jennifer levo

Scott... I'd say until they provide adequate other parking places for your bike (which they have failed to do currently) keep parking your bike inside. I once had to lock my bike up vertically to the power meters and such outside (which didn't look too classy)... i think a bike locked to the backside of a stairwell or large pipe that is not in a travel pattern, is a lot less invasive. -jenncarpe diem!jennlevo.com
Message: 11Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 22:58:09 -0800From: Scott Mares To: obra@list.obra.orgSubject: [OBRA Chat] legal question Bikes in BuildingsMessage-ID: <4d09b88138773_173794067c1bf41083e@lizard.obra.org.tmail>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8Ok so, I work as a Personal trainer/coach at a gym and I have been riding my bike to work for a while and have been bringing it inside the building that my gym is at. All of a sudden the gym has posted signs that its against the buildings safety code to have bikes in the building. Can anyone shed some light on this? I think its BS and I think that they made the whole thing up.

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

It would seem logical the building code where you live would be the deciding
factor on this issue. Not sure if the state code supersedes county/city.
Fire sprinklers are amazing how much water they move and fire they can
suppress! They can save lives and go a long way with saving building and
possessions. Some things are lost to water damage, the fire is prevented
from spreading.
run
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: "Ron and Dorothy Strasser"
Cc: "Mark J. Ginsberg" ; "OBRA"

Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] legal question Bikes in Buildings

>
> The irony I keep thinking about while reading this excellent thread is
> that, where I live, the fire department is locked in a serious dispute
> with the business community over sprinklers. The Fire Chief wants
> sprinklers in new or remodeled buildings, but the business community
> claims that sprinklers cost too much. This is ever with some really good
> evident presented by the Fire Chief that sprinklers save lives.
>
> And this only a couple months after one of our business leaders lost his
> home and a valuable art collection to a fire.
>
> Go figure...
>
> == Eric
>
>
>> Scott and anyone else interested.
>> As an ex-custodian in schools I can say you have gotten some good advice
>> so far. One thing I can tell you regarding hallways and exits is they
>> need to be kept clear for egress. Different spaces or rooms in buildings
>> have different regulations as well. I have worked with fire marshals
>> regarding this and in all honesty it comes down to the numbers (and there
>> are many depending on the building, use etc.). You hear about people
>> trying to get out of a building in a panic and it is no joke the pathways
>> need to be open. The fire code (if this is the reason for banning bikes)
>> has little flex.
>> I think the best idea is to work with management to get a room for bike
>> parking (as was suggested)....I am sure BTA can provide them with lots of
>> common sense, health-related, clean air reasons to make that happen. If
>> you get that set aside, work to keep it well organized as the fire
>> marshals do look at how rooms (regular old four walls and ceiling type)
>> are used with regard to fire safety as well. Leave a good open path to
>> the exit. These marshals have tough, important jobs. They can be so
>> willing to work with people....as long as the people are working toward
>> safety.
>> ron
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Mark J. Ginsberg
>>
>
>

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

Oh Man and Woman! That picture is not what any Fireman (or person needing to go through the hall) would want to see or deal with.... especially when the hall was full of smoke!
The fire marshal would eat that alive! Even though the gathering may have been in a larger space like a gym or auditorium near where these bikes were resting..... I can guarantee the exits into that cluttered hallway are considered as crucial for escape from danger as the probable other exits from the meeting space. If you think about it...it makes logical sense. We tend to be overconfident with regard to getting out of a building.... but the thing is one really does not know which direction we may be forced (in an emergency) to go for an exit. That hallway might have been the only exit for a good number of people. I am sure all went well, but anyone who has crashed on a bike, knows how fast and unexpected disaster can take place.
Some rules (fire codes) really do make common sense. Especially in an emergency.
On the other hand, we all probably have detectable amounts of fire retardant chemicals in our blood because so many are used in common everyday things we use. This concerns me most with children who have the lowest body weight.
On a lighter note we could worry about Alberto Contador having too much retardant in his blood with such low body weight.... or would that be a masking chemical? As usual I fall into the Ken Nordine vein of mind function.
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan H
To: Ron and Dorothy Strasser ; Mark J. Ginsberg ; OBRA
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] legal question Bikes in Buildings

Like this?
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron and Dorothy Strasser
To: Mark J. Ginsberg ; OBRA
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] legal question Bikes in Buildings

