Don Vizzini
From: donvizzini@hotmail.com
To: kenji@obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] OBRA RR, S.O. gets the short end again
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:24:25 -0700
Thanks Ken,
I started off my thread not in defence of the S.O. complaint. but as I stated to just get clarity on how all this works. You, Mike and others have helped Im sure many of us in understanding this topic. Im sure the corse is amazing and who would not be apprecitive to Chad for picking up the ball that seemd droped, and wether or not he was the only one he still won the bid. So, chad- Personally, "Im grateful!" I and my sons winning state RR championships would not have been done with out someone to put the event on. So Steve, I don't think the fact that you lived, or still do in Wa. was the reason for you defense of Chad. but I think you may have got down the wrong path. Kinda like jumping the wrong wheel only to find out at the line.
Thanks to all who promote Oregon racing. Speaking for most of S.O. "I'm certain".
Cheers!
Don. V
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:39:32 -0700
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA RR, S.O. gets the short end again
From: kenji@obra.org
To: donvizzini@hotmail.com
CC: durkintj@gmail.com; riznob@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Mike is correct as far as the rules are concerned- but I delegate this duty if there is more than 1 application.
It goes to three judge panel consisting of:
1 experienced official
1 director
1 promoter
I facilitate- and leave the choice up to the three.
Criteria include:
Community support
Media exposure
Geographic location
Venue
Promoting history
k-
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 10:52 PM, Don Vizzini wrote:
I feel after the last email directly from mike I pretty clear on how all this work. I feel many of the comment were helpful and there again many just miss the point. It does boil down to us 'WE' all really make up the OBRA network. So I understand that its up to riders to encourage the promoters about hosting events in their regions and the promoters to decide if its worthy to bid and or to even consider if its worthy to host the event. but the final part is what is made clear to me by Mike M. and it may be helpful to many of you to be clear on this matter so I copied his email to me. Look its all really simple. I think were the misunderstanding is in this matter is the fact is the bid was won by default. Only one person bid and for those of us who don't like the idea of the travel time we have only us to blame. Maybe its a good thing this all came to light hopefully it will encourage more involvement and participation by myself and others in hopes to see races held in our areas.
Good luck to all in getting races closer to home...Hope the information shared was helpful
Donnie V.
From:
Mike Murray (mike.murray@obra.org)
Sent:
Mon 3/29/10 7:56 PM
To:
Don Vizzini (donvizzini@hotmail.com)
Feel free to post to the list serve.
The answer to your question is in the OBRA administrative rules which indicate that the championships are held at the direction of the ED, i.e. Kenji. The BOD could direct and/over ride him.
The point many people in this discussion miss is that OBRA's job is to make putting on bike races easier. We do this by providing structure, equipment, training officials, decreasing cost, etc. Basically our major customers are potential race organizers. We have been very successful at this so as a result more people put on more races. In other parts of the country a different tack has been taken and there is a less global view. In those locations the same organizational energy has been put towards running races directly. This leads to some good races but fewer of them. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
From: donvizzini@hotmail.com
To: mike.murray@obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Champs - Where, when & why
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 19:29:56 -0700
So I think after 12 years of racing OBRA I'm a little more clear.
I do and have understood OBRA has no product, now if it is from what we (members have created) then it would seem its up to us (members) to encourage organizers in our areas to not only bid for championship events but our seasonal races also. I do see where there would be a little hesitation as a promoter is reliant on a good showing of entrants to at least break even, but that's life!
One example would be the Mayors Cup held in Medford Or. An amazing course and beautiful venue but, even with a $10,000 purse the event couldn't even give it all away do to lack of showings. Now I can see where as a championship event is different, due to the fact- Its the State championships and riders will come and race regardless (even while whining all the way to the event).
So back to Members, Promoters, OBRA and where a race event is decided to be held.
First- The members encourage the promoters to host an event in there area.
Second- They (the promoter) bids to host the event.
Then who decides who gets the bid if there are several bids? In this case (this years RR)its clear it was by default due to the fact no one else bid. but what if several do? Then how is it decided. *Is this where OBRA has the voice?
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> From: mike.murray@obra.org
> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 23:39:38 +0000
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Champs - Where, when & why
>
> The flaw in this argument is that OBRA is not really a business in the sense of a entity that has employees that create products. It is really more of a collective or co-op. As such, if the members don't do something it won't get done. OBRA really has no product except for what is created by the membership.
