Garcia

You can add Dan Carleson's efforts to the list of "resources and money into racing outside of the Portland area this year".  Today I saw him building shelving in the "truck to service the Eugene and southern Oregon areas".

Long live OBRA,

Garcia

"It's one of my mantras but it deserves being said again- what makes racing in OBRA so great?  It's the volunteers, it's the officials, it's the promoters, it's the racers- it's all of us as a combined whole.  We will always try our best to make racing better- but it takes teamwork and the knowledge that we always try to make the best decisions".
T. Kenji Sugahara

________________________________
From: T. Kenji Sugahara
To: Rick Johnson
Cc: OBRA remailer
Sent: Mon, March 29, 2010 6:42:39 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Champs - Where, when & why

Everyone's opinions is always valued.  However, as an organization, we
must make decisions based on what is reasonable given resources and
time.  To those who think that OBRA is a Portland-centric
organization, we have invested a significant amount of resources and
money into racing outside of the Portland area this year including:

$10,000 for a truck to service the Eugene and southern Oregon areas.
$3,500 for a new trailer for Bend
$9,000 in new signs for Bend and the Eugene truck
$800 in cameras for Bend and Medford
$2000 in other race related equipment for areas outside the Portland
service area
I'm also anticipating spending an additional $5,000 for race clocks to
be used throughout the state.
(we also bought a trailer for Medford recently)

We actively encourage travel throughout the state for races.  Oregon
Cup and the Cat 4 Women's Series have races throughout the state-
including Bend.  We're hoping to have regional HS MTB and CCX
competitions.

We are a community of racers with events that stretch from Yreka, CA
to Vancouver, WA to Baker City, OR.  Location doesn't matter- the
quality of the race does.  To create artificial barriers between "us"
and "them" is a disservice to our diverse racing community.  I
originally joined OBRA cause I loved bike racing.  I didn't care where
I raced- all that mattered to me was that I got to race- and race with
friends.  I remember driving down to Table Rock for the first time and
meeting Mike Ripley for the first time too.  Sure I sucked, but I
loved the race.  I make an effort to head out to Baker City to race at
Elkhorn- out to Astoria for the Cross Crusade- to Eugene for the
Celebration and I remember suffering up the hill at Geri's Estacada
Time Trials.  Even this year I'll be giving mountain biking a shot.
Not because I haven't wanted to- but I finally got a mountain bike.
Sure I love the competition but I also enjoy the company.

Lot's of people have many different opinions and we have many
opinionated people.  Does that make them wrong?  Absolutely not.  Just
remember that there is a dedicated crew behind the scenes making
racing happen in OBRA.  It's one of my mantras but it deserves being
said again- what makes racing in OBRA so great?  It's the volunteers,
it's the officials, it's the promoters, it's the racers- it's all of
us as a combined whole.  We will always try our best to make racing
better- but it takes teamwork and the knowledge that we always try to
make the best decisions.

k-
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johnfforbes@comcast.net

Hear, hear!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Schauer
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:43:03
To: Rick Johnson; mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: OBRA remailer
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Champs - Where, when & why

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Tim Schauer

I like the point mike makes here. If we all just replace "OBRA" with the word "We" this entire thread takes on a new light. OBRA is not some entity. OBRA is We. If We are unhappy with what We have come up with, then We should com e up with a better solution next year.
-Tim Schauer

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Rick Johnson
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 6:59 PM
To: mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: OBRA remailer
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Champs - Where, when & why

The point remains the same. And since you mention it I'm a member of a well managed local co-op too. It is operated with due consideration to the opinions of the membership, even to the point of having an annual survey specifically to gauge the opinions and overall satisfaction of the members. In my ten years with this co-op it has never been suggested that any individual member's opinion is valid only if they participate in the routine operations of the co-op.
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Mike Murray > wrote:
The flaw in this argument is that OBRA is not really a business in the sense of a entity that has employees that create products. It is really more of a collective or co-op. As such, if the members don't do something it won't get done. OBRA really has no product except for what is created by the membership.
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick C Johnson >
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:18:29
To: obra@list.obra.org>
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Champs - Where, when & why
In the course of this discussion I've heard repeatedly the opinion
expressed that unless one is willing to take on the role of promoter
said person has no grounds for complaint. I suggest that is not a
successful strategy to achieve member satisfaction nor build loyalty.
Say OBRA was a business and their slogan was "Until you build a better
product yourself you're stuck with ours - like it and don't complain!"
What would that communicate to the customers (new or prospective)? Does
that message help promote member satisfaction with the organization, or
diminish it?

