Adam Edgerton

>From a promoter's standpoint, trying to get people through registration
quickly is a priority, which often results in the honor system regarding not
checking license cards and instead relying on numbers and assuming the fact
that they have a number means they have a license.

Adam

On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 9:39 AM, Mike Murray wrote:

> If no one checks it - nothing. Ideally it should serve as proof of
> membership. Currently everyone has just been assuming that everyone is
> honest and that the OBRA membership delivery system is flawless. Not
> surprisingly neither assumption is particularly accurate.
>
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> ------------------------------
> *From: * tackyglueit
> *Date: *Wed, 13 Oct 2010 09:23:53 -0700
> *To: *
> *Cc: *OBRA remailer
> *Subject: *Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX
>
> pardon me but what is the purpose of our fancy pants membership cards?
>
> On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Mike Murray wrote:
>
>> We don't currently have a mechanism to conveniently check for membership
>> before scoring a rider's finish. So yes, non-members are being scored. We
>> may want to create a system that compares finishes with membership to find
>> non-members who enter races.
>> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rick Johnson
>> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 07:59:19
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX
>>
>> I second that proposal. OBRA has plenty of good uses for the
>> additional money. It will certainly encourage people to bring their
>> proof of membership.
>>
>> Also, I haven't heard anyone comment on non-member racers being included
>> in the results. Are non-members being scored?
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> Rick Johnson
>> Bend Oregon
>>
>> * * *
>>
>> Liberal intercourse - founding father approved since 1796
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/13/2010 7:36 AM, Mike Murray wrote:
>> > The current estimate of number of non-member riders for cross is near
>> 200 riders. I propose that if a rider does not have proof of membership with
>> him that he pays an extra fee to race.
>> > Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Eric Sletmoe
>> > Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>> > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:29:38
>> > To:
>> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership& CX
>> >
>> > So if we require racers to show their license at every race, what are we
>> going to do if they don't have it? Not let them race? Then we might as well
>> just have USAC sanction these events. Oh wait, been there, done that, don't
>> want to go back to that. The goal is to make it easy for everyone to have a
>> great time racing.
>> >
>> > I mean, really, how many racers are we talking about? 10 to 15? 1%? I
>> agree, that one percent of racers are douches, and they should be publicly
>> humiliated once it is determined that this is not an inadvertent occurrence
>> but some ill informed fellow racer. But do we need to make a federal case
>> out of it? I think not. We don't need to overly burden the promoters and
>> their volunteers who do a great job. We all just want to enjoy racing.
>> >
>> > I have a couple of ideas for the miscreants. Give their names to
>> Splinter and let him call them out. Or better yet, post their numbers
>> somewhere. Its Cross, I'm always looking for someone to run off the trail!
>> But let’s try not to complicate things too much.
>> >
>> > Just my two cents (or twenty dollar license fee) worth.
>> >
>> > eric
>> >_______________________________________________
>> > OBRA mailing list
>> > obra@list.obra.org
>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> >_______________________________________________
>> > OBRA mailing list
>> > obra@list.obra.org
>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

eric aldinger

I will pay extra for a gender check before each race.

On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 9:39 AM, Mike Murray wrote:
> If no one checks it - nothing. Ideally it should serve as proof of
> membership. Currently everyone has just been assuming that everyone is
> honest and that the OBRA membership delivery system is flawless. Not
> surprisingly neither assumption is particularly accurate.
>
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> ________________________________
> From: tackyglueit
> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 09:23:53 -0700
> To:
> Cc: OBRA remailer
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX
> pardon me but what is the purpose of our fancy pants membership cards?
>
> On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Mike Murray wrote:
>>
>> We don't currently have a mechanism to conveniently check for membership
>> before scoring a rider's finish. So yes, non-members are being scored. We
>> may want to create a system that compares finishes with membership to find
>> non-members who enter races.
>> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rick Johnson
>> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 07:59:19
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX
>>
>>  I second that proposal. OBRA has plenty of good uses for the
>> additional money. It will certainly encourage people to bring their
>> proof of membership.
>>
>> Also, I haven't heard anyone comment on non-member racers being included
>> in the results. Are non-members being scored?
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> Rick Johnson
>> Bend Oregon
>>
>> *    *    *
>>
>> Liberal intercourse - founding father approved since 1796
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/13/2010 7:36 AM, Mike Murray wrote:
>> > The current estimate of number of non-member riders for cross is near
>> > 200 riders. I propose that if a rider does not have proof of membership with
>> > him that he pays an extra fee to race.
>> > Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Eric Sletmoe
>> > Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>> > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:29:38
>> > To:
>> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership&  CX
>> >
>> > So if we require racers to show their license at every race, what are we
>> > going to do if they don't have it? Not let them race? Then we might as well
>> > just have USAC sanction these events.  Oh wait, been there, done that, don't
>> > want to go back to that. The goal is to make it easy for everyone to have a
>> > great time racing.
>> >
>> > I mean, really, how many racers are we talking about? 10 to 15? 1%? I
>> > agree, that one percent of racers are douches, and they should be publicly
>> > humiliated once it is determined that this is not an inadvertent occurrence
>> > but some ill informed fellow racer. But do we need to make a federal case
>> > out of it?  I think not. We don't need to overly burden the promoters and
>> > their volunteers who do a great job.  We all just want to enjoy racing.
>> >
>> > I have a couple of ideas for the miscreants.  Give their names to
>> > Splinter and let him call them out.  Or better yet, post their numbers
>> > somewhere. Its Cross, I'm always looking for someone to run off the trail!
>> > But let’s try not to complicate things too much.
>> >
>> > Just my two cents (or twenty dollar license fee) worth.
>> >
>> > eric
>> >_______________________________________________
>> > OBRA mailing list
>> > obra@list.obra.org
>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> >_______________________________________________
>> > OBRA mailing list
>> > obra@list.obra.org
>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Eric Aldinger

Mike Murray

If no one checks it - nothing. Ideally it should serve as proof of membership. Currently everyone has just been assuming that everyone is honest and that the OBRA membership delivery system is flawless. Not surprisingly neither assumption is particularly accurate.
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: tackyglueit
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 09:23:53
To:
Cc: OBRA remailer
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX

pardon me but what is the purpose of our fancy pants membership cards?

On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Mike Murray wrote:

> We don't currently have a mechanism to conveniently check for membership
> before scoring a rider's finish. So yes, non-members are being scored. We
> may want to create a system that compares finishes with membership to find
> non-members who enter races.
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Johnson
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 07:59:19
> To:
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX
>
> I second that proposal. OBRA has plenty of good uses for the
> additional money. It will certainly encourage people to bring their
> proof of membership.
>
> Also, I haven't heard anyone comment on non-member racers being included
> in the results. Are non-members being scored?
>
> Rick
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend Oregon
>
> * * *
>
> Liberal intercourse - founding father approved since 1796
>
>
>
> On 10/13/2010 7:36 AM, Mike Murray wrote:
> > The current estimate of number of non-member riders for cross is near 200
> riders. I propose that if a rider does not have proof of membership with him
> that he pays an extra fee to race.
> > Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eric Sletmoe
> > Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:29:38
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership& CX
> >
> > So if we require racers to show their license at every race, what are we
> going to do if they don't have it? Not let them race? Then we might as well
> just have USAC sanction these events. Oh wait, been there, done that, don't
> want to go back to that. The goal is to make it easy for everyone to have a
> great time racing.
> >
> > I mean, really, how many racers are we talking about? 10 to 15? 1%? I
> agree, that one percent of racers are douches, and they should be publicly
> humiliated once it is determined that this is not an inadvertent occurrence
> but some ill informed fellow racer. But do we need to make a federal case
> out of it? I think not. We don't need to overly burden the promoters and
> their volunteers who do a great job. We all just want to enjoy racing.
> >
> > I have a couple of ideas for the miscreants. Give their names to
> Splinter and let him call them out. Or better yet, post their numbers
> somewhere. Its Cross, I'm always looking for someone to run off the trail!
> But let’s try not to complicate things too much.
> >
> > Just my two cents (or twenty dollar license fee) worth.
> >
> > eric
> >_______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >_______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>_______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>_______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Brian Duhon

What about a system like races in Washington state where not only do you need to
have a USAC membership but you must show it at race check-in/registration before
being approved to appear at the start line for your category race? Then it's a
matter of comparing the finish results to the "approved" start list from
check-in/registration.

Brian

________________________________
From: Mike Murray
Cc: OBRA remailer
Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 9:23:02 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX

This would address the problem of non-members at cross but not at other events.
I suspect that there is only an issue at events where annual numbers are not
used but that includes mtn bike races and stage races too.

Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Prettyman
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 07:58:11
To: Mike Murray
Cc: OBRA remailer
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX

What if OBRA separated CCX out as a separate license for everybody?  You don't
get a number unless you sign up for a cross license.  And you use the same cross
number for all cross races.

Pre-reg for cross license before the season and it gets mailed to you -
otherwise, get your number when you pay for your license at your first race of
the season.

Separate mailing expense - I know - but that could probably be offset in the
separate license fee.

Seems like it could work, unless of course there's a good reason why different
series have different numbers.

-jon

On Oct 13, 2010, at 7:36 AM, Mike Murray wrote:

> The current estimate of number of non-member riders for cross is near 200
>riders. I propose that if a rider does not have proof of membership with him
>that he pays an extra fee to race.
>
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Sletmoe
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:29:38
> To:
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX
>
> So if we require racers to show their license at every race, what are we going
>to do if they don't have it? Not let them race? Then we might as well just have
>USAC sanction these events.  Oh wait, been there, done that, don't want to go
>back to that. The goal is to make it easy for everyone to have a great time
>racing.
>
> I mean, really, how many racers are we talking about? 10 to 15? 1%? I agree,
>that one percent of racers are douches, and they should be publicly humiliated
>once it is determined that this is not an inadvertent occurrence but some ill
>informed fellow racer. But do we need to make a federal case out of it?  I think
>not. We don't need to overly burden the promoters and their volunteers who do a
>great job.  We all just want to enjoy racing.
>
> I have a couple of ideas for the miscreants.  Give their names to Splinter and
>let him call them out.  Or better yet, post their numbers somewhere. Its Cross,
>I'm always looking for someone to run off the trail! But let’s try not to
>complicate things too much.
>
> Just my two cents (or twenty dollar license fee) worth.
>
> eric
>_______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>_______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Russell @ Upper Echelon Fitness

I know a couple folks who had their wallets returned to them after losing
them thanks to the OBRA card.

