OBRA: OBRA Chat: Coker sandbagging in CX

David Rosen

2010-10-24

Look, for the love of someone, can we please drop this topic? Seriously. He can race wherever he wants and that is that. Let it go.

It is an open category. Period. End of story. If you don't like it, tough. If anyone else doesn't like it... Tough.
------Original Message------
From: toni
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
To: OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Coker sandbagging in CX
Sent: Oct 24, 2010 6:23 PM

look folks.

i don't think the guy is questioning aaron's right to race clydesdales, it's whether it is right, and that is hard to define.

i can see both sides, but to me it boils down to one thing. why are you racing in a lower category?

and make no mistake, clydes is a lower category. look at the lap times. period.

say, for instance, that you are a cat 1 on the road, but you are getting older and cannot keep up. then, it's legit to go to masters. but...if you're top ten in cat1 but just can't win, then it's weak to drop to masters, just for the wins.

get it?

in my opinion, the only time you should race in a less competitive category is when you can't hang in the one you are in.

so, if aaron is always mid pack in Bs, and then he's always finishing 1 minute up on everyone in clydes, well...you do the math as to why he's there.
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Dave

toni

2010-10-24

look folks.

i don't think the guy is questioning aaron's right to race clydesdales, it's whether it is right, and that is hard to define.

i can see both sides, but to me it boils down to one thing. why are you racing in a lower category?

and make no mistake, clydes is a lower category. look at the lap times. period.

say, for instance, that you are a cat 1 on the road, but you are getting older and cannot keep up. then, it's legit to go to masters. but...if you're top ten in cat1 but just can't win, then it's weak to drop to masters, just for the wins.

get it?

in my opinion, the only time you should race in a less competitive category is when you can't hang in the one you are in.

so, if aaron is always mid pack in Bs, and then he's always finishing 1 minute up on everyone in clydes, well...you do the math as to why he's there.

Amy Shepard

2010-10-24

Is there a prize for the Clydesdale overall win? didn't see anything on the list.. and if there isn't, I think it's hardly sandbagging. I doubt his good results in the clydes category are going to gain him any profit or notoriety - looks like he's out to have fun. I can only imagine that being big in cross races is like being big in a hilly road race and that Coker is just like you - tired of getting beat by little skinny guys.

Adding BMI, height/weight proportions, etc would just be confusing. Seems to me the focus should be on personal improvement - just get better and have fun.

John Bravard

2010-10-24

Are we done this, yet?

On Oct 24, 2010, at 9:47, toni wrote:

> straight up:
>
> i echo steven beardsley's response: "this is racing"
>
> however, i wonder if beardsley would like it if, say, marck cavendish lived nearby and came out to all the crits and track events and steven was effectively racing for 2nd place.
>
> there's obviously no way he could just "get faster" if he didn't like cav beating him.
>
> i say: racing is racing -- challenge yourself. race in the highest category that you can be competitive in. racing should be a challenge. if you want to get easy wins and dominate, and it's within the rules, then whatever...just don't expect too many props for SANDBAGGING.
>
> to mr. lopez: get in the race. don't whine and worry about someone who shouldn't be in your cat. let his conscience deal with that.
>
> to mr. coker: get the heck out of the clydesdales. if you don't like getting beat in the B's..."just get faster".
>
> if you want an easy ride, don't race. if you want to race, don't expect an easy ride.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

David Rosen

2010-10-24

I agree with Joe and to quote a friend of mine "they're open categories! Get over it!"

Aaron has the right to race where, when, and how he wants. Period. To compare this situation to Cav vs. Steve at the track is ludicrous. None of us are getting paid for any of this. Go out and have fun! Get serious for the track or for road or even for STXC, but the core ideal of Pacific NW CX is about fun. When I finally accepted that my chances of winning a CX Crusade race were slim to none because I was in the 2nd to last group I started focusing on the beer number. My point is: CX is fun and go out and have a good time. Don't worry about others, just the rider in front of you and the one behind you.

Please let this thread die a quick death so we can move onto the next topic: "Your pet in a Halloween costume- cute or humiliating for your pet?"

Ok- rant over...
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 09:58:48
To: toni
Cc:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Coker sandbagging in CX

~sigh~

Is this the new 'Masters Belly-ache' thread?

Yes, there will ALWAYS be riders who in ones one view are sand-bagging.

Yes, you will always have riders/racers who are beneath you interms of
skill and/or ability.
Yes, that is why it is called bike racing.
Yes, that is why we ride/train to do better.

If you cant handle any of the above, then it is time to chose a
different sport. Not everyone can be a
a World/Tour/OBRA/National Champ. All you can do is train and ride and
strive for the best you can be
on any given day. If it means you come in first, GREAT! Congrats, you
earned it!

If it means you come in DFL, then it wasnt your day. As long as you had
fun and spent time with your
friends (and I consider everyone in OBRA/WSBA my friend), then it was a
good day!

Joe

On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 09:47:26 -0700, toni
wrote:
> straight up:
>
> i echo steven beardsley's response: "this is racing"
>
> however, i wonder if beardsley would like it if, say, marck cavendish
> lived nearby and came out to all the crits and track events and steven
> was effectively racing for 2nd place.
>
> there's obviously no way he could just "get faster" if he didn't like
> cav beating him.
>
> i say: racing is racing -- challenge yourself. race in the highest
> category that you can be competitive in. racing should be a challenge.
> if you want to get easy wins and dominate, and it's within the rules,
> then whatever...just don't expect too many props for SANDBAGGING.
>
> to mr. lopez: get in the race. don't whine and worry about someone
> who shouldn't be in your cat. let his conscience deal with that.
>
> to mr. coker: get the heck out of the clydesdales. if you don't like
> getting beat in the B's..."just get faster".
>
> if you want an easy ride, don't race. if you want to race, don't
> expect an easy ride.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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joec@aracnet.com

2010-10-24

~sigh~

Is this the new 'Masters Belly-ache' thread?

