I left the bike lane, entered his lane and
> passed th=
> > e=20
> > bike rider. His voice was raised and he's acting angry. I kid you
> not!! I=
> > =20
> > asked him to calm down and he gets madder. I told him that I felt I
> safel=
> > y=20
> > executed the pass by looking behind, saw the safe distance and
> signaled. =
> > He=20
> > disagreed again and threatened to ticket me. He asked for my ID.
> Luckily,=
> > I'd=20
> > forgotten to bring any and he yelled "god damnit" when I told him.
> The=20
> > "discussion" was devolving into "yes you did, no I didn't" and he
> was=20
> > obviously in control (at one point he said "you're not free to go")
> so I=
> > =20
> > finally said ok, you're right and just stared at him. He then
> called on h=
> > is=20
> > radio and asked if a car was nearby (presumably to arrest me??). I
> guess =
> > none=20
> > were since one didn't show up.
> >
> > The dude (who is a Sargent, by the way)=20
> > then takes down my name, address, phone number and goes back into
> his veh=
> > icle.=20
> > This whole time we're pulled over on the right, the cop vehicle is
> blocki=
> > ng=20
> > the bike lane and all bike riders are having to leave the bike
> lane, ente=
> > r the=20
> > traffic lane and ride around us. Finally, he returns and has
> written me a=
> > =20
> > warning. I ask what it meant and he said "nothing". I said I was
> sorry fo=
> > r the=20
> > hassle, he said nothing so I rode off. Weird experience.
> >
> > Portland's=20
> > finest? Oink oink.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > =20=20
> > =20=20
> >
> >
> > =20=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing=20
> > list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe:=20
> > obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > OBRA mailing list
> >
> >
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --=20
> > Eric Aldinger
> > =20=09=09=20=09=20=20=20=09=09=20=20
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/=
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Mike Murray

2010-01-19

Miami!!?? Miami is an awful place to ride a bike. One of the worst. Detroit is better. Not that Detroit is a good place...for anything.
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: "Joe Cipale"
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 08:29:13
To: Pink Panther
Cc:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

Sorry folks,

Everytime I hear that PDX is the 'friendliset bike city in America', I simply have to laugh. I have ridden in MANY cities that treay cyclists 10 TIMES better than Portland does:
SF
LA,
Seattle,
Phoenix,
San Diego,
Miami,
...

Tell me when to stop.

Joe

Pink Panther wrote:

>
> Not all but most. I had a Beaverton Motorcycle Officer threaten to taze me =
> while still on my bike. He came up from behind with his siren on. I was sho=
> cked to see him behind me, and managed to let my thought slip to verbalizat=
> ion "You have got to be kiddin me?" His response was, "Im not. Pull over or=
> ill taze you." Did i mention this was out on Bald Peak on some back countr=
> y road, where there was no traffic or anything. It was for not putting my f=
> oot down at a stop sign when i came to a halt(track stand) at an intersecti=
> on; an intersection you can see a mile in each direction with little to no =
> traffic. He was quite angry and was in my face yelling, close enough he was=
> spitting on me, the entire time. I was polite at first, but he just kept y=
> elling, so i quite talking and stood there silently, which seemed to make h=
> im more and more angry. Unfortunately i got a 300 dollar ticket because he =
> "had to teach me and us other dumb cyclist a lesson." Too bad i was too she=
> lled from 4 hrs of a horrific interval and wet ride to think straight enoug=
> h to get his badge number. Although the judge gave me much of the same "thi=
> s will teach you a lesson" treatment as well. Got to love our justice syste=
> m.
>
> From: barretfishner@hotmail.com
> To: rabbitxcr@hotmail.com
> Subject: FW: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!
> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:41:33 -0800
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:21:27 -0800
> From: ewascent@gmail.com
> To: rondot@spiritone.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!
>
>
> "Remember it was just that=20
> one guy. Not all the officers."
>
> Since I race against at least one Portland PD racer I know for a fact that =
> not all cops are biased against cyclists or citizens minding their own busi=
> ness. I have been generally impressed with the demeanor of the cops that ha=
> ve pulled me over for general vehicular chicanery.=20
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Ron and Dorothy Strasser .com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Scott,
> The interaction is finished at this point, but=20
> my understanding with regard to Portland Police, is they are supposed=20
> to give you their name or business card or some such ID requirement now.=20=
> =20
> Maybe it has not started yet. I am pretty sure I would not be trying to=20
> take a photo of an officer while he/she is in control of the situation... w=
> hich=20
> even when this type of escalation takes place... the officer is the boss.=
> =20=20
> If what you describe about your interaction with this person is accurate, h=
> e was=20
> a bit off the charts in my opinion. Anybody stopping along that bluff=20
> creates a potential hazard. Especially a motor vehicle. And you=20
> would think a police officer would recognize this more than a Joe or Jane=
> =20
> Citizen. This officer knew that anyone coming along would need to go=20
> around you guys (and thus into traffic).... probably causing much more dang=
> er=20
> than what he said you caused. I think this guys was on edge. Many=20
> people ride this area and do what you describe.
> I pass riders along that section of Willamette=20
> Blvd. all the time in the same manner. This has never happened to=20
