A rolling stop at a stop sign

Russ Rainforth

2011-02-10

Excellent video -thanks for sharing.
I guess the housebill just made way too much sense to become law.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 9, 2011, at 2:27 PM, Benjamin Barber wrote:

> I saw a very nice video about this on youtube
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84eB0N-LG6M
>
> At the speed that I was going, my stopping distance had to have been half a foot, had i seen a car coming I would have been able to stop.
>
> And its got to be so annoying to unclip, stop, wait 3 second, clip in again, get moving again every block.
>
> the law should seriously be changed
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


mohair

2011-02-10

This topic comes up with great regularity. A "rolling stop" is not stopping. It is running a traffic sign/signal. Period. Remember this folks: "Same road, same rules, same rights."

It's dangerous enough out there already. Don't add fuel to the fire.


Sean Rees

2011-02-10

there were also a group of folks that took their GPS data in with them to court and noted that they were "stopped" based on satellite tracking. this was for someone who didn't put their foot down but wanted to show they were indeed stopped. We all now need helmet cams and Garmins on every ride.


Gregg Magnus

2011-02-10

I don't know the ORS verbatim, but I have never read the words "complete cessation of motion" anywhere in regards to failing to obey a traffic control device....if you can find it written in ORS please let me know I'd like to be totally up to speed on this if I missed it somewhere. You must stop, it clearly says that. Are there police officers that have cited someone for not putting their foot down even though they came to a complete stop? Yes, were they right? No, if the person stopped completely. (Going back to when we had all the problems in North Plains I would never put a foot down but would conduct a track stand for a second or two as I was curious if I would get pulled over for not putting a foot down, never happened for me)...Are their cyclists that have blown stop signs been pulled over and given warnings before? Yes, the world isn't perfect, there are police officers that dislike cyclists just like the public at large, its not right but its reality..

Below is the link to drivers response to a traffic control device ORS 811.260 you can also link off of there to what a violation of a traffic control device is.

https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/811.260

Gregg

> From: Brady.Brady@jmp.com
> To: donkeyphysics@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 23:53:25 +0000
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] A rolling stop at a stop sign
>
> In the Oregon code, the language reads (unless they've changed the language from when I researched this a couple of years back) "...complete cessation of motion."
>
> So the ticketing officer can pretty much do what he wants, unless you turn off your vehicle (or dismount your bike and lay it on the ground) and proceed to die. Because it doesn't mention whether the "complete cessation of motion" applies to the vehicle, the operator, or both. Nor does it limit the motion which is to cease, to forward motion.
>
> A well-written statute, to be sure.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Alex Hansen
> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:35 AM
> To: OBRA list list
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] A rolling stop at a stop sign
>
> Actually, I had a friend get a ticket about 2 years ago for doing
> exactly that. He came to a full and complete stop, but didn't put his
> foot down. Ticket. No amount of polite discussion could get him out
> of it. In Oregon, if you want to be on the "clear" side of the law,
> you've got to not just stop, but also put your foot down. Anything
> less than that is an incomplete stop, and they can ticket you if
> they're in a bad mood. Some officers may be more reasonable and
> lenient, but the only way to GUARANTEE you don't get a ticket, is to
> put your foot down.
>
> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Ben Fischler wrote:
> > FWIW, I was told by a cop in Portland that your wheels had to come to a full stop. He said, "If you do a track stand for a sec, you're good".
> >
> > I go by that in general.
> >
> > AnimationMentor.com
> > [ ben.fischler@gmail.com ]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Feb 8, 2011, at 10:02 PM, Stewart Campbell wrote:
> >
> >> I've alwaysed wondered about this? What is the most recent, official law about stop signs. When I moved here 12 years ago I thought I heard that a cyclist has to treat a stop sign as a yeild sign if no one else is there, and if someone else is at the intersection then you treat it as a stop sign.
> >> Then I thought that I heard that they changed the law around 2002 (?) that you have to stop. But then all the commuters downtown protested by forming a long line and coming to a full 3 sec stop during evening rush hour. This backed up all traffic so bad that they changed the law back to just yeilding if no one else is at the intersection.
> >> But in recent years I only hear that stop means stop.
> >> Honestly, I'm about half and half. If no cars are around I'll slow and yeild. But when I'm around cars I try to set a good example for cyclist and follow all the laws. Like if I'm pulling up to stop light behing 3 cars and there is no desginated bike lane, I'll stay behind the three cars instead of riding in the gutter right up to the light.
> >> What about stop lights that are activated by metal and a carbon fiber bike does not have enough metal to chage the light? Do you wait there forever?
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> I'm running a Triathlon... and I could REALLY use your help!
>
> http://is.gd/AlexTri
>
> I'm Tri'ing for a cure with Team In Training in the Pacific Crest Half
> Iron Man Triathlon. Help me raise at least $3800 by April 15 so I can
> stay in the race! For the record, LLS is a registered 501(c)(3)
> charity, and at least 75% of all they take in goes directly to support
> patients and researchers each in their fight against cancers.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
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>
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eric aldinger