Scott and anyone else interested.
As an ex-custodian in schools I can say you have gotten some good advice so far. One thing I can tell you regarding hallways and exits is they need to be kept clear for egress. Different spaces or rooms in buildings have different regulations as well. I have worked with fire marshals regarding this and in all honesty it comes down to the numbers (and there are many depending on the building, use etc.). You hear about people trying to get out of a building in a panic and it is no joke the pathways need to be open. The fire code (if this is the reason for banning bikes) has little flex.
I think the best idea is to work with management to get a room for bike parking (as was suggested)....I am sure BTA can provide them with lots of common sense, health-related, clean air reasons to make that happen. If you get that set aside, work to keep it well organized as the fire marshals do look at how rooms (regular old four walls and ceiling type) are used with regard to fire safety as well. Leave a good open path to the exit. These marshals have tough, important jobs. They can be so willing to work with people....as long as the people are working toward safety.
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark J. Ginsberg
To: OBRA
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] legal question Bikes in Buildings

This type of discussion is common.

I'd start at the beginning, and ask the "no sayer" where you can go read the rules they are relying on.

Then ask if they want to find a better place for bikes or if they just think it will be a "no bikes" building.

this helps to frame the issues.

For years, nay, generations dear friends, most office towers in Gotham (nee NYC) said "no bikes in our building" and the excuses were legion (many).
Then there was the NYC transit strike. And thousands of people biked to work. All those office buildings suddenly found space to park all those bikes in their buildings b/c they had to.

so there is what's possible and then on the other hand there is what's allowed.

I'd also talk with the BTA about helping you

Mark J. Ginsberg
Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
Attorneys At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "eric939@redshift.com"
To: Per Bjesse
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; Scott Mares
Sent: Thu, December 16, 2010 10:36:34 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] legal question Bikes in Buildings

The Fire Code should be easy to find, and ask somebody with your local
fire department for what things really mean.

== Eric

> We had a similar thing in our building (in Hillsboro), and were told
> that keeping bikes in walkways violated fire code, and was hence a
> liability for the building. This may or may not have been true, and it
> could also be down to interpretation of the rules; I am sure rules did
> not talk directly about bikes, but objects blocking or impeding
> egress. Now, if the building people or management actually perceive a
> liability and have started to address it my guess is that you can not
> do much; they are probably now unable to reverse their position no
> matter how pissed you are as they could be in big trouble if there is
> a fire, they had admitted they were concerned but got talked out of
> it, and someone gets hurt.
>
> This is obviously not legal or fire code advice, just some speculation
> on my part.
>
> Regards,
> -Per
>
>
> On 15 December 2010 22:58, Scott Mares wrote:
>> Ok so, I work as a Personal trainer/coach at a gym and I have been
>> riding my bike to work for a while and have been bringing it inside the
>> building that my gym is at. All of a sudden the gym has posted signs
>> that its against the buildings safety code to have bikes in the
>> building. Can anyone shed some light on this? I think its BS and I
>> think that they made the whole thing up.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

eric939@redshift.com

The irony I keep thinking about while reading this excellent thread is
that, where I live, the fire department is locked in a serious dispute
with the business community over sprinklers. The Fire Chief wants
sprinklers in new or remodeled buildings, but the business community
claims that sprinklers cost too much. This is ever with some really good
evident presented by the Fire Chief that sprinklers save lives.

And this only a couple months after one of our business leaders lost his
home and a valuable art collection to a fire.

Go figure...

== Eric

> Scott and anyone else interested.
> As an ex-custodian in schools I can say you have gotten some good advice
> so far. One thing I can tell you regarding hallways and exits is they
> need to be kept clear for egress. Different spaces or rooms in buildings
> have different regulations as well. I have worked with fire marshals
> regarding this and in all honesty it comes down to the numbers (and there
> are many depending on the building, use etc.). You hear about people
> trying to get out of a building in a panic and it is no joke the pathways
> need to be open. The fire code (if this is the reason for banning bikes)
> has little flex.
> I think the best idea is to work with management to get a room for bike
> parking (as was suggested)....I am sure BTA can provide them with lots of
> common sense, health-related, clean air reasons to make that happen. If
> you get that set aside, work to keep it well organized as the fire
> marshals do look at how rooms (regular old four walls and ceiling type)
> are used with regard to fire safety as well. Leave a good open path to
> the exit. These marshals have tough, important jobs. They can be so
> willing to work with people....as long as the people are working toward
> safety.
> ron
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mark J. Ginsberg
>

eric aldinger

The only bit I have to add to this is this. One building I worked in
was concerned with the damage our many bikes were doing to the new
carpet. They told us not keep our bikes in the office. When engaged
with the question of where can we put our bikes, the building pointed
to the over crowded secure parking in the loading dock. When asked for
an alternate secure location, a suitable covered area within
reasonable distance from the main enterance was found. Our company had
to pay to have it secured.

