Geri Bossen

I think Mike has a really good point.

Sometimes some people fail to see the other guy's viewpoint.

I run into situations when I am doing things with a number of kids in tow. I had 6 well behaved but talkative kids with me at a smaller bike shop one time. The owner voiced concern that one of the kids might get hurt. He was not comfortable with that many curious kids in the small space.

I had several of the kids wait out in the van while just the kids with bike repairs discussed their needs. This was better for everyone. From that point forward I only brought one or two kids in with me, everyone was much happier. I still received the great service from the shop that I had been experiencing for years.

It was not the shops fault that I had brought more kids in than they were comfortable with. It was my responsibility to tailor my actions to continue to create goodwill for junior cyclists. As a result, when I have needed emergency last minute repairs an hour before closing, for tomorrow mornings race, the shop was ready and willing to drop what they were doing and fix a kid's bike for me while I waited.

It sounds like maybe the cyclists need to look at how their actions were adversely impacting the coffee shop's business and creating bad public relations for all cyclists. It also sounds like the coffee shop owner tried several less severe ways to deal with the problem but the unwanted behavior continued.

My 2c worth

Geri Bossen

Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 18:10:44 -0700
From: velomann@gmail.com
To: greggm00@hotmail.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] If you ride a bike and drink coffee read this...

Personally, I'm of the "kill them with kindness" school. Like Rick said, loggers with caulked boots and muddy construction workers know where they're OK and where their presence is inappropriate. Rather than boycott the business, I think the PV riders could take a couple steps to put a shine on cyclists' image. Buy and carry cleat covers. stick them in your pocket or get a mini-biner and clip to your saddle rail. Wear them in the coffee shop. And if you walk in the door - to meet someone, pee, whatever, for goodness sake, buy something. the guy's trying to make a living.

If you go out of your way to be respectful and the owner still makes you unwelcome, then find somewhere else to go. But trying step B and C before jumping to Z might be worth a try.

Mike

On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Gregg Magnus wrote:

If you ride a bike and drink coffee you should read this

http://bikeportland.org/2011/04/14/owner-of-hillsboro-coffeehouse-says-cyclists-have-worn-out-welcome-51445

They have forever lost my business...what a load of crap.

Gregg

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http://baiku-velomann.blogspot.com/

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Michael Mann

Personally, I'm of the "kill them with kindness" school. Like Rick said,
loggers with caulked boots and muddy construction workers know where they're
OK and where their presence is inappropriate. Rather than boycott the
business, I think the PV riders could take a couple steps to put a shine on
cyclists' image. Buy and carry cleat covers. stick them in your pocket or
get a mini-biner and clip to your saddle rail. Wear them in the coffee shop.
And if you walk in the door - to meet someone, pee, whatever, for goodness
sake, buy something. the guy's trying to make a living.

If you go out of your way to be respectful and the owner still makes you
unwelcome, then find somewhere else to go. But trying step B and C before
jumping to Z might be worth a try.

Mike

On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Gregg Magnus wrote:

> If you ride a bike and drink coffee you should read this
>
>
> http://bikeportland.org/2011/04/14/owner-of-hillsboro-coffeehouse-says-cyclists-have-worn-out-welcome-51445
>
>
> They have forever lost my business...what a load of crap.
>
> Gregg
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Michael Mann
http://baiku-velomann.blogspot.com/

Sarah Tisdale

The Saturday Portland Velo rides have been so popular because there are a
ton of cyclists out west of downtown. Portland Velo puts a lot of work into
choosing interesting routes. They are predictably good rides with riders of
all levels. I have been challenged when I go with the fast groups. I have
found interesting new areas/routes. I have recommended these rides to
others countless times. Sadly, Portland Velo have become a victim of their
own success. With the growth of the rides into the 100s, they're just too
big for the current start location.

The owner of Longbottoms might handled the situation better than he did, but
I think his frustration is understandable.

There are plenty of great coffeehouses in Portland, but there aren't many
independent coffeehouses out west of Beaverton. And, as a west-sider, don't
always want to drive/max/ride all the way downtown just so I can start at a
cyclist-friendly coffeehouse if I have to fight through stop-lights,
stop-signs, and traffic before getting back out to nice roads. I live out
west near great roads already!

And honestly, I'm not sure how many small businesses (even cyclist-friendly
coffeehouses downtown) would welcome a crush of 100 cyclists all all the
same time each weekend. There's no way I'd offer to host a ride with 100
cyclists every weekend from my house. I can understand the owner's
hesitance at doing the same at his small business - even if he gets some
extra business from it.

I don't know the owner, but I would bet that it might not even really about
*cyclists* in particular. I'm sure it would be logistically difficult
(parking/staffing/seating/cleanup) for any small business to handle huge
waves customers. Huge waves of high-school students after football games
could also be problematic. A "post-church" rush might be difficult (if the
church is large).