2011-02-10

The legislation the BTA was working on to allow rolling stops was killed.
The congressman sponsoring it was not responsive to suggestions to
reintroduce it when I contacted him. He was actually quite curt about the
issue.

In talking with a traffic judge, after getting my ticket for running a stop
sign, I was told that the law does not stipulate your foot must touch the
ground as part of stopping. However, a cop may be looking for you to put
your foot down as part of evaluating your desirability for ticketing.
On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 3:53 PM, Brady Brady wrote:

> In the Oregon code, the language reads (unless they've changed the language
> from when I researched this a couple of years back) "...complete cessation
> of motion."
>
> So the ticketing officer can pretty much do what he wants, unless you turn
> off your vehicle (or dismount your bike and lay it on the ground) and
> proceed to die. Because it doesn't mention whether the "complete cessation
> of motion" applies to the vehicle, the operator, or both. Nor does it limit
> the motion which is to cease, to forward motion.
>
> A well-written statute, to be sure.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Alex Hansen
> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:35 AM
> To: OBRA list list
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] A rolling stop at a stop sign
>
> Actually, I had a friend get a ticket about 2 years ago for doing
> exactly that. He came to a full and complete stop, but didn't put his
> foot down. Ticket. No amount of polite discussion could get him out
> of it. In Oregon, if you want to be on the "clear" side of the law,
> you've got to not just stop, but also put your foot down. Anything
> less than that is an incomplete stop, and they can ticket you if
> they're in a bad mood. Some officers may be more reasonable and
> lenient, but the only way to GUARANTEE you don't get a ticket, is to
> put your foot down.
>
> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Ben Fischler
> wrote:
> > FWIW, I was told by a cop in Portland that your wheels had to come to a
> full stop. He said, "If you do a track stand for a sec, you're good".
> >
> > I go by that in general.
> >
> > AnimationMentor.com
> > [ ben.fischler@gmail.com ]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Feb 8, 2011, at 10:02 PM, Stewart Campbell wrote:
> >
> >> I've alwaysed wondered about this? What is the most recent, official
> law about stop signs. When I moved here 12 years ago I thought I heard that
> a cyclist has to treat a stop sign as a yeild sign if no one else is there,
> and if someone else is at the intersection then you treat it as a stop sign.
> >> Then I thought that I heard that they changed the law around 2002 (?)
> that you have to stop. But then all the commuters downtown protested by
> forming a long line and coming to a full 3 sec stop during evening rush
> hour. This backed up all traffic so bad that they changed the law back to
> just yeilding if no one else is at the intersection.
> >> But in recent years I only hear that stop means stop.
> >> Honestly, I'm about half and half. If no cars are around I'll slow and
> yeild. But when I'm around cars I try to set a good example for cyclist and
> follow all the laws. Like if I'm pulling up to stop light behing 3 cars and
> there is no desginated bike lane, I'll stay behind the three cars instead of
> riding in the gutter right up to the light.
> >> What about stop lights that are activated by metal and a carbon fiber
> bike does not have enough metal to chage the light? Do you wait there
> forever?
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> I'm running a Triathlon... and I could REALLY use your help!
>
> http://is.gd/AlexTri
>
> I'm Tri'ing for a cure with Team In Training in the Pacific Crest Half
> Iron Man Triathlon. Help me raise at least $3800 by April 15 so I can
> stay in the race! For the record, LLS is a registered 501(c)(3)
> charity, and at least 75% of all they take in goes directly to support
> patients and researchers each in their fight against cancers.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
Eric Aldinger


