Chipp

Ron you are AWESOME! The Sage who'll calm the rage.----- Original Message -----
From: Ron and Dorothy Strasser
To: Maximillian Kirchoff ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Question about 'Cross lapping & manners

I am far from the official voice, but I would just try to advance my bike (carry/push etc) in a manner that was the most out of the way of the people moving faster. I would just do this as a courtesy to them...be they 1st or 43rd. There will be some giving you grief, and probably some giving you support. Yes you are racing and it is important for the person in 1st to remember the two of you could reverse situations at the next race. I await the "official response". Also I remember my Clyde friend Chipp Ross last year pointing out that the Clydes can always "Trample-Trample-Trample".... so that C leader should watch out and not get you (or your fellow Clydes) worked up! :-) He could get caught in a stampede!
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Maximillian Kirchoff
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:52 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Question about 'Cross lapping & manners

I wanted to post an outright complaint but realized that for starters, I wasn't confident in my understanding of the rules or "manners" of the situation, and secondly that this is more of an informative forum than a complaint forum.

So here's my issue and my questions.

I race Clydes and I've been in small and large races. I expect a certain amount of chaos to the Crusades, it's the nature of big gatherings in general. Lots of people = lots of possibilities for problems, etc.
That said, after taking a nice spill, flatting, and running halfway across the course yesterday I found myself at the far back and had C leaders coming up on me. I had a few things yelled at me with those leading Cs coming through. "LEADER COMING THROUGH!!!!" "2ND COMING!!!" 3RD!!" "LEADERS! MAKE SPACE!" and other rather overly dramatic phrases about picking my line and making sure I don't ruin their placements. I believe to one of them I yelled, "I'M BLEEDING, TIRED, AND PITTED ONCE ALREADY....YOU FIND A WAY AROUND!" to which I got some nasty comments. Now I'm not trying to back-handed complain about this, stuff happens. People get excited and they don't want some Clyde crashing them out. I just want to know the facts of what I should/shouldn't be doing here and what the expectations are.

Is there some expectation for me to neutralize for these guys?
I'm still racing my race, and picking the lines I want that are in front of me. I'm not going to go bump these guys, but do I really need to do anything to modify my race if they come up on me?

P.S. Thanks to all the dudes who weren't yelling their heads off.

______________{ :)
Max Kirchoff
(503) 770-0629
http://www.bikeyourself.com
http://www.maxisnow.com

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Dan Grabski

Same here. I was laughably slow in the beginners, and didn't once have
trouble with leaders trying to lap me. Most veryone gave me an "on
your xxx" and passed cleanly. And boy did I get passed a lot.

It all just comes down to respect. And I think for the most part we're
a pretty respectful bunch.

Dan "at least I finished" Grabski

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 4, 2010, at 11:45, Andy Kaylor wrote:

> I can answer as someone with a great deal of experience in being
> passed, and I want to start out by saying that 99% of my experiences
> with this are outstandingly positive. Usually, either somebody goes
> by me cleanly without announcement, or they give me a heads up from
> behind ("on your left").
>
>

Andy Kaylor

I think this is a great discussion to have regularly.

I can answer as someone with a great deal of experience in being passed, and I want to start out by saying that 99% of my experiences with this are outstandingly positive. Usually, either somebody goes by me cleanly without announcement, or they give me a heads up from behind ("on your left").

If I'm confident that they're not on my lap and that I can give them the line they want and still control my bike, I give it to them, whether it's the line I would have preferred or not. When possible, I try to respond by saying, "You've got it" or something as I move over. Of course, there are times when somebody wants to pass me in a spot where there's only one line I think I can safely navigate. In that case, I try indicate "just a minute" and hold my line.

I think all anybody really expects on either side is predictable behavior, and a little courtesy is a nice bonus.

Sometime earlier this year, I had a guy behind me saying "stay right" but the first couple of times all I heard was "right" and thought he wanted to pass on my right, so I did the opposite of what he wanted. That happens, I guess. Hopefully everyone realizes that and is able to at least release their frustration later.