In my view all arguments and opinions on this subject are diminished by
the inclusion of such sentiment.

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

"Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

T. Kenji Sugahara

Everyone's opinions is always valued. However, as an organization, we
must make decisions based on what is reasonable given resources and
time. To those who think that OBRA is a Portland-centric
organization, we have invested a significant amount of resources and
money into racing outside of the Portland area this year including:

$10,000 for a truck to service the Eugene and southern Oregon areas.
$3,500 for a new trailer for Bend
$9,000 in new signs for Bend and the Eugene truck
$800 in cameras for Bend and Medford
$2000 in other race related equipment for areas outside the Portland
service area
I'm also anticipating spending an additional $5,000 for race clocks to
be used throughout the state.
(we also bought a trailer for Medford recently)

We actively encourage travel throughout the state for races. Oregon
Cup and the Cat 4 Women's Series have races throughout the state-
including Bend. We're hoping to have regional HS MTB and CCX
competitions.

We are a community of racers with events that stretch from Yreka, CA
to Vancouver, WA to Baker City, OR. Location doesn't matter- the
quality of the race does. To create artificial barriers between "us"
and "them" is a disservice to our diverse racing community. I
originally joined OBRA cause I loved bike racing. I didn't care where
I raced- all that mattered to me was that I got to race- and race with
friends. I remember driving down to Table Rock for the first time and
meeting Mike Ripley for the first time too. Sure I sucked, but I
loved the race. I make an effort to head out to Baker City to race at
Elkhorn- out to Astoria for the Cross Crusade- to Eugene for the
Celebration and I remember suffering up the hill at Geri's Estacada
Time Trials. Even this year I'll be giving mountain biking a shot.
Not because I haven't wanted to- but I finally got a mountain bike.
Sure I love the competition but I also enjoy the company.

Lot's of people have many different opinions and we have many
opinionated people. Does that make them wrong? Absolutely not. Just
remember that there is a dedicated crew behind the scenes making
racing happen in OBRA. It's one of my mantras but it deserves being
said again- what makes racing in OBRA so great? It's the volunteers,
it's the officials, it's the promoters, it's the racers- it's all of
us as a combined whole. We will always try our best to make racing
better- but it takes teamwork and the knowledge that we always try to
make the best decisions.

k-

Rick Johnson

The point remains the same. And since you mention it I'm a member of a well
managed local co-op too. It is operated with due consideration to the
opinions of the membership, even to the point of having an annual survey
specifically to gauge the opinions and overall satisfaction of the members.
In my ten years with this co-op it has never been suggested that any
individual member's opinion is valid only if they participate in the routine
operations of the co-op.

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Mike Murray wrote:

> The flaw in this argument is that OBRA is not really a business in the
> sense of a entity that has employees that create products. It is really more
> of a collective or co-op. As such, if the members don't do something it
> won't get done. OBRA really has no product except for what is created by
> the membership.
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick C Johnson
> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:18:29
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Champs - Where, when & why
>
> In the course of this discussion I've heard repeatedly the opinion
> expressed that unless one is willing to take on the role of promoter
> said person has no grounds for complaint. I suggest that is not a
> successful strategy to achieve member satisfaction nor build loyalty.
> Say OBRA was a business and their slogan was "Until you build a better
> product yourself you're stuck with ours - like it and don't complain!"
> What would that communicate to the customers (new or prospective)? Does
> that message help promote member satisfaction with the organization, or
> diminish it?
>
> In my view all arguments and opinions on this subject are diminished by
> the inclusion of such sentiment.
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend, Oregon
>
> "Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it" - George
> Santayana
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Mike Murray

The flaw in this argument is that OBRA is not really a business in the sense of a entity that has employees that create products. It is really more of a collective or co-op. As such, if the members don't do something it won't get done. OBRA really has no product except for what is created by the membership.
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick C Johnson
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:18:29
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Champs - Where, when & why

In the course of this discussion I've heard repeatedly the opinion
expressed that unless one is willing to take on the role of promoter
said person has no grounds for complaint. I suggest that is not a
successful strategy to achieve member satisfaction nor build loyalty.
Say OBRA was a business and their slogan was "Until you build a better
product yourself you're stuck with ours - like it and don't complain!"
What would that communicate to the customers (new or prospective)? Does
that message help promote member satisfaction with the organization, or
diminish it?

In my view all arguments and opinions on this subject are diminished by
the inclusion of such sentiment.