Alex Hansen

2011-02-10

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the "complete cessation of motion"
the definition of absolute zero (i.e. when all molecular motion
ceases)? Based on that, I'd think you should be able to fight every
single "failure to stop" on the grounds that this is a feat which the
entire global scientific community has yet to achieve, even in a
laboratory.

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 3:53 PM, Brady Brady wrote:
> In the Oregon code, the language reads (unless they've changed the language from when I researched this a couple of years back) "...complete cessation of motion."
>
> So the ticketing officer can pretty much do what he wants, unless you turn off your vehicle (or dismount your bike and lay it on the ground) and proceed to die. Because it doesn't mention whether the "complete cessation of motion" applies to the vehicle, the operator, or both. Nor does it limit the motion which is to cease, to forward motion.
>
> A well-written statute, to be sure.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Alex Hansen
> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:35 AM
> To: OBRA list list
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] A rolling stop at a stop sign
>
> Actually, I had a friend get a ticket about 2 years ago for doing
> exactly that.  He came to a full and complete stop, but didn't put his
> foot down.  Ticket.  No amount of polite discussion could get him out
> of it.  In Oregon, if you want to be on the "clear" side of the law,
> you've got to not just stop, but also put your foot down.  Anything
> less than that is an incomplete stop, and they can ticket you if
> they're in a bad mood.  Some officers may be more reasonable and
> lenient, but the only way to GUARANTEE you don't get a ticket, is to
> put your foot down.
>
> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Ben Fischler wrote:
>> FWIW, I was told by a cop in Portland that your wheels had to come to a full stop.  He said, "If you do a track stand for a sec, you're good".
>>
>> I go by that in general.
>>
>> AnimationMentor.com
>> [ ben.fischler@gmail.com ]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 8, 2011, at 10:02 PM, Stewart Campbell wrote:
>>
>>> I've alwaysed wondered about this?  What is the most recent, official law about stop signs.  When I moved here 12 years ago I thought I heard that a cyclist has to treat a stop sign as a yeild sign if no one else is there, and if someone else is at the intersection then you treat it as a stop sign.
>>> Then I thought that I heard that they changed the law around 2002 (?) that you have to stop.  But then all the commuters downtown protested by forming a long line and coming to a full 3 sec stop during evening rush hour.  This backed up all traffic so bad that they changed the law back to just yeilding if no one else is at the intersection.
>>> But in recent years I only hear that stop means stop.
>>> Honestly, I'm about half and half.  If no cars are around I'll slow and yeild.  But when I'm around cars I try to set a good example for cyclist and follow all the laws.  Like if I'm pulling up to stop light behing 3 cars and there is no desginated bike lane, I'll stay behind the three cars instead of riding in the gutter right up to the light.
>>> What about stop lights that are activated by metal and a carbon fiber bike does not have enough metal to chage the light?  Do you wait there forever?
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> I'm running a Triathlon... and I could REALLY use your help!
>
> http://is.gd/AlexTri
>
> I'm Tri'ing for a cure with Team In Training in the Pacific Crest Half
> Iron Man Triathlon.  Help me raise at least $3800 by April 15 so I can
> stay in the race! For the record, LLS is a registered 501(c)(3)
> charity, and at least 75% of all they take in goes directly to support
> patients and researchers each in their fight against cancers.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>

--
I'm running a Triathlon... and I could REALLY use your help!

http://is.gd/AlexTri

I'm Tri'ing for a cure with Team In Training in the Pacific Crest Half
Iron Man Triathlon.  Help me raise at least $3800 by April 15 so I can
stay in the race! For the record, LLS is a registered 501(c)(3)
charity, and at least 75% of all they take in goes directly to support
patients and researchers each in their fight against cancers.