*Russell Cree, DPT
Upper Echelon Fitness: Portland's Cycling Training Center
Coaching + Training + Bike Fit + Lactate Testing + Physical Therapy +
Massage
www.upperechelonfitness.com
Phone: 503.501.8121*

On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 9:27 AM, wrote:

> I used mine to scrape ice off my windshield a couple times last winter.
>
>
>
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On
> Behalf Of *tackyglueit
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 13, 2010 9:24 AM
> *To:* mike.murray@obra.org
> *Cc:* OBRA remailer
>
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX
>
>
>
> pardon me but what is the purpose of our fancy pants membership cards?
>
> On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Mike Murray wrote:
>
> We don't currently have a mechanism to conveniently check for membership
> before scoring a rider's finish. So yes, non-members are being scored. We
> may want to create a system that compares finishes with membership to find
> non-members who enter races.
>
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Rick Johnson
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>
> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 07:59:19
> To:
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX
>
> I second that proposal. OBRA has plenty of good uses for the
> additional money. It will certainly encourage people to bring their
> proof of membership.
>
> Also, I haven't heard anyone comment on non-member racers being included
> in the results. Are non-members being scored?
>
> Rick
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend Oregon
>
> * * *
>
> Liberal intercourse - founding father approved since 1796
>
>
>
> On 10/13/2010 7:36 AM, Mike Murray wrote:
> > The current estimate of number of non-member riders for cross is near 200
> riders. I propose that if a rider does not have proof of membership with him
> that he pays an extra fee to race.
> > Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eric Sletmoe
> > Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:29:38
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership& CX
> >
> > So if we require racers to show their license at every race, what are we
> going to do if they don't have it? Not let them race? Then we might as well
> just have USAC sanction these events. Oh wait, been there, done that, don't
> want to go back to that. The goal is to make it easy for everyone to have a
> great time racing.
> >
> > I mean, really, how many racers are we talking about? 10 to 15? 1%? I
> agree, that one percent of racers are douches, and they should be publicly
> humiliated once it is determined that this is not an inadvertent occurrence
> but some ill informed fellow racer. But do we need to make a federal case
> out of it? I think not. We don't need to overly burden the promoters and
> their volunteers who do a great job. We all just want to enjoy racing.
> >
> > I have a couple of ideas for the miscreants. Give their names to
> Splinter and let him call them out. Or better yet, post their numbers
> somewhere. Its Cross, I'm always looking for someone to run off the trail!
> But let’s try not to complicate things too much.
> >
> > Just my two cents (or twenty dollar license fee) worth.
> >
> > eric
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Todd.Dye@CH2M.com

I used mine to scrape ice off my windshield a couple times last winter.

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of tackyglueit
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 9:24 AM
To: mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: OBRA remailer
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX

pardon me but what is the purpose of our fancy pants membership cards?
On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Mike Murray > wrote:
We don't currently have a mechanism to conveniently check for membership before scoring a rider's finish. So yes, non-members are being scored. We may want to create a system that compares finishes with membership to find non-members who enter races.
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Johnson >
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 07:59:19
To: >
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX

I second that proposal. OBRA has plenty of good uses for the
additional money. It will certainly encourage people to bring their
proof of membership.

Also, I haven't heard anyone comment on non-member racers being included
in the results. Are non-members being scored?

Rick

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

Liberal intercourse - founding father approved since 1796

On 10/13/2010 7:36 AM, Mike Murray wrote:
> The current estimate of number of non-member riders for cross is near 200 riders. I propose that if a rider does not have proof of membership with him that he pays an extra fee to race.
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Sletmoe>
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:29:38
> To:>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership& CX
>
> So if we require racers to show their license at every race, what are we going to do if they don't have it? Not let them race? Then we might as well just have USAC sanction these events. Oh wait, been there, done that, don't want to go back to that. The goal is to make it easy for everyone to have a great time racing.
>
> I mean, really, how many racers are we talking about? 10 to 15? 1%? I agree, that one percent of racers are douches, and they should be publicly humiliated once it is determined that this is not an inadvertent occurrence but some ill informed fellow racer. But do we need to make a federal case out of it? I think not. We don't need to overly burden the promoters and their volunteers who do a great job. We all just want to enjoy racing.
>
> I have a couple of ideas for the miscreants. Give their names to Splinter and let him call them out. Or better yet, post their numbers somewhere. Its Cross, I'm always looking for someone to run off the trail! But let's try not to complicate things too much.
>
> Just my two cents (or twenty dollar license fee) worth.
>
> eric
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

tackyglueit

pardon me but what is the purpose of our fancy pants membership cards?

On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Mike Murray wrote:

> We don't currently have a mechanism to conveniently check for membership
> before scoring a rider's finish. So yes, non-members are being scored. We
> may want to create a system that compares finishes with membership to find
> non-members who enter races.
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Johnson
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 07:59:19
> To:
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX
>
> I second that proposal. OBRA has plenty of good uses for the
> additional money. It will certainly encourage people to bring their
> proof of membership.
>
> Also, I haven't heard anyone comment on non-member racers being included
> in the results. Are non-members being scored?
>
> Rick
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend Oregon
>
> * * *
>
> Liberal intercourse - founding father approved since 1796
>
>
>
> On 10/13/2010 7:36 AM, Mike Murray wrote:
> > The current estimate of number of non-member riders for cross is near 200
> riders. I propose that if a rider does not have proof of membership with him
> that he pays an extra fee to race.
> > Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eric Sletmoe
> > Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:29:38
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership& CX
> >
> > So if we require racers to show their license at every race, what are we
> going to do if they don't have it? Not let them race? Then we might as well
> just have USAC sanction these events. Oh wait, been there, done that, don't
> want to go back to that. The goal is to make it easy for everyone to have a
> great time racing.
> >
> > I mean, really, how many racers are we talking about? 10 to 15? 1%? I
> agree, that one percent of racers are douches, and they should be publicly
> humiliated once it is determined that this is not an inadvertent occurrence
> but some ill informed fellow racer. But do we need to make a federal case
> out of it? I think not. We don't need to overly burden the promoters and
> their volunteers who do a great job. We all just want to enjoy racing.
> >
> > I have a couple of ideas for the miscreants. Give their names to
> Splinter and let him call them out. Or better yet, post their numbers
> somewhere. Its Cross, I'm always looking for someone to run off the trail!
> But let’s try not to complicate things too much.
> >
> > Just my two cents (or twenty dollar license fee) worth.
> >
> > eric
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Mike Murray

This would address the problem of non-members at cross but not at other events. I suspect that there is only an issue at events where annual numbers are not used but that includes mtn bike races and stage races too.
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Prettyman
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 07:58:11
To: Mike Murray
Cc: OBRA remailer
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX

What if OBRA separated CCX out as a separate license for everybody? You don't get a number unless you sign up for a cross license. And you use the same cross number for all cross races.

Pre-reg for cross license before the season and it gets mailed to you - otherwise, get your number when you pay for your license at your first race of the season.

Separate mailing expense - I know - but that could probably be offset in the separate license fee.

Seems like it could work, unless of course there's a good reason why different series have different numbers.

-jon

On Oct 13, 2010, at 7:36 AM, Mike Murray wrote:

> The current estimate of number of non-member riders for cross is near 200 riders. I propose that if a rider does not have proof of membership with him that he pays an extra fee to race.
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Sletmoe
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:29:38
> To:
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX
>
> So if we require racers to show their license at every race, what are we going to do if they don't have it? Not let them race? Then we might as well just have USAC sanction these events. Oh wait, been there, done that, don't want to go back to that. The goal is to make it easy for everyone to have a great time racing.
>
> I mean, really, how many racers are we talking about? 10 to 15? 1%? I agree, that one percent of racers are douches, and they should be publicly humiliated once it is determined that this is not an inadvertent occurrence but some ill informed fellow racer. But do we need to make a federal case out of it? I think not. We don't need to overly burden the promoters and their volunteers who do a great job. We all just want to enjoy racing.
>
> I have a couple of ideas for the miscreants. Give their names to Splinter and let him call them out. Or better yet, post their numbers somewhere. Its Cross, I'm always looking for someone to run off the trail! But let’s try not to complicate things too much.
>
> Just my two cents (or twenty dollar license fee) worth.
>
> eric
>_______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>_______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Murray

We don't currently have a mechanism to conveniently check for membership before scoring a rider's finish. So yes, non-members are being scored. We may want to create a system that compares finishes with membership to find non-members who enter races.
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Johnson
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 07:59:19
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX

I second that proposal. OBRA has plenty of good uses for the
additional money. It will certainly encourage people to bring their
proof of membership.

Also, I haven't heard anyone comment on non-member racers being included
in the results. Are non-members being scored?

Rick

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

Liberal intercourse - founding father approved since 1796

On 10/13/2010 7:36 AM, Mike Murray wrote:
> The current estimate of number of non-member riders for cross is near 200 riders. I propose that if a rider does not have proof of membership with him that he pays an extra fee to race.
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Sletmoe
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:29:38
> To:
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership& CX
>
> So if we require racers to show their license at every race, what are we going to do if they don't have it? Not let them race? Then we might as well just have USAC sanction these events. Oh wait, been there, done that, don't want to go back to that. The goal is to make it easy for everyone to have a great time racing.
>
> I mean, really, how many racers are we talking about? 10 to 15? 1%? I agree, that one percent of racers are douches, and they should be publicly humiliated once it is determined that this is not an inadvertent occurrence but some ill informed fellow racer. But do we need to make a federal case out of it? I think not. We don't need to overly burden the promoters and their volunteers who do a great job. We all just want to enjoy racing.
>
> I have a couple of ideas for the miscreants. Give their names to Splinter and let him call them out. Or better yet, post their numbers somewhere. Its Cross, I'm always looking for someone to run off the trail! But let’s try not to complicate things too much.
>
> Just my two cents (or twenty dollar license fee) worth.
>
> eric
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

jonnyg48@comcast.net

That's the best idea I've heard yet.  That should nip the problem in the bud.

Jon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Murray"
To: "OBRA remailer"
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:36:26 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX

The current estimate of number of non-member riders for cross is near 200 riders. I propose that if a rider does not have proof of membership with him that he pays an extra fee to race.
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Sletmoe
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:29:38
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX

So if we require racers to show their license at every race, what are we going to do if they don't have it? Not let them race? Then we might as well just have USAC sanction these events.  Oh wait, been there, done that, don't want to go back to that. The goal is to make it easy for everyone to have a great time racing.

