Master's Categories - again

Pat Sagers

2002-08-08

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I knew that was coming. I live in Bend - central Oregon. Central Oregon

really needs something like this. Most of the events are hosted by one or

two of the local bike shops in town. An actual club that isn't direclty

affiliated with one of these bike shops doesn't exist. At least not that I

am aware, anyway. I'd do it, but I have a hard enough time just fitting the

little training I do into my day. Central Oregon is growing very fast and I

think that eventually someone will step forward and champion the formation

of a club. That's what I'm hoping for.

Thanks

Pat



-----Original Message-----

From: Tom Durkin [mailto:tjdu-@teleport.com]

Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:18 PM

To: wind-@hevanet.com; OBRA Remailer

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again





Great idea, find a place and do it.



----- Original Message -----

From: Peter <mailto:wind-@hevanet.com> Drake

To: pat_s-@orcom.com <mailto:pat_s-@orcom.com> ; ob-@topica.com

<mailto:ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:07 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again



Pat,



Sounds great, when are you going to be putting these on? Wednesdays would

be good for me. This issue, of course, falls under the infamous unwritten

OBRA rule (21b or 27b?) "If you don't like it, put on your own race."



Cheers,



Peter Drake



----- Original Message -----

From: Pat <mailto:pat_s-@orcom.com> Sagers

To: 'ob-@topica.com' <mailto:'ob-@topica.com'>

Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 5:00 PM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again





Years ago when I lived in Lake Tahoe, there was a Reno bike club that put on

weekly races. Instead of dealing with all the categories and whether you

were a junior, senior, boy or girl, they used time handicaps. The races

started in May and went through to September. They raced once a week on

Thursday nights and rotated between 3 road courses and 1 crit course. The

time handicaps were divided into 3 minute increments starting with 0 -

scratch and progressed up to 18 minutes. The race organizer would use the

prior weeks results to set your handicap group. If you hadn't raced before

I think he conducted a brief interview and then placed you in a group.

Typically the scratch group were all USCF Cat 1/2 riders and then very

strong riders in the 3 minute group and so on. If you won your group, you

would be moved up the next week. The idea was to have everyone finish the

race at the same time.



Personally, I had a great time with these races. I never could get time off

to travel to a race, so these races satisfied my competitive desire. In the

whole scheme of things, they didn't really mean anything. No organization

recognized them, so you couldn't carry your reputation to a race and have it

mean anything, but it got alot of folks racing that otherwise would never

show up to a race.



Another aspect that I liked was that the time groups formed teams. For

instance, if you were in the 6 minute group, your group would be motivated

to work together to catch the 9 minute group and to keep from getting caught

by the 3 minute or scratch groups. It was great fun and I have missed

participating in them since.



I don't think the category designations in Masters men's and women's races

will be able to please everyone until the numbers are there. I think the

answer is in providing more events like the one I described. Imagine

getting a 15 minute head start with 10 other riders whose fitness levels are

very close to yours. That would really take the fear out of getting dropped

and having to ride the race alone.



Pat Sagers



Systems Engineer

Orcom Solutions, Inc

(541) 389-0120 x1554 voice

(541) 389-8267 fax







NOTICE: This communication may contain proprietary or other confidential

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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=336302615-08082002>I knew

that was coming.  I live in Bend - central Oregon.  Central Oregon

really needs something like this.  Most of the events are hosted by one or

two of the local bike shops in town.  An actual club that isn't direclty

affiliated with one of these bike shops doesn't exist.  At least not that I

am aware, anyway.  I'd do it, but I have a hard enough time

just fitting the little training I do into my day.  Central Oregon is

growing very fast and I think that eventually someone will step forward and

champion the formation of a club.  That's what I'm hoping

for.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN

class=336302615-08082002>Thanks</SPAN></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN

class=336302615-08082002>Pat</SPAN></FONT></DIV>

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style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma

size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Tom Durkin

[mailto:tjdu-@teleport.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:18

PM<BR><B>To:</B> wind-@hevanet.com; OBRA Remailer<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:

[OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Great idea, find a place and do it.</FONT></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

    <DIV

    style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>

    <A title=w-@hevanet.com href="mailto:wind-@hevanet.com">Peter

    Drake</A> </DIV>

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pa-@orcom.com

    href="mailto:pat_s-@orcom.com">pat_s-@orcom.com</A> ; <A

    title-@topica.com href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</A>

    </DIV>

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:07

    PM</DIV>

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA Chat] Master's

    Categories - again</DIV>

    <DIV><BR></DIV>

    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Pat,</FONT></DIV>

    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sounds great, when are you going to be putting

    these on?  Wednesdays would be good for me.  This issue, of

    course, falls under the infamous unwritten OBRA rule (21b or 27b?) "If you

    don't like it, put on your own race."</FONT></DIV>

    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cheers,</FONT></DIV>

    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Peter Drake</FONT></DIV>

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      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

      <DIV

      style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>

      <A title=pa-@orcom.com href="mailto:pat_s-@orcom.com">Pat

      Sagers</A> </DIV>

      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title-@topica.com

      href="mailto:'ob-@topica.com'">'ob-@topica.com'</A> </DIV>

      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 07, 2002 5:00

      PM</DIV>

      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [OBRA Chat] Master's

      Categories - again</DIV>

      <DIV><BR></DIV>

      <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Years ago when I lived in Lake Tahoe, there was

      a Reno bike club that put on weekly races.  Instead of dealing with

      all the categories and whether you were a junior, senior, boy or girl,

      they used time handicaps.  The races started in May and went through

      to September.  They raced once a week on Thursday nights and rotated

      between 3 road courses and 1 crit course.  The time handicaps were

      divided into 3 minute increments starting with 0 - scratch and progressed

      up to 18 minutes.  The race organizer would use the prior weeks

      results to set your handicap group.  If you hadn't raced before I

      think he conducted a brief interview and then placed you in a group. 

      Typically the scratch group were all USCF Cat 1/2 riders and then very

      strong riders in the 3 minute group and so on.  If you won your

      group, you would be moved up the next week.  The idea was to have

      everyone finish the race at the same time.  </FONT></P>

      <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Personally, I had a great time with these

      races.  I never could get time off to travel to a race, so these

      races satisfied my competitive desire.  In the whole scheme of

      things, they didn't really mean anything.  No organization recognized

      them, so you couldn't carry your reputation to a race and have it mean

      anything, but it got alot of folks racing that otherwise would never show

      up to a race.  </FONT></P>

      <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Another aspect that I liked was that the time

      groups formed teams.  For instance, if you were in the 6 minute

      group, your group would be motivated to work together to catch the 9

      minute group and to keep from getting caught by the 3 minute or scratch

      groups.  It was great fun and I have missed participating in them

      since.  </FONT></P>

      <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>I don't think the category designations in

      Masters men's and women's races will be able to please everyone until the

      numbers are there.  I think the answer is in providing more events

      like the one I described.  Imagine getting a 15 minute head start

      with 10 other riders whose fitness levels are very close to yours. 

      That would really take the fear out of getting dropped and having to ride

      the race alone.</FONT></P>

      <P><B><I><FONT face=Arial>Pat Sagers</FONT></I></B><I></I> <BR><FONT

      face=Arial> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Systems

      Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Orcom Solutions, Inc</FONT>

      <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>(541) 389-0120 x1554</FONT><I></I><I> <FONT

      face=Arial size=1>voice</FONT></I> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>(541)

      389-8267</FONT><I></I><I> <FONT face=Arial size=1>fax</FONT></I>

      </P><BR><BR>

      <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>NOTICE:  This communication may contain

      proprietary or other confidential business information of Orcom Solutions,

      Inc.  If you are not the intended recipient or believe that you may

      have received this communication in error, please reply to the sender

      indicating that fact and delete the copy you received.  In addition,

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mike.m-@obra.org

2002-08-08

Pat Sagers [mailto:pat_s-@orcom.com] described a Handicap race series in

Tahoe.



Some of us that have been around here for a long time will recognize that

the Handicap format was used at PIR for many years until the total rider

number became too high to make this practical any longer. I think Handicap

race formats are excellent for running disparate groups at the same time.

As Pat notes, they also teach racers to ride cooperatively, something that

even many Cat 1/2 riders currently do very poorly. I would encourage more

race organizers to run such events.



It is also important that everyone recognizes that the individual race

organizers may construct their fields however they want, within reasonable

parameters. You can choose to run a race for only guys born on Tuesday if

you like. Different organizers have different priorities that determine how

they separate their fields. As a racer you get to decide if you want to

attend.



Mike Murray



Tom Durkin

2002-08-07

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Master's Categories - againGreat idea, find a place and do it.

----- Original Message -----

From: Peter Drake

To: pat_s-@orcom.com ; ob-@topica.com

Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:07 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again





Pat,

   

Sounds great, when are you going to be putting these on? Wednesdays would be good for me. This issue, of course, falls under the infamous unwritten OBRA rule (21b or 27b?) "If you don't like it, put on your own race."

   

Cheers,

   

Peter Drake

    ----- Original Message -----

    From: Pat Sagers

    To: 'ob-@topica.com'

    Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 5:00 PM

    Subject: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again





    Years ago when I lived in Lake Tahoe, there was a Reno bike club that put on weekly races. Instead of dealing with all the categories and whether you were a junior, senior, boy or girl, they used time handicaps. The races started in May and went through to September. They raced once a week on Thursday nights and rotated between 3 road courses and 1 crit course. The time handicaps were divided into 3 minute increments starting with 0 - scratch and progressed up to 18 minutes. The race organizer would use the prior weeks results to set your handicap group. If you hadn't raced before I think he conducted a brief interview and then placed you in a group. Typically the scratch group were all USCF Cat 1/2 riders and then very strong riders in the 3 minute group and so on. If you won your group, you would be moved up the next week. The idea was to have everyone finish the race at the same time.



    Personally, I had a great time with these races. I never could get time off to travel to a race, so these races satisfied my competitive desire. In the whole scheme of things, they didn't really mean anything. No organization recognized them, so you couldn't carry your reputation to a race and have it mean anything, but it got alot of folks racing that otherwise would never show up to a race.



    Another aspect that I liked was that the time groups formed teams. For instance, if you were in the 6 minute group, your group would be motivated to work together to catch the 9 minute group and to keep from getting caught by the 3 minute or scratch groups. It was great fun and I have missed participating in them since.



    I don't think the category designations in Masters men's and women's races will be able to please everyone until the numbers are there. I think the answer is in providing more events like the one I described. Imagine getting a 15 minute head start with 10 other riders whose fitness levels are very close to yours. That would really take the fear out of getting dropped and having to ride the race alone.



    Pat Sagers

      

    Systems Engineer

    Orcom Solutions, Inc

    (541) 389-0120 x1554 voice

    (541) 389-8267 fax









    NOTICE: This communication may contain proprietary or other confidential business information of Orcom Solutions, Inc. If you are not the intended recipient or believe that you may have received this communication in error, please reply to the sender indicating that fact and delete the copy you received. In addition, you should not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Thank you.







To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Great idea, find a place and do it.</FONT></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE

style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

<DIV

style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>

<A href="mailto:wind-@hevanet.com" title=w-@hevanet.com>Peter

Drake</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:pat_s-@orcom.com"

title=pa-@orcom.com>pat_s-@orcom.com</A> ; <A

href="mailto:ob-@topica.com" title-@topica.com>ob-@topica.com</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:07

PM</DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA Chat] Master's

Categories - again</DIV>

<DIV><BR></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Pat,</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sounds great, when are you going to be putting

these on?  Wednesdays would be good for me.  This issue, of course,

falls under the infamous unwritten OBRA rule (21b or 27b?) "If you don't like

it, put on your own race."</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cheers,</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Peter Drake</FONT></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr

style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

    <DIV

    style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>

    <A href="mailto:pat_s-@orcom.com" title=pa-@orcom.com>Pat

    Sagers</A> </DIV>

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:'ob-@topica.com'"

    title-@topica.com>'ob-@topica.com'</A> </DIV>

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 07, 2002 5:00

    PM</DIV>

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [OBRA Chat] Master's

    Categories - again</DIV>

    <DIV><BR></DIV>

    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Years ago when I lived in Lake Tahoe, there was a

    Reno bike club that put on weekly races.  Instead of dealing with all

    the categories and whether you were a junior, senior, boy or girl, they used

    time handicaps.  The races started in May and went through to

    September.  They raced once a week on Thursday nights and rotated

    between 3 road courses and 1 crit course.  The time handicaps were

    divided into 3 minute increments starting with 0 - scratch and progressed up

    to 18 minutes.  The race organizer would use the prior weeks results to

    set your handicap group.  If you hadn't raced before I think he

    conducted a brief interview and then placed you in a group.  Typically

    the scratch group were all USCF Cat 1/2 riders and then very strong riders

    in the 3 minute group and so on.  If you won your group, you would be

    moved up the next week.  The idea was to have everyone finish the race

    at the same time.  </FONT></P>

    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Personally, I had a great time with these

    races.  I never could get time off to travel to a race, so these races

    satisfied my competitive desire.  In the whole scheme of things, they

    didn't really mean anything.  No organization recognized them, so you

    couldn't carry your reputation to a race and have it mean anything, but it

    got alot of folks racing that otherwise would never show up to a race. 

    </FONT></P>

    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Another aspect that I liked was that the time

    groups formed teams.  For instance, if you were in the 6 minute group,

    your group would be motivated to work together to catch the 9 minute group

    and to keep from getting caught by the 3 minute or scratch groups.  It

    was great fun and I have missed participating in them since. 

    </FONT></P>

    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>I don't think the category designations in

    Masters men's and women's races will be able to please everyone until the

    numbers are there.  I think the answer is in providing more events like

    the one I described.  Imagine getting a 15 minute head start with 10

    other riders whose fitness levels are very close to yours.  That would

    really take the fear out of getting dropped and having to ride the race

    alone.</FONT></P>

    <P><B><I><FONT face=Arial>Pat Sagers</FONT></I></B><I></I> <BR><FONT

    face=Arial> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Systems Engineer</FONT>

    <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Orcom Solutions, Inc</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial

    size=2>(541) 389-0120 x1554</FONT><I></I><I> <FONT face=Arial

    size=1>voice</FONT></I> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>(541)

    389-8267</FONT><I></I><I> <FONT face=Arial size=1>fax</FONT></I>

</P><BR><BR>

    <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>NOTICE:  This communication may contain

    proprietary or other confidential business information of Orcom Solutions,

    Inc.  If you are not the intended recipient or believe that you may

    have received this communication in error, please reply to the sender

    indicating that fact and delete the copy you received.  In addition,

    you should not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the

    information.  Thank you.  </FONT></P><BR><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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Peter Drake

2002-08-07

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Master's Categories - againPat,



Sounds great, when are you going to be putting these on? Wednesdays would be good for me. This issue, of course, falls under the infamous unwritten OBRA rule (21b or 27b?) "If you don't like it, put on your own race."



Cheers,



Peter Drake

----- Original Message -----

From: Pat Sagers

To: 'ob-@topica.com'

Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 5:00 PM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again





Years ago when I lived in Lake Tahoe, there was a Reno bike club that put on weekly races. Instead of dealing with all the categories and whether you were a junior, senior, boy or girl, they used time handicaps. The races started in May and went through to September. They raced once a week on Thursday nights and rotated between 3 road courses and 1 crit course. The time handicaps were divided into 3 minute increments starting with 0 - scratch and progressed up to 18 minutes. The race organizer would use the prior weeks results to set your handicap group. If you hadn't raced before I think he conducted a brief interview and then placed you in a group. Typically the scratch group were all USCF Cat 1/2 riders and then very strong riders in the 3 minute group and so on. If you won your group, you would be moved up the next week. The idea was to have everyone finish the race at the same time.



Personally, I had a great time with these races. I never could get time off to travel to a race, so these races satisfied my competitive desire. In the whole scheme of things, they didn't really mean anything. No organization recognized them, so you couldn't carry your reputation to a race and have it mean anything, but it got alot of folks racing that otherwise would never show up to a race.



Another aspect that I liked was that the time groups formed teams. For instance, if you were in the 6 minute group, your group would be motivated to work together to catch the 9 minute group and to keep from getting caught by the 3 minute or scratch groups. It was great fun and I have missed participating in them since.



I don't think the category designations in Masters men's and women's races will be able to please everyone until the numbers are there. I think the answer is in providing more events like the one I described. Imagine getting a 15 minute head start with 10 other riders whose fitness levels are very close to yours. That would really take the fear out of getting dropped and having to ride the race alone.



Pat Sagers

    

Systems Engineer

Orcom Solutions, Inc

(541) 389-0120 x1554 voice

(541) 389-8267 fax









NOTICE: This communication may contain proprietary or other confidential business information of Orcom Solutions, Inc. If you are not the intended recipient or believe that you may have received this communication in error, please reply to the sender indicating that fact and delete the copy you received. In addition, you should not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Thank you.







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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Pat,</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sounds great, when are you going to be putting

these on?  Wednesdays would be good for me.  This issue, of course,

falls under the infamous unwritten OBRA rule (21b or 27b?) "If you don't like

it, put on your own race."</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cheers,</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Peter Drake</FONT></DIV>

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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

<DIV

style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>

<A title=pa-@orcom.com href="mailto:pat_s-@orcom.com">Pat

Sagers</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title-@topica.com

href="mailto:'ob-@topica.com'">'ob-@topica.com'</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 07, 2002 5:00

PM</DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories

- again</DIV>

<DIV><BR></DIV>

<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Years ago when I lived in Lake Tahoe, there was a

Reno bike club that put on weekly races.  Instead of dealing with all the

categories and whether you were a junior, senior, boy or girl, they used time

handicaps.  The races started in May and went through to September. 

They raced once a week on Thursday nights and rotated between 3 road courses

and 1 crit course.  The time handicaps were divided into 3 minute

increments starting with 0 - scratch and progressed up to 18 minutes. 

The race organizer would use the prior weeks results to set your handicap

group.  If you hadn't raced before I think he conducted a brief interview

and then placed you in a group.  Typically the scratch group were all

USCF Cat 1/2 riders and then very strong riders in the 3 minute group and so

on.  If you won your group, you would be moved up the next week. 

The idea was to have everyone finish the race at the same time. 

</FONT></P>

<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Personally, I had a great time with these

races.  I never could get time off to travel to a race, so these races

satisfied my competitive desire.  In the whole scheme of things, they

didn't really mean anything.  No organization recognized them, so you

couldn't carry your reputation to a race and have it mean anything, but it got

alot of folks racing that otherwise would never show up to a race. 

</FONT></P>

<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Another aspect that I liked was that the time

groups formed teams.  For instance, if you were in the 6 minute group,

your group would be motivated to work together to catch the 9 minute group and

to keep from getting caught by the 3 minute or scratch groups.  It was

great fun and I have missed participating in them since.  </FONT></P>

<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>I don't think the category designations in Masters

men's and women's races will be able to please everyone until the numbers are

there.  I think the answer is in providing more events like the one I

described.  Imagine getting a 15 minute head start with 10 other riders

whose fitness levels are very close to yours.  That would really take the

fear out of getting dropped and having to ride the race alone.</FONT></P>

<P><B><I><FONT face=Arial>Pat Sagers</FONT></I></B><I></I> <BR><FONT

face=Arial> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Systems Engineer</FONT>

<BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Orcom Solutions, Inc</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial

size=2>(541) 389-0120 x1554</FONT><I></I><I> <FONT face=Arial

size=1>voice</FONT></I> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>(541)

389-8267</FONT><I></I><I> <FONT face=Arial size=1>fax</FONT></I> </P><BR><BR>

<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>NOTICE:  This communication may contain

proprietary or other confidential business information of Orcom Solutions,

Inc.  If you are not the intended recipient or believe that you may have

received this communication in error, please reply to the sender indicating

that fact and delete the copy you received.  In addition, you should not

print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. 

Thank you.  </FONT></P><BR><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>





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Pat Sagers

2002-08-07

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Years ago when I lived in Lake Tahoe, there was a Reno bike club that put on

weekly races. Instead of dealing with all the categories and whether you

were a junior, senior, boy or girl, they used time handicaps. The races

started in May and went through to September. They raced once a week on

Thursday nights and rotated between 3 road courses and 1 crit course. The

time handicaps were divided into 3 minute increments starting with 0 -

scratch and progressed up to 18 minutes. The race organizer would use the

prior weeks results to set your handicap group. If you hadn't raced before

I think he conducted a brief interview and then placed you in a group.

Typically the scratch group were all USCF Cat 1/2 riders and then very

strong riders in the 3 minute group and so on. If you won your group, you

would be moved up the next week. The idea was to have everyone finish the

race at the same time.



Personally, I had a great time with these races. I never could get time off

to travel to a race, so these races satisfied my competitive desire. In the

whole scheme of things, they didn't really mean anything. No organization

recognized them, so you couldn't carry your reputation to a race and have it

mean anything, but it got alot of folks racing that otherwise would never

show up to a race.



Another aspect that I liked was that the time groups formed teams. For

instance, if you were in the 6 minute group, your group would be motivated

to work together to catch the 9 minute group and to keep from getting caught

by the 3 minute or scratch groups. It was great fun and I have missed

participating in them since.



I don't think the category designations in Masters men's and women's races

will be able to please everyone until the numbers are there. I think the

answer is in providing more events like the one I described. Imagine

getting a 15 minute head start with 10 other riders whose fitness levels are

very close to yours. That would really take the fear out of getting dropped

and having to ride the race alone.



Pat Sagers



Systems Engineer

Orcom Solutions, Inc

(541) 389-0120 x1554 voice

(541) 389-8267 fax







NOTICE: This communication may contain proprietary or other confidential

business information of Orcom Solutions, Inc. If you are not the intended

recipient or believe that you may have received this communication in error,

please reply to the sender indicating that fact and delete the copy you

received. In addition, you should not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate,

or otherwise use the information. Thank you.











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<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Years ago when I lived in Lake Tahoe, there was a Reno bike club that put on weekly races.  Instead of dealing with all the categories and whether you were a junior, senior, boy or girl, they used time handicaps.  The races started in May and went through to September.  They raced once a week on Thursday nights and rotated between 3 road courses and 1 crit course.  The time handicaps were divided into 3 minute increments starting with 0 - scratch and progressed up to 18 minutes.  The race organizer would use the prior weeks results to set your handicap group.  If you hadn't raced before I think he conducted a brief interview and then placed you in a group.  Typically the scratch group were all USCF Cat 1/2 riders and then very strong riders in the 3 minute group and so on.  If you won your group, you would be moved up the next week.  The idea was to have everyone finish the race at the same time.  </FONT></P>



<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Personally, I had a great time with these races.  I never could get time off to travel to a race, so these races satisfied my competitive desire.  In the whole scheme of things, they didn't really mean anything.  No organization recognized them, so you couldn't carry your reputation to a race and have it mean anything, but it got alot of folks racing that otherwise would never show up to a race.  </FONT></P>



<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Another aspect that I liked was that the time groups formed teams.  For instance, if you were in the 6 minute group, your group would be motivated to work together to catch the 9 minute group and to keep from getting caught by the 3 minute or scratch groups.  It was great fun and I have missed participating in them since.  </FONT></P>



<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">I don't think the category designations in Masters men's and women's races will be able to please everyone until the numbers are there.  I think the answer is in providing more events like the one I described.  Imagine getting a 15 minute head start with 10 other riders whose fitness levels are very close to yours.  That would really take the fear out of getting dropped and having to ride the race alone.</FONT></P>



<P><B><I><FONT FACE="Arial">Pat Sagers</FONT></I></B><I></I>

<BR><FONT FACE="Arial">?</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Systems Engineer</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Orcom Solutions, Inc</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">(541) 389-0120 x1554</FONT><I></I><I> <FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">voice</FONT></I>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">(541) 389-8267</FONT><I></I><I> <FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">fax</FONT></I>

</P>

<BR>

<BR>



<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">NOTICE:  This communication may contain proprietary or other confidential business information of Orcom Solutions, Inc.  If you are not the intended recipient or believe that you may have received this communication in error, please reply to the sender indicating that fact and delete the copy you received.  In addition, you should not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information.  Thank you.  </FONT></P>

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