b hamon

I won't repeat all the arguments pro and con already made here.

However, I will say that on a wall in my house there is a framed 8 x 10 photo of me completing my first season of short-track xc racing last August. I am red-faced, sweating profusely and have my mouth formed into a perfect O of surprise as I crest the last whoopdee in a series of four, and discover to my abject horror that the drop-off at the end of all those whoopdees is MUCH steeper than I thought it would be.

That was the moment the professional photographer caught when he snapped the shutter at exactly the right second.

When my partner and I found that photo at his web site a few days after my race, my partner immediately turned to me said, "Go ahead and buy a copy. Buy two. Buy five and we'll send them to family and friends. You're a rock star and it's worth the money to save this moment."

A couple of weeks later, the photo arrived, and my [nonracing, fair-weather cyclist] sweetie put it in a frame to hang on the wall.
"When you get discouraged next season," she said, "just look at the picture and remember that you're a rock star. And that, more importantly, you're MY rock star."

And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is why high-quality, professional event photography is worth every penny.
Happy riding.

Beth Hamon

http://bikelovejones.livejournal.com

http://veloquent.blogspot.com

jboquiren@comcast.net

Photographers are creative types. It takes skill, knowledge, craft and artistry to frame a good photograph of YOU dear racer.
Photographers charge what they feel their work is worth. One should not judge their prices by some sort of economic metric although some photographers do take that into account when setting up their prices.

Joseph 'will never be a photographer' Boquiren

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Cipale"
To: "shane young"
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:17:13 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are event photos so expensive ?

I have purchased a few pictures from Shane, Bill and a few of the other photogs who are gracious enough to travel out to an event and take pictures.
Photography has never been as simple as Kodak said in their advertising (Point and shoot). Many of the people who come out have been doing this for years and have a great deal of money invested in equipment, time, travel, etc.

All of the photos I have purchased are quite good and are very reasonably priced. If you want to get a professional (say Graham Watson) to come out and photograph any of our races - good luck with that. Be prepared to pay a hell of a lot more.

These people need our support and appreciation for making the attempt to get our mug in print. Bottom line is: If the cost is too much at the time, then dont buy. This is not rocket science. The photographers are providing a service. It is up to you to take advantage of it.

Joe

shane.young wrote:

>
>
> I have tried several ways to craft a letter to explain how I have come to m=
> y prices. =C2=A0 All I can say is that they are what they are and I am alwa=
> ys evaluating my business model. =C2=A0 When I get sponsored, I offer mediu=
> m resolution images for free to people. =C2=A0 When I don=E2=80=99t, I eith=
> er don=E2=80=99t shoot or I have to make up my cost. =C2=A0 Below is a list=
> of the cost of event photography and by no means do I make enough to pay f=
> or it all. =C2=A0=20
>
> Tangible cost=20
>
> Per event: Gas, Food, Time (scouting out location, two photographers taking=
> photos, processing photos), Lodging, finishing touches on purchased photos=
> .=20
>
> Annual: Equipment (Camera bodies, lens, lighting, misc equipment, computer,=
> and software) cost (average $2000), business insurance, websites, marketin=
> g, car payments (in Portland I could live without a car), car insurance, ca=
> r maintenance and service providers. =C2=A0=20
>
>
>
> =C2=A0=20
>
> Intangible cost=20
>
> Per event: Time (looking for sponsors, blogging, promoting), experience, ev=
> ent commitments, and customer service.=20
>
> Annual: Promoting the business, learning more about photography.=20
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: "Marc Fortier" =20
> To: obra@list.obra.org=20
> Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 12:52:51 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific=20
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Why are event photos so expensive ?=20
>
>
> OK I will start by saying I'm ignorant of the whole event photography busin=
> ess model, but from a consumer standpoint, I don't see why a digital photo =
> costs so much.=C2=A0 For example, to get a full resolution digital copy of =
> the photo of myself from the Echo race will set me back $40 (for a photo th=
> at's not even exposed very well - although I will mention that many of the =
> photos from the race look spectacular).=C2=A0 Now if these cost me say $5 a=
> piece, I probably would have spent hundreds of dollars in the last few year=
> s, but as it is I've spent about zero dollars.=C2=A0 Couldn't there be a ch=
> eaper purchase option for downloading hi-res digital photos 'for personal u=
> se only' (no reselling, etc) ?=20
>
> I always feel bad I'm not funneling $$ towards these photographers who spen=
> d their time=C2=A0running around the course taking cool shots of everybody,=
> but I really can't justify the expense at the current rates.=C2=A0=20
> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list obra@list=
> .obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe: obra-unsu=
> bscribe@list.obra.org=

