Ron and Dorothy Strasser

We do set examples for the youngsters. All of us have had good and bad
experiences with regard to that. I have cursed on the course but hope not
where a junior or any other rider could hear... but it might have happened.
I have cut off riders because I was riding like a jerk....both junior and
adult. I have gone off the course into the crowd....not to take them out,
but just to let them get the feel of a muddy racer up close. I talk about
beer (because I like beer) not because I think juniors should drink it.
Life is full of tricky, tight situations and I believe hiding from them make
them more dangerous in the long run. Being up front with other riders,
including juniors is the best thing we can do for not just the sport, but
society. Treat people with respect on and off the course and accept the
fact that we have rules we need to follow or accept the consequences of not
doing so.....like my 34mm tire width hang up. Not to worry. I do not take
beer hand ups any longer (lesson learned), I go over all the barriers / not
around them, I try to encourage other riders no matter his/her cat and I
have a set of UCI approved (33mm) for my race at Nationals. Thanks OBRA for
letting me use my 34mm tires and working with so many promoters so I can
wear them out and eventually replace with all 33mm or under. Think narrow!
Not really...don't want you to do that.
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Schauer"
To: "dacrizzow"
Cc:
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Rider counts by race time (Rainier)

> You speak the truth....cyclocross is certainly an easy and fun mid
> life crisis way to dispose of a seriously significant amount of
> income!
>
> And I'm happily disposing of some of our income on cyclocross bikes,
> tubular wheels, shoe dryers, lots of white bar tape, and race entry
> fees for my junior racer who gets to race with all you "Fast 50's" and
> I feel better about that than spending it on video games! My hope is
> that this makes these young guns better more productive and
> contributing members of society who appreciate all of us master
> racers. And you "Fast 50's" should be happy to race and mentor these
> juniors so they are helping to fund social security for y'all when
> OBRA and the Knights of the Crusade refuse to add a master's 70+ cat
> and you all have to retire! :-)>
>
> Go ahead and .... Flame away!
>
> Tim "my kid can't catch me if I'm in the masters A race......yet!" Schauer
>
> Sent from my mobile device
>
> On Oct 11, 2010, at 9:14 PM, dacrizzow wrote:
>
>> the mountain bike series i used to race in across the country broke the
>> age cats up in 10's.-20-29, 30-39, etc. it would add a heat or two to the
>> day. 35-49 is a big gap. lots of guys going through mid-life crisis with
>> disposable income.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Terry Keele

for everyone looking to see how fast they really are, but are stuck at the back of a 200 rider field, test your self on Saturday. Both the David Douglas and Hesier farms CX offered a fair opportunity for anyone to reach the podium no matter where they staged. These were both great races run on super fun courses that are not open to the Mongol hoard that the Crusade has become.

The promoters of these races go through great effort and expense to provide you with another day of racing. Racing on Saturday makes for good legs on Sunday. Our friends at Half Fast are hosting this Saturday at Ninkrossi, a short drive just a little past the Couve. See you all there.

tk

Tim Schauer

You speak the truth....cyclocross is certainly an easy and fun mid
life crisis way to dispose of a seriously significant amount of
income!

And I'm happily disposing of some of our income on cyclocross bikes,
tubular wheels, shoe dryers, lots of white bar tape, and race entry
fees for my junior racer who gets to race with all you "Fast 50's" and
I feel better about that than spending it on video games! My hope is
that this makes these young guns better more productive and
contributing members of society who appreciate all of us master
racers. And you "Fast 50's" should be happy to race and mentor these
juniors so they are helping to fund social security for y'all when
OBRA and the Knights of the Crusade refuse to add a master's 70+ cat
and you all have to retire! :-)>

Go ahead and .... Flame away!

