Lead Car for Mt. Tabor

splin-@aol.com

2000-06-16

Having accumulated somewhere around 50,000 miles driving motorcycles in

bicycle races (much of that in Colorado at altitudes above 6,000 feet where

there is even less air) I have come across this argument before. There are no

easy solutions -- motors are needed for many jobs in cycling that are not

amenable to cars or other non-internal combustion vehicles. And, there are

cyclists who are extremely sensitive to exhaust fumes due to allergies, etc.,

and the exhaust can be a problem for everyone at times. Jeannie Longo and

Alexi Grewal are both very sensitive to exhaust (among other allergens).



There are a few things I have picked up through experience that might be

helpful to Gregg and the other driver. The first would be that two motors at

the front at Mt. Tabor is overkill unless they are acting as true

marshals/escorts and leapfrogging the race after stopping to control and

intersection like a police escort for funerals or a true rolling enclosure

for a road race. In that case the second bike should be a minimum of 500 -

750 meters out in front. The second bike is the actual marker for the race

and needs to be close enough to discourage people, kids, dogs from trying to

cross after the motor and before the cyclists. The motor driver should be

aware of where the wind is coming from and as much as possible stay to the

downwind side of the available road. Sometimes actually staying closer to the

riders keeps the exhaust closer to the road until the field passes rather

than allowing it to disperse by being farther out in front. Also, keeping the

engine revs high will keep the engine running more efficiently (and cooler)

than lugging. This often means riding in first or second gear for the entire

race, lots more revs than you would usually tolerate when just riding.

Running at higher RPMs also allows the bike to react faster in both braking

(controlling speed through compression) and accelerating to jump away from an

attack or sudden change in pack speed.



If the motors would like to talk to me at some point, I would be happy to

talk about ways that we could have both breathing and motors at the races.



Gregg Magnus

2000-06-16

What do you see in every single pro road race that is run? Motorcycles all

around the fields. At the Mt. Tabor race we had 2 motorcycles leading the

field. Every single road race we do we have a lead car usually, a cars

engine is much bigger than my 600cc Yamaha engine. There is no way that an

electric motorcycle would be able to stay ahead of the 1,2,3 field we were

hitting well over 40mph on the lower parts of the hill.



And for everyones info Mt. Tabor is a total on leash park there is no area

on there that is for off leash use. Those people who let their dogs roam at

large in the park are acting irresponsibly and causing many other law

abiding citizens to not want to use the parks. Right now Portland Parks and

Rec is trying to come up with a solution for this problem if you have any

suggestions or comments please do call them at 823-PLAY

-Gregg Magnus

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Murray <mmur-@teleport.com>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 10:53 AM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Lead Car for Mt. Tabor





 



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The electric bikes max at about 20-25 mph. Uphill even I would beat them.

They also only run fro about 30 minutes on a charge. They really aren't a

pacing option even for a level road.



I thought that Mt. Tabor is generally an off leash area for dog owners.

There is really not much of a mechanism for dog owners to know that

anything is different on bike race days.



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Beth Whittaker [mailto:Bet-@schetkynw.com]

Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 3:45 PM

To: 'ob-@topica.com'

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Lead Car for Mt. Tabor





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Maybe we could find a battery operated bicycle from one of the dealerships

(Tonkin)??? It would require blinking lights and a very audible horn to

alert those individuals with dogs and innocent spectators. Does anyone

know

 how fast these bikes do go?



I want to thank all of the officials last night for watching out for us

because it was thoroughly appreciated. Dogs can be very dangerous to a

cyclist and a bike and the dog and very costly to boot. If only the city

had the man power to enforce the laws that do exist, this would not be

such

 a problem. Or if citizens would only be responsible dog owners.





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Nicholas, John Murray

2000-06-16

there are some small electric cars GM / Honda mfg.---- can either of these

be used or are they too big to be of any use....jmn



-----Original Message-----

From: Mike Murray [mailto:mmur-@teleport.com]

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 10:54 AM

To: Bet-@schetkynw.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Lead Car for Mt. Tabor







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Some Vespas have a 2 cycle engine and they are smaller than a most

motorcycles, i.e. it would be slower and smellier than the regular

motorcycles that were used this week.



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: sco-@alphageek.com [mailto:sco-@alphageek.com]

Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 4:27 PM

To: Bet-@schetkynw.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Lead Car for Mt. Tabor





One word.



Vespa! :)



Surely those things don't crank out too much exhaust, and are speedy enough

to keep ahead of the pack?



--Scott



 -----Original Message-----

From: Beth Whittaker [mailto:Bet-@schetkynw.com]

Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 11:45 PM

To: 'ob-@topica.com'

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Lead Car for Mt. Tabor





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------------------------------------------------------------





Maybe we could find a battery operated bicycle from one of

the dealerships (Tonkin)??? It would require blinking lights

and a very audible horn to alert those individuals with dogs

and innocent spectators. Does anyone know how fast these

bikes do go?



I want to thank all of the officials last night for watching

out for us because it was thoroughly appreciated. Dogs can

be very dangerous to a cyclist and a bike and the dog and

very costly to boot. If only the city had the man power to

enforce the laws that do exist, this would not be such a

problem. Or if citizens would only be responsible dog owners.





To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

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Schreck, George

2000-06-16

As of last summer, Mt Tabor was removed from Off-Leash status. As a result,

there is not longer an off leash area there.



                          George C. Schreck

                           Phone: (503) 813-7211

                           Fax: (503) 813-7252





-----Original Message-----

From: david auker [mailto:dav-@hevanet.com]

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 11:15 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Lead Car for Mt. Tabor







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(Mike Murray said:)

 

I thought that Mt. Tabor is generally an off leash area for dog owners.

There is really not much of a mechanism for dog owners to know that

anything is different on bike race days.



In practice, but not in legality. The off leash area, I believe, is on

the east side of the mount, not even adjacent to the course...but if

there's no enforcement, it's the whole park.





 

The electric bikes max at about 20-25 mph. Uphill even I would beat them.



What about a small, clean car (like Candi's?)...offhand I have a feeling

that especially upon acceleration, a motorcycle isn't as clean as a

small car. (?)



The uphill at Tabor is where we breathe the hardest, and it's a

sheltered area of relatively still air, ideal for retaining pollutants.



Bottom line: we rely on available personnel, and Matt has the bases

covered for our safety, which is the major concern. Thanks, Matt!



David





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david auker

2000-06-16

(Mike Murray said:)

 

I thought that Mt. Tabor is generally an off leash area for dog owners.

There is really not much of a mechanism for dog owners to know that

anything is different on bike race days.



In practice, but not in legality. The off leash area, I believe, is on

the east side of the mount, not even adjacent to the course...but if

there's no enforcement, it's the whole park.





 

The electric bikes max at about 20-25 mph. Uphill even I would beat them.



What about a small, clean car (like Candi's?)...offhand I have a feeling

that especially upon acceleration, a motorcycle isn't as clean as a

small car. (?)



The uphill at Tabor is where we breathe the hardest, and it's a

sheltered area of relatively still air, ideal for retaining pollutants.



Bottom line: we rely on available personnel, and Matt has the bases

covered for our safety, which is the major concern. Thanks, Matt!



David



Mike Murray

2000-06-16

Some Vespas have a 2 cycle engine and they are smaller than a most

motorcycles, i.e. it would be slower and smellier than the regular

motorcycles that were used this week.



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: sco-@alphageek.com [mailto:sco-@alphageek.com]

Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 4:27 PM

To: Bet-@schetkynw.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Lead Car for Mt. Tabor





One word.



Vespa! :)



Surely those things don't crank out too much exhaust, and are speedy enough

to keep ahead of the pack?



--Scott



 -----Original Message-----

From: Beth Whittaker [mailto:Bet-@schetkynw.com]

Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 11:45 PM

To: 'ob-@topica.com'

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Lead Car for Mt. Tabor





--- Sponsor's Message --------------------------------------

What kind of shoes do you want? At Zappos.com, the Web's Most

Popular Shoe Store, you can choose from the best selection of

name brand shoes anywhere. FREE shipping and no sales tax on

most orders!

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------------------------------------------------------------





Maybe we could find a battery operated bicycle from one of

the dealerships (Tonkin)??? It would require blinking lights

and a very audible horn to alert those individuals with dogs

and innocent spectators. Does anyone know how fast these

bikes do go?



I want to thank all of the officials last night for watching

out for us because it was thoroughly appreciated. Dogs can

be very dangerous to a cyclist and a bike and the dog and

very costly to boot. If only the city had the man power to

enforce the laws that do exist, this would not be such a

problem. Or if citizens would only be responsible dog owners.





To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

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Mike Murray

2000-06-16

The electric bikes max at about 20-25 mph. Uphill even I would beat them.

They also only run fro about 30 minutes on a charge. They really aren't a

pacing option even for a level road.



I thought that Mt. Tabor is generally an off leash area for dog owners.

There is really not much of a mechanism for dog owners to know that

anything is different on bike race days.



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Beth Whittaker [mailto:Bet-@schetkynw.com]

Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 3:45 PM

To: 'ob-@topica.com'

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Lead Car for Mt. Tabor





--- Sponsor's Message --------------------------------------

What kind of shoes do you want? At Zappos.com, the Web's Most

Popular Shoe Store, you can choose from the best selection of

name brand shoes anywhere. FREE shipping and no sales tax on

most orders!

http://click.topica.com/aaaanRaVxiDpaVzo9Ia/ZapposShoeSpecial

------------------------------------------------------------





Maybe we could find a battery operated bicycle from one of the dealerships

(Tonkin)??? It would require blinking lights and a very audible horn to

alert those individuals with dogs and innocent spectators. Does anyone know

how fast these bikes do go?



I want to thank all of the officials last night for watching out for us

because it was thoroughly appreciated. Dogs can be very dangerous to a

cyclist and a bike and the dog and very costly to boot. If only the city

had the man power to enforce the laws that do exist, this would not be such

a problem. Or if citizens would only be responsible dog owners.





To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

___________________________________________________________

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Swartzendruber, Steve

2000-06-15

As undeniably cool as a Vespa is, the sad reality is the 2 stroke engine on

the Vespa, in the course of a Mt. Tabor race, will put out more pollution as

a 1992 Chevy driving to Bend and back twice! Scrap the scooter idea - look

for 4 stroke motorcycles (similar to a car's engine; cleaner than a 2

stroke) or a speedy electric motorcycle.

Steve Swartzendruber

Office Phone: 503 671 4781

"When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the

human race." - H.G. Wells



-----Original Message-----

From: sco-@alphageek.com [mailto:sco-@alphageek.com]

Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 4:27 PM

To: Bet-@schetkynw.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Lead Car for Mt. Tabor



One word.



Vespa! :)



Surely those things don't crank out too much exhaust, and are speedy enough

to keep ahead of the pack?



--Scott



 -----Original Message-----

From: Beth Whittaker [mailto:Bet-@schetkynw.com]

Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 11:45 PM

To: 'ob-@topica.com'

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Lead Car for Mt. Tabor





--- Sponsor's Message --------------------------------------

What kind of shoes do you want? At Zappos.com, the Web's Most

Popular Shoe Store, you can choose from the best selection of

name brand shoes anywhere. FREE shipping and no sales tax on

most orders!

http://click.topica.com/aaaanRaVxiDpaVEbrma/ZapposShoeSpecial

------------------------------------------------------------





Maybe we could find a battery operated bicycle from one of

the dealerships (Tonkin)??? It would require blinking lights

and a very audible horn to alert those individuals with dogs

and innocent spectators. Does anyone know how fast these

bikes do go?



I want to thank all of the officials last night for watching

out for us because it was thoroughly appreciated. Dogs can

be very dangerous to a cyclist and a bike and the dog and

very costly to boot. If only the city had the man power to

enforce the laws that do exist, this would not be such a

problem. Or if citizens would only be responsible dog owners.





To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

___________________________________________________________

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sco-@alphageek.com

2000-06-15

One word.



Vespa! :)



Surely those things don't crank out too much exhaust, and are speedy enough

to keep ahead of the pack?



--Scott



 -----Original Message-----

From: Beth Whittaker [mailto:Bet-@schetkynw.com]

Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 11:45 PM

To: 'ob-@topica.com'

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Lead Car for Mt. Tabor





--- Sponsor's Message --------------------------------------

What kind of shoes do you want? At Zappos.com, the Web's Most

Popular Shoe Store, you can choose from the best selection of

name brand shoes anywhere. FREE shipping and no sales tax on

most orders!

http://click.topica.com/aaaanRaVxiDpaVEbrma/ZapposShoeSpecial

------------------------------------------------------------





Maybe we could find a battery operated bicycle from one of

the dealerships (Tonkin)??? It would require blinking lights

and a very audible horn to alert those individuals with dogs

and innocent spectators. Does anyone know how fast these

bikes do go?



I want to thank all of the officials last night for watching

out for us because it was thoroughly appreciated. Dogs can

be very dangerous to a cyclist and a bike and the dog and

very costly to boot. If only the city had the man power to

enforce the laws that do exist, this would not be such a

problem. Or if citizens would only be responsible dog owners.





To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

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Beth Whittaker

2000-06-15

Maybe we could find a battery operated bicycle from one of the =

dealerships (Tonkin)??? It would require blinking lights and a very =

audible horn to alert those individuals with dogs and innocent =

spectators. Does anyone know how fast these bikes do go? =20



I want to thank all of the officials last night for watching out for us =

because it was thoroughly appreciated. Dogs can be very dangerous to a =

cyclist and a bike and the dog and very costly to boot. If only the =

city had the man power to enforce the laws that do exist, this would not =

be such a problem. Or if citizens would only be responsible dog owners.