Dan H

A whole bunch of cheap wheels are faster than Kyrsiriums with their
fat alloy spokes.

Dan Houghton
Southwest Bicycle, LLC
3605 SW Multnomah Blvd
503-246-0333
www.swbicycle.com

On Dec 14, 2010, at 3:39 PM, Kevin wrote:

> My Zipp 404's with tubular Continentals are 4 mph faster down the
> Hillsboro side of Logie Trail on a roll test than the same bike/
> rider with the stock Kysriums and clincher continentals. Though
> lighter, the improvement in rolling resistance and aerodynamics more
> than makes up for it.
>
> Now how that translates to sub 20 mph slogs through mud and muck
> escapes me.
>
>
> Kevin
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> What is happening in Kevin's corner of the bike world?
> http://the-whir-of-spokes-in-air.blogspot.com
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> From: Shane Gibson
> To: OBRA
> Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 2:06:29 PM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] opening a can of worms: deep dish tubular rims?
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Okay, how soon until the next Cross season!? :) Any one wanna
> produce a Spring 'Cross season? :)
>
> Here's my question - I'm looking at building up a set of wheels for
> my 'cross bike for 2011. This year, I used a standard/average
> clincher wheel set (SRAM X9 hubs, WTB Speed Disc rims, etc). For
> next year, I'd like to ride a deep dish tubular set up. I'm seeking
> input for:
>
> rims
> deep dish
> tubular
> light weight, but sturdy (willing to sacrifice a little weight for
> durability)
> rider size of 6'3" and 205 lbs
> using disc hubs/disc brakes
> open to any materials
> tubular tires
> a great all-around tubular tire for the Portland and surrounding
> areas, all season long
> emphasis on traction in our muddier seasons, over speed
>
> I'm most interested in direct experiences any one has had with
> tubular deep dish rims. Cost is not a huge consideration - but
> I'm not willing to spend obscene amounts of money. Thanks for any
> input or thoughts!
>
> ~~ shane
>
> --
> "Opportunities multiply as they are seized." - Sun Tzu
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Sarah Tisdale

All that said, I haven't run deep-dish tubulars for CX but...

I don't buy the, "cuts through sand/mud/water better" argument. Thanks to
our wonderful photographers we have many artistic photos of wheels flying
through mud/sand/water. In *all* of them it splashes outward and away from
the wheel. Busted. Examples:

http://www.pdxcross.com/galleries/washington-county-extra-goodies/7485125

http://www.pdxcross.com/galleries/washington-county-extra-goodies/7485127

The argument I do see for deep-dish carbon rims is for muddy/grassy courses
where mud collects on the flat interior section of a box-shaped rim.
Deep-dish rims also avoid having grass wrap around the spokes. Here's a
great example of this:

http://www.pdxcross.com/galleries/washington-county-extra-goodies/7485062

If I'm right, then the following is true:
- dry/water-only/sand-only courses - doesn't matter which type of rim
- grassy and muddy courses - deep-dish wheels better

Sarah

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Roger Joys
wrote:

> Shane,
>
> There was a pretty good article on deep dish carbon rim and CX in Velonews.
>
>
> http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/11/cyclocross/technical-faq-with-lennard-zinn-the-benefits-of-aerodynamic-wheels-in-mud_151431
>
> I'd love to see a return of the Vanport Kermeese.
>
> -r
>
> On Dec 14, 2010, at 2:06 PM, Shane Gibson wrote:
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Okay, how soon until the next Cross season!? :) Any one wanna produce a
> Spring 'Cross season? :)
>
> Here's my question - I'm looking at building up a set of wheels for my
> 'cross bike for 2011. This year, I used a standard/average clincher wheel
> set (SRAM X9 hubs, WTB Speed Disc rims, etc). For next year, I'd like to
> ride a deep dish tubular set up. I'm seeking input for:
>
>
> - rims
> - deep dish
> - tubular
> - light weight, but sturdy (willing to sacrifice a little weight for
> durability)
> - rider size of 6'3" and 205 lbs
> - using disc hubs/disc brakes
> - open to any materials
> - tubular tires
> - a great all-around tubular tire for the Portland and surrounding
> areas, all season long
> - emphasis on traction in our muddier seasons, over speed
>
>
> I'm most interested in direct experiences any one has had with tubular deep
> dish rims. Cost is not a huge consideration - but I'm not willing to
> spend obscene amounts of money. Thanks for any input or thoughts!
>
> ~~ shane
>
> --
> "Opportunities multiply as they are seized." - Sun Tzu
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

tackyglueit

bring it back Jeff, bring it back............... yes please.