Brady Brady

2011-02-09

In the Oregon code, the language reads (unless they've changed the language from when I researched this a couple of years back) "...complete cessation of motion."

So the ticketing officer can pretty much do what he wants, unless you turn off your vehicle (or dismount your bike and lay it on the ground) and proceed to die. Because it doesn't mention whether the "complete cessation of motion" applies to the vehicle, the operator, or both. Nor does it limit the motion which is to cease, to forward motion.

A well-written statute, to be sure.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Alex Hansen
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:35 AM
To: OBRA list list
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] A rolling stop at a stop sign

Actually, I had a friend get a ticket about 2 years ago for doing
exactly that. He came to a full and complete stop, but didn't put his
foot down. Ticket. No amount of polite discussion could get him out
of it. In Oregon, if you want to be on the "clear" side of the law,
you've got to not just stop, but also put your foot down. Anything
less than that is an incomplete stop, and they can ticket you if
they're in a bad mood. Some officers may be more reasonable and
lenient, but the only way to GUARANTEE you don't get a ticket, is to
put your foot down.

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Ben Fischler wrote:
> FWIW, I was told by a cop in Portland that your wheels had to come to a full stop.  He said, "If you do a track stand for a sec, you're good".
>
> I go by that in general.
>
> AnimationMentor.com
> [ ben.fischler@gmail.com ]
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2011, at 10:02 PM, Stewart Campbell wrote:
>
>> I've alwaysed wondered about this?  What is the most recent, official law about stop signs.  When I moved here 12 years ago I thought I heard that a cyclist has to treat a stop sign as a yeild sign if no one else is there, and if someone else is at the intersection then you treat it as a stop sign.
>> Then I thought that I heard that they changed the law around 2002 (?) that you have to stop.  But then all the commuters downtown protested by forming a long line and coming to a full 3 sec stop during evening rush hour.  This backed up all traffic so bad that they changed the law back to just yeilding if no one else is at the intersection.
>> But in recent years I only hear that stop means stop.
>> Honestly, I'm about half and half.  If no cars are around I'll slow and yeild.  But when I'm around cars I try to set a good example for cyclist and follow all the laws.  Like if I'm pulling up to stop light behing 3 cars and there is no desginated bike lane, I'll stay behind the three cars instead of riding in the gutter right up to the light.
>> What about stop lights that are activated by metal and a carbon fiber bike does not have enough metal to chage the light?  Do you wait there forever?
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
I'm running a Triathlon... and I could REALLY use your help!

http://is.gd/AlexTri

I'm Tri'ing for a cure with Team In Training in the Pacific Crest Half
Iron Man Triathlon.  Help me raise at least $3800 by April 15 so I can
stay in the race! For the record, LLS is a registered 501(c)(3)
charity, and at least 75% of all they take in goes directly to support
patients and researchers each in their fight against cancers.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Benjamin Barber

2011-02-09

I saw a very nice video about this on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84eB0N-LG6M

At the speed that I was going, my stopping distance had to have been half a foot, had i seen a car coming I would have been able to stop.

And its got to be so annoying to unclip, stop, wait 3 second, clip in again, get moving again every block.

the law should seriously be changed


Brian List

2011-02-09

Just wondering, has anyone been hassled about putting a foot down but not
coming to a complete stop before proceeding past a Stop sign.