Yes, there will ALWAYS be riders who in ones one view are sand-bagging.

Yes, you will always have riders/racers who are beneath you interms of
skill and/or ability.
Yes, that is why it is called bike racing.
Yes, that is why we ride/train to do better.

If you cant handle any of the above, then it is time to chose a
different sport. Not everyone can be a
a World/Tour/OBRA/National Champ. All you can do is train and ride and
strive for the best you can be
on any given day. If it means you come in first, GREAT! Congrats, you
earned it!

If it means you come in DFL, then it wasnt your day. As long as you had
fun and spent time with your
friends (and I consider everyone in OBRA/WSBA my friend), then it was a
good day!

Joe

On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 09:47:26 -0700, toni
wrote:
> straight up:
>
> i echo steven beardsley's response: "this is racing"
>
> however, i wonder if beardsley would like it if, say, marck cavendish
> lived nearby and came out to all the crits and track events and steven
> was effectively racing for 2nd place.
>
> there's obviously no way he could just "get faster" if he didn't like
> cav beating him.
>
> i say: racing is racing -- challenge yourself. race in the highest
> category that you can be competitive in. racing should be a challenge.
> if you want to get easy wins and dominate, and it's within the rules,
> then whatever...just don't expect too many props for SANDBAGGING.
>
> to mr. lopez: get in the race. don't whine and worry about someone
> who shouldn't be in your cat. let his conscience deal with that.
>
> to mr. coker: get the heck out of the clydesdales. if you don't like
> getting beat in the B's..."just get faster".
>
> if you want an easy ride, don't race. if you want to race, don't
> expect an easy ride.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

toni

2010-10-24

straight up:

i echo steven beardsley's response: "this is racing"

however, i wonder if beardsley would like it if, say, marck cavendish lived nearby and came out to all the crits and track events and steven was effectively racing for 2nd place.

there's obviously no way he could just "get faster" if he didn't like cav beating him.

i say: racing is racing -- challenge yourself. race in the highest category that you can be competitive in. racing should be a challenge. if you want to get easy wins and dominate, and it's within the rules, then whatever...just don't expect too many props for SANDBAGGING.

to mr. lopez: get in the race. don't whine and worry about someone who shouldn't be in your cat. let his conscience deal with that.

to mr. coker: get the heck out of the clydesdales. if you don't like getting beat in the B's..."just get faster".

if you want an easy ride, don't race. if you want to race, don't expect an easy ride.

Karsten Hagen

2010-10-24

Sounds like some little people need to relax.

Karsten

Sent from my iPod

On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:27 PM, holstein71 wrote:

> Some of you know me, I race Clydes and happy to do it... If Mr. Coker is winning all the Clydes races, ild say the least he can do is bring more Extra Nacho Cheesy Doritos for after the race... I get plenty hungry once i am done, so if he could do that then im all for him...
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Brent Chapman

2010-10-24

I was gonna say some pretty rude stuff since I am a big boy too, but
figured I should just say congrats on your big win. You are already a
winner and don't have to worry about an open class racer not upgrading.

if you are intimidated don't race open classes. lots of people do just
that. race a category where sandbaggers get bumped up and you can
learn and no one cares if your losing.

dont be cocerned about your place in a c cat race. race, learn and
have fun. Let the Elites worry about the whining over winning stuff.

Sent from my iTouch over wifi.

On Oct 23, 2010, at 5:30 PM, Brian Lopez
wrote:

> I recently started cycling (about 6 months ago) and have lost nearly
> 70 pounds (down to 220).
>
> I am starting to get fit and really comfortable on the bike again (I
> raced many years ago) and was thinking of raing some of the Cross
> Crusade races. But the fact is: I am just not at the level of the
> other racers in the "C" or "B" categories.
>
> I know this because I attended Sherwood and Rainier as a spectator.
>
> However, I have considered racing in the Clydesdale group. That was,
> until I noticed that Aaron Coker riding in that category.
>
> According to OBRA results, Coker has WON three races this year in
> the PRO-1-2's. Additionally, he has more than TWENTY top-10 placings
> over the past two years in the 1-2's. Not to mention that he has
> also raced competitively in Category "B".
>
> I know that because of his weight (I've seen him and know he's
> 200+), it is within the letter of the rules for him to ride
> Clydesdales, but I strongly disagree with ANY racer essentially
> "downgrading" a category in order to win and dominate -- rather than
> race in their "proper" category with riders of like ability and
> simply be "competitive", like most everyone else.
>
> In my opinion, Clydesdales category is for guys like myself who are
> either kind of fat, a out of shape, and/or would get totally shelled
> in another Senior category.
>
> Sure...Magnus Backstedt could "technically" race a CC race as a
> Clydesdale, but should he? Or, moreover, should he want to? What
> would be his motivation? Would he take "pride" in these "triumphs"?
>
> I also think that if Coker or his team HP Chiro counts his
> "victories" in individual races or an overall series or competition
> as legitimate and touts the fact that they have an "Overall
> Champion" on their team -- Well, they ought to be ashamed of
> themselves!
>
> Having talked to a number of other Clydesdale racers, I know that I
> am not alone in my view on this subject.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

holstein71

2010-10-24

Some of you know me, I race Clydes and happy to do it... If Mr. Coker is winning all the Clydes races, ild say the least he can do is bring more Extra Nacho Cheesy Doritos for after the race... I get plenty hungry once i am done, so if he could do that then im all for him...

Roger Joys

2010-10-24

Include 30 inch inseams (as opposed to shorter than 30 in inseams) and I am
in. :) Then I won't have to deal with all those Gazelles.