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 3:55 PM, Tim Schauer wrote:

> Jeff did an awesome job promoting the Vanport series a few years ago. it
> was just very poorly attended. But those trophies made from a chunk of the
> old PIR Curbing (like the Cobble on the Paris-Roubaix trophy) were very
> cool! I think that any road race that incorporates some rough or gravel
> sections in the spirit of Europe's northern spring classics stands a good
> chance of attracting both road racers and cyclocross addicts. PIR seemed
> like a good venue for that Vanport Series, but didn't seem to gain traction
> like I thought it might. I hope it comes back too.
>
> -Tim
>
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Roger Joys <
> roger.joys.maillists@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Shane,
>>
>> There was a pretty good article on deep dish carbon rim and CX in
>> Velonews.
>>
>>
>> http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/11/cyclocross/technical-faq-with-lennard-zinn-the-benefits-of-aerodynamic-wheels-in-mud_151431
>>
>> I'd love to see a return of the Vanport Kermeese.
>>
>> -r
>>
>> On Dec 14, 2010, at 2:06 PM, Shane Gibson wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Okay, how soon until the next Cross season!? :) Any one wanna produce a
>> Spring 'Cross season? :)
>>
>> Here's my question - I'm looking at building up a set of wheels for my
>> 'cross bike for 2011. This year, I used a standard/average clincher wheel
>> set (SRAM X9 hubs, WTB Speed Disc rims, etc). For next year, I'd like to
>> ride a deep dish tubular set up. I'm seeking input for:
>>
>>
>> - rims
>> - deep dish
>> - tubular
>> - light weight, but sturdy (willing to sacrifice a little weight
>> for durability)
>> - rider size of 6'3" and 205 lbs
>> - using disc hubs/disc brakes
>> - open to any materials
>> - tubular tires
>> - a great all-around tubular tire for the Portland and surrounding
>> areas, all season long
>> - emphasis on traction in our muddier seasons, over speed
>>
>>
>> I'm most interested in direct experiences any one has had with tubular
>> deep dish rims. Cost is not a huge consideration - but I'm not willing to
>> spend obscene amounts of money. Thanks for any input or thoughts!
>>
>> ~~ shane
>>
>> --
>> "Opportunities multiply as they are seized." - Sun Tzu
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Tim Schauer
> President
> MacKay & Sposito, Inc.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Tim Schauer

Jeff did an awesome job promoting the Vanport series a few years ago. it was
just very poorly attended. But those trophies made from a chunk of the old
PIR Curbing (like the Cobble on the Paris-Roubaix trophy) were very cool! I
think that any road race that incorporates some rough or gravel sections in
the spirit of Europe's northern spring classics stands a good chance of
attracting both road racers and cyclocross addicts. PIR seemed like a good
venue for that Vanport Series, but didn't seem to gain traction like I
thought it might. I hope it comes back too.

-Tim

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Roger Joys
wrote:

> Shane,
>
> There was a pretty good article on deep dish carbon rim and CX in Velonews.
>
>
> http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/11/cyclocross/technical-faq-with-lennard-zinn-the-benefits-of-aerodynamic-wheels-in-mud_151431
>
> I'd love to see a return of the Vanport Kermeese.
>
> -r
>
> On Dec 14, 2010, at 2:06 PM, Shane Gibson wrote:
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Okay, how soon until the next Cross season!? :) Any one wanna produce a
> Spring 'Cross season? :)
>
> Here's my question - I'm looking at building up a set of wheels for my
> 'cross bike for 2011. This year, I used a standard/average clincher wheel
> set (SRAM X9 hubs, WTB Speed Disc rims, etc). For next year, I'd like to
> ride a deep dish tubular set up. I'm seeking input for:
>
>
> - rims
> - deep dish
> - tubular
> - light weight, but sturdy (willing to sacrifice a little weight for
> durability)
> - rider size of 6'3" and 205 lbs
> - using disc hubs/disc brakes
> - open to any materials
> - tubular tires
> - a great all-around tubular tire for the Portland and surrounding
> areas, all season long
> - emphasis on traction in our muddier seasons, over speed
>
>
> I'm most interested in direct experiences any one has had with tubular deep
> dish rims. Cost is not a huge consideration - but I'm not willing to
> spend obscene amounts of money. Thanks for any input or thoughts!
>
> ~~ shane
>
> --
> "Opportunities multiply as they are seized." - Sun Tzu
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Tim Schauer
President
MacKay & Sposito, Inc.

Roger Joys

Shane,

There was a pretty good article on deep dish carbon rim and CX in Velonews.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/11/cyclocross/technical-faq-with-lennard-zinn-the-benefits-of-aerodynamic-wheels-in-mud_151431

I'd love to see a return of the Vanport Kermeese.