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

"Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana

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OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Jeff Edes

I don't think that anyone is saying you can't complain about it ...I think they are saying its not going to do any good- at least not this year. Maybe next year OBRA will have several venues to pick from but this year there is only one "product" on the market, and its Chad's... in Trout Lake.

joe cipale

Hugh Givens wrote:
> Bend would be a fairly central place for an OBRA RR championship. Tumalo circuit, perhaps? But logistically, it just doesn't make sense for Portland area promoter or team to put a race on there.
>
> That there are more teams/promoters in Portland is just a fact of life. It ain't easy, but PrestoVelo has been making an effort to put events on in the Salem area even though we are primarily a PDX team. We want there to be better access for racers outside of the Metro area.
>
> OBRA will always be dependent on LOCAL promoters to put on races. Want OBRA champs in your area? Step right up!
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
A few years back, the OBRA RR was held a little up the road in Madras at
the Gateway circuit. I can provide a course map on request.

Joe

Hugh Givens

Bend would be a fairly central place for an OBRA RR championship. Tumalo circuit, perhaps? But logistically, it just doesn't make sense for Portland area promoter or team to put a race on there.

That there are more teams/promoters in Portland is just a fact of life. It ain't easy, but PrestoVelo has been making an effort to put events on in the Salem area even though we are primarily a PDX team. We want there to be better access for racers outside of the Metro area.

OBRA will always be dependent on LOCAL promoters to put on races. Want OBRA champs in your area? Step right up!

Rick C Johnson

In the course of this discussion I've heard repeatedly the opinion
expressed that unless one is willing to take on the role of promoter
said person has no grounds for complaint. I suggest that is not a
successful strategy to achieve member satisfaction nor build loyalty.
Say OBRA was a business and their slogan was "Until you build a better
product yourself you're stuck with ours - like it and don't complain!"
What would that communicate to the customers (new or prospective)? Does
that message help promote member satisfaction with the organization, or
diminish it?

In my view all arguments and opinions on this subject are diminished by
the inclusion of such sentiment.

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

"Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana

Fischer, Jim E (Corvallis)

Hey folks,

I was out of communication with much of the OBRA e-mail last week, but wanted to provide a bit of background on the OBRA RR Champs evolution for 2010-2011.

1.) At the promoter meeting last year, a decision was reached to move the RR champs to August. I can't recall exactly why this was done and don't have my notes. Kenji or Candi may recall. It may have had something to do with other champs events being in August (TT, Crit, Track), so the more the merrier. It may also have been done to anchor a date that did not conflict with other road/stage events to enable racers and promoters to plan each year around the Champs if they chose to do so.

2.) Issues were raised about promoters being unwilling to add another event to their plate. Champs RR requires two days of racing, and includes many categories which often end up costing more (for officials) than most other road races. Costs are high. Chad addressed this by making the event two consecutive days to avoid paying twice for mileage to and from the event. Also, local businesses are likely to help him by offering discounts for lodging, etc. It's plausible that many folks will race both days and will stay nearby.

3.) Often, Champs events are simply existing events on the calendar repackaged to be called "Champs" for a few years (expanded categories, etc). There is no date or venue change, and the promoter does not risk losing an existing spot on the calendar by leaving a venue/date for a few years to put on a Champs event in August. By moving to August, many of the later season road events that might have been candidates for this "repackaging" were out of the running unless they wanted to take on another event in August, or move theirs (and risk losing their existing spot on the calendar). For example, Kings Valley, Silverton and Table Rock all could have been candidates...but are not in August.

4.) The location, as Kenji as indicated, was picked by Chad Sperry (thanks Chad for being willing to take on this project!!). I'm grateful to have the event put on by such a capable guy. I like new locations and it sounds like from Zimbelman and the gang that it's spectacular. I understand this is also a venue Chad is using for some other event earlier in the season, so he's subscribing to the "repackaging" idea to ease his insane workload.

Bottom line - Put up or shut up. "OBRA" (referred to by many in a sense of "they", "them", etc.) did not pick this location. One very busy, very dedicated guy raised his hand to offer, and was therefore the default to host. It certainly helps that he is a highly regarded and capable promoter. The OBRA Board/Executive director could have declined Chad's offer. There would have been no OBRA RR champs, or it would have been thrown together last minute. Would that have been better?

If you want a champs near you, find a course and work with Kenji to make it happen for 2012. If you are a new promoter, this gives you and your organization ample time to get experience working events, getting local officials trained (to save you money), and to work out details with local businesses to get financial support to make it a great event.

Hopefully, this gives the process and the decision some context. Please feel free to contact me directly (off list).

Regards,

Jim Fischer