I mean, really, how many racers are we talking about? 10 to 15? 1%? I agree, that one percent of racers are douches, and they should be publicly humiliated once it is determined that this is not an inadvertent occurrence but some ill informed fellow racer. But do we need to make a federal case out of it?  I think not. We don't need to overly burden the promoters and their volunteers who do a great job.  We all just want to enjoy racing.

I have a couple of ideas for the miscreants.  Give their names to Splinter and let him call them out.  Or better yet, post their numbers somewhere. Its Cross, I'm always looking for someone to run off the trail! But let’s try not to complicate things too much.

Just my two cents (or twenty dollar license fee) worth.

eric
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Candi Murray

Mike's numbers are a little off, like he is sometimes.
The numbers he is looking at could include riders that did one day memberships (i currently do not have a way of checking those) or those that are in transit after this weekend's race. I know that we sold 49 memberships at rainier.

I have been in contact with many of the riders that I know. There seems to be some problems when riders join at a race and then the paperwork does not get completely filed.

I see all of this as a good thing. On the road side it is easy to verify membership because you have to have your number. We now have a system to look at ccx riders and have found a couple of flaws that we now need to figure a fix.

No worries.

Candi

On Oct 13, 2010, at 7:58 AM, Jon Prettyman wrote:

> What if OBRA separated CCX out as a separate license for everybody? You don't get a number unless you sign up for a cross license. And you use the same cross number for all cross races.
>
> Pre-reg for cross license before the season and it gets mailed to you - otherwise, get your number when you pay for your license at your first race of the season.
>
> Separate mailing expense - I know - but that could probably be offset in the separate license fee.
>
> Seems like it could work, unless of course there's a good reason why different series have different numbers.
>
> -jon
>
> On Oct 13, 2010, at 7:36 AM, Mike Murray wrote:
>
>> The current estimate of number of non-member riders for cross is near 200 riders. I propose that if a rider does not have proof of membership with him that he pays an extra fee to race.
>> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Eric Sletmoe
>> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:29:38
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX
>>
>> So if we require racers to show their license at every race, what are we going to do if they don't have it? Not let them race? Then we might as well just have USAC sanction these events. Oh wait, been there, done that, don't want to go back to that. The goal is to make it easy for everyone to have a great time racing.
>>
>> I mean, really, how many racers are we talking about? 10 to 15? 1%? I agree, that one percent of racers are douches, and they should be publicly humiliated once it is determined that this is not an inadvertent occurrence but some ill informed fellow racer. But do we need to make a federal case out of it? I think not. We don't need to overly burden the promoters and their volunteers who do a great job. We all just want to enjoy racing.
>>
>> I have a couple of ideas for the miscreants. Give their names to Splinter and let him call them out. Or better yet, post their numbers somewhere. Its Cross, I'm always looking for someone to run off the trail! But let’s try not to complicate things too much.
>>
>> Just my two cents (or twenty dollar license fee) worth.
>>
>> eric
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Rick Johnson

I second that proposal. OBRA has plenty of good uses for the
additional money. It will certainly encourage people to bring their
proof of membership.

Also, I haven't heard anyone comment on non-member racers being included
in the results. Are non-members being scored?

Rick

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

Liberal intercourse - founding father approved since 1796

On 10/13/2010 7:36 AM, Mike Murray wrote:
> The current estimate of number of non-member riders for cross is near 200 riders. I propose that if a rider does not have proof of membership with him that he pays an extra fee to race.
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Sletmoe
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:29:38
> To:
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership& CX
>
> So if we require racers to show their license at every race, what are we going to do if they don't have it? Not let them race? Then we might as well just have USAC sanction these events. Oh wait, been there, done that, don't want to go back to that. The goal is to make it easy for everyone to have a great time racing.
>
> I mean, really, how many racers are we talking about? 10 to 15? 1%? I agree, that one percent of racers are douches, and they should be publicly humiliated once it is determined that this is not an inadvertent occurrence but some ill informed fellow racer. But do we need to make a federal case out of it? I think not. We don't need to overly burden the promoters and their volunteers who do a great job. We all just want to enjoy racing.
>
> I have a couple of ideas for the miscreants. Give their names to Splinter and let him call them out. Or better yet, post their numbers somewhere. Its Cross, I'm always looking for someone to run off the trail! But let’s try not to complicate things too much.
>
> Just my two cents (or twenty dollar license fee) worth.
>
> eric
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Jon Prettyman

What if OBRA separated CCX out as a separate license for everybody? You don't get a number unless you sign up for a cross license. And you use the same cross number for all cross races.

Pre-reg for cross license before the season and it gets mailed to you - otherwise, get your number when you pay for your license at your first race of the season.

Separate mailing expense - I know - but that could probably be offset in the separate license fee.

Seems like it could work, unless of course there's a good reason why different series have different numbers.

-jon

On Oct 13, 2010, at 7:36 AM, Mike Murray wrote:

> The current estimate of number of non-member riders for cross is near 200 riders. I propose that if a rider does not have proof of membership with him that he pays an extra fee to race.
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Sletmoe
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:29:38
> To:
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX
>
> So if we require racers to show their license at every race, what are we going to do if they don't have it? Not let them race? Then we might as well just have USAC sanction these events. Oh wait, been there, done that, don't want to go back to that. The goal is to make it easy for everyone to have a great time racing.
>
> I mean, really, how many racers are we talking about? 10 to 15? 1%? I agree, that one percent of racers are douches, and they should be publicly humiliated once it is determined that this is not an inadvertent occurrence but some ill informed fellow racer. But do we need to make a federal case out of it? I think not. We don't need to overly burden the promoters and their volunteers who do a great job. We all just want to enjoy racing.
>
> I have a couple of ideas for the miscreants. Give their names to Splinter and let him call them out. Or better yet, post their numbers somewhere. Its Cross, I'm always looking for someone to run off the trail! But let’s try not to complicate things too much.
>
> Just my two cents (or twenty dollar license fee) worth.
>
> eric
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Murray

The current estimate of number of non-member riders for cross is near 200 riders. I propose that if a rider does not have proof of membership with him that he pays an extra fee to race.
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Sletmoe
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:29:38
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX

So if we require racers to show their license at every race, what are we going to do if they don't have it? Not let them race? Then we might as well just have USAC sanction these events. Oh wait, been there, done that, don't want to go back to that. The goal is to make it easy for everyone to have a great time racing.

I mean, really, how many racers are we talking about? 10 to 15? 1%? I agree, that one percent of racers are douches, and they should be publicly humiliated once it is determined that this is not an inadvertent occurrence but some ill informed fellow racer. But do we need to make a federal case out of it? I think not. We don't need to overly burden the promoters and their volunteers who do a great job. We all just want to enjoy racing.

I have a couple of ideas for the miscreants. Give their names to Splinter and let him call them out. Or better yet, post their numbers somewhere. Its Cross, I'm always looking for someone to run off the trail! But let’s try not to complicate things too much.

Just my two cents (or twenty dollar license fee) worth.

eric
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obra@list.obra.org
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Ron and Dorothy Strasser

I know. I am so sick of being carded.
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Johnson
To: David Hart
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX

The thing about requiring people to have their membership card with them at sign up is that pretty quickly everyone starts to remember it if they can't register without it.
You can bet they remember their ID for the beer garden...

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

Every revolutionary idea seems to evoke three stages of reaction...
One, it's completely impossible.
Two, it's possible, but it's not worth doing.
Three, I said it was a good idea all along.

Arthur C. Clarke
On 10/12/2010 5:05 PM, David Hart wrote:
I have been working registration for Cross Crusade and a few other 'cross races for 3 years. I was brought on for these issues. Even though I do hear my coworkers ask if the riders is a current member. It's easy to lie & it's easy to make a mistake. Why? Because it is not mandatory to carry your OBRA card. We have been asking for it but not everyone carriers it. We could have a database of all the current riders on a PC to check but with 20+ people in line, some of you would be a little upset waiting so long as we check your ID.

OBRA goes on the honor system on a few things.

I wouldn't mind using the laptop to enter riders instead of handwriting them in and checking them against the current membership file. I am not the one in charge of Crusade. I don't know how they feel about it. Another problem using a PC: only one person would do registration. The line could be long! I could see having a checkpoint at registration. Have your OBRA card handy or give your name. Check that against the current member file and then if you are current, you are allowed to pass to the registration table. If not, you are handed a membership form.

On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Mike Murray wrote:

Some of the no membership people are new people but some are people that have been around for a while, have ridden races before and likely know they are supposed to purchase a membership but just figured that they wouldn’t get caught. A bit like riding MAX without a ticket. Personally I think that after they purchase a membership they should be penalized under rule 11.2.2 and 11.4. After all they are cheaters and it is not like we have a shortage of cross riders.

Registration at races is a problem not only for the membership issue but also for the lack of uniformity, inaccuracy, lack of digital registration information, etc. Currently registration at races is staff by people provided by the race organizer. Most often they are doing registration for only that event and no others. This is in contrast to the officials who are assigned by OBRA and paid by the race organizer. Most officials do many races.

We could solve many of the registration problems by doing registration the way we do officials but this would be more costly to the race organizer since they are currently generally using unpaid volunteers and they would not be so happy to be replacing them with paid people, even with the minimal officials pay. There are currently some race organizers who bristle at even having to sell OBRA memberships. If we were to go this route we would also have to recruit a significant number of people to work for minimal pay signing people up at races. This might be an insurmountable challenge.

The bottom line is that race organizer and riders have to realize that providing a streamlined and accurate registration system improves the experience for everyone. It provides the officials and OBRA with accurate information and needed revenue. It makes it less likely that a system of assigned and paid registration staffing will need to be imposed.

I suspect that the problem of people riding without purchasing a membership is not at all a new problem. In the past when we were not able to place everyone and we were not able to compare the membership information with those places we were not likely to notice this unless it was particularly egregious. Technical advances in how we results and maintain membership information has made cheaters easier to find.

Mike Murray

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Brian Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 12:22 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX

I don't understand-- if these are new people then it seems that it's incumbent upon the registration folks to see to it that OBRA licensing requirements are fulfilled. (Frankly registration is always a little un-organized looking and holds great potential to be very confusing to any first-timer or inexperienced racer.)

If it's experienced racers, then I wonder what the heck is going on.

Although I would look to the lack of clear information available at registration. There's lots to remember and lots to forget. I had forgotten that there was a CX-only option for OBRA memberships (I've always been a full member since first joining in 2005).

Brian J.

