Dennis Veatch

Lightweight? For a 200 lb rider plus gear? Unless your racing, might want
to balance lightweight with sturdy with an emphasis on sturdy, otherwise
you'll be retensioning often, rebuilding every few seasons, or end up in the
er like me from a taco in a corner. I'd go with 32 hole Mavic 717 (2.1
tire) or 819 rims (2.35 ust tire) with sapim cx-ray bladed spokes.
Absolutely use brass nipples. You'll pay for the spokes, but you'll pay
later if you don't pay now. If you're talking smooth ST true XC riding,
717's or equivalent. If you're hitting any rock gardens or small jumps,
speedy roots, etc. Go with the 819's. Our local LBS
www.universalCycles.com has one of the best builders around and can supply
it all. Check out their wheel builder tool online.
With the right quality hubs, your looking at a 1600gram set using the 717's
or a 1800gram with the 819's.

Dennis Veatch IDSA
industrial designer
dennis@creatID.com
www.creatID.com
c. 503.860.2095

------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 03:57:34 +0000
From: "David Rosen"
To: "OBRA"
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Spoke choice
Message-ID:

<1536024742-1265342240-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1391866682-@
bda152.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Content-Type: text/plain

For all of you wheel builders out there: if you wanted to build up a
lightweight set of xc mtb wheels, what type of spoke would you use? And just
to add some perspective, the rider in question is 200lbs.

Thanks.
Dave

john

26" wheels build quite strong. I am over 200 and i would have no qualms
with going to 28 spoke and using 1.8/1.6 double buttted. with a 15 gage
spoke you can still pull ~ 250 lb of force into each spoke and still have
infinite life... Rim strength is more of a limiting factor on spoke
tension...
so if you want lightweight: 24 spoke front. 28 rear. maybe 14 gauge elbow
for the high tension drive side and 3x cross on drive side. On front and
non-drive side, If you have 24 or 28 spoke hub, can get away with 1x or
radial, but if want no worries then 2x, 15 16 gauge... very low profile rim
though (like under 20mm), go back to 32 or even 36 spokes. Some might say a
15 gauge is bad on the hub flange. No not really, it will dig in more of
course, but its in compression, cracks can't grow in compression.
I never use alloy nipples with 14 gauge thread. 15 gauge "ok", in front or
on non-drive side... I wish someone would build a nipple
without a screwdriver slot... Ok maybe someone does now.
If you have the room consider inverting the nipple and using a washer to
spread out the force into the rim. without something that matches the
internal profile of the rim, this may be impossible, well more possible with
a MTB rim.. Doing this utilizes the nipple more as nut, as it should be,
keeping things in compression rather then crack inducing tension. And for
a 700c wheels under 24/28 spokes not using this sort of method and using
high spoke tension, Don't waste your money, the rim will most likely crack
in a couple years..
The spokes I use are usually decided by what i have laying around. for a
mtb wheel i would find a double butted long road spoke and cut and thread
the1.8 mm butt. You can re-use spokes. If they don't break while you are
building the wheel and taking advantage of the bauschinger effect, they
should have infinite life. If they don't have infinite life, you didn't
build correctly.

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 5:50 AM, G Magnus wrote:

> I was actually just having this conversation with Jack at Enselle. I don't
> know what the spoke was but he was reccommending some that are 14g near
> the hub then 15g on out to the rim. You get the the strength where you need
> it, and the weight where it least effects the rolling resistance. This
> spoke was per him actually orginally designed for mtb, I was looking at it
> for a cross wheel build.
>
> Gregg
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:36:45 -0800
> From: ewascent@gmail.com
> To: mikekerkmann@yahoo.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Spoke choice
>
> I agree that alloy nipples are not worth the weight they save over brass.
> Also consider UST or Stans rims as tubeless has less tendency for pinch
> flats.
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Mike Kerkmann wrote:
>
> I'll agree on the Sapim's, and their nipple are nice too. DT swiss
> competitions and Wheelsmith's offerings are right up there as well.
> If long term durability is a factor then brass over alloy nipples. Over
> time, fatigue weakens alloy nips, and it seems like after 3 or 4 years,
> their heads start to pop off about one every ride (ok, so I'm exaggerating a
> tiny bit, but you get the point).
> Lace them 3 cross. 32 hole should still be fine unless you have a tendency
> to smack into things or jump a lot.
> Pick a good rim (welded seams and eyelets are often better, but not
> always. Also, rims with steel eyelets can't go in the alu recycling bin).
> Your wheel builder will probably have a recommendation for you. Personally,
> I am anxious to try some Stan's rims.
>
> -Mike
>
> --- On *Thu, 2/4/10, Erik Voldengen * wrote:
>
>
> From: Erik Voldengen
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Spoke choice
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 8:02 PM
>
> Sapim Race. 2.0 x 1.8 double butted. Brass nipples. Best spokes evar!
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:57 PM, David Rosen >
> wrote:
> > For all of you wheel builders out there: if you wanted to build up a
> lightweight set of xc mtb wheels, what type of spoke would you use? And just
> to add some perspective, the rider in question is 200lbs.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Dave
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> Eric Aldinger
>
> ------------------------------
> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up
> now.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
jms, pe pdx, or

http://bikeeng.blogspot.com/search/label/spoked%20wheel

G Magnus

I was actually just having this conversation with Jack at Enselle. I don't know what the spoke was but he was reccommending some that are 14g near the hub then 15g on out to the rim. You get the the strength where you need it, and the weight where it least effects the rolling resistance. This spoke was per him actually orginally designed for mtb, I was looking at it for a cross wheel build.

