speedometers, was westside

Karsten Hagen

2010-04-13

Hello.

Obvious Garmin plug here.....if you use an Edge computer and upload the ride
to Garmin Connect, it will show your speed as you are moving on a map, as
well as when and how long you stopped (or didn¹t stop).

Karsten Hagen

On 4/13/10 4:07 PM, "Mark J. Ginsberg" wrote:

>
> So, enough people wrote to me privately that I figured I'd write to all
> concerning my statement that speeding is not the same as not having a
> speedometer.
>
> first, for those who don't know, yes I am an attorney, and yes I do this stuff
> for a living, but no, this ain't legal advice. just my observations.
>
> In general there are 3 groups of "crimes", felonies (really bad), misdemeanors
> (not as bad), and violations (not too bad).
>
> for all violations intent/knowledge/mental state is not a factor, you either
> did the thing or did not, regardless of intent.
>
> so for traffic violations your intent or mental state is not a required
> element for conviction.
>
> so you can be speeding without knowing it, but you are still speeding. Your
> intent and/or your mental state while doing it are irrelevant to whether or
> not you were speeding.
>
> now I agree with one poster that bicycles are not required to have a
> speedometer, so if charged with the equipment violation of "no speedometer" I
> agree that the cyclist would most likely win in court.
>
> but if a LEO (that's geek lingo for Law Enforcement Officer) paces you, or
> uses radar and you have no proof you were NOT speeding, well you will probably
> lose the speeding ticket.
>
> Now I am aware of one ticket in NP where an OBRA member was able to use a
> power meter down load to show zero power twice at about the time of day the
> ticket was issued, and proved that those two zero readings were the two stop
> signs in NP. I think he still lost, but I don't recall.
>
> In general traffic court is designed to convict, so unless you've got great
> affirmative evidence that you didn't do "It" you will be convicted.
>
> please everyone, save the emails about burden of proof for TV court dramas or
> for when you go to law school, ok?
>
> so, yes if the cop says you were speeding and you say to the judge, but judge
> I don't have a speedometer, the judge would most likely convict you and say
> something like, "well, maybe now you'll either slow down or go buy a
> speedometer so I won't have to see you here again."
>
> Mark
>
> Mark J. Ginsberg
> Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
> Attorneys At Law
> 1216 SE Belmont St.
> Portland, OR 97214
> (503) 542-3000
> Fax (503) 233-6874
> markjginsberg@yahoo.com
> www.bikesafetylaw.com
>
>
>
>
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Mark J. Ginsberg

2010-04-13

So, enough people wrote to me privately that I figured I'd write to all concerning my statement that speeding is not the same as not having a speedometer.

first, for those who don't know, yes I am an attorney, and yes I do this stuff for a living, but no, this ain't legal advice. just my observations.

In general there are 3 groups of "crimes", felonies (really bad), misdemeanors (not as bad), and violations (not too bad).

for all violations intent/knowledge/mental state is not a factor, you either did the thing or did not, regardless of intent.

so for traffic violations your intent or mental state is not a required element for conviction.

so you can be speeding without knowing it, but you are still speeding. Your intent and/or your mental state while doing it are irrelevant to whether or not you were speeding.

now I agree with one poster that bicycles are not required to have a speedometer, so if charged with the equipment violation of "no speedometer" I agree that the cyclist would most likely win in court.

but if a LEO (that's geek lingo for Law Enforcement Officer) paces you, or uses radar and you have no proof you were NOT speeding, well you will probably lose the speeding ticket.

Now I am aware of one ticket in NP where an OBRA member was able to use a power meter down load to show zero power twice at about the time of day the ticket was issued, and proved that those two zero readings were the two stop signs in NP. I think he still lost, but I don't recall.

In general traffic court is designed to convict, so unless you've got great affirmative evidence that you didn't do "It" you will be convicted.

please everyone, save the emails about burden of proof for TV court dramas or for when you go to law school, ok?

so, yes if the cop says you were speeding and you say to the judge, but judge I don't have a speedometer, the judge would most likely convict you and say something like, "well, maybe now you'll either slow down or go buy a speedometer so I won't have to see you here again."

Mark

Mark J. Ginsberg
Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
Attorneys At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com