Master's Categories -never die, just get older and crankier

keith prior

2002-08-08

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And with that we conclude any further discussion on this topic! :)

Good point!

-K



-----Original Message-----

From: JM Newman [mailto:newm-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 9:57 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories -never die, just get older and crankier







Isn't PIR a weekly series put on for training and for those unable to travel on the weekends?



Ooops, my mistake, it's the quintessencial bike race series that a season should be planned around.







 From: Tom Durkin

Reply-To: tjdu-@teleport.com

To: wind-@hevanet.com, OBRA Remailer

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again

Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 19:18:00 -0700



Master's Categories - againGreat idea, find a place and do it.

----- Original Message -----

From: Peter Drake

To: pat_s-@orcom.com ; ob-@topica.com

Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:07 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again





Pat,



Sounds great, when are you going to be putting these on? Wednesdays would be good for me. This issue, of course, falls under the infamous unwritten OBRA rule (21b or 27b?) "If you don't like it, put on your own race."



Cheers,



Peter Drake

----- Original Message -----

From: Pat Sagers

To: 'ob-@topica.com'

Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 5:00 PM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again





Years ago when I lived in Lake Tahoe, there was a Reno bike club that put on weekly races. Instead of dealing with all the categories and whether you were a junior, senior, boy or girl, they used time handicaps. The races started in May and went through to September. They raced once a week on Thursday nights and rotated between 3 road courses and 1 crit course. The time handicaps were divided into 3 minute increments starting with 0 - scratch and progressed up to 18 minutes. The race organizer would use the prior weeks results to set your handicap group. If you hadn't raced before I think he conducted a brief interview and then placed you in a group. Typically the scratch group were all USCF Cat 1/2 riders and then very strong riders in the 3 minute group and so on. If you won your group, you would be moved up the next week. The idea was to have everyone finish the race at the same time.



Personally, I had a great time with these races. I never could get time off to travel to a race, so these races satisfied my competitive desire. In the whole scheme of things, they didn't really mean anything. No organization recognized them, so you couldn't carry your reputation to a race and have it mean anything, but it got alot of folks racing that otherwise would never show up to a race.



Another aspect that I liked was that the time groups formed teams. For instance, if you were in the 6 minute group, your group would be motivated to work together to catch the 9 minute group and to keep from getting caught by the 3 minute or scratch groups. It was great fun and I have missed participating in them since.



I don't think the category designations in Masters men's and women's races will be able to please everyone until the numbers are there. I think the answer is in providing more events like the one I described. Imagine getting a 15 minute head start with 10 other riders whose fitness levels are very close to yours. That would really take the fear out of getting dropped and having to ride the race alone.



Pat Sagers



Systems Engineer

Orcom Solutions, Inc

(541) 389-0120 x1554 voice

(541) 389-8267 fax









NOTICE: This communication may contain proprietary or other confidential business information of Orcom Solutions, Inc. If you are not the intended recipient or believe that you may have received this communication in error, please reply to the sender indicating that fact and delete the copy you received. In addition, you should not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Thank you.







To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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_____



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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=383140117-08082002>And

with that we conclude any further discussion on this topic!

:)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=383140117-08082002>Good

point!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN

class=383140117-08082002>-K</SPAN></FONT></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma

size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> JM Newman

[mailto:newm-@hotmail.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 08, 2002 9:57

AM<BR><B>To:</B> ob-@topica.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [OBRA Chat] Master's

Categories -never die, just get older and crankier<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>

<DIV>

<DIV>

<P>Isn't PIR a weekly series put on for training and for those unable to

travel on the weekends? </P>

<P>Ooops, my mistake, it's the quintessencial bike race series that

a season should be planned around.  <BR><BR></P></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>>From: Tom Durkin <TJDU-@TELEPORT.COM>

<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: tjdu-@teleport.com

<DIV></DIV>>To: wind-@hevanet.com, OBRA Remailer <OB-@TOPICA.COM>

<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again

<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 19:18:00 -0700

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>Master's Categories - againGreat idea, find a place and do it.

<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----

<DIV></DIV>> From: Peter Drake

<DIV></DIV>> To: pat_s-@orcom.com ; ob-@topica.com

<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:07 PM

<DIV></DIV>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Pat,

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Sounds great, when are you going to be putting these on?

Wednesdays would be good for me. This issue, of course, falls under the

infamous unwritten OBRA rule (21b or 27b?) "If you don't like it, put on your

own race."

