Re: [OBRA Chat] CAT 4/5 crashExactly, people need to learn to race a bike by doing group sessions of grass track etc,...and being aware and anticipating things during a race....and like Karsten says keeping each other up and not panicking is the key....One of the guys that races for me a few weeks ago at PIR actually had someone grab and rack the skin off his arm trying to stay up, it almost drug him down as well but he knew what to do when this happened and did not panic....The arm grabber did not fair so well...
Jeff
From: Karsten Hagen
To: remailer, OBRA
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] CAT 4/5 crash
We should all hold each others' booties up more often. This will keep our booties out of our chairs.
Karsten
On 6/29/10 10:51 AM, "Long, Steve" wrote:
Mike Adams actually held me up, as I was bobbling after rubbing a wheel, in a championship RR a couple of years ago. In that case, a bump prevented a crash. Thanks again Mike. J
I saw the same thing happen to Harry Phinney the following year. Somebody held his booty up.
I may have the years wrong but the event happened. J
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mark J. Ginsberg
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 10:47 AM
To: mike.murray@obra.org; remailer, OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] CAT 4/5 crash
I gotta go with Mike on this one.
being bumped into is a fact of racing, how the racer responds to it can lead a person down many different life paths.
yesterday on our noon training ride, a nice newer guy didn't understand the pace line rotation that was happening and bumped into me. we did not fall down. He was not an idiot. He did not intend to cause a crash.
We bumped bars. to me, and fortunately him, it was not a big deal, we both took the bump, he said sorry, I said no big deal and we moved on.
so will someone sprint poorly and not ride a line thatis best for YOU? yes. will there be crashes? yes.
but contact does not need to equal crashing.
Mark
Mark J. Ginsberg
Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
Attorneys At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com
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From: Mike Murray
To: "remailer, OBRA"
Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 10:35:06 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] CAT 4/5 crash
Idiocy is not a sign of intent, in fact it is probably just the opposite. It is also not something in short supply or likely to go away soon. My point is that you can't do anything about them while you can do something about your response to them. It is surely more productive to focus your attention there.
In the FWIW category, Kevin sent me a note saying he thought I was right. Of course that could be a response born of sympathy for my current situation. YMMV
------Original Message------
From: Stephen Fitzgerald
To: Murray, Mike
Cc: remailer, OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] CAT 4/5 crash
Sent: Jun 29, 2010 10:06
I have to disagree here a bit. I see single riders doing idiotic things
all the time. Random radical lane changes to get the desired line and
rampant sprinting with the head down are common occurrences out there at
PIR. The only person at fault in that situation is the careless rider
who is not respecting his fellow racers by exercising basic caution. It
is in fact quite often the fault of a single rider when a crash occurs.
Yes crashing is a fact of racing, but so is careless riding. Its okay to
call a spade a spade.
Telling Kevin that it was probably his fault and to in-effect "suck it
up" doesn't do justice to the fact that he was effectively rear-ended by
an overtaking rider who wasn't looking - at no fault of his own. Plenty
of people saw what happened. He didn't "have a fall", he got crashed out
by someone else.
Firing off a heated email won't make anything better for him, but the
guy just needed to vent a little.
On 6/29/2010 6:11 AM, Mike Murray wrote:
> It is a waste of time blaming others when you have a fall. First, although you may be entirely convinced that the other person was at fault, after many years of watching bike racers fall I can tell you it is rarely due to a single rider's error. No one really wants to fall themselves or to make someone else fall. Mostly these are mutual combatant deals. More importantly, there is nothing that you can do about other's behavior, just your own. It is far more productive to consider how you might avoid or respond to a rider bumping you or riding carelessly or awkwardly near you.
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
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