Tim "my kid can't catch me if I'm in the masters A race......yet!" Schauer

Sent from my mobile device

On Oct 11, 2010, at 9:14 PM, dacrizzow wrote:

> the mountain bike series i used to race in across the country broke the age cats up in 10's.-20-29, 30-39, etc. it would add a heat or two to the day. 35-49 is a big gap. lots of guys going through mid-life crisis with disposable income.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

Or you could just dump the whole 50 and 60+ groups and have them divided up
between the master A, B or C. Or.... all you fast 50+ racers just race with
the cat A masters like Cramer. Life is not perfect. I do believe Jon
Myers (not because he is my teammate, but because he is sincere in his
commitment to fairness) will do all he can to make the races and venues as
good as possible. We racers can become quite unhappy over things impacting
our individual race. We just have to remember it is the same for every
other racer out there. Steve has a good point about the juniors situation,
but I am not sure racing with the beginners is a better place for them. I
remember when the 50+ raced early with the beginners. There were 50+ riders
unhappy about that... the early time and the beginners. The juniors having
their own race works pretty good. It just seems there is always something.
There are probably ways to make it better for everyone. It just seems
everyone in Oregon is racing the Crusade series. I see that as a problem we
all need to be willing to deal with. Just like traffic around town and on
the freeways. People want to go places and they want to race and most have
different motivations for all this travel and racing. There is only so much
daylight. There is only one Crusade race per week (except Halloween week).
Everyone could get their own cat and the races be 15-20 minutes long maybe.
We know that would never float! Of course the other option is for racers to
race the other races being put offered. I am sure the Crusade would do fine
if 2-3 hundred riders did not show up each week because they were racing
other races. I do not say that as a negative about the Crusade. CycloCross
Crusade is just the mature animal which started out as a small playful
creature. Now it is a big, big land animal. I love riding the crusade. If
I was racing A, B, or C masters I would have fun. I guess I am just easy to
please. I hope the racers who are fast, who want to improve into top racers
in the nation etc, get to race with a group where they feel challenged. I
do think some riders who feel hindered by the large number of riders in
their cat. might explore ways to deal with it emotionally. We 50+ racers
are baby boomers. Not to say we have not had some rough times in our lives,
but compared to generations before us.... we have pretty much gotten what we
want most of the time.
If I have offended any of you with these thoughts, that does not make me
happy. If you see me as small minded concerning this and or all other
things, I am sorry. I just have to say again. I think we have fantastic
opportunities to race cross here in Oregon because every promoter I have
dealt with is doing all they can to put on a good race. None are perfect,
but they are trying. There are many thoughtful, well intentioned and
intelligent people we race with and who put on the races. They work to make
racing the best it can be for us.
See those of you who choose to race it... at Ninkrossi and at Sherwood.
Thanks for reading.
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Myers"
To:
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Rider counts by race time (Rainier)

>I have a spreadsheet that has data going back many years covering rider
>counts in every category for every Cross Crusade event. We at the Cross
>Crusade have used the data over the years to add start times and move
>categories around to better balance fields. We will continue to do that in
>the future. There are a lot of factors that go into changing fields around
>and we run dozens of scenarios using our spreadsheet to make those
>decisions. We take this topic very seriously and put a lot of effort into
>how our start times are structured. We are always listening for
>suggestions.
> Thanks, Jon
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

dacrizzow

the mountain bike series i used to race in across the country broke the age cats up in 10's.-20-29, 30-39, etc. it would add a heat or two to the day. 35-49 is a big gap. lots of guys going through mid-life crisis with disposable income.

Jon Myers

I have a spreadsheet that has data going back many years covering rider counts in every category for every Cross Crusade event. We at the Cross Crusade have used the data over the years to add start times and move categories around to better balance fields. We will continue to do that in the future. There are a lot of factors that go into changing fields around and we run dozens of scenarios using our spreadsheet to make those decisions. We take this topic very seriously and put a lot of effort into how our start times are structured. We are always listening for suggestions.
Thanks, Jon

Jim Miller

Dear mad max,

I raced thunderdome through mud, vomit, raw bacon chunks pelting me
and a stripper bus. The beer in the was only a problem because they
were missing my mouth or drivetrain. Wasting beer is just not cool.

Jm

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 11, 2010, at 6:47 PM, Max Kirchoff wrote:

> But without the Juniors protecting you guys, you're susceptible to
> having beer tossed at you.
>
> - Max
>
> On Oct 11, 2010, at 5:33 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
>
>> I agree with Lacey. Something needs to be done at 11:40. It's just
>> not working. I'm hearing lots of legitamate grumblings from long
>> time crusade veterans.
>>
>> Jim miller
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 11, 2010, at 5:00 PM, Steve Lacey wrote:
>>
>>> Telling chart. Looks like a good tool for race officials to level
>>> out the fields particularly the 11:40 field. Maybe the juniors
>>> could be grouped with the beginners.
>>>
>>> It's not doing the juniors any favors riding in a 200 person
>>> field of varying abilities, but mostly pretty fast riders.
>>>
>>> From: Sarah Tisdale
>>> To: obra
>>> Sent: Mon, 11 October, 2010 3:47:16 PM
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Rider counts by race time (Rainier)
>>>
>>> Ever wonder how many people are in your race versus others?
>>>
>>> I made a chart for Rainier:
>>> https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AiE9Z_t0g_zMdExTTjFqZDE5RDVMck42NkhlUDlvYnc&hl=en
>>> (Hint: Click on blocks for details)
>>>
>>> Turns out most races have ~150 people. The 11:40am race a bit
>>> bigger,
>>> and the 3pm race is a bit smaller.
>>>
>>> Sarah
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Max Kirchoff

But without the Juniors protecting you guys, you're susceptible to having beer tossed at you.

- Max

On Oct 11, 2010, at 5:33 PM, Jim Miller wrote:

> I agree with Lacey. Something needs to be done at 11:40. It's just not working. I'm hearing lots of legitamate grumblings from long time crusade veterans.
>
> Jim miller
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 11, 2010, at 5:00 PM, Steve Lacey wrote:
>
>> Telling chart. Looks like a good tool for race officials to level out the fields particularly the 11:40 field. Maybe the juniors could be grouped with the beginners.
>>
>> It's not doing the juniors any favors riding in a 200 person field of varying abilities, but mostly pretty fast riders.
>>
>> From: Sarah Tisdale
>> To: obra
>> Sent: Mon, 11 October, 2010 3:47:16 PM
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Rider counts by race time (Rainier)
>>
>> Ever wonder how many people are in your race versus others?
>>
>> I made a chart for Rainier:
>> https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AiE9Z_t0g_zMdExTTjFqZDE5RDVMck42NkhlUDlvYnc&hl=en
>> (Hint: Click on blocks for details)
>>
>> Turns out most races have ~150 people. The 11:40am race a bit bigger,
>> and the 3pm race is a bit smaller.
>>
>> Sarah
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Jim Miller

I agree with Lacey. Something needs to be done at 11:40. It's just
not working. I'm hearing lots of legitamate grumblings from long time
crusade veterans.

Jim miller

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 11, 2010, at 5:00 PM, Steve Lacey wrote:

> Telling chart. Looks like a good tool for race officials to level
> out the fields particularly the 11:40 field. Maybe the juniors
> could be grouped with the beginners.
>
> It's not doing the juniors any favors riding in a 200 person field
> of varying abilities, but mostly pretty fast riders.
>
> From: Sarah Tisdale
> To: obra
> Sent: Mon, 11 October, 2010 3:47:16 PM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Rider counts by race time (Rainier)
>
> Ever wonder how many people are in your race versus others?
>
> I made a chart for Rainier:
> https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AiE9Z_t0g_zMdExTTjFqZDE5RDVMck42NkhlUDlvYnc&hl=en
> (Hint: Click on blocks for details)
>
> Turns out most races have ~150 people. The 11:40am race a bit bigger,
> and the 3pm race is a bit smaller.
>
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Steve Lacey

Telling chart.  Looks like a good tool for race officials to level out the
fields particularly the 11:40 field.  Maybe the juniors could be grouped with
the beginners. 

It's not  doing the juniors any favors riding in a 200 person field of varying
abilities, but mostly pretty fast riders.

________________________________
From: Sarah Tisdale
To: obra
Sent: Mon, 11 October, 2010 3:47:16 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Rider counts by race time (Rainier)

Ever wonder how many people are in your race versus others?

I made a chart for Rainier:
   
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AiE9Z_t0g_zMdExTTjFqZDE5RDVMck42NkhlUDlvYnc&hl=en

    (Hint:  Click on blocks for details)

Turns out most races have ~150 people.  The 11:40am race a bit bigger,
and the 3pm race is a bit smaller.

Sarah
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Sarah Tisdale

Ever wonder how many people are in your race versus others?

I made a chart for Rainier:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AiE9Z_t0g_zMdExTTjFqZDE5RDVMck42NkhlUDlvYnc&hl=en
(Hint: Click on blocks for details)

Turns out most races have ~150 people. The 11:40am race a bit bigger,
and the 3pm race is a bit smaller.

Sarah