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:47 PM, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:

> I'm still lobbying for a pony class for those with inseams shorter
> than 30 inches- pony class would get shorter barriers. I'm quite
> surprised that Mike Murray hasn't joined me in lobbying for it yet,
> since he's shorter than I am.
>
> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Ron and Dorothy Strasser
> wrote:
> > Brian,
> > I read you note. I have also read the public replies. I want to tell
> you
> > dropping 70lbs makes you a winner. I can somewhat understand your
> looking
> > at results and coming to some conclusions, but your conclusions are not
> > correct in this instance. I do not know Mr. Coker, but as others have
> said,
> > see him as totally in the right to race Clyde and dominate if that is the
> > case. I have probably cheered him on during races. Finishing in the top
> 10
> > or 20 is a very big deal in large (no pun) cyclocross fields. Heck, it
> is a
> > big deal in any cycling race with a large field. I do some SS racing and
> I
> > would never want the cat. to be separated out by age, weight or some
> other
> > idea someone might come up with. The idea behind racing SS is the same
> as
> > Clyde. Every racer is going to go out there and do the best they can
> > against the course. The other racers are doing the same. Some of the
> best
> > races I have had, have been ones where I was totally pack fodder. I
> > understand you wanting to feel like "you have a real chance", but the
> fact
> > is you do have a real chance. You can come out tomorrow or any of the
> > remaining Cross races and race Clyde or if you drop more weight...
> another
> > Cat. I think you would find the people who gave you some of their
> thoughts
> > about your post would also be giving you their support for coming out and
> > racing. Remember. Don't be thin skinned here on the chat list. I stick
> my
> > foot in my mouth on a regular basis. Sometimes I even comprehend my
> errors
> > enough to say I am sorry to various people I offend. Doing your best is
> > what makes it fun, not the place you finish. I believe the more you get
> to
> > know (through participating) the people who race here in OBRA-land, the
> more
> > fun (not saying you will not have to work hard in races) you will have in
> > your life. I say, get strong, and make Mr. Coker work hard every lap.
> And
> > as my friend and a proud Clyde, Mr. Chipp Ross would say.... As a Clyde
> you
> > can always TRAMPLE-TRAMPLE-TRAMPLE! Maybe they will even have the
> Champion
> > of the Universe Clyde race again at Nationals in Bend. You could focus
> on
> > that as your goal.
> > respectfully,
> > ron strasser
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lopez" <
> bizzylopizzy@excite.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 5:30 PM
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Coker sandbagging in CX
> >
> >
> >> I recently started cycling (about 6 months ago) and have lost nearly 70
> >> pounds (down to 220).
> >>
> >> I am starting to get fit and really comfortable on the bike again (I
> raced
> >> many years ago) and was thinking of raing some of the Cross Crusade
> races.
> >> But the fact is: I am just not at the level of the other racers in the
> "C"
> >> or "B" categories.
> >>
> >> I know this because I attended Sherwood and Rainier as a spectator.
> >>
> >> However, I have considered racing in the Clydesdale group. That was,
> until
> >> I noticed that Aaron Coker riding in that category.
> >>
> >> According to OBRA results, Coker has WON three races this year in the
> >> PRO-1-2's. Additionally, he has more than TWENTY top-10 placings over
> the
> >> past two years in the 1-2's. Not to mention that he has also raced
> >> competitively in Category "B".
> >>
> >> I know that because of his weight (I've seen him and know he's 200+), it
> >> is within the letter of the rules for him to ride Clydesdales, but I
> >> strongly disagree with ANY racer essentially "downgrading" a category in
> >> order to win and dominate -- rather than race in their "proper" category
> >> with riders of like ability and simply be "competitive", like most
> everyone
> >> else.
> >>
> >> In my opinion, Clydesdales category is for guys like myself who are
> either
> >> kind of fat, a out of shape, and/or would get totally shelled in another
> >> Senior category.
> >>
> >> Sure...Magnus Backstedt could "technically" race a CC race as a
> >> Clydesdale, but should he? Or, moreover, should he want to? What would
> be
> >> his motivation? Would he take "pride" in these "triumphs"?
> >>
> >> I also think that if Coker or his team HP Chiro counts his "victories"
> in
> >> individual races or an overall series or competition as legitimate and
> >> touts the fact that they have an "Overall Champion" on their team --
> Well,
> >> they ought to be ashamed of themselves!
> >>
> >> Having talked to a number of other Clydesdale racers, I know that I am
> not
> >> alone in my view on this subject.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone: 503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Ben Fischler

2010-10-24

On Oct 23, 2010, at 5:30 PM, Brian Lopez wrote:

> Having talked to a number of other Clydesdale racers, I know that I am not alone in my view on this subject.

And have you and these other Clyde racers taken the subject up with him directly?

Some thoughts:

1) He's racing within the rules.
2) Life isn't fair.

Direct communication is a wonderful and dying art. I suggest you try it.

[ ben.fischler@gmail.com ]

Steven Beardsley

2010-10-24

If you want to race Clydesdale and not have Coker beat you, then get faster. That's bike racing.

Brian Lopez wrote:

>I recently started cycling (about 6 months ago) and have lost nearly 70 pounds (down to 220).
>
>I am starting to get fit and really comfortable on the bike again (I raced many years ago) and was thinking of raing some of the Cross Crusade races. But the fact is: I am just not at the level of the other racers in the "C" or "B" categories.
>
>I know this because I attended Sherwood and Rainier as a spectator.
>
>However, I have considered racing in the Clydesdale group. That was, until I noticed that Aaron Coker riding in that category.
>
>According to OBRA results, Coker has WON three races this year in the PRO-1-2's. Additionally, he has more than TWENTY top-10 placings over the past two years in the 1-2's. Not to mention that he has also raced competitively in Category "B".
>
>I know that because of his weight (I've seen him and know he's 200+), it is within the letter of the rules for him to ride Clydesdales, but I strongly disagree with ANY racer essentially "downgrading" a category in order to win and dominate -- rather than race in their "proper" category with riders of like ability and simply be "competitive", like most everyone else.
>
>In my opinion, Clydesdales category is for guys like myself who are either kind of fat, a out of shape, and/or would get totally shelled in another Senior category.
>
>Sure...Magnus Backstedt could "technically" race a CC race as a Clydesdale, but should he? Or, moreover, should he want to? What would be his motivation? Would he take "pride" in these "triumphs"?
>
>I also think that if Coker or his team HP Chiro counts his "victories" in individual races or an overall series or competition as legitimate and touts the fact that they have an "Overall Champion" on their team -- Well, they ought to be ashamed of themselves!
>
>Having talked to a number of other Clydesdale racers, I know that I am not alone in my view on this subject.
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Mike Murray