> me. I have been passed there as well, but am less apt to pay much=20
> attention to when the next motor vehicle also comes by from behind. I am=
> =20
> always on my guard in that area along the bluff because there is real dange=
> r=20
> there around the potential crashes from motor vehicles turning left and the=
> ones=20
> behind them either rear-ending them or skidding into bike lane / riders.=20=
> =20
> Keep your eyes on the skid marks on that section of roadway and you will se=
> e=20
> what I mean. A few years ago I stopped while riding that section (put my=
> =20
> bike over on a grass section) and cut blackberries back that were hanging i=
> n the=20
> bike lane. A patrol car went by while I was doing this (driver slowed and=
> =20
> looked at what I was doing) but did not stop. The next day a city crew was=
> =20
> out mowing and weed-eating. I do not know if my work had anything to=20
> do with that, but I did it because I see a large number of riders along tha=
> t=20
> lane who are pretty intimidated by the fast moving traffic. They do=20
> not need additional obstacles. Traffic safety in that bike=20
> lane (in-bound toward the city center) is very much impacted by anything (p=
> eople=20
> on blades / skateboards, joggers, busses stopped at pick up areas, cars dri=
> ving=20
> or stopped in it, especially any of the above going the wrong=20
> direction. To be honest, my most dangerous situations have been when=20
> coming upon the UP cross country team out running / training. I even=20
> talked to their coach about how dangerous it was to have 6-12 riders runnin=
> g in=20
> that lane. I told him I was not as concerned about riders that=20
> were very competent on their bikes, but riders not as experienced and the f=
> act=20
> that one is never sure what auto drivers will do when those situations=20
> arise. The posted speed there is 35, but I know for a fact that=20
> 40-45+ is the norm especially for commuters in the morning and afternoon.=
> =20=20
> His response did not satisfy me (but I have to admit I have not seen groups=
> (as=20
> large) of his team running since) in that his solution was to have his runn=
> ers=20
> move into the lane of traffic to let riders go by. This can really confuse=
> =20
> "everybody". I say a heads up in that area almost all the=20
> time.
> Hope your blood pressure is good and the rest of=20
> your day is much better. Since police officers are "people" as well, I=20
> hope his BP is lower and he is having a better time about now. Maybe even=
> =20
> coming to grips with the fact he overreacted. Remember it was just that=20
> one guy. Not all the officers. No I am not at all employed by the=20
> police dept and do not have any family employed by them or other department=
> s=20
> (although my mom told my I had an uncle who was a Texas border patrol=20
> officer).
> take care out there.
> ron
> ps.......You probably handled it much better than I=20
> would have. I might be sitting in a cell right now.=20=20=20=20
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> =20=20
> From:=20
> Scott=20
> Fitzwater=20
> To: obra@list.obra.org=20
>
> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:22=20
> PM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] I almost got=20
> arrested today while on a bike ride!
> =20=20
> This is simply unbelievable. I was on a 2 hr bike ride on an=20
> unexpectedly pleasant day of sunshine. Riding on N Willamette Blvd just p=
> ast U=20
> of P on the bike path toward downtown. I was riding about 22 mph and=20
> approached another bike rider in the bike lane who was riding significant=
> ly=20
> slower. I looked over my left shoulder, saw that I has safe distance from=
> the=20
> auto traffic behind me, signaled with my left hand/arm that I was coming =
> out,=20
> went around the other bike rider, merged back into the bike lane and cont=
> inued=20
> on at my 22 mph pace.=20
>
> Next thing I know, there is a vehicle behind me=20
> siren blipping and lights flashing. Huh, is this guy pulling me over? I g=
> uess=20
> he is. I stop, the SUV size vehicle pulls over and the cop jumps out sayi=
> ng I=20
> failed to yield when I left the bike lane, entered his lane and passed th=
> e=20
> bike rider. His voice was raised and he's acting angry. I kid you not!! I=
> =20
> asked him to calm down and he gets madder. I told him that I felt I safel=
> y=20
> executed the pass by looking behind, saw the safe distance and signaled. =
> He=20
> disagreed again and threatened to ticket me. He asked for my ID. Luckily,=
> I'd=20
> forgotten to bring any and he yelled "god damnit" when I told him. The=20
> "discussion" was devolving into "yes you did, no I didn't" and he was=20
> obviously in control (at one point he said "you're not free to go") so I=
> =20
> finally said ok, you're right and just stared at him. He then called on h=
> is=20
> radio and asked if a car was nearby (presumably to arrest me??). I guess =
> none=20
> were since one didn't show up.
>
> The dude (who is a Sargent, by the way)=20
> then takes down my name, address, phone number and goes back into his veh=
> icle.=20
> This whole time we're pulled over on the right, the cop vehicle is blocki=
> ng=20
> the bike lane and all bike riders are having to leave the bike lane, ente=
> r the=20
> traffic lane and ride around us. Finally, he returns and has written me a=
> =20
> warning. I ask what it meant and he said "nothing". I said I was sorry fo=
> r the=20
> hassle, he said nothing so I rode off. Weird experience.
>
> Portland's=20
> finest? Oink oink.
>
> Scott
>
> =20=20
> =20=20
>
>
> =20=20
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing=20
> list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe:=20
> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> OBRA mailing list
>
>
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> --=20
> Eric Aldinger
> =20=09=09=20=09=20=20=20=09=09=20=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/=