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Randy Dreiling wrote:
> I would 2nd all that.
> Has a person that works with cities on issues I would say:
> Likely an OSHA or insurance person came by and said things had to change.
> Also could be that some dumb ass was riding their bike around in the
> building and ran into someone...I have heard of this happening too.  Who's
> knows, but normally there is a reason why this happens.
> Ron's idea is great about finding a room for bikes.
> Good luck
>
> Randy Dreiling
>
> Owner - Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
>
> Promoter - Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ron and Dorothy Strasser
> To: Mark J. Ginsberg ; OBRA
> Sent: Thu, December 16, 2010 11:28:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] legal question Bikes in Buildings
>
> Scott and anyone else interested.
> As an ex-custodian in schools I can say you have gotten some good advice so
> far.  One thing I can tell you regarding hallways and exits is they need to
> be kept clear for egress.  Different spaces or rooms in buildings have
> different regulations as well.  I have worked with fire marshals regarding
> this and in all honesty it comes down to the numbers (and there are many
> depending on the building, use etc.).  You hear about people trying to get
> out of a building in a panic and it is no joke the pathways need to be
> open.  The fire code (if this is the reason for banning bikes) has little
> flex.
> I think the best idea is to work with management to get a room for bike
> parking (as was suggested)....I am sure BTA can provide them with lots of
> common sense, health-related, clean air reasons to make that happen.  If you
> get that set aside, work to keep it well organized as the fire marshals do
> look at how rooms (regular old four walls and ceiling type) are used with
> regard to fire safety as well.  Leave a good open path to the exit.  These
> marshals have tough, important jobs.  They can be so willing to work with
> people....as long as the people are working toward safety.
> ron
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mark J. Ginsberg
> To: OBRA
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] legal question Bikes in Buildings
> This type of discussion is common.
>
> I'd start at the beginning, and ask the "no sayer" where you can go read the
> rules they are relying on.
>
> Then ask if they want to find a better place for bikes or if they just think
> it will be a "no bikes" building.
>
> this helps to frame the issues.
>
> For years, nay, generations dear friends, most office towers in Gotham (nee
> NYC) said "no bikes in our building" and the excuses were legion (many).
> Then there was the NYC transit strike. And thousands of people biked to
> work. All those office buildings suddenly found space to park all those
> bikes in their buildings b/c they had to.
>
> so there is what's possible and then on the other hand there is what's
> allowed.
>
> I'd also talk with the BTA about helping you
>
> Mark J. Ginsberg
> Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
> Attorneys At Law
> 1216 SE Belmont St.
> Portland, OR 97214
> (503) 542-3000
> Fax (503) 233-6874
> markjginsberg@yahoo.com
> www.bikesafetylaw.com
>
> ________________________________
> From: "eric939@redshift.com"
> To: Per Bjesse
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org; Scott Mares
> Sent: Thu, December 16, 2010 10:36:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] legal question Bikes in Buildings
>
>
> The Fire Code should be easy to find, and ask somebody with your local
> fire department for what things really mean.
>
> == Eric
>
>
>> We had a similar thing in our building (in Hillsboro), and were told
>> that keeping bikes in walkways violated fire code, and was hence a
>> liability for the building. This may or may not have been true, and it
>> could also be down to interpretation of the rules; I am sure rules did
>> not talk directly about bikes, but objects blocking or impeding
>> egress. Now, if the building people or management actually perceive a
>> liability and have started to address it my guess is that you can not
>> do much; they are probably now unable to reverse their position no
>> matter how pissed you are as they could be in big trouble if there is
>> a fire, they had admitted they were concerned but got talked out of
>> it, and someone gets hurt.
>>
>> This is obviously not legal or fire code advice, just some speculation
>> on my part.
>>
>> Regards,
>> -Per
>>
>>
>> On 15 December 2010 22:58, Scott Mares wrote:
>>> Ok so, I work as a Personal trainer/coach at a gym and I have been
>>> riding my bike to work for a while and have been bringing it inside the
>>> building that my gym is at.  All of a sudden the gym has posted signs
>>> that its against the buildings safety code to have bikes in the
>>> building.  Can anyone shed some light on this?  I think its BS and I
>>> think that they made the whole thing up.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Eric Aldinger