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 08:37:35 -0700
From: "Candi Murray"
To:
Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership
Message-ID: <446A2859553B4385A5F266E0C1014481@CANDILAPTOP>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

There have been a few people that have been competing every week at
Cyclocross that have not joined the organization. This is a requirement of
participation. (and a Cyclocross only membership is only $10). I have marked
some names at registration so that it may be caught at the next race. But
frankly I am appalled. If you choose to play, please at least do the
minimum.

Candi

* * *
My father asks : "Do you live here or ride bikes?"
http://liveorridebikes.blogspot.com

My life as a Crossniac:
www.crossniacs.com

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--
david hart
www.wenzelcoaching.com

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Brett Boyles

Stop the nonsense about requiring cards. Learn to trust your fellow human. Who wants to waste a 4 hour drive because they forgot their liscense?

Whats next?

Scales to weigh the Clydesdales
Gender check
Age check - birth certificate required
Obra racing class check - bring records of VO2 Max
Doping check - bring your urine sample

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Karsten Hagen
Sent: Wed 10/13/2010 6:41 AM
To: Eric Sletmoe; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX

Show your devotion and solidarity by having your race number tattooed to
your forehead!

Kidding.

Even though I am utterly disorganized and will be one of the first ones to
be burned by this, we really should show our license at registration.

Typically, if I forget my card, things go something like this:
"Oh wow, I forgot my license"
"Bummer, dude. What's your name?"
"Carson Weiller"
"Oh yeah, you're that big dude. Shouldn't you be pulling a plow? Kidding!
Nice white shorts. Go ahead and race".

OK-that's great and we're all chummy here in Oregon. But what if I was
lying and some dude chops me while he's trying to attack and I end up on my
lips, then unconscious and drooling in a helicopter? What happens to the
promoter? Does OBRA membership realize how much better racing is here than
anywhere else? That could go away.

I still owe Kenji $20 when I forgot to bring cash to Banana Belt #1 this
year. And uh, I'll pay him back. But at least the promoter knew I
supported the best bike racing organization in the world.

I get my OBRA license because I want to. I get my USAC license because I
HAVE to.

Karsten

On 10/12/10 10:29 PM, "Eric Sletmoe" wrote:

> So if we require racers to show their license at every race, what are we going
> to do if they don't have it? Not let them race? Then we might as well just
> have USAC sanction these events. Oh wait, been there, done that, don't want
> to go back to that. The goal is to make it easy for everyone to have a great
> time racing.

I mean, really, how many racers are we talking about? 10 to 15?
> 1%? I agree, that one percent of racers are douches, and they should be
> publicly humiliated once it is determined that this is not an inadvertent
> occurrence but some ill informed fellow racer. But do we need to make a
> federal case out of it? I think not. We don't need to overly burden the
> promoters and their volunteers who do a great job. We all just want to enjoy
> racing.

I have a couple of ideas for the miscreants. Give their names to
> Splinter and let him call them out. Or better yet, post their numbers
> somewhere. Its Cross, I'm always looking for someone to run off the trail! But
> let¹s try not to complicate things too much.

Just my two cents (or twenty
> dollar license fee)
> worth.

eric
_______________________________________________
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> list
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Karsten Hagen

Show your devotion and solidarity by having your race number tattooed to
your forehead!

Kidding.

Even though I am utterly disorganized and will be one of the first ones to
be burned by this, we really should show our license at registration.

Typically, if I forget my card, things go something like this:
"Oh wow, I forgot my license"
"Bummer, dude. What's your name?"
"Carson Weiller"
"Oh yeah, you're that big dude. Shouldn't you be pulling a plow? Kidding!
Nice white shorts. Go ahead and race".

OK-that's great and we're all chummy here in Oregon. But what if I was
lying and some dude chops me while he's trying to attack and I end up on my
lips, then unconscious and drooling in a helicopter? What happens to the
promoter? Does OBRA membership realize how much better racing is here than
anywhere else? That could go away.

I still owe Kenji $20 when I forgot to bring cash to Banana Belt #1 this
year. And uh, I'll pay him back. But at least the promoter knew I
supported the best bike racing organization in the world.

I get my OBRA license because I want to. I get my USAC license because I
HAVE to.

Karsten

On 10/12/10 10:29 PM, "Eric Sletmoe" wrote:

> So if we require racers to show their license at every race, what are we going
> to do if they don't have it? Not let them race? Then we might as well just
> have USAC sanction these events. Oh wait, been there, done that, don't want
> to go back to that. The goal is to make it easy for everyone to have a great
> time racing.

I mean, really, how many racers are we talking about? 10 to 15?
> 1%? I agree, that one percent of racers are douches, and they should be
> publicly humiliated once it is determined that this is not an inadvertent
> occurrence but some ill informed fellow racer. But do we need to make a
> federal case out of it? I think not. We don't need to overly burden the
> promoters and their volunteers who do a great job. We all just want to enjoy
> racing.

I have a couple of ideas for the miscreants. Give their names to
> Splinter and let him call them out. Or better yet, post their numbers
> somewhere. Its Cross, I'm always looking for someone to run off the trail! But
> let¹s try not to complicate things too much.

Just my two cents (or twenty
> dollar license fee)
> worth.

eric
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halfwheelhill@yahoo.com

How hard is it to bring your OBRA card to a race. They are pretty small. I really like the OBRA mentality too. It is laid back and fun, but if people are going to race illegally and possible litigation would come from it, I think a promoter would want to be sure everybody was racing legit. It is only $20.

Scott
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Sletmoe
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 22:29:38
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX

So if we require racers to show their license at every race, what are we going to do if they don't have it? Not let them race? Then we might as well just have USAC sanction these events. Oh wait, been there, done that, don't want to go back to that. The goal is to make it easy for everyone to have a great time racing.

I mean, really, how many racers are we talking about? 10 to 15? 1%? I agree, that one percent of racers are douches, and they should be publicly humiliated once it is determined that this is not an inadvertent occurrence but some ill informed fellow racer. But do we need to make a federal case out of it? I think not. We don't need to overly burden the promoters and their volunteers who do a great job. We all just want to enjoy racing.

I have a couple of ideas for the miscreants. Give their names to Splinter and let him call them out. Or better yet, post their numbers somewhere. Its Cross, I'm always looking for someone to run off the trail! But let’s try not to complicate things too much.

Just my two cents (or twenty dollar license fee) worth.

eric
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Eric Sletmoe

So if we require racers to show their license at every race, what are we going to do if they don't have it? Not let them race? Then we might as well just have USAC sanction these events. Oh wait, been there, done that, don't want to go back to that. The goal is to make it easy for everyone to have a great time racing.

I mean, really, how many racers are we talking about? 10 to 15? 1%? I agree, that one percent of racers are douches, and they should be publicly humiliated once it is determined that this is not an inadvertent occurrence but some ill informed fellow racer. But do we need to make a federal case out of it? I think not. We don't need to overly burden the promoters and their volunteers who do a great job. We all just want to enjoy racing.

I have a couple of ideas for the miscreants. Give their names to Splinter and let him call them out. Or better yet, post their numbers somewhere. Its Cross, I'm always looking for someone to run off the trail! But let’s try not to complicate things too much.

Just my two cents (or twenty dollar license fee) worth.

eric

Dan H

I used to take my card to registration all the time until I figured out no one was checking anyway.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Johnson
To: David Hart
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX

The thing about requiring people to have their membership card with them at sign up is that pretty quickly everyone starts to remember it if they can't register without it.
You can bet they remember their ID for the beer garden...

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

Every revolutionary idea seems to evoke three stages of reaction...
One, it's completely impossible.
Two, it's possible, but it's not worth doing.
Three, I said it was a good idea all along.

Arthur C. Clarke
On 10/12/2010 5:05 PM, David Hart wrote:
I have been working registration for Cross Crusade and a few other 'cross races for 3 years. I was brought on for these issues. Even though I do hear my coworkers ask if the riders is a current member. It's easy to lie & it's easy to make a mistake. Why? Because it is not mandatory to carry your OBRA card. We have been asking for it but not everyone carriers it. We could have a database of all the current riders on a PC to check but with 20+ people in line, some of you would be a little upset waiting so long as we check your ID.

OBRA goes on the honor system on a few things.

I wouldn't mind using the laptop to enter riders instead of handwriting them in and checking them against the current membership file. I am not the one in charge of Crusade. I don't know how they feel about it. Another problem using a PC: only one person would do registration. The line could be long! I could see having a checkpoint at registration. Have your OBRA card handy or give your name. Check that against the current member file and then if you are current, you are allowed to pass to the registration table. If not, you are handed a membership form.

On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Mike Murray wrote:

Some of the no membership people are new people but some are people that have been around for a while, have ridden races before and likely know they are supposed to purchase a membership but just figured that they wouldn’t get caught. A bit like riding MAX without a ticket. Personally I think that after they purchase a membership they should be penalized under rule 11.2.2 and 11.4. After all they are cheaters and it is not like we have a shortage of cross riders.

Registration at races is a problem not only for the membership issue but also for the lack of uniformity, inaccuracy, lack of digital registration information, etc. Currently registration at races is staff by people provided by the race organizer. Most often they are doing registration for only that event and no others. This is in contrast to the officials who are assigned by OBRA and paid by the race organizer. Most officials do many races.

We could solve many of the registration problems by doing registration the way we do officials but this would be more costly to the race organizer since they are currently generally using unpaid volunteers and they would not be so happy to be replacing them with paid people, even with the minimal officials pay. There are currently some race organizers who bristle at even having to sell OBRA memberships. If we were to go this route we would also have to recruit a significant number of people to work for minimal pay signing people up at races. This might be an insurmountable challenge.

The bottom line is that race organizer and riders have to realize that providing a streamlined and accurate registration system improves the experience for everyone. It provides the officials and OBRA with accurate information and needed revenue. It makes it less likely that a system of assigned and paid registration staffing will need to be imposed.

I suspect that the problem of people riding without purchasing a membership is not at all a new problem. In the past when we were not able to place everyone and we were not able to compare the membership information with those places we were not likely to notice this unless it was particularly egregious. Technical advances in how we results and maintain membership information has made cheaters easier to find.

Mike Murray

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Brian Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 12:22 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX

I don't understand-- if these are new people then it seems that it's incumbent upon the registration folks to see to it that OBRA licensing requirements are fulfilled. (Frankly registration is always a little un-organized looking and holds great potential to be very confusing to any first-timer or inexperienced racer.)

If it's experienced racers, then I wonder what the heck is going on.

Although I would look to the lack of clear information available at registration. There's lots to remember and lots to forget. I had forgotten that there was a CX-only option for OBRA memberships (I've always been a full member since first joining in 2005).

Brian J.

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 08:37:35 -0700
From: "Candi Murray"
To:
Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership
Message-ID: <446A2859553B4385A5F266E0C1014481@CANDILAPTOP>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

There have been a few people that have been competing every week at
Cyclocross that have not joined the organization. This is a requirement of
participation. (and a Cyclocross only membership is only $10). I have marked
some names at registration so that it may be caught at the next race. But
frankly I am appalled. If you choose to play, please at least do the
minimum.

Candi

* * *
My father asks : "Do you live here or ride bikes?"
http://liveorridebikes.blogspot.com

My life as a Crossniac:
www.crossniacs.com

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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--
david hart
www.wenzelcoaching.com

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Mike Murray

We should make showing your membership card mandatory and there should be at least one computer at every race registration.
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: David Hart
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 17:05:48
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX

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Robert Burney

How about 2 or 3 lines for those WITH their OBRA card and one line for thhose without their card. Of course you would need to rotate the staff member out of that position pretty often due to the grumpy people in the slow line.

Robert
Sent by wireless device without spellcheck. All thumbs, literally.
O: 503.608.7813
F: 503.210.1595

-----Original Message-----
From: eric aldinger
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 5:12 PM
To: David Hart
Cc:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX

Aren't promoters liable for injuries incurred by or caused by riders
racing without an OBRA liscence? If so, they may want to improve their
registration list to include an indication that a rider is currently
liscenced to race in OBRA sanctioned events. It could save them a one
time dramatic legal expense.

- Show quoted text -

On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 5:05 PM, David Hart wrote:
> I have been working registration for Cross Crusade and a few other 'cross
> races for 3 years. I was brought on for these issues. Even though I do hear
> my coworkers ask if the riders is a current member. It's easy to lie & it's
> easy to make a mistake. Why? Because it is not mandatory to carry your OBRA
> card. We have been asking for it but not everyone carriers it. We could have
> a database of all the current riders on a PC to check but with 20+ people in
> line, some of you would be a little upset waiting so long as we check your
> ID.
> OBRA goes on the honor system on a few things.
> I wouldn't mind using the laptop to enter riders instead of handwriting them
> in and checking them against the current membership file. I am not the one
> in charge of Crusade. I don't know how they feel about it. Another problem
> using a PC: only one person would do registration. The line could be long!
> I could see having a checkpoint at registration. Have your OBRA card handy
> or give your name. Check that against the current member file and then if
> you are current, you are allowed to pass to the registration table. If not,
> you are handed a membership form.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Mike Murray wrote:
>>
>> Some of the no membership people are new people but some are people that
>> have been around for a while, have ridden races before and likely know they
>> are supposed to purchase a membership but just figured that they wouldn’t
>> get caught. A bit like riding MAX without a ticket. Personally I think
>> that after they purchase a membership they should be penalized under rule
>> 11.2.2 and 11.4. After all they are cheaters and it is not like we have a
>> shortage of cross riders.
>>
>>
>>
>> Registration at races is a problem not only for the membership issue but
>> also for the lack of uniformity, inaccuracy, lack of digital registration
>> information, etc. Currently registration at races is staff by people
>> provided by the race organizer. Most often they are doing registration for
>> only that event and no others. This is in contrast to the officials who are
>> assigned by OBRA and paid by the race organizer. Most officials do many
>> races.
>>
>>
>>
>> We could solve many of the registration problems by doing registration the
>> way we do officials but this would be more costly to the race organizer
>> since they are currently generally using unpaid volunteers and they would
>> not be so happy to be replacing them with paid people, even with the minimal
>> officials pay. There are currently some race organizers who bristle at even
>> having to sell OBRA memberships. If we were to go this route we would also
>> have to recruit a significant number of people to work for minimal pay
>> signing people up at races. This might be an insurmountable challenge.
>>
>>
>>
>> The bottom line is that race organizer and riders have to realize that
>> providing a streamlined and accurate registration system improves the
>> experience for everyone. It provides the officials and OBRA with accurate
>> information and needed revenue. It makes it less likely that a system of
>> assigned and paid registration staffing will need to be imposed.
>>
>>
>>
>> I suspect that the problem of people riding without purchasing a
>> membership is not at all a new problem. In the past when we were not able
>> to place everyone and we were not able to compare the membership information
>> with those places we were not likely to notice this unless it was
>> particularly egregious. Technical advances in how we results and maintain
>> membership information has made cheaters easier to find.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Murray
>>
>>
>>
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of Brian Johnson
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 12:22 PM
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't understand-- if these are new people then it seems that it's
>> incumbent upon the registration folks to see to it that OBRA licensing
>> requirements are fulfilled. (Frankly registration is always a little
>> un-organized looking and holds great potential to be very confusing to any
>> first-timer or inexperienced racer.)
>>
>>
>>
>> If it's experienced racers, then I wonder what the heck is going on.
>>
>>
>>
>> Although I would look to the lack of clear information available at
>> registration. There's lots to remember and lots to forget. I had forgotten
>> that there was a CX-only option for OBRA memberships (I've always been a
>> full member since first joining in 2005).
>>
>>
>>
>> Brian J.
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 08:37:35 -0700
>> From: "Candi Murray"
>> To:
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership
>> Message-ID: <446A2859553B4385A5F266E0C1014481@CANDILAPTOP>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> There have been a few people that have been competing every week at
>> Cyclocross that have not joined the organization. This is a requirement of
>> participation. (and a Cyclocross only membership is only $10). I have
>> marked
>> some names at registration so that it may be caught at the next race. But
>> frankly I am appalled. If you choose to play, please at least do the
>> minimum.
>>
>> Candi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * * *
>> My father asks : "Do you live here or ride bikes?"
>> http://liveorridebikes.blogspot.com
>>
>> My life as a Crossniac:
>> www.crossniacs.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3192 - Release Date: 10/11/10
>> 23:34:00
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> david hart
> www.wenzelcoaching.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--

Eric Aldinger

On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 5:05 PM, David Hart wrote:
> I have been working registration for Cross Crusade and a few other 'cross
> races for 3 years. I was brought on for these issues. Even though I do hear
> my coworkers ask if the riders is a current member. It's easy to lie & it's
> easy to make a mistake. Why? Because it is not mandatory to carry your OBRA
> card. We have been asking for it but not everyone carriers it. We could have
> a database of all the current riders on a PC to check but with 20+ people in
> line, some of you would be a little upset waiting so long as we check your
> ID.
> OBRA goes on the honor system on a few things.
> I wouldn't mind using the laptop to enter riders instead of handwriting them
> in and checking them against the current membership file. I am not the one
> in charge of Crusade. I don't know how they feel about it. Another problem
> using a PC: only one person would do registration. The line could be long!
>  I could see having a checkpoint at registration. Have your OBRA card handy
> or give your name. Check that against the current member file and then if
> you are current, you are allowed to pass to the registration table. If not,
> you are handed a membership form.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Mike Murray wrote:
>>
>> Some of the no membership people are new people but some are people that
>> have been around for a while, have ridden races before and likely know they
>> are supposed to purchase a membership but just figured that they wouldn’t
>> get caught.  A bit like riding MAX without a ticket.  Personally I think
>> that after they purchase a membership they should be penalized  under rule
>> 11.2.2 and 11.4.  After all they are cheaters and it is not like we have a
>> shortage of cross riders.
>>
>>
>>
>> Registration at races is a problem not only for the membership issue but
>> also for the lack of uniformity, inaccuracy, lack of digital registration
>> information, etc.  Currently registration at races is staff by people
>> provided by the race organizer.  Most often they are doing registration for
>> only that event and no others.  This is in contrast to the officials who are
>> assigned by OBRA and paid by the race organizer.  Most officials do many
>> races.
>>
>>
>>
>> We could solve many of the registration problems by doing registration the
>> way we do officials but this would be more costly to the race organizer
>> since they are currently generally using unpaid volunteers and they would
>> not be so happy to be replacing them with paid people, even with the minimal
>> officials pay.  There are currently some race organizers who bristle at even
>> having to sell OBRA memberships.  If we were to go this route we would also
>> have to recruit a significant number of people to work for minimal pay
>> signing people up at races.  This might be an insurmountable challenge.
>>
>>
>>
>> The bottom line is that race organizer and riders have to realize that
>> providing a streamlined and accurate registration system improves the
>> experience for everyone.  It provides the officials and OBRA with accurate
>> information and needed revenue.  It makes it less likely that a system of
>> assigned and paid registration staffing will need to be imposed.
>>
>>
>>
>> I suspect that the problem of people riding without purchasing a
>> membership is not at all a new problem.  In the past when we were not able
>> to place everyone and we were not able to compare the membership information
>> with those places we were not likely to notice this unless it was
>> particularly egregious.  Technical advances in how we results and maintain
>> membership information has made cheaters easier to find.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Murray
>>
>>
>>
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of Brian Johnson
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 12:22 PM
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't understand-- if these are new people then it seems that it's
>> incumbent upon the registration folks to see to it that OBRA licensing
>> requirements are fulfilled.  (Frankly registration is always a little
>> un-organized looking and holds great potential to be very confusing to any
>> first-timer or inexperienced racer.)
>>
>>
>>
>> If it's experienced racers, then I wonder what the heck is going on.
>>
>>
>>
>> Although I would look to the lack of clear information available at
>> registration. There's lots to remember and lots to forget. I had forgotten
>> that there was a CX-only option for OBRA memberships (I've always been a
>> full member since first joining in 2005).
>>
>>
>>
>> Brian J.
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 08:37:35 -0700
>> From: "Candi Murray"
>> To:
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership
>> Message-ID: <446A2859553B4385A5F266E0C1014481@CANDILAPTOP>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;        charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> There have been a few people that have been competing every week at
>> Cyclocross that have not joined the organization. This is a requirement of
>> participation. (and a Cyclocross only membership is only $10). I have
>> marked
>> some names at registration so that it may be caught at the next race. But
>> frankly I am appalled. If you choose to play, please at least do the
>> minimum.
>>
>> Candi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * * *
>> My father asks : "Do you live here or ride bikes?"
>> http://liveorridebikes.blogspot.com
>>
>> My life as a Crossniac:
>> www.crossniacs.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3192 - Release Date: 10/11/10
>> 23:34:00
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> david hart
> www.wenzelcoaching.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Eric Aldinger
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halfwheelhill@yahoo.com

When you go to larger USCF races you have to have your card with you at registration or you will most likely not be racing. Why is it so difficult to make people responsible for themselves and having their registration card with them. Here's what you do. Put out an email that sais," If you do not have your OBRA membership card, or proof of it, at registration you will not be allowed to, race no exceptions." There you go. Problem solved.

Your welcome,
Scott
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: eric aldinger
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 17:12:58
To: David Hart
Cc:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX

Aren't promoters liable for injuries incurred by or caused by riders
racing without an OBRA liscence? If so, they may want to improve their
registration list to include an indication that a rider is currently
liscenced to race in OBRA sanctioned events. It could save them a one
time dramatic legal expense.

- Show quoted text -

On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 5:05 PM, David Hart wrote:
> I have been working registration for Cross Crusade and a few other 'cross
> races for 3 years. I was brought on for these issues. Even though I do hear
> my coworkers ask if the riders is a current member. It's easy to lie & it's
> easy to make a mistake. Why? Because it is not mandatory to carry your OBRA
> card. We have been asking for it but not everyone carriers it. We could have
> a database of all the current riders on a PC to check but with 20+ people in
> line, some of you would be a little upset waiting so long as we check your
> ID.
> OBRA goes on the honor system on a few things.
> I wouldn't mind using the laptop to enter riders instead of handwriting them
> in and checking them against the current membership file. I am not the one
> in charge of Crusade. I don't know how they feel about it. Another problem
> using a PC: only one person would do registration. The line could be long!
> I could see having a checkpoint at registration. Have your OBRA card handy
> or give your name. Check that against the current member file and then if
> you are current, you are allowed to pass to the registration table. If not,
> you are handed a membership form.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Mike Murray wrote:
>>
>> Some of the no membership people are new people but some are people that
>> have been around for a while, have ridden races before and likely know they
>> are supposed to purchase a membership but just figured that they wouldn’t
>> get caught. A bit like riding MAX without a ticket. Personally I think
>> that after they purchase a membership they should be penalized under rule
>> 11.2.2 and 11.4. After all they are cheaters and it is not like we have a
>> shortage of cross riders.
>>
>>
>>
>> Registration at races is a problem not only for the membership issue but
>> also for the lack of uniformity, inaccuracy, lack of digital registration
>> information, etc. Currently registration at races is staff by people
>> provided by the race organizer. Most often they are doing registration for
>> only that event and no others. This is in contrast to the officials who are
>> assigned by OBRA and paid by the race organizer. Most officials do many
>> races.
>>
>>
>>
>> We could solve many of the registration problems by doing registration the
>> way we do officials but this would be more costly to the race organizer
>> since they are currently generally using unpaid volunteers and they would
>> not be so happy to be replacing them with paid people, even with the minimal
>> officials pay. There are currently some race organizers who bristle at even
>> having to sell OBRA memberships. If we were to go this route we would also
>> have to recruit a significant number of people to work for minimal pay
>> signing people up at races. This might be an insurmountable challenge.
>>
>>
>>
>> The bottom line is that race organizer and riders have to realize that
>> providing a streamlined and accurate registration system improves the
>> experience for everyone. It provides the officials and OBRA with accurate
>> information and needed revenue. It makes it less likely that a system of
>> assigned and paid registration staffing will need to be imposed.
>>
>>
>>
>> I suspect that the problem of people riding without purchasing a
>> membership is not at all a new problem. In the past when we were not able
>> to place everyone and we were not able to compare the membership information
>> with those places we were not likely to notice this unless it was
>> particularly egregious. Technical advances in how we results and maintain
>> membership information has made cheaters easier to find.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Murray
>>
>>
>>
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of Brian Johnson
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 12:22 PM
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't understand-- if these are new people then it seems that it's
>> incumbent upon the registration folks to see to it that OBRA licensing
>> requirements are fulfilled. (Frankly registration is always a little
>> un-organized looking and holds great potential to be very confusing to any
>> first-timer or inexperienced racer.)
>>
>>
>>
>> If it's experienced racers, then I wonder what the heck is going on.
>>
>>
>>
>> Although I would look to the lack of clear information available at
>> registration. There's lots to remember and lots to forget. I had forgotten
>> that there was a CX-only option for OBRA memberships (I've always been a
>> full member since first joining in 2005).
>>
>>
>>
>> Brian J.
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 08:37:35 -0700
>> From: "Candi Murray"
>> To:
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership
>> Message-ID: <446A2859553B4385A5F266E0C1014481@CANDILAPTOP>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> There have been a few people that have been competing every week at
>> Cyclocross that have not joined the organization. This is a requirement of
>> participation. (and a Cyclocross only membership is only $10). I have
>> marked
>> some names at registration so that it may be caught at the next race. But
>> frankly I am appalled. If you choose to play, please at least do the
>> minimum.
>>
>> Candi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * * *
>> My father asks : "Do you live here or ride bikes?"
>> http://liveorridebikes.blogspot.com
>>
>> My life as a Crossniac:
>> www.crossniacs.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3192 - Release Date: 10/11/10
>> 23:34:00
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> david hart
> www.wenzelcoaching.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--

Eric Aldinger

On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 5:05 PM, David Hart wrote:
> I have been working registration for Cross Crusade and a few other 'cross
> races for 3 years. I was brought on for these issues. Even though I do hear
> my coworkers ask if the riders is a current member. It's easy to lie & it's
> easy to make a mistake. Why? Because it is not mandatory to carry your OBRA
> card. We have been asking for it but not everyone carriers it. We could have
> a database of all the current riders on a PC to check but with 20+ people in
> line, some of you would be a little upset waiting so long as we check your
> ID.
> OBRA goes on the honor system on a few things.
> I wouldn't mind using the laptop to enter riders instead of handwriting them
> in and checking them against the current membership file. I am not the one
> in charge of Crusade. I don't know how they feel about it. Another problem
> using a PC: only one person would do registration. The line could be long!
>  I could see having a checkpoint at registration. Have your OBRA card handy
> or give your name. Check that against the current member file and then if
> you are current, you are allowed to pass to the registration table. If not,
> you are handed a membership form.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Mike Murray wrote:
>>
>> Some of the no membership people are new people but some are people that
>> have been around for a while, have ridden races before and likely know they
>> are supposed to purchase a membership but just figured that they wouldn’t
>> get caught.  A bit like riding MAX without a ticket.  Personally I think
>> that after they purchase a membership they should be penalized  under rule
>> 11.2.2 and 11.4.  After all they are cheaters and it is not like we have a
>> shortage of cross riders.
>>
>>
>>
>> Registration at races is a problem not only for the membership issue but
>> also for the lack of uniformity, inaccuracy, lack of digital registration
>> information, etc.  Currently registration at races is staff by people
>> provided by the race organizer.  Most often they are doing registration for
>> only that event and no others.  This is in contrast to the officials who are
>> assigned by OBRA and paid by the race organizer.  Most officials do many
>> races.
>>
>>
>>
>> We could solve many of the registration problems by doing registration the
>> way we do officials but this would be more costly to the race organizer
>> since they are currently generally using unpaid volunteers and they would
>> not be so happy to be replacing them with paid people, even with the minimal
>> officials pay.  There are currently some race organizers who bristle at even
>> having to sell OBRA memberships.  If we were to go this route we would also
>> have to recruit a significant number of people to work for minimal pay
>> signing people up at races.  This might be an insurmountable challenge.
>>
>>
>>
>> The bottom line is that race organizer and riders have to realize that
>> providing a streamlined and accurate registration system improves the
>> experience for everyone.  It provides the officials and OBRA with accurate
>> information and needed revenue.  It makes it less likely that a system of
>> assigned and paid registration staffing will need to be imposed.
>>
>>
>>
>> I suspect that the problem of people riding without purchasing a
>> membership is not at all a new problem.  In the past when we were not able
>> to place everyone and we were not able to compare the membership information
>> with those places we were not likely to notice this unless it was
>> particularly egregious.  Technical advances in how we results and maintain
>> membership information has made cheaters easier to find.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Murray
>>
>>
>>
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of Brian Johnson
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 12:22 PM
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't understand-- if these are new people then it seems that it's
>> incumbent upon the registration folks to see to it that OBRA licensing
>> requirements are fulfilled.  (Frankly registration is always a little
>> un-organized looking and holds great potential to be very confusing to any
>> first-timer or inexperienced racer.)
>>
>>
>>
>> If it's experienced racers, then I wonder what the heck is going on.
>>
>>
>>
>> Although I would look to the lack of clear information available at
>> registration. There's lots to remember and lots to forget. I had forgotten
>> that there was a CX-only option for OBRA memberships (I've always been a
>> full member since first joining in 2005).
>>
>>
>>
>> Brian J.
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 08:37:35 -0700
>> From: "Candi Murray"
>> To:
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership
>> Message-ID: <446A2859553B4385A5F266E0C1014481@CANDILAPTOP>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;        charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> There have been a few people that have been competing every week at
>> Cyclocross that have not joined the organization. This is a requirement of
>> participation. (and a Cyclocross only membership is only $10). I have
>> marked
>> some names at registration so that it may be caught at the next race. But
>> frankly I am appalled. If you choose to play, please at least do the
>> minimum.
>>
>> Candi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * * *
>> My father asks : "Do you live here or ride bikes?"
>> http://liveorridebikes.blogspot.com
>>
>> My life as a Crossniac:
>> www.crossniacs.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3192 - Release Date: 10/11/10
>> 23:34:00
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> david hart
> www.wenzelcoaching.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Eric Aldinger
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

eric aldinger

Aren't promoters liable for injuries incurred by or caused by riders
racing without an OBRA liscence? If so, they may want to improve their
registration list to include an indication that a rider is currently
liscenced to race in OBRA sanctioned events. It could save them a one
time dramatic legal expense.