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Kevin

2010-01-19

Wow, I've spent 6 weeks riding in San Diego since June.  To include San Diego on that list you must have been riding in a different location than I did. I was SO glad to get back to Oregon where the roads are in MUCH better shape and the drivers, while not perfect, are a lot more "tolerant" of cyclists. 

Kevin
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What is happening in Kevin's corner of the bike world?
http://the-whir-of-spokes-in-air.blogspot.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

________________________________
From: Joe Cipale
To: Pink Panther
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tue, January 19, 2010 8:29:13 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

Sorry folks,

Everytime I hear that PDX is the 'friendliset bike city in America', I simply  have to laugh. I have ridden in MANY cities that treay cyclists 10 TIMES better than Portland does:
SF
LA,
Seattle,
Phoenix,
San Diego,
Miami,
...

Tell me when to stop.

Joe

Pink Panther wrote:

>
> Not all but most. I had a Beaverton Motorcycle Officer threaten to taze me =
> while still on my bike. He came up from behind with his siren on. I was sho=
> cked to see him behind me, and managed to let my thought slip to verbalizat=
> ion "You have got to be kiddin me?" His response was, "Im not. Pull over or=
>  ill taze you." Did i mention this was out on Bald Peak on some back countr=
> y road, where there was no traffic or anything. It was for not putting my f=
> oot down at a stop sign when i came to a halt(track stand) at an intersecti=
> on; an intersection you can see a mile in each direction with little to no =
> traffic. He was quite angry and was in my face yelling, close enough he was=
>  spitting on me, the entire time. I was polite at first, but he just kept y=
> elling, so i quite talking and stood there silently, which seemed to make h=
> im more and more angry. Unfortunately i got a 300 dollar ticket because he =
> "had to teach me and us other dumb cyclist a lesson." Too bad i was too she=
> lled from 4 hrs of a horrific interval and wet ride to think straight enoug=
> h to get his badge number. Although the judge gave me much of the same "thi=
> s will teach you a lesson" treatment as well. Got to love our justice syste=
> m.
>
> From: barretfishner@hotmail.com
> To: rabbitxcr@hotmail.com
> Subject: FW: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!
> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:41:33 -0800
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:21:27 -0800
> From: ewascent@gmail.com
> To: rondot@spiritone.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!
>
>
> "Remember it was just that=20
> one guy.  Not all the officers."
>
> Since I race against at least one Portland PD racer I know for a fact that =
> not all cops are biased against cyclists or citizens minding their own busi=
> ness. I have been generally impressed with the demeanor of the cops that ha=
> ve pulled me over for general vehicular chicanery.=20
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Ron and Dorothy Strasser .com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Scott,
> The interaction is finished at this point, but=20
> my understanding with regard to Portland Police, is they are supposed=20
> to give you their name or business card or some such ID requirement now.=20=
> =20
> Maybe it has not started yet.  I am pretty sure I would not be trying to=20
> take a photo of an officer while he/she is in control of the situation... w=
> hich=20
> even when this type of escalation takes place... the officer is the boss.=
> =20=20
> If what you describe about your interaction with this person is accurate, h=
> e was=20
> a bit off the charts in my opinion.  Anybody stopping along that bluff=20
> creates a potential hazard.  Especially a motor vehicle.  And you=20
> would think a police officer would recognize this more than a Joe or Jane=
> =20
> Citizen.  This officer knew that anyone coming along would need to go=20
> around you guys (and thus into traffic).... probably causing much more dang=
> er=20
> than what he said you caused.  I think this guys was on edge.  Many=20
> people ride this area and do what you describe.
> I pass riders along that section of Willamette=20
> Blvd. all the time in the same manner.  This has never happened to=20
> me.  I have been passed there as well, but am less apt to pay much=20
> attention to when the next motor vehicle also comes by from behind.  I am=
> =20
> always on my guard in that area along the bluff because there is real dange=
> r=20
> there around the potential crashes from motor vehicles turning left and the=
>  ones=20
> behind them either rear-ending them or skidding into bike lane / riders.=20=
> =20
> Keep your eyes on the skid marks on that section of roadway and you will se=
> e=20
> what I mean.  A few years ago I stopped while riding that section (put my=
> =20
> bike over on a grass section) and cut blackberries back that were hanging i=
> n the=20
> bike lane.  A patrol car went by while I was doing this (driver slowed and=
> =20
> looked at what I was doing) but did not stop.  The next day a city crew was=
> =20
> out mowing and weed-eating.  I do not know if my work had anything to=20
> do with that, but I did it because I see a large number of riders along tha=
> t=20
> lane who are pretty intimidated by the fast moving traffic.  They do=20
> not need additional obstacles.  Traffic safety in that bike=20
> lane (in-bound toward the city center) is very much impacted by anything (p=
> eople=20
> on blades / skateboards, joggers, busses stopped at pick up areas, cars dri=
> ving=20
> or stopped in it, especially any of the above going the wrong=20
> direction.  To be honest, my most dangerous situations have been when=20
> coming upon the UP cross country team out running / training.  I even=20
> talked to their coach about how dangerous it was to have 6-12 riders runnin=
> g in=20
> that lane.  I told him I was not as concerned about riders that=20
> were very competent on their bikes, but riders not as experienced and the f=
> act=20
> that one is never sure what auto drivers will do when those situations=20
> arise.  The posted speed there is 35, but I know for a fact that=20
> 40-45+ is the norm especially for commuters in the morning and afternoon.=
> =20=20
> His response did not satisfy me (but I have to admit I have not seen groups=
>  (as=20
> large) of his team running since) in that his solution was to have his runn=
> ers=20
> move into the lane of traffic to let riders go by.  This can really confuse=
> =20
> "everybody".  I say a heads up in that area almost all the=20
> time.
> Hope your blood pressure is good and the rest of=20
> your day is much better.  Since police officers are "people" as well, I=20
> hope his BP is lower and he is having a better time about now.  Maybe even=
> =20
> coming to grips with the fact he overreacted.  Remember it was just that=20
> one guy.  Not all the officers.  No I am not at all employed by the=20
> police dept and do not have any family employed by them or other department=
> s=20
> (although my mom told my I had an uncle who was a Texas border patrol=20
> officer).
> take care out there.
> ron
> ps.......You probably handled it much better than I=20
> would have.  I might be sitting in a cell right now.=20=20=20=20
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----=20
> =20=20
> From:=20
>  Scott=20
>  Fitzwater=20
>  To: obra@list.obra.org=20
>
>  Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:22=20
>  PM
>  Subject: [OBRA Chat] I almost got=20
>  arrested today while on a bike ride!
> =20=20
> This is simply unbelievable. I was on a 2 hr bike ride on an=20
>  unexpectedly pleasant day of sunshine. Riding on N Willamette Blvd just p=
> ast U=20
>  of P on the bike path toward downtown. I was riding about 22 mph and=20
>  approached another bike rider in the bike lane who was riding significant=
> ly=20
>  slower. I looked over my left shoulder, saw that I has safe distance from=
>  the=20
>  auto traffic behind me, signaled with my left hand/arm that I was coming =
> out,=20
>  went around the other bike rider, merged back into the bike lane and cont=
> inued=20
>  on at my 22 mph pace.=20
>
> Next thing I know, there is a vehicle behind me=20
>  siren blipping and lights flashing. Huh, is this guy pulling me over? I g=
> uess=20
>  he is. I stop, the SUV size vehicle pulls over and the cop jumps out sayi=
> ng I=20
>  failed to yield when I left the bike lane, entered his lane and passed th=
> e=20
>  bike rider. His voice was raised and he's acting angry. I kid you not!! I=
> =20
>  asked him to calm down and he gets madder. I told him that I felt I safel=
> y=20
>  executed the pass by looking behind, saw the safe distance and signaled. =
> He=20
>  disagreed again and threatened to ticket me. He asked for my ID. Luckily,=
>  I'd=20
>  forgotten to bring any and he yelled "god damnit" when I told him. The=20
>  "discussion" was devolving into "yes you did, no I didn't" and he was=20
>  obviously in control (at one point he said "you're not free to go") so I=
> =20
>  finally said ok, you're right and just stared at him. He then called on h=
> is=20
>  radio and asked if a car was nearby (presumably to arrest me??). I guess =
> none=20
>  were since one didn't show up.
>
> The dude (who is a Sargent, by the way)=20
>  then takes down my name, address, phone number and goes back into his veh=
> icle.=20
>  This whole time we're pulled over on the right, the cop vehicle is blocki=
> ng=20
>  the bike lane and all bike riders are having to leave the bike lane, ente=
> r the=20
>  traffic lane and ride around us. Finally, he returns and has written me a=
> =20
>  warning. I ask what it meant and he said "nothing". I said I was sorry fo=
> r the=20
>  hassle, he said nothing so I rode off. Weird experience.
>
> Portland's=20
>  finest? Oink oink.
>
> Scott
>
> =20=20
> =20=20
>
>
> =20=20
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing=20
>  list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe:=20
>  obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> OBRA mailing list
>
>
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> --=20
> Eric Aldinger
> =20=09=09=20=09=20=20=20=09=09=20=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/=

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Joe Cipale

2010-01-19

Sorry folks,

Everytime I hear that PDX is the 'friendliset bike city in America', I simply have to laugh. I have ridden in MANY cities that treay cyclists 10 TIMES better than Portland does:
SF
LA,
Seattle,
Phoenix,
San Diego,
Miami,
...