Randy Dreiling

I would 2nd all that.
Has a person that works with cities on issues I would say:
Likely an OSHA or insurance person came by and said things had to change.
Also could be that some dumb ass was riding their bike around in the building
and ran into someone...I have heard of this happening too. Who's knows, but
normally there is a reason why this happens.
Ron's idea is great about finding a room for bikes.
Good luck
Randy Dreiling

Owner - Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com

Promoter - Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com

________________________________
From: Ron and Dorothy Strasser
To: Mark J. Ginsberg ; OBRA
Sent: Thu, December 16, 2010 11:28:09 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] legal question Bikes in Buildings

Scott and anyone else interested.
As an ex-custodian in schools I can say you have gotten some good advice so
far. One thing I can tell you regarding hallways and exits is they need to be
kept clear for egress. Different spaces or rooms in buildings have different
regulations as well. I have worked with fire marshals regarding this and in
all honesty it comes down to the numbers (and there are many depending on the
building, use etc.). You hear about people trying to get out of a building in
a panic and it is no joke the pathways need to be open. The fire code (if this
is the reason for banning bikes) has little flex.

I think the best idea is to work with management to get a room for bike parking
(as was suggested)....I am sure BTA can provide them with lots of common sense,
health-related, clean air reasons to make that happen. If you get that set
aside, work to keep it well organized as the fire marshals do look at how rooms
(regular old four walls and ceiling type) are used with regard to fire safety
as well. Leave a good open path to the exit. These marshals have tough,
important jobs. They can be so willing to work with people....as long as the
people are working toward safety.

ron
----- Original Message -----
>From: Mark J. Ginsberg
>To: OBRA
>Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:46 AM
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] legal question Bikes in Buildings
>
>
>This type of discussion is common.
>
>I'd start at the beginning, and ask the "no sayer" where you can go read the
>rules they are relying on.
>
>Then ask if they want to find a better place for bikes or if they just think
>it will be a "no bikes" building.
>
>this helps to frame the issues.
>
>For years, nay, generations dear friends, most office towers in Gotham (nee
>NYC) said "no bikes in our building" and the excuses were legion (many).
>Then there was the NYC transit strike. And thousands of people biked to work.
>All those office buildings suddenly found space to park all those bikes in
>their buildings b/c they had to.
>
>so there is what's possible and then on the other hand there is what's
>allowed.
>
>I'd also talk with the BTA about helping you
>
> Mark J. Ginsberg
>Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
>Attorneys At Law
>1216 SE Belmont St.
>Portland, OR 97214
>(503) 542-3000
>Fax (503) 233-6874
>markjginsberg@yahoo.com
>www.bikesafetylaw.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: "eric939@redshift.com"
>To: Per Bjesse
>Cc: obra@list.obra.org; Scott Mares
>Sent: Thu, December 16, 2010 10:36:34 AM
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] legal question Bikes in Buildings
>
>
>The Fire Code should be easy to find, and ask somebody with your local
>fire department for what things really mean.
>
>== Eric
>
>
>> We had a similar thing in our building (in Hillsboro), and were told
>> that keeping bikes in walkways violated fire code, and was hence a
>> liability for the building. This may or may not have been true, and it
>> could also be down to interpretation of the rules; I am sure rules did
>> not talk directly about bikes, but objects blocking or impeding
>> egress. Now, if the building people or management actually perceive a
>> liability and have started to address it my guess is that you can not
>> do much; they are probably now unable to reverse their position no
>> matter how pissed you are as they could be in big trouble if there is
>> a fire, they had admitted they were concerned but got talked out of
>> it, and someone gets hurt.
>>
>> This is obviously not legal or fire code advice, just some speculation
>> on my part.
>>
>> Regards,
>> -Per
>>
>>
>> On 15 December 2010 22:58, Scott Mares wrote:
>>> Ok so, I work as a Personal trainer/coach at a gym and I have been
>>> riding my bike to work for a while and have been bringing it inside the
>>> building that my gym is at. All of a sudden the gym has posted signs
>>> that its against the buildings safety code to have bikes in the
>>> building. Can anyone shed some light on this? I think its BS and I
>>> think that they made the whole thing up.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
________________________________
_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Jimmy Gantz

Scott
Is the building located in Portland? If not then I would find the applicable zoning code and look up the bicycle parking standards. Most areas in Oregon are similar or based on Portland standards.