2010-10-24

And Sam Nicoletti is shorter than both of us but he is skinny and has long
legs so he doesn't count.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of T. Kenji Sugahara
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 20:47 PM
To: Ron and Dorothy Strasser
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; Brian Lopez
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Coker sandbagging in CX

I'm still lobbying for a pony class for those with inseams shorter
than 30 inches- pony class would get shorter barriers. I'm quite
surprised that Mike Murray hasn't joined me in lobbying for it yet,
since he's shorter than I am.

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Ron and Dorothy Strasser
wrote:
> Brian,
> I read you note. I have also read the public replies. I want to tell you
> dropping 70lbs makes you a winner. I can somewhat understand your looking
> at results and coming to some conclusions, but your conclusions are not
> correct in this instance. I do not know Mr. Coker, but as others have
said,
> see him as totally in the right to race Clyde and dominate if that is the
> case. I have probably cheered him on during races. Finishing in the top
10
> or 20 is a very big deal in large (no pun) cyclocross fields. Heck, it is
a
> big deal in any cycling race with a large field. I do some SS racing and
I
> would never want the cat. to be separated out by age, weight or some other
> idea someone might come up with. The idea behind racing SS is the same as
> Clyde. Every racer is going to go out there and do the best they can
> against the course. The other racers are doing the same. Some of the
best
> races I have had, have been ones where I was totally pack fodder. I
> understand you wanting to feel like "you have a real chance", but the fact
> is you do have a real chance. You can come out tomorrow or any of the
> remaining Cross races and race Clyde or if you drop more weight... another
> Cat. I think you would find the people who gave you some of their
thoughts
> about your post would also be giving you their support for coming out and
> racing. Remember. Don't be thin skinned here on the chat list. I stick
my
> foot in my mouth on a regular basis. Sometimes I even comprehend my
errors
> enough to say I am sorry to various people I offend. Doing your best is
> what makes it fun, not the place you finish. I believe the more you get
to
> know (through participating) the people who race here in OBRA-land, the
more
> fun (not saying you will not have to work hard in races) you will have in
> your life. I say, get strong, and make Mr. Coker work hard every lap.
And
> as my friend and a proud Clyde, Mr. Chipp Ross would say.... As a Clyde
you
> can always TRAMPLE-TRAMPLE-TRAMPLE! Maybe they will even have the
Champion
> of the Universe Clyde race again at Nationals in Bend. You could focus on
> that as your goal.
> respectfully,
> ron strasser
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lopez"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 5:30 PM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Coker sandbagging in CX
>
>
>> I recently started cycling (about 6 months ago) and have lost nearly 70
>> pounds (down to 220).
>>
>> I am starting to get fit and really comfortable on the bike again (I
raced
>> many years ago) and was thinking of raing some of the Cross Crusade
races.
>> But the fact is: I am just not at the level of the other racers in the
"C"
>> or "B" categories.
>>
>> I know this because I attended Sherwood and Rainier as a spectator.
>>
>> However, I have considered racing in the Clydesdale group. That was,
until
>> I noticed that Aaron Coker riding in that category.
>>
>> According to OBRA results, Coker has WON three races this year in the
>> PRO-1-2's. Additionally, he has more than TWENTY top-10 placings over the
>> past two years in the 1-2's. Not to mention that he has also raced
>> competitively in Category "B".
>>
>> I know that because of his weight (I've seen him and know he's 200+), it
>> is within the letter of the rules for him to ride Clydesdales, but I
>> strongly disagree with ANY racer essentially "downgrading" a category in
>> order to win and dominate -- rather than race in their "proper" category
>> with riders of like ability and simply be "competitive", like most
everyone
>> else.
>>
>> In my opinion, Clydesdales category is for guys like myself who are
either
>> kind of fat, a out of shape, and/or would get totally shelled in another
>> Senior category.
>>
>> Sure...Magnus Backstedt could "technically" race a CC race as a
>> Clydesdale, but should he? Or, moreover, should he want to? What would be
>> his motivation? Would he take "pride" in these "triumphs"?
>>
>> I also think that if Coker or his team HP Chiro counts his "victories" in
>> individual races or an overall series or competition as legitimate and
>> touts the fact that they have an "Overall Champion" on their team --
Well,
>> they ought to be ashamed of themselves!
>>
>> Having talked to a number of other Clydesdale racers, I know that I am
not
>> alone in my view on this subject.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

T. Kenji Sugahara

2010-10-24

I'm still lobbying for a pony class for those with inseams shorter
than 30 inches- pony class would get shorter barriers. I'm quite
surprised that Mike Murray hasn't joined me in lobbying for it yet,
since he's shorter than I am.