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Cheers,

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Peter Drake

<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----

<DIV></DIV>> From: Pat Sagers

<DIV></DIV>> To: 'ob-@topica.com'

<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 5:00 PM

<DIV></DIV>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Years ago when I lived in Lake Tahoe, there was a Reno bike

club that put on weekly races. Instead of dealing with all the categories and

whether you were a junior, senior, boy or girl, they used time handicaps. The

races started in May and went through to September. They raced once a week on

Thursday nights and rotated between 3 road courses and 1 crit course. The time

handicaps were divided into 3 minute increments starting with 0 - scratch and

progressed up to 18 minutes. The race organizer would use the prior weeks

results to set your handicap group. If you hadn't raced before I think he

conducted a brief interview and then placed you in a group. Typically the

scratch group were all USCF Cat 1/2 riders and then very strong riders in the

3 minute group and so on. If you won your group, you would be moved up the

next week. The idea was to have everyone finish the race at the same time.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Personally, I had a great time with these races. I never could

get time off to travel to a race, so these races satisfied my competitive

desire. In the whole scheme of things, they didn't really mean anything. No

organization recognized them, so you couldn't carry your reputation to a race

and have it mean anything, but it got alot of folks racing that otherwise

would never show up to a race.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Another aspect that I liked was that the time groups formed

teams. For instance, if you were in the 6 minute group, your group would be

motivated to work together to catch the 9 minute group and to keep from

getting caught by the 3 minute or scratch groups. It was great fun and I have

missed participating in them since.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> I don't think the category designations in Masters men's and

women's races will be able to please everyone until the numbers are there. I

think the answer is in providing more events like the one I described. Imagine

getting a 15 minute head start with 10 other riders whose fitness levels are

very close to yours. That would really take the fear out of getting dropped

and having to ride the race alone.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Pat Sagers

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Systems Engineer

<DIV></DIV>> Orcom Solutions, Inc

<DIV></DIV>> (541) 389-0120 x1554 voice

<DIV></DIV>> (541) 389-8267 fax

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> NOTICE: This communication may contain proprietary or other

confidential business information of Orcom Solutions, Inc. If you are not the

intended recipient or believe that you may have received this communication in

error, please reply to the sender indicating that fact and delete the copy you

received. In addition, you should not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or

otherwise use the information. Thank you.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

<DIV></DIV>>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

<DIV></DIV>>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

<DIV></DIV>>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=all>

<HR>

Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <A

href="http://g.msn.com/1HM1ENUS/c144??PS=47575">Click Here</A><BR><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>





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JM Newman

2002-08-08

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>

<P>Isn't PIR a weekly series put on for training and for those unable to travel on the weekends? </P>

<P>Ooops, my mistake, it's the quintessencial bike race series that a season should be planned around.  <BR><BR></P></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>>From: Tom Durkin <TJDU-@TELEPORT.COM>

<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: tjdu-@teleport.com

<DIV></DIV>>To: wind-@hevanet.com, OBRA Remailer <OB-@TOPICA.COM>

<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again

<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 19:18:00 -0700

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>Master's Categories - againGreat idea, find a place and do it.

<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----

<DIV></DIV>> From: Peter Drake

<DIV></DIV>> To: pat_s-@orcom.com ; ob-@topica.com

<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:07 PM

<DIV></DIV>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Pat,

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Sounds great, when are you going to be putting these on? Wednesdays would be good for me. This issue, of course, falls under the infamous unwritten OBRA rule (21b or 27b?) "If you don't like it, put on your own race."

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Cheers,

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Peter Drake

<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----

<DIV></DIV>> From: Pat Sagers

<DIV></DIV>> To: 'ob-@topica.com'

<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 5:00 PM

<DIV></DIV>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Years ago when I lived in Lake Tahoe, there was a Reno bike club that put on weekly races. Instead of dealing with all the categories and whether you were a junior, senior, boy or girl, they used time handicaps. The races started in May and went through to September. They raced once a week on Thursday nights and rotated between 3 road courses and 1 crit course. The time handicaps were divided into 3 minute increments starting with 0 - scratch and progressed up to 18 minutes. The race organizer would use the prior weeks results to set your handicap group. If you hadn't raced before I think he conducted a brief interview and then placed you in a group. Typically the scratch group were all USCF Cat 1/2 riders and then very strong riders in the 3 minute group and so on. If you won your group, you would be moved up the next week. The idea was to have everyone finish the race at the same time.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Personally, I had a great time with these races. I never could get time off to travel to a race, so these races satisfied my competitive desire. In the whole scheme of things, they didn't really mean anything. No organization recognized them, so you couldn't carry your reputation to a race and have it mean anything, but it got alot of folks racing that otherwise would never show up to a race.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Another aspect that I liked was that the time groups formed teams. For instance, if you were in the 6 minute group, your group would be motivated to work together to catch the 9 minute group and to keep from getting caught by the 3 minute or scratch groups. It was great fun and I have missed participating in them since.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> I don't think the category designations in Masters men's and women's races will be able to please everyone until the numbers are there. I think the answer is in providing more events like the one I described. Imagine getting a 15 minute head start with 10 other riders whose fitness levels are very close to yours. That would really take the fear out of getting dropped and having to ride the race alone.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Pat Sagers

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Systems Engineer

<DIV></DIV>> Orcom Solutions, Inc

<DIV></DIV>> (541) 389-0120 x1554 voice

<DIV></DIV>> (541) 389-8267 fax

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> NOTICE: This communication may contain proprietary or other confidential business information of Orcom Solutions, Inc. If you are not the intended recipient or believe that you may have received this communication in error, please reply to the sender indicating that fact and delete the copy you received. In addition, you should not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Thank you.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

<DIV></DIV>>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

<DIV></DIV>>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

<DIV></DIV>>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://g.msn.com/1HM1ENUS/c144??PS=47575'>Click Here</a><br>





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