If Yes - Portland zoning code requires buildings to provide short term and long term bicycle parking based a buildings primary use and its square footage.

For you, long term bicycle parking is for commuters who generally stay at a site for hours and must be a secure weather protected place. By zoning code, long term does not have to be provided on site, but within a reasonable distance to promote bicycle use.

Assuming the building is a gym/office, in zoning terms that is considered commercial use/retail sales/service. According to Chapter 33.266 of the Portland Zoning code, Table 266-6 a commercial/retail space is required to have 2 short term spaces per 12,000 square feet and 2 long terms spaces per 5,000 square feet of net building area(which means actual square feet of space used not total building)....

So if you want to dig into this - step one: get a floor plan from the City of Portland. All buildings must obtain a permit and those permit drawings are available to the public at the Building Department. Or go to Portland Maps.com, find the building by address and then find its overall square footage there. Even if the gym is part of a larger building, that building must provide longterm parking somewhere.

If you need assistance I will be glad to help you find any of this information. I don't work for the city but am an architect who has to deal with the zoning code all the time. Hope this helps

cyclocrosser/architect/commuter
Jimmy G

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

Scott and anyone else interested.
As an ex-custodian in schools I can say you have gotten some good advice so far. One thing I can tell you regarding hallways and exits is they need to be kept clear for egress. Different spaces or rooms in buildings have different regulations as well. I have worked with fire marshals regarding this and in all honesty it comes down to the numbers (and there are many depending on the building, use etc.). You hear about people trying to get out of a building in a panic and it is no joke the pathways need to be open. The fire code (if this is the reason for banning bikes) has little flex.
I think the best idea is to work with management to get a room for bike parking (as was suggested)....I am sure BTA can provide them with lots of common sense, health-related, clean air reasons to make that happen. If you get that set aside, work to keep it well organized as the fire marshals do look at how rooms (regular old four walls and ceiling type) are used with regard to fire safety as well. Leave a good open path to the exit. These marshals have tough, important jobs. They can be so willing to work with people....as long as the people are working toward safety.
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark J. Ginsberg
To: OBRA
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] legal question Bikes in Buildings

This type of discussion is common.

I'd start at the beginning, and ask the "no sayer" where you can go read the rules they are relying on.

Then ask if they want to find a better place for bikes or if they just think it will be a "no bikes" building.

this helps to frame the issues.

For years, nay, generations dear friends, most office towers in Gotham (nee NYC) said "no bikes in our building" and the excuses were legion (many).
Then there was the NYC transit strike. And thousands of people biked to work. All those office buildings suddenly found space to park all those bikes in their buildings b/c they had to.

so there is what's possible and then on the other hand there is what's allowed.

I'd also talk with the BTA about helping you

Mark J. Ginsberg
Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
Attorneys At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "eric939@redshift.com"
To: Per Bjesse
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; Scott Mares
Sent: Thu, December 16, 2010 10:36:34 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] legal question Bikes in Buildings

The Fire Code should be easy to find, and ask somebody with your local
fire department for what things really mean.

== Eric

> We had a similar thing in our building (in Hillsboro), and were told
> that keeping bikes in walkways violated fire code, and was hence a
> liability for the building. This may or may not have been true, and it
> could also be down to interpretation of the rules; I am sure rules did
> not talk directly about bikes, but objects blocking or impeding
> egress. Now, if the building people or management actually perceive a
> liability and have started to address it my guess is that you can not
> do much; they are probably now unable to reverse their position no
> matter how pissed you are as they could be in big trouble if there is
> a fire, they had admitted they were concerned but got talked out of
> it, and someone gets hurt.
>
> This is obviously not legal or fire code advice, just some speculation
> on my part.
>
> Regards,
> -Per
>
>
> On 15 December 2010 22:58, Scott Mares wrote:
>> Ok so, I work as a Personal trainer/coach at a gym and I have been
>> riding my bike to work for a while and have been bringing it inside the
>> building that my gym is at. All of a sudden the gym has posted signs
>> that its against the buildings safety code to have bikes in the
>> building. Can anyone shed some light on this? I think its BS and I
>> think that they made the whole thing up.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

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Mark J. Ginsberg

This type of discussion is common.

I'd start at the beginning, and ask the "no sayer" where you can go read the
rules they are relying on.