Shane Gibson

Hey Max,

I'm new to this whole racing scene - so I can't offer any real perspective
on "what's right". I can say that the comments you provide as examples -
are rather piss poor manners, in my opinion. I think every racer out there
has a right to race their race. If you're passing someone else, regular
rules should apply, i.e.

* make the pass in an appropriate place that isn't going to upset/crash
out any other racer (yourself, the passee, or neighboring racers)
* let the passee know you're there - a simple "on your right" / "on your
left" so they have a heads up and can (attempt to) hold their line
* pass quickly
* and for GOODNESS SAKE make sure you've cleared the passee before cutting
in

I don't care if your racing for Clydesdale of the Universe (we all know that
the Clydesdales are where all the love should be, right?), or 105th of 110
racers. We're all out there to have OUR race.

In my short experience, I've seen both poor passing and passee behavior. I
spent a half a lap at the first Blind Date trying to pass a rider I lapped
who kept swerving into my line as I'd call it out ... "on your left" I'd say
... then he (Number 313) would swerve in front of me - nearly causing a
crash as he choked off my pass line. Then I'd drop back, and try the right
... same results. I got surly and snapped at him after the 5th attempt
that he cut me off. But heck - maybe the poor bastard was just oxygen
starved and confused; I really shouldn't have snapped at him.

I always try to call out my passing line, which seems to engender some odd
reactions. Mostly thought, I believe(?) it's appreciated, so I don't
startle a slower rider when I blast by them. I've been passed like that
just when I'm about to make a turn - and it scares the heck out of me -
since I was just about to lean "that way" and it would have been disaster if
that rider was a tenth of a second later blasting past me.

Just because you are the leader, doesn't mean the rest of the racers should
neutralize for you. Hell - that's what racing is about. Picking your
lines, picking your passing points, executing on them, reacting to the
course, and reacting to what goes on around you.

If you can't do that - go back to kindergarten, and learn some basic
manners. I'm always surprised at how many people out there would still get
an "F" in manners from a kindergarten teacher. Oxygen starvation and
testosterone overload are a poor excuse for pathetic manners.

Most of all - just have fun. It's not like we're racing for a $20,000 prize
purse.

~~shane

--
"Opportunities multiply as they are seized." - Sun Tzu

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Maximillian Kirchoff wrote:

> I wanted to post an outright complaint but realized that for starters, I
> wasn't confident in my understanding of the rules or "manners" of the
> situation, and secondly that this is more of an informative forum than a
> complaint forum.
>
> So here's my issue and my questions.
>
> I race Clydes and I've been in small and large races. I expect a certain
> amount of chaos to the Crusades, it's the nature of big gatherings in
> general. Lots of people = lots of possibilities for problems, etc.
> That said, after taking a nice spill, flatting, and running halfway across
> the course yesterday I found myself at the far back and had C leaders coming
> up on me. I had a few things yelled at me with those leading Cs coming
> through. "LEADER COMING THROUGH!!!!" "2ND COMING!!!" 3RD!!" "LEADERS! MAKE
> SPACE!" and other rather overly dramatic phrases about picking my line and
> making sure I don't ruin their placements. I believe to one of them I
> yelled, "I'M BLEEDING, TIRED, AND PITTED ONCE ALREADY....YOU FIND A WAY
> AROUND!" to which I got some nasty comments. Now I'm not trying to
> back-handed complain about this, stuff happens. People get excited and they
> don't want some Clyde crashing them out. I just want to know the facts of
> what I should/shouldn't be doing here and what the expectations are.
>
> Is there some expectation for me to neutralize for these guys?
> I'm still racing my race, and picking the lines I want that are in front of
> me. I'm not going to go bump these guys, but do I really need to do anything
> to modify my race if they come up on me?
>
>
> P.S. Thanks to all the dudes who weren't yelling their heads off.
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________{ :)
> Max Kirchoff
> (503) 770-0629
> http://www.bikeyourself.com
> http://www.maxisnow.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

I am far from the official voice, but I would just try to advance my bike (carry/push etc) in a manner that was the most out of the way of the people moving faster. I would just do this as a courtesy to them...be they 1st or 43rd. There will be some giving you grief, and probably some giving you support. Yes you are racing and it is important for the person in 1st to remember the two of you could reverse situations at the next race. I await the "official response". Also I remember my Clyde friend Chipp Ross last year pointing out that the Clydes can always "Trample-Trample-Trample".... so that C leader should watch out and not get you (or your fellow Clydes) worked up! :-) He could get caught in a stampede!
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Maximillian Kirchoff
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:52 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Question about 'Cross lapping & manners

I wanted to post an outright complaint but realized that for starters, I wasn't confident in my understanding of the rules or "manners" of the situation, and secondly that this is more of an informative forum than a complaint forum.

So here's my issue and my questions.

I race Clydes and I've been in small and large races. I expect a certain amount of chaos to the Crusades, it's the nature of big gatherings in general. Lots of people = lots of possibilities for problems, etc.
That said, after taking a nice spill, flatting, and running halfway across the course yesterday I found myself at the far back and had C leaders coming up on me. I had a few things yelled at me with those leading Cs coming through. "LEADER COMING THROUGH!!!!" "2ND COMING!!!" 3RD!!" "LEADERS! MAKE SPACE!" and other rather overly dramatic phrases about picking my line and making sure I don't ruin their placements. I believe to one of them I yelled, "I'M BLEEDING, TIRED, AND PITTED ONCE ALREADY....YOU FIND A WAY AROUND!" to which I got some nasty comments. Now I'm not trying to back-handed complain about this, stuff happens. People get excited and they don't want some Clyde crashing them out. I just want to know the facts of what I should/shouldn't be doing here and what the expectations are.

Is there some expectation for me to neutralize for these guys?
I'm still racing my race, and picking the lines I want that are in front of me. I'm not going to go bump these guys, but do I really need to do anything to modify my race if they come up on me?

P.S. Thanks to all the dudes who weren't yelling their heads off.

______________{ :)
Max Kirchoff
(503) 770-0629
http://www.bikeyourself.com
http://www.maxisnow.com

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obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Maximillian Kirchoff

I wanted to post an outright complaint but realized that for starters, I
wasn't confident in my understanding of the rules or "manners" of the
situation, and secondly that this is more of an informative forum than a
complaint forum.

So here's my issue and my questions.

I race Clydes and I've been in small and large races. I expect a certain
amount of chaos to the Crusades, it's the nature of big gatherings in
general. Lots of people = lots of possibilities for problems, etc.
That said, after taking a nice spill, flatting, and running halfway across
the course yesterday I found myself at the far back and had C leaders coming
up on me. I had a few things yelled at me with those leading Cs coming
through. "LEADER COMING THROUGH!!!!" "2ND COMING!!!" 3RD!!" "LEADERS! MAKE
SPACE!" and other rather overly dramatic phrases about picking my line and
making sure I don't ruin their placements. I believe to one of them I
yelled, "I'M BLEEDING, TIRED, AND PITTED ONCE ALREADY....YOU FIND A WAY
AROUND!" to which I got some nasty comments. Now I'm not trying to
back-handed complain about this, stuff happens. People get excited and they
don't want some Clyde crashing them out. I just want to know the facts of
what I should/shouldn't be doing here and what the expectations are.

Is there some expectation for me to neutralize for these guys?
I'm still racing my race, and picking the lines I want that are in front of
me. I'm not going to go bump these guys, but do I really need to do anything
to modify my race if they come up on me?

P.S. Thanks to all the dudes who weren't yelling their heads off.

______________{ :)
Max Kirchoff
(503) 770-0629
http://www.bikeyourself.com
http://www.maxisnow.com