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Ron and Dorothy Strasser
wrote:
> Brian,
> I read you note. I have also read the public replies. I want to tell you
> dropping 70lbs makes you a winner. I can somewhat understand your looking
> at results and coming to some conclusions, but your conclusions are not
> correct in this instance. I do not know Mr. Coker, but as others have said,
> see him as totally in the right to race Clyde and dominate if that is the
> case. I have probably cheered him on during races. Finishing in the top 10
> or 20 is a very big deal in large (no pun) cyclocross fields. Heck, it is a
> big deal in any cycling race with a large field. I do some SS racing and I
> would never want the cat. to be separated out by age, weight or some other
> idea someone might come up with. The idea behind racing SS is the same as
> Clyde. Every racer is going to go out there and do the best they can
> against the course. The other racers are doing the same. Some of the best
> races I have had, have been ones where I was totally pack fodder. I
> understand you wanting to feel like "you have a real chance", but the fact
> is you do have a real chance. You can come out tomorrow or any of the
> remaining Cross races and race Clyde or if you drop more weight... another
> Cat. I think you would find the people who gave you some of their thoughts
> about your post would also be giving you their support for coming out and
> racing. Remember. Don't be thin skinned here on the chat list. I stick my
> foot in my mouth on a regular basis. Sometimes I even comprehend my errors
> enough to say I am sorry to various people I offend. Doing your best is
> what makes it fun, not the place you finish. I believe the more you get to
> know (through participating) the people who race here in OBRA-land, the more
> fun (not saying you will not have to work hard in races) you will have in
> your life. I say, get strong, and make Mr. Coker work hard every lap. And
> as my friend and a proud Clyde, Mr. Chipp Ross would say.... As a Clyde you
> can always TRAMPLE-TRAMPLE-TRAMPLE! Maybe they will even have the Champion
> of the Universe Clyde race again at Nationals in Bend. You could focus on
> that as your goal.
> respectfully,
> ron strasser
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lopez"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 5:30 PM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Coker sandbagging in CX
>
>
>> I recently started cycling (about 6 months ago) and have lost nearly 70
>> pounds (down to 220).
>>
>> I am starting to get fit and really comfortable on the bike again (I raced
>> many years ago) and was thinking of raing some of the Cross Crusade races.
>> But the fact is: I am just not at the level of the other racers in the "C"
>> or "B" categories.
>>
>> I know this because I attended Sherwood and Rainier as a spectator.
>>
>> However, I have considered racing in the Clydesdale group. That was, until
>> I noticed that Aaron Coker riding in that category.
>>
>> According to OBRA results, Coker has WON three races this year in the
>> PRO-1-2's. Additionally, he has more than TWENTY top-10 placings over the
>> past two years in the 1-2's. Not to mention that he has also raced
>> competitively in Category "B".
>>
>> I know that because of his weight (I've seen him and know he's 200+), it
>> is within the letter of the rules for him to ride Clydesdales, but I
>> strongly disagree with ANY racer essentially "downgrading" a category in
>> order to win and dominate -- rather than race in their "proper" category
>> with riders of like ability and simply be "competitive", like most everyone
>> else.
>>
>> In my opinion, Clydesdales category is for guys like myself who are either
>> kind of fat, a out of shape, and/or would get totally shelled in another
>> Senior category.
>>
>> Sure...Magnus Backstedt could "technically" race a CC race as a
>> Clydesdale, but should he? Or, moreover, should he want to? What would be
>> his motivation? Would he take "pride" in these "triumphs"?
>>
>> I also think that if Coker or his team HP Chiro counts his "victories" in
>> individual races or an overall series or competition as legitimate and
>> touts the fact that they have an "Overall Champion" on their team -- Well,
>> they ought to be ashamed of themselves!
>>
>> Having talked to a number of other Clydesdale racers, I know that I am not
>> alone in my view on this subject.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

2010-10-24

Brian,
I read you note. I have also read the public replies. I want to tell you
dropping 70lbs makes you a winner. I can somewhat understand your looking
at results and coming to some conclusions, but your conclusions are not
correct in this instance. I do not know Mr. Coker, but as others have said,
see him as totally in the right to race Clyde and dominate if that is the
case. I have probably cheered him on during races. Finishing in the top 10
or 20 is a very big deal in large (no pun) cyclocross fields. Heck, it is a
big deal in any cycling race with a large field. I do some SS racing and I
would never want the cat. to be separated out by age, weight or some other
idea someone might come up with. The idea behind racing SS is the same as
Clyde. Every racer is going to go out there and do the best they can
against the course. The other racers are doing the same. Some of the best
races I have had, have been ones where I was totally pack fodder. I
understand you wanting to feel like "you have a real chance", but the fact
is you do have a real chance. You can come out tomorrow or any of the
remaining Cross races and race Clyde or if you drop more weight... another
Cat. I think you would find the people who gave you some of their thoughts
about your post would also be giving you their support for coming out and
racing. Remember. Don't be thin skinned here on the chat list. I stick my
foot in my mouth on a regular basis. Sometimes I even comprehend my errors
enough to say I am sorry to various people I offend. Doing your best is
what makes it fun, not the place you finish. I believe the more you get to
know (through participating) the people who race here in OBRA-land, the more
fun (not saying you will not have to work hard in races) you will have in
your life. I say, get strong, and make Mr. Coker work hard every lap. And
as my friend and a proud Clyde, Mr. Chipp Ross would say.... As a Clyde you
can always TRAMPLE-TRAMPLE-TRAMPLE! Maybe they will even have the Champion
of the Universe Clyde race again at Nationals in Bend. You could focus on
that as your goal.
respectfully,
ron strasser
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lopez"
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 5:30 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Coker sandbagging in CX