- Show quoted text -

On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 5:05 PM, David Hart wrote:
> I have been working registration for Cross Crusade and a few other 'cross
> races for 3 years. I was brought on for these issues. Even though I do hear
> my coworkers ask if the riders is a current member. It's easy to lie & it's
> easy to make a mistake. Why? Because it is not mandatory to carry your OBRA
> card. We have been asking for it but not everyone carriers it. We could have
> a database of all the current riders on a PC to check but with 20+ people in
> line, some of you would be a little upset waiting so long as we check your
> ID.
> OBRA goes on the honor system on a few things.
> I wouldn't mind using the laptop to enter riders instead of handwriting them
> in and checking them against the current membership file. I am not the one
> in charge of Crusade. I don't know how they feel about it. Another problem
> using a PC: only one person would do registration. The line could be long!
> I could see having a checkpoint at registration. Have your OBRA card handy
> or give your name. Check that against the current member file and then if
> you are current, you are allowed to pass to the registration table. If not,
> you are handed a membership form.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Mike Murray wrote:
>>
>> Some of the no membership people are new people but some are people that
>> have been around for a while, have ridden races before and likely know they
>> are supposed to purchase a membership but just figured that they wouldn’t
>> get caught. A bit like riding MAX without a ticket. Personally I think
>> that after they purchase a membership they should be penalized under rule
>> 11.2.2 and 11.4. After all they are cheaters and it is not like we have a
>> shortage of cross riders.
>>
>>
>>
>> Registration at races is a problem not only for the membership issue but
>> also for the lack of uniformity, inaccuracy, lack of digital registration
>> information, etc. Currently registration at races is staff by people
>> provided by the race organizer. Most often they are doing registration for
>> only that event and no others. This is in contrast to the officials who are
>> assigned by OBRA and paid by the race organizer. Most officials do many
>> races.
>>
>>
>>
>> We could solve many of the registration problems by doing registration the
>> way we do officials but this would be more costly to the race organizer
>> since they are currently generally using unpaid volunteers and they would
>> not be so happy to be replacing them with paid people, even with the minimal
>> officials pay. There are currently some race organizers who bristle at even
>> having to sell OBRA memberships. If we were to go this route we would also
>> have to recruit a significant number of people to work for minimal pay
>> signing people up at races. This might be an insurmountable challenge.
>>
>>
>>
>> The bottom line is that race organizer and riders have to realize that
>> providing a streamlined and accurate registration system improves the
>> experience for everyone. It provides the officials and OBRA with accurate
>> information and needed revenue. It makes it less likely that a system of
>> assigned and paid registration staffing will need to be imposed.
>>
>>
>>
>> I suspect that the problem of people riding without purchasing a
>> membership is not at all a new problem. In the past when we were not able
>> to place everyone and we were not able to compare the membership information
>> with those places we were not likely to notice this unless it was
>> particularly egregious. Technical advances in how we results and maintain
>> membership information has made cheaters easier to find.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Murray
>>
>>
>>
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of Brian Johnson
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 12:22 PM
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't understand-- if these are new people then it seems that it's
>> incumbent upon the registration folks to see to it that OBRA licensing
>> requirements are fulfilled. (Frankly registration is always a little
>> un-organized looking and holds great potential to be very confusing to any
>> first-timer or inexperienced racer.)
>>
>>
>>
>> If it's experienced racers, then I wonder what the heck is going on.
>>
>>
>>
>> Although I would look to the lack of clear information available at
>> registration. There's lots to remember and lots to forget. I had forgotten
>> that there was a CX-only option for OBRA memberships (I've always been a
>> full member since first joining in 2005).
>>
>>
>>
>> Brian J.
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 08:37:35 -0700
>> From: "Candi Murray"
>> To:
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership
>> Message-ID: <446A2859553B4385A5F266E0C1014481@CANDILAPTOP>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> There have been a few people that have been competing every week at
>> Cyclocross that have not joined the organization. This is a requirement of
>> participation. (and a Cyclocross only membership is only $10). I have
>> marked
>> some names at registration so that it may be caught at the next race. But
>> frankly I am appalled. If you choose to play, please at least do the
>> minimum.
>>
>> Candi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * * *
>> My father asks : "Do you live here or ride bikes?"
>> http://liveorridebikes.blogspot.com
>>
>> My life as a Crossniac:
>> www.crossniacs.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3192 - Release Date: 10/11/10
>> 23:34:00
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> david hart
> www.wenzelcoaching.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--

Eric Aldinger

On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 5:05 PM, David Hart wrote:
> I have been working registration for Cross Crusade and a few other 'cross
> races for 3 years. I was brought on for these issues. Even though I do hear
> my coworkers ask if the riders is a current member. It's easy to lie & it's
> easy to make a mistake. Why? Because it is not mandatory to carry your OBRA
> card. We have been asking for it but not everyone carriers it. We could have
> a database of all the current riders on a PC to check but with 20+ people in
> line, some of you would be a little upset waiting so long as we check your
> ID.
> OBRA goes on the honor system on a few things.
> I wouldn't mind using the laptop to enter riders instead of handwriting them
> in and checking them against the current membership file. I am not the one
> in charge of Crusade. I don't know how they feel about it. Another problem
> using a PC: only one person would do registration. The line could be long!
>  I could see having a checkpoint at registration. Have your OBRA card handy
> or give your name. Check that against the current member file and then if
> you are current, you are allowed to pass to the registration table. If not,
> you are handed a membership form.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Mike Murray wrote:
>>
>> Some of the no membership people are new people but some are people that
>> have been around for a while, have ridden races before and likely know they
>> are supposed to purchase a membership but just figured that they wouldn’t
>> get caught.  A bit like riding MAX without a ticket.  Personally I think
>> that after they purchase a membership they should be penalized  under rule
>> 11.2.2 and 11.4.  After all they are cheaters and it is not like we have a
>> shortage of cross riders.
>>
>>
>>
>> Registration at races is a problem not only for the membership issue but
>> also for the lack of uniformity, inaccuracy, lack of digital registration
>> information, etc.  Currently registration at races is staff by people
>> provided by the race organizer.  Most often they are doing registration for
>> only that event and no others.  This is in contrast to the officials who are
>> assigned by OBRA and paid by the race organizer.  Most officials do many
>> races.
>>
>>
>>
>> We could solve many of the registration problems by doing registration the
>> way we do officials but this would be more costly to the race organizer
>> since they are currently generally using unpaid volunteers and they would
>> not be so happy to be replacing them with paid people, even with the minimal
>> officials pay.  There are currently some race organizers who bristle at even
>> having to sell OBRA memberships.  If we were to go this route we would also
>> have to recruit a significant number of people to work for minimal pay
>> signing people up at races.  This might be an insurmountable challenge.
>>
>>
>>
>> The bottom line is that race organizer and riders have to realize that
>> providing a streamlined and accurate registration system improves the
>> experience for everyone.  It provides the officials and OBRA with accurate
>> information and needed revenue.  It makes it less likely that a system of
>> assigned and paid registration staffing will need to be imposed.
>>
>>
>>
>> I suspect that the problem of people riding without purchasing a
>> membership is not at all a new problem.  In the past when we were not able
>> to place everyone and we were not able to compare the membership information
>> with those places we were not likely to notice this unless it was
>> particularly egregious.  Technical advances in how we results and maintain
>> membership information has made cheaters easier to find.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Murray
>>
>>
>>
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of Brian Johnson
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 12:22 PM
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't understand-- if these are new people then it seems that it's
>> incumbent upon the registration folks to see to it that OBRA licensing
>> requirements are fulfilled.  (Frankly registration is always a little
>> un-organized looking and holds great potential to be very confusing to any
>> first-timer or inexperienced racer.)
>>
>>
>>
>> If it's experienced racers, then I wonder what the heck is going on.
>>
>>
>>
>> Although I would look to the lack of clear information available at
>> registration. There's lots to remember and lots to forget. I had forgotten
>> that there was a CX-only option for OBRA memberships (I've always been a
>> full member since first joining in 2005).
>>
>>
>>
>> Brian J.
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 08:37:35 -0700
>> From: "Candi Murray"
>> To:
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership
>> Message-ID: <446A2859553B4385A5F266E0C1014481@CANDILAPTOP>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;        charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> There have been a few people that have been competing every week at
>> Cyclocross that have not joined the organization. This is a requirement of
>> participation. (and a Cyclocross only membership is only $10). I have
>> marked
>> some names at registration so that it may be caught at the next race. But
>> frankly I am appalled. If you choose to play, please at least do the
>> minimum.
>>
>> Candi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * * *
>> My father asks : "Do you live here or ride bikes?"
>> http://liveorridebikes.blogspot.com
>>
>> My life as a Crossniac:
>> www.crossniacs.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3192 - Release Date: 10/11/10
>> 23:34:00
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> david hart
> www.wenzelcoaching.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Eric Aldinger

Rick Johnson

The thing about requiring people to have their membership card with
them at sign up is that pretty quickly everyone starts to remember
it if they can't register without it.

You can bet they remember their ID for the beer garden...

Rick Johnson

Bend, Oregon

Every revolutionary idea seems to evoke three stages of reaction...

One, it's completely impossible. 

Two, it's possible, but it's not worth doing. 

Three, I said it was a good idea all along.

Arthur C. Clarke

I have been working registration for Cross Crusade and
a few other 'cross races for 3 years. I was brought on for these
issues. Even though I do hear my coworkers ask if the riders is a
current member. It's easy to lie & it's easy to make a
mistake. Why? Because it is not mandatory to carry your OBRA card.
We have been asking for it but not everyone carriers it. We could
have a database of all the current riders on a PC to check but
with 20+ people in line, some of you would be a little upset
waiting so long as we check your ID.

OBRA goes on the honor system on a few things. 

I wouldn't mind using the laptop to enter riders instead of
handwriting them in and checking them against the current
membership file. I am not the one in charge of Crusade. I don't
know how they feel about it. Another problem using a PC: only
one person would do registration. The line could be long!  I
could see having a checkpoint at registration. Have your OBRA
card handy or give your name. Check that against the current
member file and then if you are current, you are allowed to pass
to the registration table. If not, you are handed a membership
form.

On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Mike
Murray <mike.murray@obra.org>
wrote:

Some of the no membership
people are new people but some are
people that have been around for a while, have
ridden races before and likely know
they are supposed to purchase a membership but just
figured that they wouldn’t
get caught.  A bit like riding MAX without a
ticket.  Personally I
think that after they purchase a membership they
should be penalized  under
rule 11.2.2 and 11.4.  After all they are cheaters
and it is not like we
have a shortage of cross riders.

 

Registration at races is a
problem not only for the membership
issue but also for the lack of uniformity,
inaccuracy, lack of digital
registration information, etc.  Currently
registration at races is staff
by people provided by the race organizer.  Most
often they are doing
registration for only that event and no others. 
This is in contrast to
the officials who are assigned by OBRA and paid by
the race organizer. 
Most officials do many races. 

 

We could solve many of the
registration problems by doing
registration the way we do officials but this would
be more costly to the race
organizer since they are currently generally using
unpaid volunteers and they
would not be so happy to be replacing them with paid
people, even with the minimal
officials pay.  There are currently some race
organizers who bristle at
even having to sell OBRA memberships.  If we were to
go this route we
would also have to recruit a significant number of
people to work for minimal
pay signing people up at races.  This might be an
insurmountable
challenge.

