Scott Kivitz

Bunny hop?

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Randy wrote:
> 2nd that
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 10, 2010, at 12:38 PM, a leitheiser wrote:
>
> Bikes. Please, bikes.
> ________________________________
> From: Robert
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 12:35:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hungry Roofer looking to trade
>
> Leland,
>
> My name is Robert Vigeant, and I am a licensed, bonded , and insured general
> contractor in Oregon.  It's my livelihood.  It's how I pay my bills, how I
> feed my family, how I pay my employees, how I support my racing addiction,
> and many other things.  I understand that work is very slow, but by working
> unlicensed, you are not only stealing from those of us who have spent many
> thousands of dollars and countless hours becoming legal contractors, but you
> are also putting your customers in jeopardy.  Leland, accidents happen, you
> know that as well as I do.  If you get hurt on the job, the HOMEOWNER
> becomes responsible for your medical bills if you can't pay.  There isn't
> any workers comp for you.  What about finishing the job?  If you get hurt
> and can't work, the HOMEOWNER has to pay again for the work.  There is no
> hope of recovering the money from your bond, because you don't have one.
> What about if the homeowner doesn't like your work?  They have NO ONE to
> complain to, and possibly receive compensation  (there is NO CHARGE for
> filling a complaint with the CCB). How about if you don't pay for your
> materials?  The supplier (like Parr lumber, Wood feathers, etc.) will LIEN
> YOUR CUSTOMER'S HOME to get their money. All this is before we even get to
> the fines for both you and the homeowner.
>
> Leland, if you are as good as you say, and can prove it, contact me.  I am a
> general contractor, and I work with a roofing company that has more work
> than they have people for.  Not everyone on their crew speaks perfect
> english, but they ARE licensed, bonded, and insured.
>
> Robert Vigeant
> SundanceOregon, Inc
> CCB# 189014
> 503.406.8275
>
>>Dan - I agree, be careful who you choose to do the work and AMEN to the
>>good reputation bit. The Contractors Board can only issue fines if a person
>>was performing construction work for compensation. When I roofed my buddy's
>>house last year, a contractors board employee would have discovered upon
>>their inquiry that I was simply helping a friend for 'FREE' since he has
>>always been kind enough to service my bike when needed. As I was simply
>>installing the materials he purchased and not being compensated, he was not
>>required to carry workers comp for me as an employee. Nice how friends can
>>still help friends in our country without paying huge fines to the
>>contractors board.
>>Leland
>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 7:01 AM, Dan Watson wrote:
>
>> There are a lot of bad contractors out there, that's why I informed
>> everyone to be careful with who they choose to work on their house. Good
>> work and reputation is keeping those with good quality busy.
>>
>> There's a big difference between handyman quality and craftsman quality.
>>
>> The homeowner and the fake contractor are both subject to fines.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 9, 2010, at 22:16, Leland Jossy wrote:
>>
>> Thanks to Steven Holland for the compliments. A note to Dan Watson about
>> your response: I am not trying to impersonate a contractor. As a human
>> being, I am legal in the state of Oregon to do such tasks as gutter
>> cleaning, pressure washing, moss removal, treating roofs, yard work,
>> landscaping, etc. but the contractor board sticks it's nose in when it
>> comes
>> to construction work including roofing and roof repairs. I will tell you
>> right now that you are NOT guaranteed a quality job by hiring a
>> contractor.
>> It CAN be a license to rip-off John Q Public. In my 22 years as a roofer,
>> I
>> have seen it all and worked for companies that sold work at the MARKET
>> PRICE
>> (which is much higher than I charge my friends) that is absolutely
>> atrocious. Part of the problem is that there is absolutely no inspection
>> or
>> assurance of quality when it comes to the roofing trade. I am not
>> bragging,
>> simply stating fact, that I do better work than ANY roofing contractor in
>> town. The main reason is that I care and I am the one on the job, not some
>> worker getting paid by the piece to slam on as much as they can,
>> regardless
>> of the quality. I have a long list of top quality jobs that I have
>> completed
>> and I challenge anyone to try to pick my work apart. Dan, you stated if
>> I was to do a roof job without a contractor license that myself and the
>> party that hired me would both be liable for a $1000 fine. Please call the
>> contractor board and find out for yourself that you are wrong. What I have
>> been told is that I would be liable for a fine of up to $5000 but NOT the
>> homeowner. Furthermore, I stated that if someone wanted the security (and
>> much higher price) of hiring a licensed contractor, then my boss would be
>> happy to be the middle man and someone could get my personal good quality
>> work at the same price as a contractor would charge for a hack job done by
>> employees who don't care about doing a quality job. I can legally do
>> roofing
>> for family. I can also legally roof anything I want to as long as I am not
>> being compensated. The contractors board has established these laws to
>> 'protect the public'. What if some 'board' decided that bike racing was
>> too
>> dangerous and the public needed protection from possible injury, or sky
>> diving or surfing or being a rodeo cowboy etc.etc. Should 'BOARDS' be
>> granted so much protection power that you can not hire a person you know
>> to
>> do quality work at an affordable price, and thus be forced to pay top
>> dollar
>> for a poor quality job done by some contractors employees who probably
>> cant
>> even speak English? Do you know what I would tell some construction
>> contractors board inspector who stuck his nose in the middle of me doing a
>> roof job for a friend? "I am working for free because this person is my
>> friend"
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe:
>> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I’m not
sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. –Alan
Greenspan.