-Brian List


Alex Hansen

2011-02-09

Actually, I had a friend get a ticket about 2 years ago for doing
exactly that. He came to a full and complete stop, but didn't put his
foot down. Ticket. No amount of polite discussion could get him out
of it. In Oregon, if you want to be on the "clear" side of the law,
you've got to not just stop, but also put your foot down. Anything
less than that is an incomplete stop, and they can ticket you if
they're in a bad mood. Some officers may be more reasonable and
lenient, but the only way to GUARANTEE you don't get a ticket, is to
put your foot down.

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Ben Fischler wrote:
> FWIW, I was told by a cop in Portland that your wheels had to come to a full stop.  He said, "If you do a track stand for a sec, you're good".
>
> I go by that in general.
>
> AnimationMentor.com
> [ ben.fischler@gmail.com ]
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2011, at 10:02 PM, Stewart Campbell wrote:
>
>> I've alwaysed wondered about this?  What is the most recent, official law about stop signs.  When I moved here 12 years ago I thought I heard that a cyclist has to treat a stop sign as a yeild sign if no one else is there, and if someone else is at the intersection then you treat it as a stop sign.
>> Then I thought that I heard that they changed the law around 2002 (?) that you have to stop.  But then all the commuters downtown protested by forming a long line and coming to a full 3 sec stop during evening rush hour.  This backed up all traffic so bad that they changed the law back to just yeilding if no one else is at the intersection.
>> But in recent years I only hear that stop means stop.
>> Honestly, I'm about half and half.  If no cars are around I'll slow and yeild.  But when I'm around cars I try to set a good example for cyclist and follow all the laws.  Like if I'm pulling up to stop light behing 3 cars and there is no desginated bike lane, I'll stay behind the three cars instead of riding in the gutter right up to the light.
>> What about stop lights that are activated by metal and a carbon fiber bike does not have enough metal to chage the light?  Do you wait there forever?
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
I'm running a Triathlon... and I could REALLY use your help!

http://is.gd/AlexTri

I'm Tri'ing for a cure with Team In Training in the Pacific Crest Half
Iron Man Triathlon.  Help me raise at least $3800 by April 15 so I can
stay in the race! For the record, LLS is a registered 501(c)(3)
charity, and at least 75% of all they take in goes directly to support
patients and researchers each in their fight against cancers.


Ben Fischler

2011-02-09

FWIW, I was told by a cop in Portland that your wheels had to come to a full stop. He said, "If you do a track stand for a sec, you're good".

I go by that in general.

AnimationMentor.com
[ ben.fischler@gmail.com ]

On Feb 8, 2011, at 10:02 PM, Stewart Campbell wrote:

> I've alwaysed wondered about this? What is the most recent, official law about stop signs. When I moved here 12 years ago I thought I heard that a cyclist has to treat a stop sign as a yeild sign if no one else is there, and if someone else is at the intersection then you treat it as a stop sign.
> Then I thought that I heard that they changed the law around 2002 (?) that you have to stop. But then all the commuters downtown protested by forming a long line and coming to a full 3 sec stop during evening rush hour. This backed up all traffic so bad that they changed the law back to just yeilding if no one else is at the intersection.
> But in recent years I only hear that stop means stop.
> Honestly, I'm about half and half. If no cars are around I'll slow and yeild. But when I'm around cars I try to set a good example for cyclist and follow all the laws. Like if I'm pulling up to stop light behing 3 cars and there is no desginated bike lane, I'll stay behind the three cars instead of riding in the gutter right up to the light.
> What about stop lights that are activated by metal and a carbon fiber bike does not have enough metal to chage the light? Do you wait there forever?
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Gregg Magnus

2011-02-09

Regarding the original post about this, obviously you weren't at a desolate (visualize tumbleweeds rolling by and 360 degree visibility no one within the area for miles) clearly no one around intersection or else you wouldn't have been posting here regarding the ticket you received by the police officer that was apparently within sight of the intersection. You can try and have the violation become a pedestrian violation if you are concerned about your driving record for insurance etc.

That case aside I would say that the majority of you that are reading this post are for the most part law abiding cyclists (even in North Plains j/k :0). Our problem is anyone can get a bike and ride it, without knowledge of traffic laws or for that matter regard for them. I just saw a guy ride out in front of traffic yesterday clearly not caring about the traffic light or the 10+ cars that had to stop to not run him over, someone honked and he took the time to flip them off, just some dude on a k-mart mountain bike, but even though he just rides a bike around for transporation it reflects on anyone that throws a leg over a top tube. Unfortunately for us (cyclists) we get lumped into the if you ride a bike you are the same as anyone else and I just saw some person ride through a traffic light therefore all cyclists ride through traffic lights and I now don't like cyclists. I heard this all the time at safety fairs/community events where someone wants to vent to the police about...well anything but cyclists were a recurring theme. "When are you going to do something about those cyclists!" I would then go into the conversation of what did you see, ok how many cars do you see do the same thing daily? Once they thought about it that way most of the time they realized most cyclists aren't the rogue law breakers they thought they were. So really on a bicycle we stand out more, we aren't an anonymous body hidden inside a 4,000 pound chunk of steel, we stand out and its human nature to notice something different, a car blowing a light is just another car running a light...

Do I have a solution, not really but please do your part and abide by the laws don't give the general public a reason to think we are outlaws and a menace on the roadways.



Ride Safe,

Gregg


Stewart Campbell

2011-02-09

Well I answered my own question. It's definately the law here, but not in Idaho. But Idaho might of changed at the begining of 2011.
I did see that the BTA was trying to propose a rolling stop back in 2009, but I did not see what became of that.
So once again my thought...cars hate us, we need to show leadership by example and follow every law. Then hopefully cars will respect us more.
Most of us here do a good job at all of this, but I'm sure we all atleast have one non-obra friend that does not follow all the laws, maybe just cus they don't know. Let's all try to educate atleast one friend to be a more respectful rider so that the cars will respect cyclist as a whole more.


Stewart Campbell

2011-02-09

I've alwaysed wondered about this? What is the most recent, official law about stop signs. When I moved here 12 years ago I thought I heard that a cyclist has to treat a stop sign as a yeild sign if no one else is there, and if someone else is at the intersection then you treat it as a stop sign.
Then I thought that I heard that they changed the law around 2002 (?) that you have to stop. But then all the commuters downtown protested by forming a long line and coming to a full 3 sec stop during evening rush hour. This backed up all traffic so bad that they changed the law back to just yeilding if no one else is at the intersection.
But in recent years I only hear that stop means stop.
Honestly, I'm about half and half. If no cars are around I'll slow and yeild. But when I'm around cars I try to set a good example for cyclist and follow all the laws. Like if I'm pulling up to stop light behing 3 cars and there is no desginated bike lane, I'll stay behind the three cars instead of riding in the gutter right up to the light.
What about stop lights that are activated by metal and a carbon fiber bike does not have enough metal to chage the light? Do you wait there forever?


Kevin

2011-02-09

defending yourself for not stopping at a stop sign? What would be the
grounds? "Gee your honor, didn't think that stop meant to actually STOP"?
Sorry that you got tagged for that, but ......... that is exactly why I always
stop at all stop signs ....well, I always stop if someone can see me ;-) To do
any less perpetuates the scorn of the general public who view all cyclists as
scofflaws.

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________________________________
From: benjamin barber
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 8:21:54 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] A rolling stop at a stop sign

I got a ticket for rolling stop at an otherwise empty intersection, as I was
tailing behind another vehicle that stopped completely, Is there any way that I
can defend myself in traffic court?

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benjamin barber

2011-02-09

I got a ticket for rolling stop at an otherwise empty intersection, as I was tailing behind another vehicle that stopped completely, Is there any way that I can defend myself in traffic court?