-r

On Dec 14, 2010, at 2:06 PM, Shane Gibson wrote:

>
> Hi All,
>
> Okay, how soon until the next Cross season!? :) Any one wanna produce a Spring 'Cross season? :)
>
> Here's my question - I'm looking at building up a set of wheels for my 'cross bike for 2011. This year, I used a standard/average clincher wheel set (SRAM X9 hubs, WTB Speed Disc rims, etc). For next year, I'd like to ride a deep dish tubular set up. I'm seeking input for:
>
> rims
> deep dish
> tubular
> light weight, but sturdy (willing to sacrifice a little weight for durability)
> rider size of 6'3" and 205 lbs
> using disc hubs/disc brakes
> open to any materials
> tubular tires
> a great all-around tubular tire for the Portland and surrounding areas, all season long
> emphasis on traction in our muddier seasons, over speed
>
> I'm most interested in direct experiences any one has had with tubular deep dish rims. Cost is not a huge consideration - but I'm not willing to spend obscene amounts of money. Thanks for any input or thoughts!
>
> ~~ shane
>
> --
> "Opportunities multiply as they are seized." - Sun Tzu
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Kevin

My Zipp 404's with tubular Continentals are 4 mph faster down the Hillsboro side
of Logie Trail on a roll test than the same bike/rider with the stock Kysriums
and clincher continentals. Though lighter, the improvement in rolling
resistance and aerodynamics more than makes up for it.

Now how that translates to sub 20 mph slogs through mud and muck escapes me.

Kevin

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What is happening in Kevin's corner of the bike world?
http://the-whir-of-spokes-in-air.blogspot.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

________________________________
From: Shane Gibson
To: OBRA
Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 2:06:29 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] opening a can of worms: deep dish tubular rims?

Hi All,

Okay, how soon until the next Cross season!? :) Any one wanna produce a Spring
'Cross season? :)

Here's my question - I'm looking at building up a set of wheels for my 'cross
bike for 2011. This year, I used a standard/average clincher wheel set (SRAM X9
hubs, WTB Speed Disc rims, etc). For next year, I'd like to ride a deep dish
tubular set up. I'm seeking input for:

* rims
* deep dish
* tubular
* light weight, but sturdy (willing to sacrifice a little weight for
durability)
* rider size of 6'3" and 205 lbs
* using disc hubs/disc brakes
* open to any materials
* tubular tires
* a great all-around tubular tire for the Portland and surrounding areas, all
season long
* emphasis on traction in our muddier seasons, over speed

I'm most interested in direct experiences any one has had with tubular deep dish
rims. Cost is not a huge consideration - but I'm not willing to spend obscene
amounts of money. Thanks for any input or thoughts!

~~ shane

--
"Opportunities multiply as they are seized." - Sun Tzu

Flo Leibowitz

If a promoter put on a holiday season race or two like they have in Europe, I'd do them. Would y'all?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Shane Gibson
Sender: "obra-bounces@list.obra.org"
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14:06:29
To: OBRA
Subject: [OBRA Chat] opening a can of worms: deep dish tubular rims?

Hi All,

Okay, how soon until the next Cross season!?  :)  Any one wanna produce a Spring 'Cross season?  :)

Here's my question - I'm looking at building up a set of wheels for my 'cross bike for 2011.  This year, I used a standard/average clincher wheel set (SRAM X9 hubs, WTB Speed Disc rims, etc).   For next year, I'd like to ride a deep dish tubular set up.  I'm seeking input for:

* rims
* deep dish
* tubular
* light weight, but sturdy (willing to sacrifice a little weight for durability)
* rider size of 6'3" and 205 lbs
* using disc hubs/disc brakes
* open to any materials
* tubular tires
* a great all-around tubular tire for the Portland and surrounding areas, all season long
* emphasis on traction in our muddier seasons, over speed

I'm most interested in direct experiences any one has had with tubular deep dish rims.    Cost is not a huge consideration - but I'm not willing to spend obscene amounts of money.  Thanks for any input or thoughts! 

~~ shane

--
"Opportunities multiply as they are seized."   - Sun Tzu

Shane Gibson

Hi All,

Okay, how soon until the next Cross season!? :) Any one wanna produce a
Spring 'Cross season? :)

Here's my question - I'm looking at building up a set of wheels for my
'cross bike for 2011. This year, I used a standard/average clincher wheel
set (SRAM X9 hubs, WTB Speed Disc rims, etc). For next year, I'd like to
ride a deep dish tubular set up. I'm seeking input for:

- rims
- deep dish
- tubular
- light weight, but sturdy (willing to sacrifice a little weight for
durability)
- rider size of 6'3" and 205 lbs
- using disc hubs/disc brakes
- open to any materials
- tubular tires
- a great all-around tubular tire for the Portland and surrounding
areas, all season long
- emphasis on traction in our muddier seasons, over speed

I'm most interested in direct experiences any one has had with tubular deep
dish rims. Cost is not a huge consideration - but I'm not willing to
spend obscene amounts of money. Thanks for any input or thoughts!

~~ shane

--
"Opportunities multiply as they are seized." - Sun Tzu