 

The bottom line is that
race organizer and riders have to
realize that providing a streamlined and accurate
registration system improves
the experience for everyone.  It provides the
officials and OBRA with
accurate information and needed revenue.  It makes
it less likely that a
system of assigned and paid registration staffing
will need to be imposed.

 

I suspect that the problem
of people riding without purchasing a
membership is not at all a new problem.  In the past
when we were not able
to place everyone and we were not able to compare
the membership information
with those places we were not likely to notice this
unless it was particularly egregious. 
Technical advances in how we results and maintain
membership information has
made cheaters easier to find.

 

Mike Murray

 

From:
obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
On Behalf Of Brian
Johnson

Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 12:22 PM

To: obra@list.obra.org

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership
& CX

 

I don't understand-- if these are
new people then it seems
that it's incumbent upon the registration folks to
see to it that OBRA
licensing requirements are fulfilled.  (Frankly
registration is always a
little un-organized looking and holds great
potential to be very confusing to
any first-timer or inexperienced racer.) 

 

If it's experienced racers, then
I wonder what the heck is
going on.

 

Although I would look to the lack
of clear information
available at registration. There's lots to remember
and lots to forget. I had
forgotten that there was a CX-only option for OBRA
memberships (I've always
been a full member since first joining in 2005).

 

Brian J.

Message: 1

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 08:37:35 -0700

From: "Candi Murray" <cmurray@obra.org>

To: <obra@list.obra.org>

Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership

Message-ID:
<446A2859553B4385A5F266E0C1014481@CANDILAPTOP>

Content-Type: text/plain;        charset="us-ascii"



There have been a few people that have been
competing every week at

Cyclocross that have not joined the organization.
This is a requirement of

participation. (and a Cyclocross only membership is
only $10). I have marked

some names at registration so that it may be caught
at the next race. But

frankly I am appalled. If you choose to play, please
at least do the

minimum.



Candi 

 

 

* * *

My father asks : "Do you live here or
ride bikes?"

http://liveorridebikes.blogspot.com



My life as a Crossniac:

www.crossniacs.com

 

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found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

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23:34:00

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--

david hart

www.wenzelcoaching.com

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David Hart

I have been working registration for Cross Crusade and a few other 'cross
races for 3 years. I was brought on for these issues. Even though I do hear
my coworkers ask if the riders is a current member. It's easy to lie & it's
easy to make a mistake. Why? Because it is not mandatory to carry your OBRA
card. We have been asking for it but not everyone carriers it. We could have
a database of all the current riders on a PC to check but with 20+ people in
line, some of you would be a little upset waiting so long as we check your
ID.

OBRA goes on the honor system on a few things.

I wouldn't mind using the laptop to enter riders instead of handwriting them
in and checking them against the current membership file. I am not the one
in charge of Crusade. I don't know how they feel about it. Another problem
using a PC: only one person would do registration. The line could be long!
I could see having a checkpoint at registration. Have your OBRA card handy
or give your name. Check that against the current member file and then if
you are current, you are allowed to pass to the registration table. If not,
you are handed a membership form.

On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Mike Murray wrote:

> Some of the no membership people are new people but some are people that
> have been around for a while, have ridden races before and likely know they
> are supposed to purchase a membership but just figured that they wouldn’t
> get caught. A bit like riding MAX without a ticket. Personally I think
> that after they purchase a membership they should be penalized under rule
> 11.2.2 and 11.4. After all they are cheaters and it is not like we have a
> shortage of cross riders.
>
>
>
> Registration at races is a problem not only for the membership issue but
> also for the lack of uniformity, inaccuracy, lack of digital registration
> information, etc. Currently registration at races is staff by people
> provided by the race organizer. Most often they are doing registration for
> only that event and no others. This is in contrast to the officials who are
> assigned by OBRA and paid by the race organizer. Most officials do many
> races.
>
>
>
> We could solve many of the registration problems by doing registration the
> way we do officials but this would be more costly to the race organizer
> since they are currently generally using unpaid volunteers and they would
> not be so happy to be replacing them with paid people, even with the minimal
> officials pay. There are currently some race organizers who bristle at even
> having to sell OBRA memberships. If we were to go this route we would also
> have to recruit a significant number of people to work for minimal pay
> signing people up at races. This might be an insurmountable challenge.
>
>
>
> The bottom line is that race organizer and riders have to realize that
> providing a streamlined and accurate registration system improves the
> experience for everyone. It provides the officials and OBRA with accurate
> information and needed revenue. It makes it less likely that a system of
> assigned and paid registration staffing will need to be imposed.
>
>
>
> I suspect that the problem of people riding without purchasing a membership
> is not at all a new problem. In the past when we were not able to place
> everyone and we were not able to compare the membership information with
> those places we were not likely to notice this unless it was particularly
> egregious. Technical advances in how we results and maintain membership
> information has made cheaters easier to find.
>
>
>
> Mike Murray
>
>
>
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Brian Johnson
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 12, 2010 12:22 PM
> *To:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX
>
>
>
> I don't understand-- if these are new people then it seems that it's
> incumbent upon the registration folks to see to it that OBRA licensing
> requirements are fulfilled. (Frankly registration is always a little
> un-organized looking and holds great potential to be very confusing to any
> first-timer or inexperienced racer.)
>
>
>
> If it's experienced racers, then I wonder what the heck is going on.
>
>
>
> Although I would look to the lack of clear information available at
> registration. There's lots to remember and lots to forget. I had forgotten
> that there was a CX-only option for OBRA memberships (I've always been a
> full member since first joining in 2005).
>
>
>
> Brian J.
>
>
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 08:37:35 -0700
> From: "Candi Murray"
> To:
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership
> Message-ID: <446A2859553B4385A5F266E0C1014481@CANDILAPTOP>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> There have been a few people that have been competing every week at
> Cyclocross that have not joined the organization. This is a requirement of
> participation. (and a Cyclocross only membership is only $10). I have
> marked
> some names at registration so that it may be caught at the next race. But
> frankly I am appalled. If you choose to play, please at least do the
> minimum.
>
> Candi
>
>
>
>
>
> * * *
> My father asks : "Do you live here or ride bikes?"
> http://liveorridebikes.blogspot.com
>
> My life as a Crossniac:
> www.crossniacs.com
>
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3192 - Release Date: 10/11/10
> 23:34:00
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
david hart
www.wenzelcoaching.com

Mike Murray

Some of the no membership people are new people but some are people that
have been around for a while, have ridden races before and likely know they
are supposed to purchase a membership but just figured that they wouldn't
get caught. A bit like riding MAX without a ticket. Personally I think
that after they purchase a membership they should be penalized under rule
11.2.2 and 11.4. After all they are cheaters and it is not like we have a
shortage of cross riders.

Registration at races is a problem not only for the membership issue but
also for the lack of uniformity, inaccuracy, lack of digital registration
information, etc. Currently registration at races is staff by people
provided by the race organizer. Most often they are doing registration for
only that event and no others. This is in contrast to the officials who are
assigned by OBRA and paid by the race organizer. Most officials do many
races.

We could solve many of the registration problems by doing registration the
way we do officials but this would be more costly to the race organizer
since they are currently generally using unpaid volunteers and they would
not be so happy to be replacing them with paid people, even with the minimal
officials pay. There are currently some race organizers who bristle at even
having to sell OBRA memberships. If we were to go this route we would also
have to recruit a significant number of people to work for minimal pay
signing people up at races. This might be an insurmountable challenge.

The bottom line is that race organizer and riders have to realize that
providing a streamlined and accurate registration system improves the
experience for everyone. It provides the officials and OBRA with accurate
information and needed revenue. It makes it less likely that a system of
assigned and paid registration staffing will need to be imposed.

I suspect that the problem of people riding without purchasing a membership
is not at all a new problem. In the past when we were not able to place
everyone and we were not able to compare the membership information with
those places we were not likely to notice this unless it was particularly
egregious. Technical advances in how we results and maintain membership
information has made cheaters easier to find.

Mike Murray

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Brian Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 12:22 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership & CX

I don't understand-- if these are new people then it seems that it's
incumbent upon the registration folks to see to it that OBRA licensing
requirements are fulfilled. (Frankly registration is always a little
un-organized looking and holds great potential to be very confusing to any
first-timer or inexperienced racer.)

If it's experienced racers, then I wonder what the heck is going on.

Although I would look to the lack of clear information available at
registration. There's lots to remember and lots to forget. I had forgotten
that there was a CX-only option for OBRA memberships (I've always been a
full member since first joining in 2005).

Brian J.

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 08:37:35 -0700
From: "Candi Murray"
To:
Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership
Message-ID: <446A2859553B4385A5F266E0C1014481@CANDILAPTOP>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

There have been a few people that have been competing every week at
Cyclocross that have not joined the organization. This is a requirement of
participation. (and a Cyclocross only membership is only $10). I have marked
some names at registration so that it may be caught at the next race. But
frankly I am appalled. If you choose to play, please at least do the
minimum.

Candi

* * *
My father asks : "Do you live here or ride bikes?"
http://liveorridebikes.blogspot.com

My life as a Crossniac:
www.crossniacs.com

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3192 - Release Date: 10/11/10
23:34:00

Brian Johnson

I don't understand-- if these are new people then it seems that it's incumbent upon the registration folks to see to it that OBRA licensing requirements are fulfilled. (Frankly registration is always a little un-organized looking and holds great potential to be very confusing to any first-timer or inexperienced racer.)

If it's experienced racers, then I wonder what the heck is going on.

Although I would look to the lack of clear information available at registration. There's lots to remember and lots to forget. I had forgotten that there was a CX-only option for OBRA memberships (I've always been a full member since first joining in 2005).

Brian J.

> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 08:37:35 -0700
> From: "Candi Murray"
> To:
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Membership
> Message-ID: <446A2859553B4385A5F266E0C1014481@CANDILAPTOP>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> There have been a few people that have been competing every week at
> Cyclocross that have not joined the organization. This is a requirement of
> participation. (and a Cyclocross only membership is only $10). I have marked
> some names at registration so that it may be caught at the next race. But
> frankly I am appalled. If you choose to play, please at least do the
> minimum.
>
> Candi

* * *
My father asks : "Do you live here or ride bikes?"
http://liveorridebikes.blogspot.com

My life as a Crossniac:
www.crossniacs.com