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Joe Cipale

I have purchased a few pictures from Shane, Bill and a few of the other photogs who are gracious enough to travel out to an event and take pictures.
Photography has never been as simple as Kodak said in their advertising (Point and shoot). Many of the people who come out have been doing this for years and have a great deal of money invested in equipment, time, travel, etc.

All of the photos I have purchased are quite good and are very reasonably priced. If you want to get a professional (say Graham Watson) to come out and photograph any of our races - good luck with that. Be prepared to pay a hell of a lot more.

These people need our support and appreciation for making the attempt to get our mug in print. Bottom line is: If the cost is too much at the time, then dont buy. This is not rocket science. The photographers are providing a service. It is up to you to take advantage of it.

Joe

shane.young wrote:

>
>
> I have tried several ways to craft a letter to explain how I have come to m=
> y prices. =C2=A0 All I can say is that they are what they are and I am alwa=
> ys evaluating my business model. =C2=A0 When I get sponsored, I offer mediu=
> m resolution images for free to people. =C2=A0 When I don=E2=80=99t, I eith=
> er don=E2=80=99t shoot or I have to make up my cost. =C2=A0 Below is a list=
> of the cost of event photography and by no means do I make enough to pay f=
> or it all. =C2=A0=20
>
> Tangible cost=20
>
> Per event: Gas, Food, Time (scouting out location, two photographers taking=
> photos, processing photos), Lodging, finishing touches on purchased photos=
> .=20
>
> Annual: Equipment (Camera bodies, lens, lighting, misc equipment, computer,=
> and software) cost (average $2000), business insurance, websites, marketin=
> g, car payments (in Portland I could live without a car), car insurance, ca=
> r maintenance and service providers. =C2=A0=20
>
>
>
> =C2=A0=20
>
> Intangible cost=20
>
> Per event: Time (looking for sponsors, blogging, promoting), experience, ev=
> ent commitments, and customer service.=20
>
> Annual: Promoting the business, learning more about photography.=20
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: "Marc Fortier" =20
> To: obra@list.obra.org=20
> Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 12:52:51 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific=20
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Why are event photos so expensive ?=20
>
>
> OK I will start by saying I'm ignorant of the whole event photography busin=
> ess model, but from a consumer standpoint, I don't see why a digital photo =
> costs so much.=C2=A0 For example, to get a full resolution digital copy of =
> the photo of myself from the Echo race will set me back $40 (for a photo th=
> at's not even exposed very well - although I will mention that many of the =
> photos from the race look spectacular).=C2=A0 Now if these cost me say $5 a=
> piece, I probably would have spent hundreds of dollars in the last few year=
> s, but as it is I've spent about zero dollars.=C2=A0 Couldn't there be a ch=
> eaper purchase option for downloading hi-res digital photos 'for personal u=
> se only' (no reselling, etc) ?=20
>
> I always feel bad I'm not funneling $$ towards these photographers who spen=
> d their time=C2=A0running around the course taking cool shots of everybody,=
> but I really can't justify the expense at the current rates.=C2=A0=20
> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list obra@list=
> .obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe: obra-unsu=
> bscribe@list.obra.org=

shane.young@comcast.net

I have tried several ways to craft a letter to explain how I have come to my prices.   All I can say is that they are what they are and I am always evaluating my business model.   When I get sponsored, I offer medium resolution images for free to people.   When I don’t, I either don’t shoot or I have to make up my cost.   Below is a list of the cost of event photography and by no means do I make enough to pay for it all.  

Tangible cost

Per event: Gas, Food, Time (scouting out location, two photographers taking photos, processing photos), Lodging, finishing touches on purchased photos.

Annual: Equipment (Camera bodies, lens, lighting, misc equipment, computer, and software) cost (average $2000), business insurance, websites, marketing, car payments (in Portland I could live without a car), car insurance, car maintenance and service providers.  

Intangible cost

Per event: Time (looking for sponsors, blogging, promoting), experience, event commitments, and customer service.

Annual: Promoting the business, learning more about photography.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Fortier"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 12:52:51 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Why are event photos so expensive ?

OK I will start by saying I'm ignorant of the whole event photography business model, but from a consumer standpoint, I don't see why a digital photo costs so much.  For example, to get a full resolution digital copy of the photo of myself from the Echo race will set me back $40 (for a photo that's not even exposed very well - although I will mention that many of the photos from the race look spectacular).  Now if these cost me say $5 apiece, I probably would have spent hundreds of dollars in the last few years, but as it is I've spent about zero dollars.  Couldn't there be a cheaper purchase option for downloading hi-res digital photos 'for personal use only' (no reselling, etc) ?

I always feel bad I'm not funneling $$ towards these photographers who spend their time running around the course taking cool shots of everybody, but I really can't justify the expense at the current rates. 
_______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Ben Fischler

It's called skill. "Can't you just..." insert whatever here. Make my website, take great pictures of my event, fix my whatever.

Everyone always forgets that it takes X amount of time to get any good at something, acquire the gear etc.

It's expensive because you're paying for the time, effort and money required to become any good at anything...

[ ben.fischler@gmail.com ]

On Mar 12, 2010, at 12:49 PM, Raedeke, John wrote:

> For the record I have done a lot of professional photography over the course of 25 years. This is always a question that comes up from clients, or prospective clients. Why is it so expensive?

Raedeke, John

For the record I have done a lot of professional photography over the course of 25 years. This is always a question that comes up from clients, or prospective clients. Why is it so expensive? Can't you just take a couple photos at my wedding and I will pay for the film and processing, it's a small wedding. Sure you could get the average Joe out there and have him take a photo for you. What you don't know is what you will get as a result for an image.
These photographers you see at the races are not racking in bucks by just standing there with a camera taking snapshots. They are highly skilled professionals that have had to learn a lot of very technical skills to get those images you see. Not every image will be perfect, that is just the nature of the business.
What they carry around for equipment is very expensive too. Figure two or three of your fancy $3-6000 bikes hanging around their neck and in bags. And in the instance for Mudslinger, a Cross race, or dusty Bend race they cannot simply hose off the camera give it a good lube and be ready for the next ride. They have to be much more careful than that.
They need plenty of experience to actually operate these cameras correctly in the environment the cyclists are in. Often they hike quite some distance with load of gear to set up well before racers will get there to test shots and get exposures correct.
Then you have 1000's of images you have to sift through and make available for people to buy.

I don't want to sound like a rant but they work hard for what they get and deserve a big thanks every time you see them at the races. And every once in a while just don't buy a few Mochas from Starbucks and buy a photo from a local photographer.

john

This e-mail may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. This e-mail was sent in good faith to the address you provided to Rogue Community College. We trust that you have password-protected access to this e-mail account and that any transmitted confidential information is secure. If you are not the named addressee, you should not disseminate, distribute, or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail message by mistake, and then delete this e-mail and any attachments from your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing, or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Marc Fortier
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 12:53 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Why are event photos so expensive ?

OK I will start by saying I'm ignorant of the whole event photography business model, but from a consumer standpoint, I don't see why a digital photo costs so much. For example, to get a full resolution digital copy of the photo of myself from the Echo race will set me back $40 (for a photo that's not even exposed very well - although I will mention that many of the photos from the race look spectacular). Now if these cost me say $5 apiece, I probably would have spent hundreds of dollars in the last few years, but as it is I've spent about zero dollars. Couldn't there be a cheaper purchase option for downloading hi-res digital photos 'for personal use only' (no reselling, etc) ?

I always feel bad I'm not funneling $$ towards these photographers who spend their time running around the course taking cool shots of everybody, but I really can't justify the expense at the current rates.

Marc Fortier

All good points. I just think there's a missed opportunity here : if I want
to spend money on pix, and photographers want to sell more of their product,
there should be a way to grease the wheels to make this happen. Maybe I'm
an exception, but here's a business model that would work for me :

Event photographers offer medium resolution shots for cheap - say $5 a pop
for digital downloads. At this price I probably buy a few pix every race I
enter - no doubt others will do the same. I think of these as 'loss
leaders' that open the door to higher priced specialty items. I may print
out a few of these, post some to a website, etc. Now and then I see an
exceptional shot, and then I spring for the higher priced product from the
photographer, such as larger poster prints, framed prints, t-shirts,
silkscreened items, etc.

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 4:55 PM, Luciano bailey wrote:

> I think the potential use reuse is the issue if your looking for a
> cheaper model have a friend post up and shoot some shots of you. I myself
> prefer to sell a disc usually at $100 includes multiple pics kind of a racer
> catalog. Winning races also will get you better pics. 2 cents
>
> > Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 13:28:13 -0800
> > From: shane@wickedar.com
> > To: frark4ta@gmail.com
> > CC: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are event photos so expensive ?
> >
> >
> > Marc,
> >
> > It's sort of a "chicken and egg" problem. Event photographers often
> > don't get paid for their work. Sometimes the event producer will pay a
> > small amount - to be able to use (some of) the photographers work.
> > Other times, the agreement is just to allow the photographer access to
> > take shots. Then, the photographer can sell them for how ever much they
> > want.
> >
> > The problem is - very few participants are willing to pay for images
> > from the photographer - so the photographer often feels they have to
> > charge a reasonably higher rate to be able to make a return on their
> > time and equipment investment.
> >
> > The chicken and egg problem ... if they don't charge much - they don't
> > make much money. But by not charging much; will they get more volume in
> > sales? The answer has typically been a resounding "NO". So they charge
> > more. But by charging more; are they limiting volume of sales?
> > Probably. Where's the line they draw in the sales price of the digital
> > image?
> >
> > One last issue they face - digital photographs are easily used/reused in
> > lots of places and various instances that borders on commercial use -
> > shouldn't they be paid fairly for their work if it's used in a
> > commercial related capacity? For example - a lot of online blogs and
> > ezines that publish race reports and include shots from athlete provided
> > phots (which originally might have come from the professional
> > photographer)...
> >
> > At least ... this has been my experience as an event producer, working
> > with event photographers.
> >
> > v/r
> > Shane
> >
> >
> > Marc Fortier wrote:
> > > OK I will start by saying I'm ignorant of the whole event photography
> > > business model, but from a consumer standpoint, I don't see why a
> > > digital photo costs so much. For example, to get a full resolution
> > > digital copy of the photo of myself from the Echo race will set me
> > > back $40 (for a photo that's not even exposed very well - although I
> > > will mention that many of the photos from the race look spectacular).
> > > Now if these cost me say $5 apiece, I probably would have spent
> > > hundreds of dollars in the last few years, but as it is I've spent
> > > about zero dollars. Couldn't there be a cheaper purchase option for
> > > downloading hi-res digital photos 'for personal use only' (no
> > > reselling, etc) ?
> > >
> > > I always feel bad I'm not funneling $$ towards these photographers who
> > > spend their time running around the course taking cool shots of
> > > everybody, but I really can't justify the expense at the current rates.
>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Wicked Race Director
> > Wicked Adventure Racing, LLC
> > http://www.WickedAR.com/
> >
> >
> > "Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature,
> > nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding
> > danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life
> > is either a daring adventure or nothing." ** Helen Keller **
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ------------------------------
> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up
> now.
>

dacrizzow

ya know as soon as this thread goes up there will be tons of people telling us all to "stop whining". i don't know the photog's point of veiw but if their so worried about their photo being reused, c'mon! it's a bunch of 30-40 year old guys riding bikes on the weekend. how much cash is anyone being swindled from "blog use" or whatever? i've seen tons of pics i would've loved to purchase but just couldn't justify. the only pic i've bought was one of my wife at a race that i had put on a coffee mug. think of it this way, a couple of pics=a rapha jersey.

Luciano bailey

I think the potential use reuse is the issue if your looking for a cheaper model have a friend post up and shoot some shots of you. I myself prefer to sell a disc usually at $100 includes multiple pics kind of a racer catalog. Winning races also will get you better pics. 2 cents

> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 13:28:13 -0800
> From: shane@wickedar.com
> To: frark4ta@gmail.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are event photos so expensive ?
>
>
> Marc,
>
> It's sort of a "chicken and egg" problem. Event photographers often
> don't get paid for their work. Sometimes the event producer will pay a
> small amount - to be able to use (some of) the photographers work.
> Other times, the agreement is just to allow the photographer access to
> take shots. Then, the photographer can sell them for how ever much they
> want.
>
> The problem is - very few participants are willing to pay for images
> from the photographer - so the photographer often feels they have to
> charge a reasonably higher rate to be able to make a return on their
> time and equipment investment.
>
> The chicken and egg problem ... if they don't charge much - they don't
> make much money. But by not charging much; will they get more volume in
> sales? The answer has typically been a resounding "NO". So they charge
> more. But by charging more; are they limiting volume of sales?
> Probably. Where's the line they draw in the sales price of the digital
> image?
>
> One last issue they face - digital photographs are easily used/reused in
> lots of places and various instances that borders on commercial use -
> shouldn't they be paid fairly for their work if it's used in a
> commercial related capacity? For example - a lot of online blogs and
> ezines that publish race reports and include shots from athlete provided
> phots (which originally might have come from the professional
> photographer)...
>
> At least ... this has been my experience as an event producer, working
> with event photographers.
>
> v/r
> Shane
>
>
> Marc Fortier wrote:
> > OK I will start by saying I'm ignorant of the whole event photography
> > business model, but from a consumer standpoint, I don't see why a
> > digital photo costs so much. For example, to get a full resolution
> > digital copy of the photo of myself from the Echo race will set me
> > back $40 (for a photo that's not even exposed very well - although I
> > will mention that many of the photos from the race look spectacular).
> > Now if these cost me say $5 apiece, I probably would have spent
> > hundreds of dollars in the last few years, but as it is I've spent
> > about zero dollars. Couldn't there be a cheaper purchase option for
> > downloading hi-res digital photos 'for personal use only' (no
> > reselling, etc) ?
> >
> > I always feel bad I'm not funneling $$ towards these photographers who
> > spend their time running around the course taking cool shots of
> > everybody, but I really can't justify the expense at the current rates.
>
>
> --
> Wicked Race Director
> Wicked Adventure Racing, LLC
> http://www.WickedAR.com/
>
>
> "Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature,
> nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding
> danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life
> is either a daring adventure or nothing." ** Helen Keller **
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
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Mike Murray

Like all other things it has to do with market value; how many people want to buy, how many people want to sell, what their costs are, etc. You contribute to the process by deciding if you want to buy. If you think that the price is too high then don't buy.
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Fortier
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 12:52:51
To:
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Why are event photos so expensive ?

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Steve Brown

It is probably way too expensive but it is a nice service. And since
I don't see many people rushing out to double cover events and
offering the same thing at 50% less, my guess is these folks are not
getting Wall Street rich doing this. And if it the race you really
need and want the photo and they are not there, then the price is
very attractive.
On Mar 9, 2010, at 2:24 PM, eric aldinger wrote:

> Think of yourself as art. The photo represents a classic moment in
> your creative existence, right before your body starts to wither
> and decay. Isn't immortizing your heroic (but ultimately effemral)
> athletic efforts worth every penny. Alternately do what a guy was
> doing during one of my races. Ride ahead of the pack. Take pictures
> of yourself in the lead, race ahead some more, repeat. I hated that
> guy all day long.
>
> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Shane Y. Gibson
> wrote:
>
> Marc,
>
> It's sort of a "chicken and egg" problem. Event photographers often
> don't get paid for their work. Sometimes the event producer will
> pay a
> small amount - to be able to use (some of) the photographers work.
> Other times, the agreement is just to allow the photographer access to
> take shots. Then, the photographer can sell them for how ever much
> they
> want.
>
> The problem is - very few participants are willing to pay for images
> from the photographer - so the photographer often feels they have to
> charge a reasonably higher rate to be able to make a return on their
> time and equipment investment.
>
> The chicken and egg problem ... if they don't charge much - they don't
> make much money. But by not charging much; will they get more
> volume in
> sales? The answer has typically been a resounding "NO". So they
> charge
> more. But by charging more; are they limiting volume of sales?
> Probably. Where's the line they draw in the sales price of the
> digital
> image?
>
> One last issue they face - digital photographs are easily used/
> reused in
> lots of places and various instances that borders on commercial use -
> shouldn't they be paid fairly for their work if it's used in a
> commercial related capacity? For example - a lot of online blogs and
> ezines that publish race reports and include shots from athlete
> provided
> phots (which originally might have come from the professional
> photographer)...
>
> At least ... this has been my experience as an event producer, working
> with event photographers.
>
> v/r
> Shane
>
>
> Marc Fortier wrote:
> > OK I will start by saying I'm ignorant of the whole event
> photography
> > business model, but from a consumer standpoint, I don't see why a
> > digital photo costs so much. For example, to get a full resolution
> > digital copy of the photo of myself from the Echo race will set me
> > back $40 (for a photo that's not even exposed very well - although I
> > will mention that many of the photos from the race look
> spectacular).
> > Now if these cost me say $5 apiece, I probably would have spent
> > hundreds of dollars in the last few years, but as it is I've spent
> > about zero dollars. Couldn't there be a cheaper purchase option for
> > downloading hi-res digital photos 'for personal use only' (no
> > reselling, etc) ?
> >
> > I always feel bad I'm not funneling $$ towards these
> photographers who
> > spend their time running around the course taking cool shots of
> > everybody, but I really can't justify the expense at the current
> rates.
>
>
> --
> Wicked Race Director
> Wicked Adventure Racing, LLC
> http://www.WickedAR.com/
>
>
> "Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature,
> nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding
> danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life
> is either a daring adventure or nothing." ** Helen Keller **
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> --
> Eric Aldinger
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
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eric aldinger

Think of yourself as art. The photo represents a classic moment in your
creative existence, right before your body starts to wither and decay. Isn't
immortizing your heroic (but ultimately effemral) athletic efforts worth
every penny. Alternately do what a guy was doing during one of my races.
Ride ahead of the pack. Take pictures of yourself in the lead, race ahead
some more, repeat. I hated that guy all day long.

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Shane Y. Gibson wrote:

>
> Marc,
>
> It's sort of a "chicken and egg" problem. Event photographers often
> don't get paid for their work. Sometimes the event producer will pay a
> small amount - to be able to use (some of) the photographers work.
> Other times, the agreement is just to allow the photographer access to
> take shots. Then, the photographer can sell them for how ever much they
> want.
>
> The problem is - very few participants are willing to pay for images
> from the photographer - so the photographer often feels they have to
> charge a reasonably higher rate to be able to make a return on their
> time and equipment investment.
>
> The chicken and egg problem ... if they don't charge much - they don't
> make much money. But by not charging much; will they get more volume in
> sales? The answer has typically been a resounding "NO". So they charge
> more. But by charging more; are they limiting volume of sales?
> Probably. Where's the line they draw in the sales price of the digital
> image?
>
> One last issue they face - digital photographs are easily used/reused in
> lots of places and various instances that borders on commercial use -
> shouldn't they be paid fairly for their work if it's used in a
> commercial related capacity? For example - a lot of online blogs and
> ezines that publish race reports and include shots from athlete provided
> phots (which originally might have come from the professional
> photographer)...
>
> At least ... this has been my experience as an event producer, working
> with event photographers.
>
> v/r
> Shane
>
>
> Marc Fortier wrote:
> > OK I will start by saying I'm ignorant of the whole event photography
> > business model, but from a consumer standpoint, I don't see why a
> > digital photo costs so much. For example, to get a full resolution
> > digital copy of the photo of myself from the Echo race will set me
> > back $40 (for a photo that's not even exposed very well - although I
> > will mention that many of the photos from the race look spectacular).
> > Now if these cost me say $5 apiece, I probably would have spent
> > hundreds of dollars in the last few years, but as it is I've spent
> > about zero dollars. Couldn't there be a cheaper purchase option for
> > downloading hi-res digital photos 'for personal use only' (no
> > reselling, etc) ?
> >
> > I always feel bad I'm not funneling $$ towards these photographers who
> > spend their time running around the course taking cool shots of
> > everybody, but I really can't justify the expense at the current rates.
>
>
> --
> Wicked Race Director
> Wicked Adventure Racing, LLC
> http://www.WickedAR.com/
>
>
> "Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature,
> nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding
> danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life
> is either a daring adventure or nothing." ** Helen Keller **
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
Eric Aldinger

Shane Y. Gibson

Marc,

It's sort of a "chicken and egg" problem. Event photographers often
don't get paid for their work. Sometimes the event producer will pay a
small amount - to be able to use (some of) the photographers work.
Other times, the agreement is just to allow the photographer access to
take shots. Then, the photographer can sell them for how ever much they
want.

The problem is - very few participants are willing to pay for images
from the photographer - so the photographer often feels they have to
charge a reasonably higher rate to be able to make a return on their
time and equipment investment.

The chicken and egg problem ... if they don't charge much - they don't
make much money. But by not charging much; will they get more volume in
sales? The answer has typically been a resounding "NO". So they charge
more. But by charging more; are they limiting volume of sales?
Probably. Where's the line they draw in the sales price of the digital
image?

One last issue they face - digital photographs are easily used/reused in
lots of places and various instances that borders on commercial use -
shouldn't they be paid fairly for their work if it's used in a
commercial related capacity? For example - a lot of online blogs and
ezines that publish race reports and include shots from athlete provided
phots (which originally might have come from the professional
photographer)...

At least ... this has been my experience as an event producer, working
with event photographers.

v/r
Shane

Marc Fortier wrote:
> OK I will start by saying I'm ignorant of the whole event photography
> business model, but from a consumer standpoint, I don't see why a
> digital photo costs so much. For example, to get a full resolution
> digital copy of the photo of myself from the Echo race will set me
> back $40 (for a photo that's not even exposed very well - although I
> will mention that many of the photos from the race look spectacular).
> Now if these cost me say $5 apiece, I probably would have spent
> hundreds of dollars in the last few years, but as it is I've spent
> about zero dollars. Couldn't there be a cheaper purchase option for
> downloading hi-res digital photos 'for personal use only' (no
> reselling, etc) ?
>
> I always feel bad I'm not funneling $$ towards these photographers who
> spend their time running around the course taking cool shots of
> everybody, but I really can't justify the expense at the current rates.

--
Wicked Race Director
Wicked Adventure Racing, LLC
http://www.WickedAR.com/

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature,
nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding
danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life
is either a daring adventure or nothing." ** Helen Keller **

Marc Fortier

OK I will start by saying I'm ignorant of the whole event photography
business model, but from a consumer standpoint, I don't see why a digital
photo costs so much. For example, to get a full resolution digital copy of
the photo of myself from the Echo race will set me back $40 (for a photo
that's not even exposed very well - although I will mention that many of the
photos from the race look spectacular). Now if these cost me say $5 apiece,
I probably would have spent hundreds of dollars in the last few years, but
as it is I've spent about zero dollars. Couldn't there be a cheaper
purchase option for downloading hi-res digital photos 'for personal use
only' (no reselling, etc) ?

I always feel bad I'm not funneling $$ towards these photographers who spend
their time running around the course taking cool shots of everybody, but I
really can't justify the expense at the current rates.