Tell me when to stop.

Joe

Pink Panther wrote:

>
> Not all but most. I had a Beaverton Motorcycle Officer threaten to taze me =
> while still on my bike. He came up from behind with his siren on. I was sho=
> cked to see him behind me, and managed to let my thought slip to verbalizat=
> ion "You have got to be kiddin me?" His response was, "Im not. Pull over or=
> ill taze you." Did i mention this was out on Bald Peak on some back countr=
> y road, where there was no traffic or anything. It was for not putting my f=
> oot down at a stop sign when i came to a halt(track stand) at an intersecti=
> on; an intersection you can see a mile in each direction with little to no =
> traffic. He was quite angry and was in my face yelling, close enough he was=
> spitting on me, the entire time. I was polite at first, but he just kept y=
> elling, so i quite talking and stood there silently, which seemed to make h=
> im more and more angry. Unfortunately i got a 300 dollar ticket because he =
> "had to teach me and us other dumb cyclist a lesson." Too bad i was too she=
> lled from 4 hrs of a horrific interval and wet ride to think straight enoug=
> h to get his badge number. Although the judge gave me much of the same "thi=
> s will teach you a lesson" treatment as well. Got to love our justice syste=
> m.
>
> From: barretfishner@hotmail.com
> To: rabbitxcr@hotmail.com
> Subject: FW: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!
> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:41:33 -0800
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:21:27 -0800
> From: ewascent@gmail.com
> To: rondot@spiritone.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!
>
>
> "Remember it was just that=20
> one guy. Not all the officers."
>
> Since I race against at least one Portland PD racer I know for a fact that =
> not all cops are biased against cyclists or citizens minding their own busi=
> ness. I have been generally impressed with the demeanor of the cops that ha=
> ve pulled me over for general vehicular chicanery.=20
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Ron and Dorothy Strasser .com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Scott,
> The interaction is finished at this point, but=20
> my understanding with regard to Portland Police, is they are supposed=20
> to give you their name or business card or some such ID requirement now.=20=
> =20
> Maybe it has not started yet. I am pretty sure I would not be trying to=20
> take a photo of an officer while he/she is in control of the situation... w=
> hich=20
> even when this type of escalation takes place... the officer is the boss.=
> =20=20
> If what you describe about your interaction with this person is accurate, h=
> e was=20
> a bit off the charts in my opinion. Anybody stopping along that bluff=20
> creates a potential hazard. Especially a motor vehicle. And you=20
> would think a police officer would recognize this more than a Joe or Jane=
> =20
> Citizen. This officer knew that anyone coming along would need to go=20
> around you guys (and thus into traffic).... probably causing much more dang=
> er=20
> than what he said you caused. I think this guys was on edge. Many=20
> people ride this area and do what you describe.
> I pass riders along that section of Willamette=20
> Blvd. all the time in the same manner. This has never happened to=20
> me. I have been passed there as well, but am less apt to pay much=20
> attention to when the next motor vehicle also comes by from behind. I am=
> =20
> always on my guard in that area along the bluff because there is real dange=
> r=20
> there around the potential crashes from motor vehicles turning left and the=
> ones=20
> behind them either rear-ending them or skidding into bike lane / riders.=20=
> =20
> Keep your eyes on the skid marks on that section of roadway and you will se=
> e=20
> what I mean. A few years ago I stopped while riding that section (put my=
> =20
> bike over on a grass section) and cut blackberries back that were hanging i=
> n the=20
> bike lane. A patrol car went by while I was doing this (driver slowed and=
> =20
> looked at what I was doing) but did not stop. The next day a city crew was=
> =20
> out mowing and weed-eating. I do not know if my work had anything to=20
> do with that, but I did it because I see a large number of riders along tha=
> t=20
> lane who are pretty intimidated by the fast moving traffic. They do=20
> not need additional obstacles. Traffic safety in that bike=20
> lane (in-bound toward the city center) is very much impacted by anything (p=
> eople=20
> on blades / skateboards, joggers, busses stopped at pick up areas, cars dri=
> ving=20
> or stopped in it, especially any of the above going the wrong=20
> direction. To be honest, my most dangerous situations have been when=20
> coming upon the UP cross country team out running / training. I even=20
> talked to their coach about how dangerous it was to have 6-12 riders runnin=
> g in=20
> that lane. I told him I was not as concerned about riders that=20
> were very competent on their bikes, but riders not as experienced and the f=
> act=20
> that one is never sure what auto drivers will do when those situations=20
> arise. The posted speed there is 35, but I know for a fact that=20
> 40-45+ is the norm especially for commuters in the morning and afternoon.=
> =20=20
> His response did not satisfy me (but I have to admit I have not seen groups=
> (as=20
> large) of his team running since) in that his solution was to have his runn=
> ers=20
> move into the lane of traffic to let riders go by. This can really confuse=
> =20
> "everybody". I say a heads up in that area almost all the=20
> time.
> Hope your blood pressure is good and the rest of=20
> your day is much better. Since police officers are "people" as well, I=20
> hope his BP is lower and he is having a better time about now. Maybe even=
> =20
> coming to grips with the fact he overreacted. Remember it was just that=20
> one guy. Not all the officers. No I am not at all employed by the=20
> police dept and do not have any family employed by them or other department=
> s=20
> (although my mom told my I had an uncle who was a Texas border patrol=20
> officer).
> take care out there.
> ron
> ps.......You probably handled it much better than I=20
> would have. I might be sitting in a cell right now.=20=20=20=20
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> =20=20
> From:=20
> Scott=20
> Fitzwater=20
> To: obra@list.obra.org=20
>
> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:22=20
> PM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] I almost got=20
> arrested today while on a bike ride!
> =20=20
> This is simply unbelievable. I was on a 2 hr bike ride on an=20
> unexpectedly pleasant day of sunshine. Riding on N Willamette Blvd just p=
> ast U=20
> of P on the bike path toward downtown. I was riding about 22 mph and=20
> approached another bike rider in the bike lane who was riding significant=
> ly=20
> slower. I looked over my left shoulder, saw that I has safe distance from=
> the=20
> auto traffic behind me, signaled with my left hand/arm that I was coming =
> out,=20
> went around the other bike rider, merged back into the bike lane and cont=
> inued=20
> on at my 22 mph pace.=20
>
> Next thing I know, there is a vehicle behind me=20
> siren blipping and lights flashing. Huh, is this guy pulling me over? I g=
> uess=20
> he is. I stop, the SUV size vehicle pulls over and the cop jumps out sayi=
> ng I=20
> failed to yield when I left the bike lane, entered his lane and passed th=
> e=20
> bike rider. His voice was raised and he's acting angry. I kid you not!! I=
> =20
> asked him to calm down and he gets madder. I told him that I felt I safel=
> y=20
> executed the pass by looking behind, saw the safe distance and signaled. =
> He=20
> disagreed again and threatened to ticket me. He asked for my ID. Luckily,=
> I'd=20
> forgotten to bring any and he yelled "god damnit" when I told him. The=20
> "discussion" was devolving into "yes you did, no I didn't" and he was=20
> obviously in control (at one point he said "you're not free to go") so I=
> =20
> finally said ok, you're right and just stared at him. He then called on h=
> is=20
> radio and asked if a car was nearby (presumably to arrest me??). I guess =
> none=20
> were since one didn't show up.
>
> The dude (who is a Sargent, by the way)=20
> then takes down my name, address, phone number and goes back into his veh=
> icle.=20
> This whole time we're pulled over on the right, the cop vehicle is blocki=
> ng=20
> the bike lane and all bike riders are having to leave the bike lane, ente=
> r the=20
> traffic lane and ride around us. Finally, he returns and has written me a=
> =20
> warning. I ask what it meant and he said "nothing". I said I was sorry fo=
> r the=20
> hassle, he said nothing so I rode off. Weird experience.
>
> Portland's=20
> finest? Oink oink.
>
> Scott
>
> =20=20
> =20=20
>
>
> =20=20
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing=20
> list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe:=20
> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> OBRA mailing list
>
>
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> --=20
> Eric Aldinger
> =20=09=09=20=09=20=20=20=09=09=20=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/=