>I recently started cycling (about 6 months ago) and have lost nearly 70
>pounds (down to 220).
>
> I am starting to get fit and really comfortable on the bike again (I raced
> many years ago) and was thinking of raing some of the Cross Crusade races.
> But the fact is: I am just not at the level of the other racers in the "C"
> or "B" categories.
>
> I know this because I attended Sherwood and Rainier as a spectator.
>
> However, I have considered racing in the Clydesdale group. That was, until
> I noticed that Aaron Coker riding in that category.
>
> According to OBRA results, Coker has WON three races this year in the
> PRO-1-2's. Additionally, he has more than TWENTY top-10 placings over the
> past two years in the 1-2's. Not to mention that he has also raced
> competitively in Category "B".
>
> I know that because of his weight (I've seen him and know he's 200+), it
> is within the letter of the rules for him to ride Clydesdales, but I
> strongly disagree with ANY racer essentially "downgrading" a category in
> order to win and dominate -- rather than race in their "proper" category
> with riders of like ability and simply be "competitive", like most
> everyone else.
>
> In my opinion, Clydesdales category is for guys like myself who are either
> kind of fat, a out of shape, and/or would get totally shelled in another
> Senior category.
>
> Sure...Magnus Backstedt could "technically" race a CC race as a
> Clydesdale, but should he? Or, moreover, should he want to? What would be
> his motivation? Would he take "pride" in these "triumphs"?
>
> I also think that if Coker or his team HP Chiro counts his "victories" in
> individual races or an overall series or competition as legitimate and
> touts the fact that they have an "Overall Champion" on their team -- Well,
> they ought to be ashamed of themselves!
>
> Having talked to a number of other Clydesdale racers, I know that I am not
> alone in my view on this subject.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Evan Plews

2010-10-24

Race an age graded/skill based category. Clydesdales is for wussies anyway thats why Mr Coker is in there... hehehe ;)

(just kidding clydes--don't get your pony tails in a knot!)

Evan Plews
www.evanplews.com
503-949-4879

> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 17:30:33 -0700
> From: bizzylopizzy@excite.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Coker sandbagging in CX
>
> I recently started cycling (about 6 months ago) and have lost nearly 70 pounds (down to 220).
>
> I am starting to get fit and really comfortable on the bike again (I raced many years ago) and was thinking of raing some of the Cross Crusade races. But the fact is: I am just not at the level of the other racers in the "C" or "B" categories.
>
> I know this because I attended Sherwood and Rainier as a spectator.
>
> However, I have considered racing in the Clydesdale group. That was, until I noticed that Aaron Coker riding in that category.
>
> According to OBRA results, Coker has WON three races this year in the PRO-1-2's. Additionally, he has more than TWENTY top-10 placings over the past two years in the 1-2's. Not to mention that he has also raced competitively in Category "B".
>
> I know that because of his weight (I've seen him and know he's 200+), it is within the letter of the rules for him to ride Clydesdales, but I strongly disagree with ANY racer essentially "downgrading" a category in order to win and dominate -- rather than race in their "proper" category with riders of like ability and simply be "competitive", like most everyone else.
>
> In my opinion, Clydesdales category is for guys like myself who are either kind of fat, a out of shape, and/or would get totally shelled in another Senior category.
>
> Sure...Magnus Backstedt could "technically" race a CC race as a Clydesdale, but should he? Or, moreover, should he want to? What would be his motivation? Would he take "pride" in these "triumphs"?
>
> I also think that if Coker or his team HP Chiro counts his "victories" in individual races or an overall series or competition as legitimate and touts the fact that they have an "Overall Champion" on their team -- Well, they ought to be ashamed of themselves!
>
> Having talked to a number of other Clydesdale racers, I know that I am not alone in my view on this subject.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

dacrizzow

2010-10-24

wow, dude. hate to see the stuff that got sent to you privately. don't take it to seriously. people seem to get easily offended here for some reason. you've got a point and it's not off mark but yeah, there's a fine line and it hasn't "quite" been crossed. i've been racing for about 10-12 yrs. and i've always had a lot of admiration for the overweight guys and girls who squeeze into spandex and get out there and suffer w/ a bunch of fast skinny guys. i too was under the impression that the clydes cat was for them but it obviously wasn't. don't let it discourage you though. the top %10 in every group is kinda like that. mid-pack is where you learn how to race anyway. you're only cheating yourself if you're aways on the front. even our front of the pack A's are mid-packers in europe. that's one of the reasons they're able to come back and kick everyone's butt in the states. get in there and get yer butt kicked.

David Rosen

2010-10-24

How dare you call him out when he is clearly following the rules! Aaron is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet and for you to do this in such a manner is cowardly. If you have a problem with Aaron, then bring it up directly with him. Not in a public forum. I realize quite a few people have jumped to Aaron's defense already and I don't like piling on someone when they are clearly in the wrong, but in this case you I am more than happy to add to your inbox (sorry to everyone else).

As it has been stated, Aaron is within the rules. I have been racing Master B's this season (mid pack) and I plan on racing a few clydes races. I am 202lbs. If I beat you or lap you, are you going to call me out to? I hope not. The clydes class is all about fun. Kind of like the SS race except you have to make weight to get in. Don't take yourself so seriously in the clydes, drop a few more lbs and race in one of the other cats.

I'd say "lighten up" but that would be in poor taste (pun intended).
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lopez
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 17:30:33
To:
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Coker sandbagging in CX

I recently started cycling (about 6 months ago) and have lost nearly 70 pounds (down to 220).

I am starting to get fit and really comfortable on the bike again (I raced many years ago) and was thinking of raing some of the Cross Crusade races. But the fact is: I am just not at the level of the other racers in the "C" or "B" categories.

I know this because I attended Sherwood and Rainier as a spectator.

However, I have considered racing in the Clydesdale group. That was, until I noticed that Aaron Coker riding in that category.

According to OBRA results, Coker has WON three races this year in the PRO-1-2's. Additionally, he has more than TWENTY top-10 placings over the past two years in the 1-2's. Not to mention that he has also raced competitively in Category "B".

I know that because of his weight (I've seen him and know he's 200+), it is within the letter of the rules for him to ride Clydesdales, but I strongly disagree with ANY racer essentially "downgrading" a category in order to win and dominate -- rather than race in their "proper" category with riders of like ability and simply be "competitive", like most everyone else.

In my opinion, Clydesdales category is for guys like myself who are either kind of fat, a out of shape, and/or would get totally shelled in another Senior category.