Then ask if they want to find a better place for bikes or if they just think it
will be a "no bikes" building.

this helps to frame the issues.

For years, nay, generations dear friends, most office towers in Gotham (nee NYC)
said "no bikes in our building" and the excuses were legion (many).
Then there was the NYC transit strike. And thousands of people biked to work.
All those office buildings suddenly found space to park all those bikes in their
buildings b/c they had to.

so there is what's possible and then on the other hand there is what's allowed.

I'd also talk with the BTA about helping you

Mark J. Ginsberg
Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
Attorneys At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

________________________________
From: "eric939@redshift.com"
To: Per Bjesse
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; Scott Mares
Sent: Thu, December 16, 2010 10:36:34 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] legal question Bikes in Buildings

The Fire Code should be easy to find, and ask somebody with your local
fire department for what things really mean.

== Eric

> We had a similar thing in our building (in Hillsboro), and were told
> that keeping bikes in walkways violated fire code, and was hence a
> liability for the building. This may or may not have been true, and it
> could also be down to interpretation of the rules; I am sure rules did
> not talk directly about bikes, but objects blocking or impeding
> egress. Now, if the building people or management actually perceive a
> liability and have started to address it my guess is that you can not
> do much; they are probably now unable to reverse their position no
> matter how pissed you are as they could be in big trouble if there is
> a fire, they had admitted they were concerned but got talked out of
> it, and someone gets hurt.
>
> This is obviously not legal or fire code advice, just some speculation
> on my part.
>
> Regards,
> -Per
>
>
> On 15 December 2010 22:58, Scott Mares wrote:
>> Ok so, I work as a Personal trainer/coach at a gym and I have been
>> riding my bike to work for a while and have been bringing it inside the
>> building that my gym is at. All of a sudden the gym has posted signs
>> that its against the buildings safety code to have bikes in the
>> building. Can anyone shed some light on this? I think its BS and I
>> think that they made the whole thing up.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

eric939@redshift.com

The Fire Code should be easy to find, and ask somebody with your local
fire department for what things really mean.

== Eric

> We had a similar thing in our building (in Hillsboro), and were told
> that keeping bikes in walkways violated fire code, and was hence a
> liability for the building. This may or may not have been true, and it
> could also be down to interpretation of the rules; I am sure rules did
> not talk directly about bikes, but objects blocking or impeding
> egress. Now, if the building people or management actually perceive a
> liability and have started to address it my guess is that you can not
> do much; they are probably now unable to reverse their position no
> matter how pissed you are as they could be in big trouble if there is
> a fire, they had admitted they were concerned but got talked out of
> it, and someone gets hurt.
>
> This is obviously not legal or fire code advice, just some speculation
> on my part.
>
> Regards,
> -Per
>
>
> On 15 December 2010 22:58, Scott Mares wrote:
>> Ok so, I work as a Personal trainer/coach at a gym and I have been
>> riding my bike to work for a while and have been bringing it inside the
>> building that my gym is at.  All of a sudden the gym has posted signs
>> that its against the buildings safety code to have bikes in the
>> building.  Can anyone shed some light on this?  I think its BS and I
>> think that they made the whole thing up.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Per Bjesse

We had a similar thing in our building (in Hillsboro), and were told
that keeping bikes in walkways violated fire code, and was hence a
liability for the building. This may or may not have been true, and it
could also be down to interpretation of the rules; I am sure rules did
not talk directly about bikes, but objects blocking or impeding
egress. Now, if the building people or management actually perceive a
liability and have started to address it my guess is that you can not
do much; they are probably now unable to reverse their position no
matter how pissed you are as they could be in big trouble if there is
a fire, they had admitted they were concerned but got talked out of
it, and someone gets hurt.

This is obviously not legal or fire code advice, just some speculation
on my part.

Regards,
-Per

On 15 December 2010 22:58, Scott Mares wrote:
> Ok so, I work as a Personal trainer/coach at a gym and I have been riding my bike to work for a while and have been bringing it inside the building that my gym is at.  All of a sudden the gym has posted signs that its against the buildings safety code to have bikes in the building.  Can anyone shed some light on this?  I think its BS and I think that they made the whole thing up.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Scott Mares

Ok so, I work as a Personal trainer/coach at a gym and I have been riding my bike to work for a while and have been bringing it inside the building that my gym is at. All of a sudden the gym has posted signs that its against the buildings safety code to have bikes in the building. Can anyone shed some light on this? I think its BS and I think that they made the whole thing up.