Lisa Winchester

2010-01-19

I'm thinking he hadn't had his doughnut yet.

~Lisa Winchester

__o "It never gets easier,
_ \<_ you just go faster."
(_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond

Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 21:54:33 +0000
From: jboquiren@comcast.net
To: scott.fitzh2o@gmail.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

That is my usual skating route Scott. I believe he would've bundled me up into his vehicle if he caught me on my inlines. Skaters get even LESS respect than cyclists :P

Joseph Boquiren

http://www.drunkduck.com/Samadhi_Pants/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Fitzwater"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:22:05 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

This is simply unbelievable. I was on a 2 hr bike ride on an unexpectedly pleasant day of sunshine. Riding on N Willamette Blvd just past U of P on the bike path toward downtown. I was riding about 22 mph and approached another bike rider in the bike lane who was riding significantly slower. I looked over my left shoulder, saw that I has safe distance from the auto traffic behind me, signaled with my left hand/arm that I was coming out, went around the other bike rider, merged back into the bike lane and continued on at my 22 mph pace.

Next thing I know, there is a vehicle behind me siren blipping and lights flashing. Huh, is this guy pulling me over? I guess he is. I stop, the SUV size vehicle pulls over and the cop jumps out saying I failed to yield when I left the bike lane, entered his lane and passed the bike rider. His voice was raised and he's acting angry. I kid you not!! I asked him to calm down and he gets madder. I told him that I felt I safely executed the pass by looking behind, saw the safe distance and signaled. He disagreed again and threatened to ticket me. He asked for my ID. Luckily, I'd forgotten to bring any and he yelled "god damnit" when I told him. The "discussion" was devolving into "yes you did, no I didn't" and he was obviously in control (at one point he said "you're not free to go") so I finally said ok, you're right and just stared at him. He then called on his radio and asked if a car was nearby (presumably to arrest me??). I guess none were since one didn't show up.

The dude (who is a Sargent, by the way) then takes down my name, address, phone number and goes back into his vehicle. This whole time we're pulled over on the right, the cop vehicle is blocking the bike lane and all bike riders are having to leave the bike lane, enter the traffic lane and ride around us. Finally, he returns and has written me a warning. I ask what it meant and he said "nothing". I said I was sorry for the hassle, he said nothing so I rode off. Weird experience.

Portland's finest? Oink oink.

Scott

_______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Pink Panther

2010-01-19

Not all but most. I had a Beaverton Motorcycle Officer threaten to taze me while still on my bike. He came up from behind with his siren on. I was shocked to see him behind me, and managed to let my thought slip to verbalization "You have got to be kiddin me?" His response was, "Im not. Pull over or ill taze you." Did i mention this was out on Bald Peak on some back country road, where there was no traffic or anything. It was for not putting my foot down at a stop sign when i came to a halt(track stand) at an intersection; an intersection you can see a mile in each direction with little to no traffic. He was quite angry and was in my face yelling, close enough he was spitting on me, the entire time. I was polite at first, but he just kept yelling, so i quite talking and stood there silently, which seemed to make him more and more angry. Unfortunately i got a 300 dollar ticket because he "had to teach me and us other dumb cyclist a lesson." Too bad i was too shelled from 4 hrs of a horrific interval and wet ride to think straight enough to get his badge number. Although the judge gave me much of the same "this will teach you a lesson" treatment as well. Got to love our justice system.

From: barretfishner@hotmail.com
To: rabbitxcr@hotmail.com
Subject: FW: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:41:33 -0800

Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:21:27 -0800
From: ewascent@gmail.com
To: rondot@spiritone.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

"Remember it was just that
one guy. Not all the officers."

Since I race against at least one Portland PD racer I know for a fact that not all cops are biased against cyclists or citizens minding their own business. I have been generally impressed with the demeanor of the cops that have pulled me over for general vehicular chicanery.

On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Ron and Dorothy Strasser wrote:

Scott,
The interaction is finished at this point, but
my understanding with regard to Portland Police, is they are supposed
to give you their name or business card or some such ID requirement now.
Maybe it has not started yet. I am pretty sure I would not be trying to
take a photo of an officer while he/she is in control of the situation... which
even when this type of escalation takes place... the officer is the boss.
If what you describe about your interaction with this person is accurate, he was
a bit off the charts in my opinion. Anybody stopping along that bluff
creates a potential hazard. Especially a motor vehicle. And you
would think a police officer would recognize this more than a Joe or Jane
Citizen. This officer knew that anyone coming along would need to go
around you guys (and thus into traffic).... probably causing much more danger
than what he said you caused. I think this guys was on edge. Many
people ride this area and do what you describe.
I pass riders along that section of Willamette
Blvd. all the time in the same manner. This has never happened to
me. I have been passed there as well, but am less apt to pay much
attention to when the next motor vehicle also comes by from behind. I am
always on my guard in that area along the bluff because there is real danger
there around the potential crashes from motor vehicles turning left and the ones
behind them either rear-ending them or skidding into bike lane / riders.
Keep your eyes on the skid marks on that section of roadway and you will see
what I mean. A few years ago I stopped while riding that section (put my
bike over on a grass section) and cut blackberries back that were hanging in the
bike lane. A patrol car went by while I was doing this (driver slowed and
looked at what I was doing) but did not stop. The next day a city crew was
out mowing and weed-eating. I do not know if my work had anything to
do with that, but I did it because I see a large number of riders along that
lane who are pretty intimidated by the fast moving traffic. They do
not need additional obstacles. Traffic safety in that bike
lane (in-bound toward the city center) is very much impacted by anything (people
on blades / skateboards, joggers, busses stopped at pick up areas, cars driving
or stopped in it, especially any of the above going the wrong
direction. To be honest, my most dangerous situations have been when
coming upon the UP cross country team out running / training. I even
talked to their coach about how dangerous it was to have 6-12 riders running in
that lane. I told him I was not as concerned about riders that
were very competent on their bikes, but riders not as experienced and the fact
that one is never sure what auto drivers will do when those situations
arise. The posted speed there is 35, but I know for a fact that
40-45+ is the norm especially for commuters in the morning and afternoon.
His response did not satisfy me (but I have to admit I have not seen groups (as
large) of his team running since) in that his solution was to have his runners
move into the lane of traffic to let riders go by. This can really confuse
"everybody". I say a heads up in that area almost all the
time.
Hope your blood pressure is good and the rest of
your day is much better. Since police officers are "people" as well, I
hope his BP is lower and he is having a better time about now. Maybe even
coming to grips with the fact he overreacted. Remember it was just that
one guy. Not all the officers. No I am not at all employed by the
police dept and do not have any family employed by them or other departments
(although my mom told my I had an uncle who was a Texas border patrol
officer).
take care out there.
ron
ps.......You probably handled it much better than I
would have. I might be sitting in a cell right now.

----- Original Message -----

From:
Scott
Fitzwater
To: obra@list.obra.org

Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:22
PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] I almost got
arrested today while on a bike ride!

This is simply unbelievable. I was on a 2 hr bike ride on an
unexpectedly pleasant day of sunshine. Riding on N Willamette Blvd just past U
of P on the bike path toward downtown. I was riding about 22 mph and
approached another bike rider in the bike lane who was riding significantly
slower. I looked over my left shoulder, saw that I has safe distance from the
auto traffic behind me, signaled with my left hand/arm that I was coming out,
went around the other bike rider, merged back into the bike lane and continued
on at my 22 mph pace.

Next thing I know, there is a vehicle behind me
siren blipping and lights flashing. Huh, is this guy pulling me over? I guess
he is. I stop, the SUV size vehicle pulls over and the cop jumps out saying I
failed to yield when I left the bike lane, entered his lane and passed the
bike rider. His voice was raised and he's acting angry. I kid you not!! I
asked him to calm down and he gets madder. I told him that I felt I safely
executed the pass by looking behind, saw the safe distance and signaled. He
disagreed again and threatened to ticket me. He asked for my ID. Luckily, I'd
forgotten to bring any and he yelled "god damnit" when I told him. The
"discussion" was devolving into "yes you did, no I didn't" and he was
obviously in control (at one point he said "you're not free to go") so I
finally said ok, you're right and just stared at him. He then called on his
radio and asked if a car was nearby (presumably to arrest me??). I guess none
were since one didn't show up.

The dude (who is a Sargent, by the way)
then takes down my name, address, phone number and goes back into his vehicle.
This whole time we're pulled over on the right, the cop vehicle is blocking
the bike lane and all bike riders are having to leave the bike lane, enter the
traffic lane and ride around us. Finally, he returns and has written me a
warning. I ask what it meant and he said "nothing". I said I was sorry for the
hassle, he said nothing so I rode off. Weird experience.

Portland's
finest? Oink oink.

Scott



_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing
list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe:
obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
Eric Aldinger

_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/


eric aldinger

2010-01-19

"Remember it was just that one guy. Not all the officers."

Since I race against at least one Portland PD racer I know for a fact that
not all cops are biased against cyclists or citizens minding their own
business. I have been generally impressed with the demeanor of the cops that
have pulled me over for general vehicular chicanery.

On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Ron and Dorothy Strasser <
rondot@spiritone.com> wrote:

> Scott,
> The interaction is finished at this point, but my understanding with regard
> to Portland Police, is they are supposed to give you their name or business
> card or some such ID requirement now. Maybe it has not started yet. I am
> pretty sure I would not be trying to take a photo of an officer while he/she
> is in control of the situation... which even when this type of escalation
> takes place... the officer is the boss. If what you describe about your
> interaction with this person is accurate, he was a bit off the charts in my
> opinion. Anybody stopping along that bluff creates a potential hazard.
> Especially a motor vehicle. And you would think a police officer would
> recognize this more than a Joe or Jane Citizen. This officer knew that
> anyone coming along would need to go around you guys (and thus into
> traffic).... probably causing much more danger than what he said you
> caused. I think this guys was on edge. Many people ride this area and do
> what you describe.
> I pass riders along that section of Willamette Blvd. all the time in the
> same manner. This has never happened to me. I have been passed there as
> well, but am less apt to pay much attention to when the next motor vehicle
> also comes by from behind. I am always on my guard in that area along the
> bluff because there is real danger there around the potential crashes from
> motor vehicles turning left and the ones behind them either rear-ending them
> or skidding into bike lane / riders. Keep your eyes on the skid marks on
> that section of roadway and you will see what I mean. A few years ago I
> stopped while riding that section (put my bike over on a grass section) and
> cut blackberries back that were hanging in the bike lane. A patrol car went
> by while I was doing this (driver slowed and looked at what I was doing) but
> did not stop. The next day a city crew was out mowing and weed-eating. I
> do not know if my work had anything to do with that, but I did it because I
> see a large number of riders along that lane who are pretty intimidated by
> the fast moving traffic. They do not need additional obstacles. *Traffic
> safety* in that bike lane (in-bound toward the city center) is very much
> impacted by anything (people on blades / skateboards, joggers, busses
> stopped at pick up areas, cars driving or stopped in it, especially any of
> the above going the wrong direction. To be honest, my most dangerous
> situations have been when coming upon the UP cross country team out running
> / training. I even talked to their coach about how dangerous it was to have
> 6-12 riders running in that lane. I told him I was not as concerned about
> riders that were very competent on their bikes, but riders not as
> experienced and the fact that one is never sure what auto drivers will do
> when those situations arise. The posted speed there is 35, but I know for a
> fact that 40-45+ is the norm especially for commuters in the morning and
> afternoon. His response did not satisfy me (but I have to admit I have not
> seen groups (as large) of his team running since) in that his solution was
> to have his runners move into the lane of traffic to let riders go by. This
> can really confuse "everybody". I say a heads up in that area almost all
> the time.
> Hope your blood pressure is good and the rest of your day is much better.
> Since police officers are "people" as well, I hope his BP is lower and he is
> having a better time about now. Maybe even coming to grips with the fact he
> overreacted. Remember it was just that one guy. Not all the officers. No
> I am not at all employed by the police dept and do not have any family
> employed by them or other departments (although my mom told my I had an
> uncle who was a Texas border patrol officer).
> take care out there.
> ron
> ps.......You probably handled it much better than I would have. I might be
> sitting in a cell right now.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Scott Fitzwater
> *To:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2010 1:22 PM
> *Subject:* [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!
>
> This is simply unbelievable. I was on a 2 hr bike ride on an unexpectedly
> pleasant day of sunshine. Riding on N Willamette Blvd just past U of P on
> the bike path toward downtown. I was riding about 22 mph and approached
> another bike rider in the bike lane who was riding significantly slower. I
> looked over my left shoulder, saw that I has safe distance from the auto
> traffic behind me, signaled with my left hand/arm that I was coming out,
> went around the other bike rider, merged back into the bike lane and
> continued on at my 22 mph pace.
>
> Next thing I know, there is a vehicle behind me siren blipping and lights
> flashing. Huh, is this guy pulling me over? I guess he is. I stop, the SUV
> size vehicle pulls over and the cop jumps out saying I failed to yield when
> I left the bike lane, entered his lane and passed the bike rider. His voice
> was raised and he's acting angry. I kid you not!! I asked him to calm down
> and he gets madder. I told him that I felt I safely executed the pass by
> looking behind, saw the safe distance and signaled. He disagreed again and
> threatened to ticket me. He asked for my ID. Luckily, I'd forgotten to bring
> any and he yelled "god damnit" when I told him. The "discussion" was
> devolving into "yes you did, no I didn't" and he was obviously in control
> (at one point he said "you're not free to go") so I finally said ok, you're
> right and just stared at him. He then called on his radio and asked if a car
> was nearby (presumably to arrest me??). I guess none were since one didn't
> show up.
>
> The dude (who is a Sargent, by the way) then takes down my name, address,
> phone number and goes back into his vehicle. This whole time we're pulled
> over on the right, the cop vehicle is blocking the bike lane and all bike
> riders are having to leave the bike lane, enter the traffic lane and ride
> around us. Finally, he returns and has written me a warning. I ask what it
> meant and he said "nothing". I said I was sorry for the hassle, he said
> nothing so I rode off. Weird experience.
>
> Portland's finest? Oink oink.
>
> Scott
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
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>
>
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>
>

--
Eric Aldinger


Ron and Dorothy Strasser

2010-01-19

Scott,
The interaction is finished at this point, but my understanding with regard to Portland Police, is they are supposed to give you their name or business card or some such ID requirement now. Maybe it has not started yet. I am pretty sure I would not be trying to take a photo of an officer while he/she is in control of the situation... which even when this type of escalation takes place... the officer is the boss. If what you describe about your interaction with this person is accurate, he was a bit off the charts in my opinion. Anybody stopping along that bluff creates a potential hazard. Especially a motor vehicle. And you would think a police officer would recognize this more than a Joe or Jane Citizen. This officer knew that anyone coming along would need to go around you guys (and thus into traffic).... probably causing much more danger than what he said you caused. I think this guys was on edge. Many people ride this area and do what you describe.
I pass riders along that section of Willamette Blvd. all the time in the same manner. This has never happened to me. I have been passed there as well, but am less apt to pay much attention to when the next motor vehicle also comes by from behind. I am always on my guard in that area along the bluff because there is real danger there around the potential crashes from motor vehicles turning left and the ones behind them either rear-ending them or skidding into bike lane / riders. Keep your eyes on the skid marks on that section of roadway and you will see what I mean. A few years ago I stopped while riding that section (put my bike over on a grass section) and cut blackberries back that were hanging in the bike lane. A patrol car went by while I was doing this (driver slowed and looked at what I was doing) but did not stop. The next day a city crew was out mowing and weed-eating. I do not know if my work had anything to do with that, but I did it because I see a large number of riders along that lane who are pretty intimidated by the fast moving traffic. They do not need additional obstacles. Traffic safety in that bike lane (in-bound toward the city center) is very much impacted by anything (people on blades / skateboards, joggers, busses stopped at pick up areas, cars driving or stopped in it, especially any of the above going the wrong direction. To be honest, my most dangerous situations have been when coming upon the UP cross country team out running / training. I even talked to their coach about how dangerous it was to have 6-12 riders running in that lane. I told him I was not as concerned about riders that were very competent on their bikes, but riders not as experienced and the fact that one is never sure what auto drivers will do when those situations arise. The posted speed there is 35, but I know for a fact that 40-45+ is the norm especially for commuters in the morning and afternoon. His response did not satisfy me (but I have to admit I have not seen groups (as large) of his team running since) in that his solution was to have his runners move into the lane of traffic to let riders go by. This can really confuse "everybody". I say a heads up in that area almost all the time.
Hope your blood pressure is good and the rest of your day is much better. Since police officers are "people" as well, I hope his BP is lower and he is having a better time about now. Maybe even coming to grips with the fact he overreacted. Remember it was just that one guy. Not all the officers. No I am not at all employed by the police dept and do not have any family employed by them or other departments (although my mom told my I had an uncle who was a Texas border patrol officer).
take care out there.
ron
ps.......You probably handled it much better than I would have. I might be sitting in a cell right now.
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Fitzwater
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:22 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

This is simply unbelievable. I was on a 2 hr bike ride on an unexpectedly pleasant day of sunshine. Riding on N Willamette Blvd just past U of P on the bike path toward downtown. I was riding about 22 mph and approached another bike rider in the bike lane who was riding significantly slower. I looked over my left shoulder, saw that I has safe distance from the auto traffic behind me, signaled with my left hand/arm that I was coming out, went around the other bike rider, merged back into the bike lane and continued on at my 22 mph pace.