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:52:45 -0800
> From: durkintj@gmail.com
> To: riznob@gmail.com
> CC: donvizzini@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA RR, S.O. gets the short end again
>
> Check out the Northern California Nevada Hill Climb Championship venues.
> This is repeating from 2009. One could say the location is remote and
> the courses are true climbers courses, very challenging. Friends of mine
> traveled from Seattle in 09! Perhaps an event in one location could
> bring many challengers.
> http://www.everestchallenge.com/page1.ihtml?id=19&parent_id=0
>
>
> Robert Anderson wrote:
> > As a race promoter, it's important to plan an event to attract as many
> > riders as possible. The location of a race is a big factor for many
> > riders. Could you hold a hill climb the south east corner of OR?
> > Probably. Would anyone attend? Maybe. Would more people attend if it
> > were located somewhere more accessible? Yes.
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Don Vizzini > > wrote:
> >
> > Well, It seems we all could agree- the further riders have to
> > travel the more they (now us in 'S.O.') disagree.
> > I've discovered at the magic age of 51 I'm not the road traveler I
> > once was. I'm not looking forward to a 6:44 drive to a race, but
> > I do love to race my bike...So if I make the journey-you can beat
> > I'm gonna fight all day 'come race day' to at least bring home
> > some hardware.
> > A couple things over the several years of racing I have made
> > notice of, and may be suggestive?
> > But first let me say; I am not a promoter,nor have I ever felt I
> > had the time to do so...So, Thanks! to all those and OBRA for
> > doing something I am unwilling, that brings much joy to my life.
> > I am very grateful... Oregon Racing Rocks!
> > Some years (well lets say most), between the state TT, RR,
> > Crit and Hill Climb championships most have always been held in
> > the northern part of the state (not sure about other
> > states?)...Stands to reason since most of the racers live north.
> > Now some of the events need a suitable place for its
> > discipline like- the hill climb, which has been held at Mt.
> > Ashland (a true hill climbers course) and should be held there
> > every year (in my one sided opinion). My thought has always been-
> > why cant the events be more shared by the different regions of the
> > state?
> > Now I understand in part from what Mike is saying; its up to the
> > promoters to bid or apply, but it would stand to reason that there
> > is or should be some limitations ' a line drawen'. I don't know
> > if a state hill climb has been held at Mt. Shasta???? (obviously
> > not) but, you talk about a beautiful view of nature and a town
> > with lots of cool outdoor things to do- lakes, rivers, trails. and
> > so on. Most of all -its a climb that will prove the best climbers.
> > So if a promoter bids to have the state hill climb championship at
> > Mt. Shasta under the current OBRA guidelines it wouldn't be a
> > problem to host the event at Shasta, right? I mean it is Ca. but
> > Ca, Wa, what's the diff hey?
> > So, maybe a long winded way to get to the point but, one
> > questions still remains- why do we move these championship events
> > from place to place to begin with? and if the reason is for what
> > I think it is- then, why do we continue to host the state
> > crit most every year at the same location? maybe its because its
> > hard to find an area to keep open for 'all day racing'? I'm
> > really not sure about this one.
> > I think the state events do deserve some guidelines, and or just
> > maybe a some mutual understanding for those of us who have been
> > racing for so many years that are still in question.
> > This is not a complaint as to the location of the state RR, nor to
> > the promoters or OBRA organizers. I just feel this topic
> > deserves clarity and that in fairness; if someone got a wild Idea
> > to host a state hill climb "say in Ca." Would it win the bid? and
> > from what I understand-it shouldn't raise complaints. No I'm not
> > putting together a state hill climb in California. I would go
> > Colorado!
> >
> > Go Faster!
> > Donnie V.
> >
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > From: mike.murray@obra.org
> > > Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 02:31:13 +0000
> > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA RR, S.O. gets the short end again
> >
> > >
> > > As I recall the OBRA road race championship has been held in
> > southern Oregon several times. If you want it to happen there
> > again then make sure that someone bids to put it on there. Last
> > year no one did.
> > >
> > > Of course every time it has been held in southern Oregon there
> > has been whining from the larger population of riders up north. I
> > guess you can't really make people happy.
> > >
> > > Mike Murray
> > > ------Original Message------
> > > From: dave masessa
> > > Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > > To: OBRA remailer
> > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA RR, S.O. gets the short end again
> > > Sent: Mar 27, 2010 17:55
> > >
> > > Google Maps
> > > Medford, OR to Trout Lake, WA 6hrs 44 min
> > > Thanks OBRA
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
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> >
> >
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