keith prior
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And with that we conclude any further discussion on this topic! :)
Good point!
-K
-----Original Message-----
From: JM Newman [mailto:newm-@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 9:57 AM
To: ob-@topica.com
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories -never die, just get older and crankier
Isn't PIR a weekly series put on for training and for those unable to travel on the weekends?
Ooops, my mistake, it's the quintessencial bike race series that a season should be planned around.
From: Tom Durkin
Reply-To: tjdu-@teleport.com
To: wind-@hevanet.com, OBRA Remailer
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 19:18:00 -0700
Master's Categories - againGreat idea, find a place and do it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Drake
To: pat_s-@orcom.com ; ob-@topica.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again
Pat,
Sounds great, when are you going to be putting these on? Wednesdays would be good for me. This issue, of course, falls under the infamous unwritten OBRA rule (21b or 27b?) "If you don't like it, put on your own race."
Cheers,
Peter Drake
----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Sagers
To: 'ob-@topica.com'
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 5:00 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again
Years ago when I lived in Lake Tahoe, there was a Reno bike club that put on weekly races. Instead of dealing with all the categories and whether you were a junior, senior, boy or girl, they used time handicaps. The races started in May and went through to September. They raced once a week on Thursday nights and rotated between 3 road courses and 1 crit course. The time handicaps were divided into 3 minute increments starting with 0 - scratch and progressed up to 18 minutes. The race organizer would use the prior weeks results to set your handicap group. If you hadn't raced before I think he conducted a brief interview and then placed you in a group. Typically the scratch group were all USCF Cat 1/2 riders and then very strong riders in the 3 minute group and so on. If you won your group, you would be moved up the next week. The idea was to have everyone finish the race at the same time.
Personally, I had a great time with these races. I never could get time off to travel to a race, so these races satisfied my competitive desire. In the whole scheme of things, they didn't really mean anything. No organization recognized them, so you couldn't carry your reputation to a race and have it mean anything, but it got alot of folks racing that otherwise would never show up to a race.
Another aspect that I liked was that the time groups formed teams. For instance, if you were in the 6 minute group, your group would be motivated to work together to catch the 9 minute group and to keep from getting caught by the 3 minute or scratch groups. It was great fun and I have missed participating in them since.
I don't think the category designations in Masters men's and women's races will be able to please everyone until the numbers are there. I think the answer is in providing more events like the one I described. Imagine getting a 15 minute head start with 10 other riders whose fitness levels are very close to yours. That would really take the fear out of getting dropped and having to ride the race alone.
Pat Sagers
Systems Engineer
Orcom Solutions, Inc
(541) 389-0120 x1554 voice
(541) 389-8267 fax
NOTICE: This communication may contain proprietary or other confidential business information of Orcom Solutions, Inc. If you are not the intended recipient or believe that you may have received this communication in error, please reply to the sender indicating that fact and delete the copy you received. In addition, you should not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Thank you.
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=383140117-08082002>And
with that we conclude any further discussion on this topic!
:)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=383140117-08082002>Good
point!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=383140117-08082002>-K</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> JM Newman
[mailto:newm-@hotmail.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 08, 2002 9:57
AM<BR><B>To:</B> ob-@topica.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [OBRA Chat] Master's
Categories -never die, just get older and crankier<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P>Isn't PIR a weekly series put on for training and for those unable to
travel on the weekends? </P>
<P>Ooops, my mistake, it's the quintessencial bike race series that
a season should be planned around. <BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: Tom Durkin <TJDU-@TELEPORT.COM>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: tjdu-@teleport.com
<DIV></DIV>>To: wind-@hevanet.com, OBRA Remailer <OB-@TOPICA.COM>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 19:18:00 -0700
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Master's Categories - againGreat idea, find a place and do it.
<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>> From: Peter Drake
<DIV></DIV>> To: pat_s-@orcom.com ; ob-@topica.com
<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:07 PM
<DIV></DIV>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Pat,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Sounds great, when are you going to be putting these on?
Wednesdays would be good for me. This issue, of course, falls under the
infamous unwritten OBRA rule (21b or 27b?) "If you don't like it, put on your
own race."
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Cheers,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Peter Drake
<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>> From: Pat Sagers
<DIV></DIV>> To: 'ob-@topica.com'
<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 5:00 PM
<DIV></DIV>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Master's Categories - again
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Years ago when I lived in Lake Tahoe, there was a Reno bike
club that put on weekly races. Instead of dealing with all the categories and
whether you were a junior, senior, boy or girl, they used time handicaps. The
races started in May and went through to September. They raced once a week on
Thursday nights and rotated between 3 road courses and 1 crit course. The time
handicaps were divided into 3 minute increments starting with 0 - scratch and
progressed up to 18 minutes. The race organizer would use the prior weeks
results to set your handicap group. If you hadn't raced before I think he
conducted a brief interview and then placed you in a group. Typically the
scratch group were all USCF Cat 1/2 riders and then very strong riders in the
3 minute group and so on. If you won your group, you would be moved up the
next week. The idea was to have everyone finish the race at the same time.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Personally, I had a great time with these races. I never could
get time off to travel to a race, so these races satisfied my competitive
desire. In the whole scheme of things, they didn't really mean anything. No
organization recognized them, so you couldn't carry your reputation to a race
and have it mean anything, but it got alot of folks racing that otherwise
would never show up to a race.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Another aspect that I liked was that the time groups formed
teams. For instance, if you were in the 6 minute group, your group would be
motivated to work together to catch the 9 minute group and to keep from
getting caught by the 3 minute or scratch groups. It was great fun and I have
missed participating in them since.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> I don't think the category designations in Masters men's and
women's races will be able to please everyone until the numbers are there. I
think the answer is in providing more events like the one I described. Imagine
getting a 15 minute head start with 10 other riders whose fitness levels are
very close to yours. That would really take the fear out of getting dropped
and having to ride the race alone.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Pat Sagers
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Systems Engineer
<DIV></DIV>> Orcom Solutions, Inc
<DIV></DIV>> (541) 389-0120 x1554 voice
<DIV></DIV>> (541) 389-8267 fax
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> NOTICE: This communication may contain proprietary or other
confidential business information of Orcom Solutions, Inc. If you are not the
intended recipient or believe that you may have received this communication in
error, please reply to the sender indicating that fact and delete the copy you
received. In addition, you should not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or
otherwise use the information. Thank you.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com
<DIV></DIV>>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com
<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com
<DIV></DIV>>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com
<DIV></DIV>>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=all>
<HR>
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <A
href="http://g.msn.com/1HM1ENUS/c144??PS=47575">Click Here</A><BR><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
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