Sure...Magnus Backstedt could "technically" race a CC race as a Clydesdale, but should he? Or, moreover, should he want to? What would be his motivation? Would he take "pride" in these "triumphs"?

I also think that if Coker or his team HP Chiro counts his "victories" in individual races or an overall series or competition as legitimate and touts the fact that they have an "Overall Champion" on their team -- Well, they ought to be ashamed of themselves!

Having talked to a number of other Clydesdale racers, I know that I am not alone in my view on this subject.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Joel Metz

2010-10-24

cokers road results have diddly to do with his cat as a cross racer. a
quick review of his cross results puts him racing mostly bs and clydes for
the past 5 years, and finishing mostly mid-pack in the bs and doing pretty
well in the clydes. cross is a different beast - we cross specialists do
not always speak highly of roadie bike-handling skills in the dirt :)

clyde, like singlespeed, is an open category, with no potential for up- or
downgrading. like singlespeed, i believe the spirit of the category is
slightly less, er... serious... than the rest of the game. this is not to
impugn the seriousness or ability of anyone racing in the cat, but the cat
itself, well, not so serious. i mean really - self-selecting based on body
mass? its about as serious as self-selecting based on being stupid enough
to only ride one gear. :) (for the record, i race singlespeed, and weigh
just over 200 lbs)

id wager most clydes, as with most singlespeeders, are racing cross not
for the potential to cat up, or take home high placing glory, but for
*fun*, in competition mainly against their own previous performance, and
out of sheer love for the absurd madness that is cyclocross. all of which
are chock full of glory in their own right.

i commend you on your return to the bike, and your weight loss, and i
really really hope you try racing cross regardless of your reservations
about coker racing as a clyde - but his entry in the clyde cat, and any
victories he has obtained, are quite legitimate, from where i stand.

-joel

(and frankly, if magnus backstedt showed up and raced a crusade as a
singlespeed, id be thrilled - and probably get beated by a mile. but then,
it cant be any worse than anything trebon has done to us :) )

> I recently started cycling (about 6 months ago) and have lost nearly 70
> pounds (down to 220).
>
> I am starting to get fit and really comfortable on the bike again (I raced
> many years ago) and was thinking of raing some of the Cross Crusade races.
> But the fact is: I am just not at the level of the other racers in the "C"
> or "B" categories.
>
> I know this because I attended Sherwood and Rainier as a spectator.
>
> However, I have considered racing in the Clydesdale group. That was, until
> I noticed that Aaron Coker riding in that category.
>
> According to OBRA results, Coker has WON three races this year in the
> PRO-1-2's. Additionally, he has more than TWENTY top-10 placings over the
> past two years in the 1-2's. Not to mention that he has also raced
> competitively in Category "B".
>
> I know that because of his weight (I've seen him and know he's 200+), it
> is within the letter of the rules for him to ride Clydesdales, but I
> strongly disagree with ANY racer essentially "downgrading" a category in
> order to win and dominate -- rather than race in their "proper" category
> with riders of like ability and simply be "competitive", like most
> everyone else.
>
> In my opinion, Clydesdales category is for guys like myself who are either
> kind of fat, a out of shape, and/or would get totally shelled in another
> Senior category.
>
> Sure...Magnus Backstedt could "technically" race a CC race as a
> Clydesdale, but should he? Or, moreover, should he want to? What would be
> his motivation? Would he take "pride" in these "triumphs"?
>
> I also think that if Coker or his team HP Chiro counts his "victories" in
> individual races or an overall series or competition as legitimate and
> touts the fact that they have an "Overall Champion" on their team -- Well,
> they ought to be ashamed of themselves!
>
> Having talked to a number of other Clydesdale racers, I know that I am not
> alone in my view on this subject.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
joel metz : magpie@blackbirdsf.org : http://www.blackbirdsf.org/
magpie messenger collective : http://magpiemessenger.com/
==
i know what innocence looks like - and it wasn't there,
after she got that bicycle...

Candi Murray

2010-10-24

I have been asked to upgrade a junior and a 50+ rider because they were
winning all of their events. I had to explain that they met the requirements
to race that category. The only requirement to race Clydesdales is the
weight. Aaron meets that. He is entitled and welcomed to race Clydesdale.

Candi Murray

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Brian Lopez
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 5:31 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Coker sandbagging in CX

I recently started cycling (about 6 months ago) and have lost nearly 70
pounds (down to 220).

I am starting to get fit and really comfortable on the bike again (I raced
many years ago) and was thinking of raing some of the Cross Crusade races.
But the fact is: I am just not at the level of the other racers in the "C"
or "B" categories.

I know this because I attended Sherwood and Rainier as a spectator.

However, I have considered racing in the Clydesdale group. That was, until I
noticed that Aaron Coker riding in that category.

According to OBRA results, Coker has WON three races this year in the
PRO-1-2's. Additionally, he has more than TWENTY top-10 placings over the
past two years in the 1-2's. Not to mention that he has also raced
competitively in Category "B".

I know that because of his weight (I've seen him and know he's 200+), it is
within the letter of the rules for him to ride Clydesdales, but I strongly
disagree with ANY racer essentially "downgrading" a category in order to win
and dominate -- rather than race in their "proper" category with riders of
like ability and simply be "competitive", like most everyone else.

In my opinion, Clydesdales category is for guys like myself who are either
kind of fat, a out of shape, and/or would get totally shelled in another
Senior category.

Sure...Magnus Backstedt could "technically" race a CC race as a Clydesdale,
but should he? Or, moreover, should he want to? What would be his
motivation? Would he take "pride" in these "triumphs"?

I also think that if Coker or his team HP Chiro counts his "victories" in
individual races or an overall series or competition as legitimate and
touts the fact that they have an "Overall Champion" on their team -- Well,
they ought to be ashamed of themselves!