Randy

2nd that

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 10, 2010, at 12:38 PM, a leitheiser wrote:

Bikes. Please, bikes.

From: Robert
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 12:35:35 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hungry Roofer looking to trade

Leland,

My name is Robert Vigeant, and I am a licensed, bonded , and insured general contractor in Oregon. It's my livelihood. It's how I pay my bills, how I feed my family, how I pay my employees, how I support my racing addiction, and many other things. I understand that work is very slow, but by working unlicensed, you are not only stealing from those of us who have spent many thousands of dollars and countless hours becoming legal contractors, but you are also putting your customers in jeopardy. Leland, accidents happen, you know that as well as I do. If you get hurt on the job, the HOMEOWNER becomes responsible for your medical bills if you can't pay. There isn't any workers comp for you. What about finishing the job? If you get hurt and can't work, the HOMEOWNER has to pay again for the work. There is no hope of recovering the money from your bond, because you don't have one. What about if the homeowner doesn't like your work? They have NO ONE
to complain to, and possibly receive compensation (there is NO CHARGE for filling a complaint with the CCB). How about if you don't pay for your materials? The supplier (like Parr lumber, Wood feathers, etc.) will LIEN YOUR CUSTOMER'S HOME to get their money. All this is before we even get to the fines for both you and the homeowner.

Leland, if you are as good as you say, and can prove it, contact me. I am a general contractor, and I work with a roofing company that has more work than they have people for. Not everyone on their crew speaks perfect english, but they ARE licensed, bonded, and insured.

Robert Vigeant
SundanceOregon, Inc
CCB# 189014
503.406.8275

>Dan - I agree, be careful who you choose to do the work and AMEN to the
>good reputation bit. The Contractors Board can only issue fines if a person
>was performing construction work for compensation. When I roofed my buddy's
>house last year, a contractors board employee would have discovered upon
>their inquiry that I was simply helping a friend for 'FREE' since he has
>always been kind enough to service my bike when needed. As I was simply
>installing the materials he purchased and not being compensated, he was not
>required to carry workers comp for me as an employee. Nice how friends can
>still help friends in our country without paying huge fines to the
>contractors board.
>Leland

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 7:01 AM, Dan Watson wrote:

> There are a lot of bad contractors out there, that's why I informed
> everyone to be careful with who they choose to work on their house. Good
> work and reputation is keeping those with good quality busy.
>
> There's a big difference between handyman quality and craftsman quality.
>
> The homeowner and the fake contractor are both subject to fines.
>
> Dan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 9, 2010, at 22:16, Leland Jossy wrote:
>
> Thanks to Steven Holland for the compliments. A note to Dan Watson about
> your response: I am not trying to impersonate a contractor. As a human
> being, I am legal in the state of Oregon to do such tasks as gutter
> cleaning, pressure washing, moss removal, treating roofs, yard work,
> landscaping, etc. but the contractor board sticks it's nose in when it comes
> to construction work including roofing and roof repairs. I will tell you
> right now that you are NOT guaranteed a quality job by hiring a contractor.
> It CAN be a license to rip-off John Q Public. In my 22 years as a roofer, I
> have seen it all and worked for companies that sold work at the MARKET PRICE
> (which is much higher than I charge my friends) that is absolutely
> atrocious. Part of the problem is that there is absolutely no inspection or
> assurance of quality when it comes to the roofing trade. I am not bragging,
> simply stating fact, that I do better work than ANY roofing contractor in
> town. The main reason is that I care and I am the one on the job, not some
> worker getting paid by the piece to slam on as much as they can, regardless
> of the quality. I have a long list of top quality jobs that I have completed
> and I challenge anyone to try to pick my work apart. Dan, you stated if
> I was to do a roof job without a contractor license that myself and the
> party that hired me would both be liable for a $1000 fine. Please call the
> contractor board and find out for yourself that you are wrong. What I have
> been told is that I would be liable for a fine of up to $5000 but NOT the
> homeowner. Furthermore, I stated that if someone wanted the security (and
> much higher price) of hiring a licensed contractor, then my boss would be
> happy to be the middle man and someone could get my personal good quality
> work at the same price as a contractor would charge for a hack job done by
> employees who don't care about doing a quality job. I can legally do roofing
> for family. I can also legally roof anything I want to as long as I am not
> being compensated. The contractors board has established these laws to
> 'protect the public'. What if some 'board' decided that bike racing was too
> dangerous and the public needed protection from possible injury, or sky
> diving or surfing or being a rodeo cowboy etc.etc. Should 'BOARDS' be
> granted so much protection power that you can not hire a person you know to
> do quality work at an affordable price, and thus be forced to pay top dollar
> for a poor quality job done by some contractors employees who probably cant
> even speak English? Do you know what I would tell some construction
> contractors board inspector who stuck his nose in the middle of me doing a
> roof job for a friend? "I am working for free because this person is my
> friend"
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe:
> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

a leitheiser

Bikes. Please, bikes.

________________________________
From: Robert
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 12:35:35 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hungry Roofer looking to trade

Leland,

My name is Robert Vigeant, and I am a licensed, bonded , and insured general contractor in Oregon. It's my livelihood. It's how I pay my bills, how I feed my family, how I pay my employees, how I support my racing addiction, and many other things. I understand that work is very slow, but by working unlicensed, you are not only stealing from those of us who have spent many thousands of dollars and countless hours becoming legal contractors, but you are also putting your customers in jeopardy. Leland, accidents happen, you know that as well as I do. If you get hurt on the job, the HOMEOWNER becomes responsible for your medical bills if you can't pay. There isn't any workers comp for you. What about finishing the job? If you get hurt and can't work, the HOMEOWNER has to pay again for the work. There is no hope of recovering the money from your bond, because you don't have one. What about if the homeowner doesn't like your work? They have NO ONE
to complain to, and possibly receive compensation (there is NO CHARGE for filling a complaint with the CCB). How about if you don't pay for your materials? The supplier (like Parr lumber, Wood feathers, etc.) will LIEN YOUR CUSTOMER'S HOME to get their money. All this is before we even get to the fines for both you and the homeowner.

Leland, if you are as good as you say, and can prove it, contact me. I am a general contractor, and I work with a roofing company that has more work than they have people for. Not everyone on their crew speaks perfect english, but they ARE licensed, bonded, and insured.

Robert Vigeant
SundanceOregon, Inc
CCB# 189014
503.406.8275

>Dan - I agree, be careful who you choose to do the work and AMEN to the
>good reputation bit. The Contractors Board can only issue fines if a person
>was performing construction work for compensation. When I roofed my buddy's
>house last year, a contractors board employee would have discovered upon
>their inquiry that I was simply helping a friend for 'FREE' since he has
>always been kind enough to service my bike when needed. As I was simply
>installing the materials he purchased and not being compensated, he was not
>required to carry workers comp for me as an employee. Nice how friends can
>still help friends in our country without paying huge fines to the
>contractors board.
>Leland

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 7:01 AM, Dan Watson wrote:

> There are a lot of bad contractors out there, that's why I informed
> everyone to be careful with who they choose to work on their house. Good
> work and reputation is keeping those with good quality busy.
>
> There's a big difference between handyman quality and craftsman quality.
>
> The homeowner and the fake contractor are both subject to fines.
>
> Dan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 9, 2010, at 22:16, Leland Jossy wrote:
>
> Thanks to Steven Holland for the compliments. A note to Dan Watson about
> your response: I am not trying to impersonate a contractor. As a human
> being, I am legal in the state of Oregon to do such tasks as gutter
> cleaning, pressure washing, moss removal, treating roofs, yard work,
> landscaping, etc. but the contractor board sticks it's nose in when it comes
> to construction work including roofing and roof repairs. I will tell you
> right now that you are NOT guaranteed a quality job by hiring a contractor.
> It CAN be a license to rip-off John Q Public. In my 22 years as a roofer, I
> have seen it all and worked for companies that sold work at the MARKET PRICE
> (which is much higher than I charge my friends) that is absolutely
> atrocious. Part of the problem is that there is absolutely no inspection or
> assurance of quality when it comes to the roofing trade. I am not bragging,
> simply stating fact, that I do better work than ANY roofing contractor in
> town. The main reason is that I care and I am the one on the job, not some
> worker getting paid by the piece to slam on as much as they can, regardless
> of the quality. I have a long list of top quality jobs that I have completed
> and I challenge anyone to try to pick my work apart. Dan, you stated if
> I was to do a roof job without a contractor license that myself and the
> party that hired me would both be liable for a $1000 fine. Please call the
> contractor board and find out for yourself that you are wrong. What I have
> been told is that I would be liable for a fine of up to $5000 but NOT the
> homeowner. Furthermore, I stated that if someone wanted the security (and
> much higher price) of hiring a licensed contractor, then my boss would be
> happy to be the middle man and someone could get my personal good quality
> work at the same price as a contractor would charge for a hack job done by
> employees who don't care about doing a quality job. I can legally do roofing
> for family. I can also legally roof anything I want to as long as I am not
> being compensated. The contractors board has established these laws to
> 'protect the public'. What if some 'board' decided that bike racing was too
> dangerous and the public needed protection from possible injury, or sky
> diving or surfing or being a rodeo cowboy etc.etc. Should 'BOARDS' be
> granted so much protection power that you can not hire a person you know to
> do quality work at an affordable price, and thus be forced to pay top dollar
> for a poor quality job done by some contractors employees who probably cant
> even speak English? Do you know what I would tell some construction
> contractors board inspector who stuck his nose in the middle of me doing a
> roof job for a friend? "I am working for free because this person is my
> friend"
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe:
> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Robert

Leland,

My name is Robert Vigeant, and I am a licensed, bonded , and insured
general contractor in Oregon. It's my livelihood. It's how I pay my
bills, how I feed my family, how I pay my employees, how I support my
racing addiction, and many other things. I understand that work is very
slow, but by working unlicensed, you are not only stealing from those of
us who have spent many thousands of dollars and countless hours becoming
legal contractors, but you are also putting your customers in jeopardy.
Leland, accidents happen, you know that as well as I do. If you get
hurt on the job, the HOMEOWNER becomes responsible for your medical
bills if you can't pay. There isn't any workers comp for you. What
about finishing the job? If you get hurt and can't work, the HOMEOWNER
has to pay again for the work. There is no hope of recovering the money
from your bond, because you don't have one. What about if the homeowner
doesn't like your work? They have NO ONE to complain to, and possibly
receive compensation (there is NO CHARGE for filling a complaint with
the CCB). How about if you don't pay for your materials? The supplier
(like Parr lumber, Wood feathers, etc.) will LIEN YOUR CUSTOMER'S HOME
to get their money. All this is before we even get to the fines for both
you and the homeowner.

Leland, if you are as good as you say, and can prove it, contact me. I
am a general contractor, and I work with a roofing company that has more
work than they have people for. Not everyone on their crew speaks
perfect english, but they ARE licensed, bonded, and insured.

Robert Vigeant
SundanceOregon, Inc
CCB# 189014
503.406.8275

>Dan - I agree, be careful who you choose to do the work and AMEN to the
>good reputation bit. The Contractors Board can only issue fines if a
person
>was performing construction work for compensation. When I roofed my
buddy's
>house last year, a contractors board employee would have discovered upon
>their inquiry that I was simply helping a friend for 'FREE' since he has
>always been kind enough to service my bike when needed. As I was simply
>installing the materials he purchased and not being compensated, he
was not
>required to carry workers comp for me as an employee. Nice how friends
can
>still help friends in our country without paying huge fines to the
>contractors board.
>Leland

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 7:01 AM, Dan Watson wrote:

> There are a lot of bad contractors out there, that's why I informed
> everyone to be careful with who they choose to work on their house. Good
> work and reputation is keeping those with good quality busy.
>
> There's a big difference between handyman quality and craftsman quality.
>
> The homeowner and the fake contractor are both subject to fines.
>
> Dan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 9, 2010, at 22:16, Leland Jossy wrote:
>
> Thanks to Steven Holland for the compliments. A note to Dan Watson about
> your response: I am not trying to impersonate a contractor. As a human
> being, I am legal in the state of Oregon to do such tasks as gutter
> cleaning, pressure washing, moss removal, treating roofs, yard work,
> landscaping, etc. but the contractor board sticks it's nose in when
it comes
> to construction work including roofing and roof repairs. I will tell you
> right now that you are NOT guaranteed a quality job by hiring a
contractor.
> It CAN be a license to rip-off John Q Public. In my 22 years as a
roofer, I
> have seen it all and worked for companies that sold work at the
MARKET PRICE
> (which is much higher than I charge my friends) that is absolutely
> atrocious. Part of the problem is that there is absolutely no
inspection or
> assurance of quality when it comes to the roofing trade. I am not
bragging,
> simply stating fact, that I do better work than ANY roofing
contractor in
> town. The main reason is that I care and I am the one on the job, not
some
> worker getting paid by the piece to slam on as much as they can,
regardless
> of the quality. I have a long list of top quality jobs that I have
completed
> and I challenge anyone to try to pick my work apart. Dan, you stated if
> I was to do a roof job without a contractor license that myself and the
> party that hired me would both be liable for a $1000 fine. Please
call the
> contractor board and find out for yourself that you are wrong. What I
have
> been told is that I would be liable for a fine of up to $5000 but NOT
the
> homeowner. Furthermore, I stated that if someone wanted the security
(and
> much higher price) of hiring a licensed contractor, then my boss
would be
> happy to be the middle man and someone could get my personal good
quality
> work at the same price as a contractor would charge for a hack job
done by
> employees who don't care about doing a quality job. I can legally do
roofing
> for family. I can also legally roof anything I want to as long as I
am not
> being compensated. The contractors board has established these laws to
> 'protect the public'. What if some 'board' decided that bike racing
was too
> dangerous and the public needed protection from possible injury, or sky
> diving or surfing or being a rodeo cowboy etc.etc. Should 'BOARDS' be
> granted so much protection power that you can not hire a person you
know to
> do quality work at an affordable price, and thus be forced to pay top
dollar
> for a poor quality job done by some contractors employees who
probably cant
> even speak English? Do you know what I would tell some construction
> contractors board inspector who stuck his nose in the middle of me
doing a
> roof job for a friend? "I am working for free because this person is my
> friend"
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe:
> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>

Leland Jossy

Dan - I agree, be careful who you choose to do the work and AMEN to the
good reputation bit. The Contractors Board can only issue fines if a person
was performing construction work for compensation. When I roofed my buddy's
house last year, a contractors board employee would have discovered upon
their inquiry that I was simply helping a friend for 'FREE' since he has
always been kind enough to service my bike when needed. As I was simply
installing the materials he purchased and not being compensated, he was not
required to carry workers comp for me as an employee. Nice how friends can
still help friends in our country without paying huge fines to the
contractors board.
Leland

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 7:01 AM, Dan Watson wrote:

> There are a lot of bad contractors out there, that's why I informed
> everyone to be careful with who they choose to work on their house. Good
> work and reputation is keeping those with good quality busy.
>
> There's a big difference between handyman quality and craftsman quality.
>
> The homeowner and the fake contractor are both subject to fines.
>
> Dan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 9, 2010, at 22:16, Leland Jossy wrote:
>
> Thanks to Steven Holland for the compliments. A note to Dan Watson about
> your response: I am not trying to impersonate a contractor. As a human
> being, I am legal in the state of Oregon to do such tasks as gutter
> cleaning, pressure washing, moss removal, treating roofs, yard work,
> landscaping, etc. but the contractor board sticks it's nose in when it comes
> to construction work including roofing and roof repairs. I will tell you
> right now that you are NOT guaranteed a quality job by hiring a contractor.
> It CAN be a license to rip-off John Q Public. In my 22 years as a roofer, I
> have seen it all and worked for companies that sold work at the MARKET PRICE
> (which is much higher than I charge my friends) that is absolutely
> atrocious. Part of the problem is that there is absolutely no inspection or
> assurance of quality when it comes to the roofing trade. I am not bragging,
> simply stating fact, that I do better work than ANY roofing contractor in
> town. The main reason is that I care and I am the one on the job, not some
> worker getting paid by the piece to slam on as much as they can, regardless
> of the quality. I have a long list of top quality jobs that I have completed
> and I challenge anyone to try to pick my work apart. Dan, you stated if
> I was to do a roof job without a contractor license that myself and the
> party that hired me would both be liable for a $1000 fine. Please call the
> contractor board and find out for yourself that you are wrong. What I have
> been told is that I would be liable for a fine of up to $5000 but NOT the
> homeowner. Furthermore, I stated that if someone wanted the security (and
> much higher price) of hiring a licensed contractor, then my boss would be
> happy to be the middle man and someone could get my personal good quality
> work at the same price as a contractor would charge for a hack job done by
> employees who don't care about doing a quality job. I can legally do roofing
> for family. I can also legally roof anything I want to as long as I am not
> being compensated. The contractors board has established these laws to
> 'protect the public'. What if some 'board' decided that bike racing was too
> dangerous and the public needed protection from possible injury, or sky
> diving or surfing or being a rodeo cowboy etc.etc. Should 'BOARDS' be
> granted so much protection power that you can not hire a person you know to
> do quality work at an affordable price, and thus be forced to pay top dollar
> for a poor quality job done by some contractors employees who probably cant
> even speak English? Do you know what I would tell some construction
> contractors board inspector who stuck his nose in the middle of me doing a
> roof job for a friend? "I am working for free because this person is my
> friend"
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe:
> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>

Leland Jossy

Jake- Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I realize that becoming a contractor
takes money and a lot of effort. You are certainly right about us
construction workers being underemployed. As I have watched my employer
struggle to keep work coming in and watched my hours and paychecks dwindle
away, I am a long way from taking even the first step towards being a
contractor. Hell, my kid needs a bike! I do too since I am forced to race my
single speed to try to compete with people with gear selections. That is
mainly why I listed my services on a bike race list. Yeah, times are tough.
OK, maybe that comment about roofing employees speaking English may have
been a bit out of line and I apologize. I am disappointed, however, to see
what has happened to my trade. I have never worked for a union company in
the past so things may be different there, but as far as non-union roofing
contractors, there are pages and pages in the phone book. I have seen wages
pretty much remain unchanged as inflation runs the price of everything else
up. Roofing has always been a 'piecework' trade and contractors have had to
raise their rates as insurance rates and material prices have skyrocketed
over the years, not to mention the taxes and fees you speak of. But when
people are willing to flock to our country and work for dirt cheap, many
contractors are willing to take advantage of this in order to compete with
the others. I don't mean to say that only non-English speaking roofers do
shoddy work but I am appalled by a lot of the work that does actually pass
as a legitimate roofing job, wheather or not the employee speaks English.
When roofers are given the 'opportunity' to basically write their own
paycheck by blasting on as many bundles of roofing as possible, they seem to
so often not care at all about the quality of the work. They cut corners and
leave the customer with substandard work. Their theory is that 'it looks
fine from the ground' the boss says 'It looks even better from the bank'.
What homeowner is actually going to get up there and make sure that the
fasteners are placed in the right place according to manufacturers
guidelines? Elderly people are often victims of this.
I urge anyone who hires a contractor to ask for references and get it in
writing that the material will be installed according to manufacturers
specifications. That way, if the employees don't know the proper way to
install the product, or simply don't care and can make a bigger paycheck by
doing it 'their way', then the homeowner doesn't get screwed. A material
warranty is only valid if the material is PROPERLY installed. If the roof
blows off in high wind, or leaks a few years down the road, the homeowner
has a legal course of action to pursue if the contract stated that the roof
would be installed according to manufacturers specs. I would personally look
over their shoulder as they were working and absolutely stop the work if a
contractor was not installing according to the contract. There are
instructions on the back of every bundle of shingles that list the
requirements. On a big investment such as a roof, a person could hire a home
inspector to show up and have a look during the installation phase if they
are not comfortable climbing a ladder and looking for themselves. I would
love to have that job!
The ROOF BUTCHERS would cringe at the sight of me showing up on their job. I
would probably end up wearing a pair of cement overshoes though.

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Jake Rosenfeld wrote:

> Wow Mr. Jossy,
>
> Sounds like you've thought of every angle around being licensed and you
> really know your "Rights". If you are as concientious and talented as you
> say you are, and I don't doubt that you are, you should have no problem
> joining the ranks of licensed contractors. At this point you could
> experience how much fun it is to first find, then purchase insurance
> and bonding, take the time to go to the state to get your liscense by
> first taking the classes then passing the tests and then agreeing to
> maintain the appropriate amount of continuing education hours. At that
> point as a small buisiness owner you could experience the joy of paying
> roughly 15% self emploment tax, you can start paying the county personal
> property tax just for the right to keep your work tools at home with you.
> You can also start paying Tri met tax just because they can bring business
> to your door for you. All this and we haven't even touched on becoming an
> employer yet.......
>
> Anyway, I really don't have a problem with you doing roof repairs or
> whatever, If you want to toss out your availability for odd jobs on a bike
> race list-serve then i'm ok with that too. I think everyone in the
> construction world is a little underemployed right now and we all have to do
> what it takes to put food on the table but I dont think there is a need to
> belittle or make light of what it takes to be legal in the construction
> world and I don't think that "some contractors employees ability to speak
> english" has any place in the conversation.
>
> All the best,
> Jake Rosenfeld
> ccb# 89759
> Jake Rosenfeld Construction
> Custom framing
> General Contractor
> Certified strutural welder
> Crane service
> French fries :-)
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Leland Jossy
>
> *To:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Sent:* Tue, February 9, 2010 10:16:53 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Hungry Roofer looking to trade
>
> Thanks to Steven Holland for the compliments. A note to Dan Watson about
> your response: I am not trying to impersonate a contractor. As a human
> being, I am legal in the state of Oregon to do such tasks as gutter
> cleaning, pressure washing, moss removal, treating roofs, yard work,
> landscaping, etc. but the contractor board sticks it's nose in when it comes
> to construction work including roofing and roof repairs. I will tell you
> right now that you are NOT guaranteed a quality job by hiring a contractor.
> It CAN be a license to rip-off John Q Public. In my 22 years as a roofer, I
> have seen it all and worked for companies that sold work at the MARKET PRICE
> (which is much higher than I charge my friends) that is absolutely
> atrocious. Part of the problem is that there is absolutely no inspection or
> assurance of quality when it comes to the roofing trade. I am not bragging,
> simply stating fact, that I do better work than ANY roofing contractor in
> town. The main reason is that I care and I am the one on the job, not some
> worker getting paid by the piece to slam on as much as they can, regardless
> of the quality. I have a long list of top quality jobs that I have completed
> and I challenge anyone to try to pick my work apart. Dan, you stated if
> I was to do a roof job without a contractor license that myself and the
> party that hired me would both be liable for a $1000 fine. Please call the
> contractor board and find out for yourself that you are wrong. What I have
> been told is that I would be liable for a fine of up to $5000 but NOT the
> homeowner. Furthermore, I stated that if someone wanted the security (and
> much higher price) of hiring a licensed contractor, then my boss would be
> happy to be the middle man and someone could get my personal good quality
> work at the same price as a contractor would charge for a hack job done by
> employees who don't care about doing a quality job. I can legally do roofing
> for family. I can also legally roof anything I want to as long as I am not
> being compensated. The contractors board has established these laws to
> 'protect the public'. What if some 'board' decided that bike racing was too
> dangerous and the public needed protection from possible injury, or sky
> diving or surfing or being a rodeo cowboy etc.etc. Should 'BOARDS' be
> granted so much protection power that you can not hire a person you know to
> do quality work at an affordable price, and thus be forced to pay top dollar
> for a poor quality job done by some contractors employees who probably cant
> even speak English? Do you know what I would tell some construction
> contractors board inspector who stuck his nose in the middle of me doing a
> roof job for a friend? "I am working for free because this person is my
> friend"
>
>

Jake Rosenfeld

Wow Mr. Jossy,

  Sounds like you've thought of every angle around being licensed and you really know your "Rights".  If you are as concientious and talented as you say you are, and I don't doubt that you are, you should have no problem joining the ranks of  licensed contractors.  At this point you could experience how much fun it is to first find, then purchase insurance
and bonding,  take the time to go to the state to get your liscense by first taking the classes then passing the tests and then agreeing to maintain the appropriate amount of continuing education hours.  At that point  as a small buisiness owner you could experience the joy of  paying roughly 15% self emploment tax, you can start paying the county personal property tax just for the right to keep your work tools at home with you. You can also start paying Tri met tax just because they can bring business to your door  for you.  All this and we haven't even touched on becoming an employer yet.......
    
 Anyway,   I really don't have a problem with you doing roof repairs or whatever,  If you want to toss out your availability for odd jobs on a bike race list-serve then i'm ok with that too.  I think everyone in the construction world is a little underemployed right now and we all have to do what it takes to put food on the table but I dont think there is a need to belittle or make light of what it takes to be legal in the construction world and I don't think that "some contractors employees ability to speak english"  has any place in the conversation.

All the best,
Jake Rosenfeld
ccb# 89759
Jake Rosenfeld Construction
Custom framing
General Contractor
Certified  strutural welder
Crane service
French fries :-)

________________________________
From: Leland Jossy
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 10:16:53 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hungry Roofer looking to trade

Thanks to Steven Holland for the compliments. A note to Dan Watson about your response: I am not trying to impersonate a contractor. As a human being, I am legal in the state of Oregon to do such tasks as gutter cleaning, pressure washing, moss removal, treating roofs, yard work, landscaping, etc. but the contractor board sticks it's nose in when it comes to construction work including roofing and roof repairs. I will tell you right now that you are NOT guaranteed a quality job by hiring a contractor. It CAN be a license to rip-off John Q Public. In my 22 years as a roofer, I have seen it all and worked for companies that sold work at the MARKET PRICE (which is much higher than I charge my friends) that is absolutely atrocious. Part of the problem is that there is absolutely no inspection or assurance of quality when it comes to the roofing trade. I am not bragging, simply stating fact, that I do better work than ANY roofing contractor in town. The main
reason is that I care and I am the one on the job, not some worker getting paid by the piece to slam on as much as they can, regardless of the quality. I have a long list of top quality jobs that I have completed and I challenge anyone to try to pick my work apart.     Dan, you stated if I was to do a roof job without a contractor license that myself and the party that hired me would both be liable for a $1000 fine. Please call the contractor board and find out for yourself that you are wrong. What I have been told is that I would be liable for a fine of up to $5000 but NOT the homeowner. Furthermore, I stated that if someone wanted the security (and much higher price) of hiring a licensed contractor, then my boss would be happy to be the middle man and someone could get my personal good quality work at the same price as a contractor would charge for a hack job done by employees who don't care about doing a quality job. I can legally do roofing for
family. I can also legally roof anything I want to as long as I am not being compensated. The contractors board has established these laws to 'protect the public'. What if some 'board' decided that bike racing was too dangerous and the public needed protection from possible injury, or sky diving or surfing or being a rodeo cowboy etc.etc.   Should 'BOARDS' be granted so much protection power that you can not hire a person you know to do quality work at an affordable price, and thus be forced to pay top dollar for a poor quality job done by some contractors employees who probably cant even speak English?    Do you know what I would tell some construction contractors board inspector who stuck his nose in the middle of me doing a roof job for a friend? "I am working for free because this person is my friend"

Dan Watson

There are a lot of bad contractors out there, that's why I informed everyone to be careful with who they choose to work on their house. Good work and reputation is keeping those with good quality busy.

There's a big difference between handyman quality and craftsman quality.

The homeowner and the fake contractor are both subject to fines.

Dan

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 9, 2010, at 22:16, Leland Jossy wrote:

Thanks to Steven Holland for the compliments. A note to Dan Watson about your response: I am not trying to impersonate a contractor. As a human being, I am legal in the state of Oregon to do such tasks as gutter cleaning, pressure washing, moss removal, treating roofs, yard work, landscaping, etc. but the contractor board sticks it's nose in when it comes to construction work including roofing and roof repairs. I will tell you right now that you are NOT guaranteed a quality job by hiring a contractor. It CAN be a license to rip-off John Q Public. In my 22 years as a roofer, I have seen it all and worked for companies that sold work at the MARKET PRICE (which is much higher than I charge my friends) that is absolutely atrocious. Part of the problem is that there is absolutely no inspection or assurance of quality when it comes to the roofing trade. I am not bragging, simply stating fact, that I do better work than ANY roofing contractor in town. The main
reason is that I care and I am the one on the job, not some worker getting paid by the piece to slam on as much as they can, regardless of the quality. I have a long list of top quality jobs that I have completed and I challenge anyone to try to pick my work apart. Dan, you stated if I was to do a roof job without a contractor license that myself and the party that hired me would both be liable for a $1000 fine. Please call the contractor board and find out for yourself that you are wrong. What I have been told is that I would be liable for a fine of up to $5000 but NOT the homeowner. Furthermore, I stated that if someone wanted the security (and much higher price) of hiring a licensed contractor, then my boss would be happy to be the middle man and someone could get my personal good quality work at the same price as a contractor would charge for a hack job done by employees who don't care about doing a quality job. I can legally do roofing for
family. I can also legally roof anything I want to as long as I am not being compensated. The contractors board has established these laws to 'protect the public'. What if some 'board' decided that bike racing was too dangerous and the public needed protection from possible injury, or sky diving or surfing or being a rodeo cowboy etc.etc. Should 'BOARDS' be granted so much protection power that you can not hire a person you know to do quality work at an affordable price, and thus be forced to pay top dollar for a poor quality job done by some contractors employees who probably cant even speak English? Do you know what I would tell some construction contractors board inspector who stuck his nose in the middle of me doing a roof job for a friend? "I am working for free because this person is my friend"
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Mike Kerkmann

Is it true that the contractors board charges ($50?) for a person to register a complaint against a contractor?
Good luck finding feedback there regarding someone you may hire.
 
As the original poster stated, a license does not mean the person is actually qualified to do the job, just that they passed a test and threw down a fist full of cash for a license, bond, insurance, and misc other fees (like license number stickers for their work rig).
 
Not advocating hiring unlicensed professionals, just hinting that you can be stung or have an awesome experience either way. References and referrals... the way to go.
 

Justin Serna

Leland, I hear you brother and I support you.  I also understand that you were probably angered by Mr. Watson's post but you need to check yourself on the non english speaking comment.  If it were not for the non-english speakers in the work force many of the jobs in america would not be done!

Justin J. Serna

--- On Tue, 2/9/10, Leland Jossy wrote:

From: Leland Jossy
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hungry Roofer looking to trade
To: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Tuesday, February 9, 2010, 10:16 PM

Thanks to Steven Holland for the compliments. A note to Dan Watson about your response: I am not trying to impersonate a contractor. As a human being, I am legal in the state of Oregon to do such tasks as gutter cleaning, pressure washing, moss removal, treating roofs, yard work, landscaping, etc. but the contractor board sticks it's nose in when it comes to construction work including roofing and roof repairs. I will tell you right now that you are NOT guaranteed a quality job by hiring a contractor. It CAN be a license to rip-off John Q Public. In my 22 years as a roofer, I have seen it all and worked for companies that sold work at the MARKET PRICE (which is much higher than I charge my friends) that is absolutely atrocious. Part of the problem is that there is absolutely no inspection or assurance of quality when it comes to the roofing trade. I am not bragging, simply stating fact, that I do better
work than ANY roofing
contractor in town. The main reason is that I care and I am the one on the job, not some worker getting paid by the piece to slam on as much as they can, regardless of the quality. I have a long list of top quality jobs that I have completed and I challenge anyone to try to pick my work apart. Dan, you stated if I was to do a roof job without a contractor license that myself and the party that hired me would both be liable for a $1000 fine. Please call the contractor board and find out for yourself that you are wrong. What I have been told is that I would be liable for a fine of up to $5000 but NOT the homeowner. Furthermore, I stated that if someone wanted the security (and much higher price) of hiring a licensed contractor, then my boss would be happy to be the middle man and someone could get my personal good quality work at the same price as a contractor would charge for a hack job done by employees who don't care about doing a quality job. I
can legally do roofing for family. I can also legally roof anything I want to as long as I am not being compensated. The contractors board has established these laws to 'protect the public'. What if some 'board' decided that bike racing was too dangerous and the public needed protection from possible injury, or sky diving or surfing or being a rodeo cowboy etc.etc. Should 'BOARDS' be granted so much protection power that you can not hire a person you know to do quality work at an affordable price, and thus be forced to pay top dollar for a poor quality job done by some contractors employees who probably cant even speak English? Do you know what I would tell some construction contractors board inspector who stuck his nose in the middle of me doing a roof job for a friend? "I am working for free because this person is my friend"

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Leland Jossy

Thanks to Steven Holland for the compliments. A note to Dan Watson about
your response: I am not trying to impersonate a contractor. As a human
being, I am legal in the state of Oregon to do such tasks as gutter
cleaning, pressure washing, moss removal, treating roofs, yard work,
landscaping, etc. but the contractor board sticks it's nose in when it comes
to construction work including roofing and roof repairs. I will tell you
right now that you are NOT guaranteed a quality job by hiring a contractor.
It CAN be a license to rip-off John Q Public. In my 22 years as a roofer, I
have seen it all and worked for companies that sold work at the MARKET PRICE
(which is much higher than I charge my friends) that is absolutely
atrocious. Part of the problem is that there is absolutely no inspection or
assurance of quality when it comes to the roofing trade. I am not bragging,
simply stating fact, that I do better work than ANY roofing contractor in
town. The main reason is that I care and I am the one on the job, not some
worker getting paid by the piece to slam on as much as they can, regardless
of the quality. I have a long list of top quality jobs that I have completed
and I challenge anyone to try to pick my work apart. Dan, you stated if
I was to do a roof job without a contractor license that myself and the
party that hired me would both be liable for a $1000 fine. Please call the
contractor board and find out for yourself that you are wrong. What I have
been told is that I would be liable for a fine of up to $5000 but NOT the
homeowner. Furthermore, I stated that if someone wanted the security (and
much higher price) of hiring a licensed contractor, then my boss would be
happy to be the middle man and someone could get my personal good quality
work at the same price as a contractor would charge for a hack job done by
employees who don't care about doing a quality job. I can legally do roofing
for family. I can also legally roof anything I want to as long as I am not
being compensated. The contractors board has established these laws to
'protect the public'. What if some 'board' decided that bike racing was too
dangerous and the public needed protection from possible injury, or sky
diving or surfing or being a rodeo cowboy etc.etc. Should 'BOARDS' be
granted so much protection power that you can not hire a person you know to
do quality work at an affordable price, and thus be forced to pay top dollar
for a poor quality job done by some contractors employees who probably cant
even speak English? Do you know what I would tell some construction
contractors board inspector who stuck his nose in the middle of me doing a
roof job for a friend? "I am working for free because this person is my
friend"