Gregg

Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:36:45 -0800
From: ewascent@gmail.com
To: mikekerkmann@yahoo.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Spoke choice

I agree that alloy nipples are not worth the weight they save over brass. Also consider UST or Stans rims as tubeless has less tendency for pinch flats.

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Mike Kerkmann wrote:

I'll agree on the Sapim's, and their nipple are nice too. DT swiss competitions and Wheelsmith's offerings are right up there as well.
If long term durability is a factor then brass over alloy nipples. Over time, fatigue weakens alloy nips, and it seems like after 3 or 4 years, their heads start to pop off about one every ride (ok, so I'm exaggerating a tiny bit, but you get the point).
Lace them 3 cross. 32 hole should still be fine unless you have a tendency to smack into things or jump a lot.
Pick a good rim (welded seams and eyelets are often better, but not always. Also, rims with steel eyelets can't go in the alu recycling bin). Your wheel builder will probably have a recommendation for you. Personally, I am anxious to try some Stan's rims.

-Mike

--- On Thu, 2/4/10, Erik Voldengen wrote:

From: Erik Voldengen
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Spoke choice
To: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 8:02 PM

Sapim Race. 2.0 x 1.8 double butted. Brass nipples. Best spokes evar!

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:57 PM, David Rosen wrote:
> For all of you wheel builders out there: if you wanted to build up a lightweight set of xc mtb wheels, what type of spoke would you use? And just to add some perspective, the rider in question is 200lbs.
>
> Thanks.
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
Eric Aldinger

_________________________________________________________________
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eric aldinger

I agree that alloy nipples are not worth the weight they save over brass.
Also consider UST or Stans rims as tubeless has less tendency for pinch
flats.

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Mike Kerkmann wrote:

> I'll agree on the Sapim's, and their nipple are nice too. DT swiss
> competitions and Wheelsmith's offerings are right up there as well.
> If long term durability is a factor then brass over alloy nipples. Over
> time, fatigue weakens alloy nips, and it seems like after 3 or 4 years,
> their heads start to pop off about one every ride (ok, so I'm exaggerating a
> tiny bit, but you get the point).
> Lace them 3 cross. 32 hole should still be fine unless you have a tendency
> to smack into things or jump a lot.
> Pick a good rim (welded seams and eyelets are often better, but not
> always. Also, rims with steel eyelets can't go in the alu recycling bin).
> Your wheel builder will probably have a recommendation for you. Personally,
> I am anxious to try some Stan's rims.
>
> -Mike
>
> --- On *Thu, 2/4/10, Erik Voldengen * wrote:
>
>
> From: Erik Voldengen
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Spoke choice
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 8:02 PM
>
> Sapim Race. 2.0 x 1.8 double butted. Brass nipples. Best spokes evar!
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:57 PM, David Rosen >
> wrote:
> > For all of you wheel builders out there: if you wanted to build up a
> lightweight set of xc mtb wheels, what type of spoke would you use? And just
> to add some perspective, the rider in question is 200lbs.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Dave
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Eric Aldinger

Mike Kerkmann

I'll agree on the Sapim's, and their nipple are nice too.  DT swiss competitions and Wheelsmith's offerings are right up there as well. 
If long term durability is a factor then brass over alloy nipples.  Over time, fatigue weakens alloy nips, and it seems like after 3 or 4 years, their heads start to pop off about one every ride (ok, so I'm exaggerating a tiny bit, but you get the point). 
Lace them 3 cross.  32 hole should still be fine unless you have a tendency to smack into things or jump a lot.
Pick a good rim (welded seams and eyelets are often better, but not always.  Also, rims with steel eyelets can't go in the alu recycling bin).  Your wheel builder will probably have a recommendation for you.  Personally, I am anxious to try some Stan's rims.

-Mike

--- On Thu, 2/4/10, Erik Voldengen wrote:

From: Erik Voldengen
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Spoke choice
To: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 8:02 PM

Sapim Race.  2.0 x 1.8 double butted.  Brass nipples.  Best spokes evar!

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:57 PM, David Rosen wrote:
> For all of you wheel builders out there: if you wanted to build up a lightweight set of xc mtb wheels, what type of spoke would you use? And just to add some perspective, the rider in question is 200lbs.
>
> Thanks.
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Erik Voldengen

Sapim Race. 2.0 x 1.8 double butted. Brass nipples. Best spokes evar!

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:57 PM, David Rosen wrote:
> For all of you wheel builders out there: if you wanted to build up a lightweight set of xc mtb wheels, what type of spoke would you use? And just to add some perspective, the rider in question is 200lbs.
>
> Thanks.
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

David Rosen

For all of you wheel builders out there: if you wanted to build up a lightweight set of xc mtb wheels, what type of spoke would you use? And just to add some perspective, the rider in question is 200lbs.

Thanks.
Dave