Having talked to a number of other Clydesdale racers, I know that I am not
alone in my view on this subject.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_____

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1144 / Virus Database: 422/3214 - Release Date: 10/23/10

Matthew Lasala

2010-10-24

As a fellow Clyde I have to disagree with you Brian...200# is 200#...if he
is 2% body fat and a cat1 then so be it...that is my problem I have a high
BMI and low VO2 max...the more the merrier in our group I say...If Trebon
want s to gain weight and race with us that is fine too...

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Mike Murray wrote:

> This may be your opinion and others may share it but that does not make it
> correct. The only selection criteria for Clydesdale is weight. Other
> criteria are not considered. Not height, age, fitness, history of weight
> loss, gender, ability or any other criteria. To call out Coker for sand
> bagging when he is legitimately following the rules is lame and you owe him
> an apology.
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Lopez
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 17:30:33
> To:
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Coker sandbagging in CX
>
> I recently started cycling (about 6 months ago) and have lost nearly 70
> pounds (down to 220).
>
> I am starting to get fit and really comfortable on the bike again (I raced
> many years ago) and was thinking of raing some of the Cross Crusade races.
> But the fact is: I am just not at the level of the other racers in the "C"
> or "B" categories.
>
> I know this because I attended Sherwood and Rainier as a spectator.
>
> However, I have considered racing in the Clydesdale group. That was, until
> I noticed that Aaron Coker riding in that category.
>
> According to OBRA results, Coker has WON three races this year in the
> PRO-1-2's. Additionally, he has more than TWENTY top-10 placings over the
> past two years in the 1-2's. Not to mention that he has also raced
> competitively in Category "B".
>
> I know that because of his weight (I've seen him and know he's 200+), it is
> within the letter of the rules for him to ride Clydesdales, but I strongly
> disagree with ANY racer essentially "downgrading" a category in order to win
> and dominate -- rather than race in their "proper" category with riders of
> like ability and simply be "competitive", like most everyone else.
>
> In my opinion, Clydesdales category is for guys like myself who are either
> kind of fat, a out of shape, and/or would get totally shelled in another
> Senior category.
>
> Sure...Magnus Backstedt could "technically" race a CC race as a Clydesdale,
> but should he? Or, moreover, should he want to? What would be his
> motivation? Would he take "pride" in these "triumphs"?
>
> I also think that if Coker or his team HP Chiro counts his "victories" in
> individual races or an overall series or competition as legitimate and
> touts the fact that they have an "Overall Champion" on their team -- Well,
> they ought to be ashamed of themselves!
>
> Having talked to a number of other Clydesdale racers, I know that I am not
> alone in my view on this subject.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
Matthew Lasala

Start slow...then Savasana

thomas morgan

2010-10-24

I'm sure I will not be the last to say this, but calling out some one for racing in a category that they meet the requirements to race in is really in poor taste. If you don't like that fact he can race in this category go to an obra meeting and suggest a rule change. Maybe instead of the clydesdales being weight based they should have a matrix of height to weight, or be based on body fat percentage. I really hate to come down on some one new to cycling, but really you picked a hard sport, and complaining about people being faster than you is lame.

> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 17:30:33 -0700
> From: bizzylopizzy@excite.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Coker sandbagging in CX
>
> I recently started cycling (about 6 months ago) and have lost nearly 70 pounds (down to 220).
>
> I am starting to get fit and really comfortable on the bike again (I raced many years ago) and was thinking of raing some of the Cross Crusade races. But the fact is: I am just not at the level of the other racers in the "C" or "B" categories.
>
> I know this because I attended Sherwood and Rainier as a spectator.
>
> However, I have considered racing in the Clydesdale group. That was, until I noticed that Aaron Coker riding in that category.
>
> According to OBRA results, Coker has WON three races this year in the PRO-1-2's. Additionally, he has more than TWENTY top-10 placings over the past two years in the 1-2's. Not to mention that he has also raced competitively in Category "B".
>
> I know that because of his weight (I've seen him and know he's 200+), it is within the letter of the rules for him to ride Clydesdales, but I strongly disagree with ANY racer essentially "downgrading" a category in order to win and dominate -- rather than race in their "proper" category with riders of like ability and simply be "competitive", like most everyone else.
>
> In my opinion, Clydesdales category is for guys like myself who are either kind of fat, a out of shape, and/or would get totally shelled in another Senior category.
>
> Sure...Magnus Backstedt could "technically" race a CC race as a Clydesdale, but should he? Or, moreover, should he want to? What would be his motivation? Would he take "pride" in these "triumphs"?
>
> I also think that if Coker or his team HP Chiro counts his "victories" in individual races or an overall series or competition as legitimate and touts the fact that they have an "Overall Champion" on their team -- Well, they ought to be ashamed of themselves!
>
> Having talked to a number of other Clydesdale racers, I know that I am not alone in my view on this subject.
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David Hart

2010-10-24

Gee. I guess we need another category for clydes. Not so serious and
serious. Problem solved! Btw-where does it state in the rules about ability
for clydes? I think you just have to weigh 200+. Gosh.

On Oct 23, 2010 6:37 PM, "Mike Murray" wrote:

This may be your opinion and others may share it but that does not make it
correct. The only selection criteria for Clydesdale is weight. Other
criteria are not considered. Not height, age, fitness, history of weight
loss, gender, ability or any other criteria. To call out Coker for sand
bagging when he is legitimately following the rules is lame and you owe him
an apology.
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lopez

Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 17:30:33
To:

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Coker sandbagging in CX

I recently started cycling (about 6 months ago) and have lost nearly 70
pounds (down to 220).

I am ...

Mike Murray

2010-10-24

This may be your opinion and others may share it but that does not make it correct. The only selection criteria for Clydesdale is weight. Other criteria are not considered. Not height, age, fitness, history of weight loss, gender, ability or any other criteria. To call out Coker for sand bagging when he is legitimately following the rules is lame and you owe him an apology.
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile