Joshua Hunt

Dear violent hipsters of Portland,
I'm sorry that you got picked in in High School. I'm sorry you couldn't
stand up for yourself then, and that you think taking it out on others in
adulthood is appropriate. That kind of behavior is somewhat understandable
in High School, but not understandable or acceptable as an adult.
It's going to be a lot cheaper to replace your NJS certified Kerin chain
& your 3 inch wide handlebars than it will be to replace your front teeth
when you test the wrong person with your misplaced machismo.
Finally, speaking of what is an appropriate and inappropriate response
to violence, or harassment, there is one thing that I find is always
acceptable. Before you do anything, stop and think about it. You'll never
regret it.

Joshua Hunt

That depends, when was OBRA chat founded?

On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 8:47 PM, toddistic wrote:

> When did OBRA Chat turn into the comments section of bikeportland.org?
>
> Todd
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 8:45 PM, Joshua Hunt wrote:
>
>> His argument was that they broke the law, therefore he should be able to
>> exact his own form of retribution, as he sees fit.. He broke the law as
>> well. In fact, he broke more laws than the instigators did. This is exactly
>> the kind of thinking that makes people in automobiles feel like they can run
>> a cyclist down for running a stop light, or swerving across three lanes of
>> traffic without warning. It's just moronic. Don't expect the cycling
>> community to support you simply because you're a cyclist. It doesn't mean
>> that you're right & people in cars are wrong.
>> Also, I have read through the posts and I can't find where anyone has said
>> anything about 'turning the other cheek.' Maybe just don't be a total
>> brainless psycho about it.
>> "There are a number of ways to handle each situation. Sometimes the last
>> resort is the only resort" does sound kind of cool, but it doesn't really
>> make much sense. It particularly doesn't make any sense in this situation.
>> He had many options, from what I can gather. He chose the path of breaking
>> the law, while at the same time endangering others. Any number of innocent
>> bystanders could have been harmed by his actions. What's heroic about that?
>> How about reporting the license plate to the authorities & filing a police
>> report? In Portland you can get the police to drag people into court with
>> you over such incidents. He could have also followed them until he saw a
>> police officer, and got the police involved immediately.
>> A person is not a 'wussie' (which is not an actual word, by the way) just
>> because they choose not to immediately resort to violence, or blindly
>> support those that do. You two are doing a splendid job of puffing your
>> chests on the internet. Couldn't you have got this childish machismo out of
>> your system in High School?
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 7:45 PM, dacrizzow wrote:
>>
>>> i used to be a messenger in atl. not a freindly city like pdx. had to
>>> handle things in an aggro manner. living here that doesn't happen so much.
>>> at times i feel like it but let it go. HOWEVER, i DO NOT believe in this
>>> whole turn the other cheek thing. there are a number of ways to handle each
>>> situation. sometimes the last resort is the only resort. kudos to those who
>>> put it on the line in the heat of the moment. there is nothing noble about
>>> being a coward. and even less noble in "scolding" these vigilantes/ heros.
>>> when someone crosses the line they should expect whatever they get. i gots
>>> no respect for the wussies who expect us all to cower. oh yeah, keep this
>>> public. DO NOT reply to me privatly
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>

Joshua Hunt

No, she didn't. She 'replied to all'. It sends a private email to you, and a
public email to the rest of us. Which is how I got it. Duh.

On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 8:46 PM, dacrizzow wrote:

> brooke, i don't suggest anything. re=read my post. everyone makes different
> desicions based on different situations. alot of us are just tired of
> hearing people say 'it makes all cyclists look bad'. personally i would
> rather look "bad" than afraid, harrassed, or dead. and BTW you still
> responded privately.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

toddistic

When did OBRA Chat turn into the comments section of bikeportland.org?

Todd

On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 8:45 PM, Joshua Hunt wrote:

> His argument was that they broke the law, therefore he should be able to
> exact his own form of retribution, as he sees fit.. He broke the law as
> well. In fact, he broke more laws than the instigators did. This is exactly
> the kind of thinking that makes people in automobiles feel like they can run
> a cyclist down for running a stop light, or swerving across three lanes of
> traffic without warning. It's just moronic. Don't expect the cycling
> community to support you simply because you're a cyclist. It doesn't mean
> that you're right & people in cars are wrong.
> Also, I have read through the posts and I can't find where anyone has said
> anything about 'turning the other cheek.' Maybe just don't be a total
> brainless psycho about it.
> "There are a number of ways to handle each situation. Sometimes the last
> resort is the only resort" does sound kind of cool, but it doesn't really
> make much sense. It particularly doesn't make any sense in this situation.
> He had many options, from what I can gather. He chose the path of breaking
> the law, while at the same time endangering others. Any number of innocent
> bystanders could have been harmed by his actions. What's heroic about that?
> How about reporting the license plate to the authorities & filing a police
> report? In Portland you can get the police to drag people into court with
> you over such incidents. He could have also followed them until he saw a
> police officer, and got the police involved immediately.
> A person is not a 'wussie' (which is not an actual word, by the way) just
> because they choose not to immediately resort to violence, or blindly
> support those that do. You two are doing a splendid job of puffing your
> chests on the internet. Couldn't you have got this childish machismo out of
> your system in High School?
>
> On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 7:45 PM, dacrizzow wrote:
>
>> i used to be a messenger in atl. not a freindly city like pdx. had to
>> handle things in an aggro manner. living here that doesn't happen so much.
>> at times i feel like it but let it go. HOWEVER, i DO NOT believe in this
>> whole turn the other cheek thing. there are a number of ways to handle each
>> situation. sometimes the last resort is the only resort. kudos to those who
>> put it on the line in the heat of the moment. there is nothing noble about
>> being a coward. and even less noble in "scolding" these vigilantes/ heros.
>> when someone crosses the line they should expect whatever they get. i gots
>> no respect for the wussies who expect us all to cower. oh yeah, keep this
>> public. DO NOT reply to me privatly
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

dacrizzow

brooke, i don't suggest anything. re=read my post. everyone makes different desicions based on different situations. alot of us are just tired of hearing people say 'it makes all cyclists look bad'. personally i would rather look "bad" than afraid, harrassed, or dead. and BTW you still responded privately.

Joshua Hunt

His argument was that they broke the law, therefore he should be able to
exact his own form of retribution, as he sees fit.. He broke the law as
well. In fact, he broke more laws than the instigators did. This is exactly
the kind of thinking that makes people in automobiles feel like they can run
a cyclist down for running a stop light, or swerving across three lanes of
traffic without warning. It's just moronic. Don't expect the cycling
community to support you simply because you're a cyclist. It doesn't mean
that you're right & people in cars are wrong.
Also, I have read through the posts and I can't find where anyone has said
anything about 'turning the other cheek.' Maybe just don't be a total
brainless psycho about it.
"There are a number of ways to handle each situation. Sometimes the last
resort is the only resort" does sound kind of cool, but it doesn't really
make much sense. It particularly doesn't make any sense in this situation.
He had many options, from what I can gather. He chose the path of breaking
the law, while at the same time endangering others. Any number of innocent
bystanders could have been harmed by his actions. What's heroic about that?
How about reporting the license plate to the authorities & filing a police
report? In Portland you can get the police to drag people into court with
you over such incidents. He could have also followed them until he saw a
police officer, and got the police involved immediately.
A person is not a 'wussie' (which is not an actual word, by the way) just
because they choose not to immediately resort to violence, or blindly
support those that do. You two are doing a splendid job of puffing your
chests on the internet. Couldn't you have got this childish machismo out of
your system in High School?

On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 7:45 PM, dacrizzow wrote:

> i used to be a messenger in atl. not a freindly city like pdx. had to
> handle things in an aggro manner. living here that doesn't happen so much.
> at times i feel like it but let it go. HOWEVER, i DO NOT believe in this
> whole turn the other cheek thing. there are a number of ways to handle each
> situation. sometimes the last resort is the only resort. kudos to those who
> put it on the line in the heat of the moment. there is nothing noble about
> being a coward. and even less noble in "scolding" these vigilantes/ heros.
> when someone crosses the line they should expect whatever they get. i gots
> no respect for the wussies who expect us all to cower. oh yeah, keep this
> public. DO NOT reply to me privatly
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Brooke Hoyer

Sure, nameless person, I'll keep it public.
By retaliating against violence with violence, you are continuing a cycle of violence. Someone needs to break the cycle. I do not suggest that Ben should have done nothing. However, chasing down a driver with the purpose of doing violence and property damage isn't the best response. A license plate number and photos would have been *much* more useful. Then going to the police and making a report.
If the teens had continued to harass Ben after the initial can throwing incident, then a violent response might have been warranted to protect himself. However, what he did was a straight up retaliation.
You say that you sometimes have to resort to violence to handle a situation. Do you actually believe that retaliatory violence has benefited you other that to give yourself a warm fuzzy? Someone who is willing to throw a can at your head is probably not going to be dissuaded by retaliation. More likely they will look for more opportunities to further the cycle of violence.
The irony of course is that Ben's response might have actually have given the kids an easier out. If they were in their parents' car, they could very easily have made up some story about a crazy cyclist breaking the window for some minor transgression. The insurance pays and the kids have no repercussions. Contrast that with a visit from the cops telling their parents about the kids lobbing a beer out the window while driving daddy's car.
In the heat of the moment, we have a hard time thinking about what the best options might be. If you get lazy and just let that anger morph into violence and are able to rationalize its use, then that's what you are going to use all the time. And then you are no better than a thug.
So what are you? A man? Or a thug.
As a parting shot, I'd suggest that if you consider someone who retaliates against violence with violence a hero, then you must really find gang members worthy of praise.
Hugs and kisses,Brooke Hoyer

> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 19:45:25 -0700
> From: dacrizzow@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] re; bike vs. cars
>
> i used to be a messenger in atl. not a freindly city like pdx. had to handle things in an aggro manner. living here that doesn't happen so much. at times i feel like it but let it go. HOWEVER, i DO NOT believe in this whole turn the other cheek thing. there are a number of ways to handle each situation. sometimes the last resort is the only resort. kudos to those who put it on the line in the heat of the moment. there is nothing noble about being a coward. and even less noble in "scolding" these vigilantes/ heros. when someone crosses the line they should expect whatever they get. i gots no respect for the wussies who expect us all to cower. oh yeah, keep this public. DO NOT reply to me privatly
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

dacrizzow

i used to be a messenger in atl. not a freindly city like pdx. had to handle things in an aggro manner. living here that doesn't happen so much. at times i feel like it but let it go. HOWEVER, i DO NOT believe in this whole turn the other cheek thing. there are a number of ways to handle each situation. sometimes the last resort is the only resort. kudos to those who put it on the line in the heat of the moment. there is nothing noble about being a coward. and even less noble in "scolding" these vigilantes/ heros. when someone crosses the line they should expect whatever they get. i gots no respect for the wussies who expect us all to cower. oh yeah, keep this public. DO NOT reply to me privatly