Next thing I know, there is a vehicle behind me siren blipping and lights flashing. Huh, is this guy pulling me over? I guess he is. I stop, the SUV size vehicle pulls over and the cop jumps out saying I failed to yield when I left the bike lane, entered his lane and passed the bike rider. His voice was raised and he's acting angry. I kid you not!! I asked him to calm down and he gets madder. I told him that I felt I safely executed the pass by looking behind, saw the safe distance and signaled. He disagreed again and threatened to ticket me. He asked for my ID. Luckily, I'd forgotten to bring any and he yelled "god damnit" when I told him. The "discussion" was devolving into "yes you did, no I didn't" and he was obviously in control (at one point he said "you're not free to go") so I finally said ok, you're right and just stared at him. He then called on his radio and asked if a car was nearby (presumably to arrest me??). I guess none were since one didn't show up.

The dude (who is a Sargent, by the way) then takes down my name, address, phone number and goes back into his vehicle. This whole time we're pulled over on the right, the cop vehicle is blocking the bike lane and all bike riders are having to leave the bike lane, enter the traffic lane and ride around us. Finally, he returns and has written me a warning. I ask what it meant and he said "nothing". I said I was sorry for the hassle, he said nothing so I rode off. Weird experience.

Portland's finest? Oink oink.

Scott

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jboquiren@comcast.net

2010-01-18

That is my usual skating route Scott. I believe he would've bundled me up into his vehicle if he caught me on my inlines. Skaters get even LESS respect than cyclists :P

Joseph Boquiren

http://www.drunkduck.com/Samadhi_Pants/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Fitzwater"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:22:05 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!

This is simply unbelievable. I was on a 2 hr bike ride on an unexpectedly pleasant day of sunshine. Riding on N Willamette Blvd just past U of P on the bike path toward downtown. I was riding about 22 mph and approached another bike rider in the bike lane who was riding significantly slower. I looked over my left shoulder, saw that I has safe distance from the auto traffic behind me, signaled with my left hand/arm that I was coming out, went around the other bike rider, merged back into the bike lane and continued on at my 22 mph pace.

Next thing I know, there is a vehicle behind me siren blipping and lights flashing. Huh, is this guy pulling me over? I guess he is. I stop, the SUV size vehicle pulls over and the cop jumps out saying I failed to yield when I left the bike lane, entered his lane and passed the bike rider. His voice was raised and he's acting angry. I kid you not!! I asked him to calm down and he gets madder. I told him that I felt I safely executed the pass by looking behind, saw the safe distance and signaled. He disagreed again and threatened to ticket me. He asked for my ID. Luckily, I'd forgotten to bring any and he yelled "god damnit" when I told him. The "discussion" was devolving into "yes you did, no I didn't" and he was obviously in control (at one point he said "you're not free to go") so I finally said ok, you're right and just stared at him. He then called on his radio and asked if a car was nearby (presumably to arrest me??). I guess none were since one didn't show up.

The dude (who is a Sargent, by the way) then takes down my name, address, phone number and goes back into his vehicle. This whole time we're pulled over on the right, the cop vehicle is blocking the bike lane and all bike riders are having to leave the bike lane, enter the traffic lane and ride around us. Finally, he returns and has written me a warning. I ask what it meant and he said "nothing". I said I was sorry for the hassle, he said nothing so I rode off. Weird experience.

Portland's finest? Oink oink.

Scott

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=?utf-8?B?cm9zZW5mZWxkbWFAZ21haWwuY29t?=

2010-01-18

Well that will put a damper on your day.

Reminds me of the ticket a very portly officer gave me in lake oswego for failure to put my foot down at a stop sign. He was yelling so loud and he was turning purple.

You cant win with them so you did the right thing in staying calm.

Sent via Android.

----- Reply message -----
From: "Scott Fitzwater"
Date: Mon, Jan 18, 2010 1:22 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] I almost got arrested today while on a bike ride!
To:


Scott Fitzwater

2010-01-18

This is simply unbelievable. I was on a 2 hr bike ride on an unexpectedly
pleasant day of sunshine. Riding on N Willamette Blvd just past U of P on
the bike path toward downtown. I was riding about 22 mph and approached
another bike rider in the bike lane who was riding significantly slower. I
looked over my left shoulder, saw that I has safe distance from the auto
traffic behind me, signaled with my left hand/arm that I was coming out,
went around the other bike rider, merged back into the bike lane and
continued on at my 22 mph pace.

Next thing I know, there is a vehicle behind me siren blipping and lights
flashing. Huh, is this guy pulling me over? I guess he is. I stop, the SUV
size vehicle pulls over and the cop jumps out saying I failed to yield when
I left the bike lane, entered his lane and passed the bike rider. His voice
was raised and he's acting angry. I kid you not!! I asked him to calm down
and he gets madder. I told him that I felt I safely executed the pass by
looking behind, saw the safe distance and signaled. He disagreed again and
threatened to ticket me. He asked for my ID. Luckily, I'd forgotten to bring
any and he yelled "god damnit" when I told him. The "discussion" was
devolving into "yes you did, no I didn't" and he was obviously in control
(at one point he said "you're not free to go") so I finally said ok, you're
right and just stared at him. He then called on his radio and asked if a car
was nearby (presumably to arrest me??). I guess none were since one didn't
show up.

The dude (who is a Sargent, by the way) then takes down my name, address,
phone number and goes back into his vehicle. This whole time we're pulled
over on the right, the cop vehicle is blocking the bike lane and all bike
riders are having to leave the bike lane, enter the traffic lane and ride
around us. Finally, he returns and has written me a warning. I ask what it
meant and he said "nothing". I said I was sorry for the hassle, he said
nothing so I rode off. Weird experience.

Portland's finest? Oink oink.

Scott