I hope PV can find a new start location that offers parking and bathrooms
that can handle 100+ riders (post-ride coffee/food option is a plus).
Barring that, perhaps we need someone else to step up and organize other
west-side rides so the PV rides aren't quite so huge.

Sarah

On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Maggie Edwards-Rising wrote:

> Seems like just another cyclo-phobe honking his horn and yelling out his
> window at me. Not because of what I've done, but because of what he's read
> and heard about cyclists doing. In his particular case, he runs a business,
> and his regulars have had negative experiences with at least one cyclist.
> It's his right to refuse service to people in tights. It's only
> discrimination if it's gender, race, etc. It's our right to take our
> business elsewhere, particularly when we are not wanted or appreciated.
>
> Personally, I like to feel like a business appreciates me if I'm going to
> spend my hard-earned dollars there. If an owner dislikes me by virtue of my
> preferred hobby, it feels like an invitation to spend my money elsewhere.
> And it seems to me he would be more than happy to lose our business. So why
> do we even want to go there? He's like Seinfeld's soup guy!
>
> Surely there are some high schools out there where we can park for weekend
> rides. Or, churches for weekday rides. And when everyone goes for coffee
> afterward, I hope they choose to go where they are welcome. Portland has
> tons of coffee-shops, all of which probably have their own, unique opinion
> about cycling. At least a couple ought to be somewhat positive, right?!
>
> It's a good reminder that, when we are in cycling gear or on a bike, we
> represent everyone, and we need to be courteous and diplomatic. No matter
> what expletive they are yelling out the window of a car!
>
> M
>
> ------------------------------
> From: greggm00@hotmail.com
>
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 11:58:18 -0700
>
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] If you ride a bike and drink coffee read this...
>
> If you ride a bike and drink coffee you should read this
>
>
> http://bikeportland.org/2011/04/14/owner-of-hillsboro-coffeehouse-says-cyclists-have-worn-out-welcome-51445
>
>
> They have forever lost my business...what a load of crap.
>
> Gregg
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe:
> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Maggie Edwards-Rising

Seems like just another cyclo-phobe honking his horn and yelling out his window at me. Not because of what I've done, but because of what he's read and heard about cyclists doing. In his particular case, he runs a business, and his regulars have had negative experiences with at least one cyclist. It's his right to refuse service to people in tights. It's only discrimination if it's gender, race, etc. It's our right to take our business elsewhere, particularly when we are not wanted or appreciated.

Personally, I like to feel like a business appreciates me if I'm going to spend my hard-earned dollars there. If an owner dislikes me by virtue of my preferred hobby, it feels like an invitation to spend my money elsewhere. And it seems to me he would be more than happy to lose our business. So why do we even want to go there? He's like Seinfeld's soup guy!

Surely there are some high schools out there where we can park for weekend rides. Or, churches for weekday rides. And when everyone goes for coffee afterward, I hope they choose to go where they are welcome. Portland has tons of coffee-shops, all of which probably have their own, unique opinion about cycling. At least a couple ought to be somewhat positive, right?!

It's a good reminder that, when we are in cycling gear or on a bike, we represent everyone, and we need to be courteous and diplomatic. No matter what expletive they are yelling out the window of a car!

M

From: greggm00@hotmail.com
To: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 11:58:18 -0700
Subject: [OBRA Chat] If you ride a bike and drink coffee read this...

If you ride a bike and drink coffee you should read this

http://bikeportland.org/2011/04/14/owner-of-hillsboro-coffeehouse-says-cyclists-have-worn-out-welcome-51445

They have forever lost my business...what a load of crap.

Gregg

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

B

In all honesty our nation rocks! We are not worried about getting blown up
in street cafe's by a neighboring country or where out next bite of food is
going to come from, or even if we are going to come down with malaria and
die. We are worried about how a person with spandex and cleats on his shoes
will take our parking spot or a crying kid might interrupt our skinny with
whip mocha. In all seriousness (not being sarcastic) it is awesome that we
can worry about this and why i love capitalism and the freedom speech!
BM
(this will start some banter)

On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Rick Johnson wrote:

> It was also funny that several of the offending behaviors the owner
> mentioned are common to people out with young children. Just a few short
> years ago we had a local restaurant announce publicly that they would no
> longer be welcoming diners with children nor would they be providing child
> seats anymore. OMG, from some people's reaction you would have thought they
> announced that month's special was kitten flambé. Protests, threats of
> boycotts and letters to the local paper erupted.
>
> Then came the push back from the people who were sick of the dining area
> looking like the top came off a blender. Many came forward to say that it
> was about time they could go out for a meal without being interrupted by
> howling and screaming. Ultimately I think their business actually went up.
>
> So maybe if these problem cyclists stopped acting like children there
> wouldn't be an issue to get worked up about.
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend Oregon
>
>
>
>
> On 4/17/2011 7:38 AM, Ultrafreaks Website wrote:
>
> Certainly the owner’s response is strong. From a practical standpoint it
> excludes serious cyclists from the coffeehouse. The owner probably
> should’ve taken an intermediary step before posting the sign.
>
>
>
> Cyclists are probably not blame-free in this though. I’ve certainly seen
> the kind of behavior he cites. A small percentage of cyclists are
> self-righteous and egocentric, and do not think about or perhaps care about
> how they are perceived. It’s exhibited by cyclists that ride two or three
> abreast on a busy road, chatting and seemingly oblivious to traffic. Could
> be it has nothing to do with cycling at all, and these people exhibit the
> same behavior in everything they do.
>
>
>
> So, agree, time to move on and find another coffeehouse but we cyclists
> should do some introspection too.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Gregg Magnus
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 16, 2011 11:58 AM
> *To:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* [OBRA Chat] If you ride a bike and drink coffee read this...
>
>
>
> If you ride a bike and drink coffee you should read this
>
>
> http://bikeportland.org/2011/04/14/owner-of-hillsboro-coffeehouse-says-cyclists-have-worn-out-welcome-51445
>
>
> They have forever lost my business...what a load of crap.
>
> Gregg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing listobra@list.obra.orghttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Rick Johnson

It was also funny that several of the offending behaviors the owner
mentioned are common to people out with young children. Just a few short
years ago we had a local restaurant announce publicly that they would no
longer be welcoming diners with children nor would they be providing
child seats anymore. OMG, from some people's reaction you would have
thought they announced that month's special was kitten flambé. Protests,
threats of boycotts and letters to the local paper erupted.

Then came the push back from the people who were sick of the dining area
looking like the top came off a blender. Many came forward to say that
it was about time they could go out for a meal without being interrupted
by howling and screaming. Ultimately I think their business actually
went up.

So maybe if these problem cyclists stopped acting like children there
wouldn't be an issue to get worked up about.

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

On 4/17/2011 7:38 AM, Ultrafreaks Website wrote:
>
> Certainly the owner's response is strong. From a practical standpoint
> it excludes serious cyclists from the coffeehouse. The owner probably
> should've taken an intermediary step before posting the sign.
>
> Cyclists are probably not blame-free in this though. I've certainly
> seen the kind of behavior he cites. A small percentage of cyclists
> are self-righteous and egocentric, and do not think about or perhaps
> care about how they are perceived. It's exhibited by cyclists that
> ride two or three abreast on a busy road, chatting and seemingly
> oblivious to traffic. Could be it has nothing to do with cycling at
> all, and these people exhibit the same behavior in everything they do.
>
> So, agree, time to move on and find another coffeehouse but we
> cyclists should do some introspection too.
>
> *From:*obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Gregg Magnus
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 16, 2011 11:58 AM
> *To:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* [OBRA Chat] If you ride a bike and drink coffee read this...
>
> If you ride a bike and drink coffee you should read this
>
> http://bikeportland.org/2011/04/14/owner-of-hillsboro-coffeehouse-says-cyclists-have-worn-out-welcome-51445
>
>
> They have forever lost my business...what a load of crap.
>
> Gregg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Ultrafreaks Website

Certainly the owner's response is strong. From a practical standpoint it
excludes serious cyclists from the coffeehouse. The owner probably
should've taken an intermediary step before posting the sign.

Cyclists are probably not blame-free in this though. I've certainly seen
the kind of behavior he cites. A small percentage of cyclists are
self-righteous and egocentric, and do not think about or perhaps care about
how they are perceived. It's exhibited by cyclists that ride two or three
abreast on a busy road, chatting and seemingly oblivious to traffic. Could
be it has nothing to do with cycling at all, and these people exhibit the
same behavior in everything they do.

So, agree, time to move on and find another coffeehouse but we cyclists
should do some introspection too.

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Gregg Magnus
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 11:58 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] If you ride a bike and drink coffee read this...

If you ride a bike and drink coffee you should read this

http://bikeportland.org/2011/04/14/owner-of-hillsboro-coffeehouse-says-cycli
sts-have-worn-out-welcome-51445


They have forever lost my business...what a load of crap.

Gregg

Kevin

I've ridden the PV rides starting from there. I'm going to side with the owner
on this one. To PV's credit they draw a lot of cyclists to their rides. There
have seen signs up asking cyclists to please park away from the entrance to the
business. I think the actual wording was around the side of the building.
Still, when arriving for the ride I'd see vehicle after vehicle parked front and
center unloading bikes and preparing to ride. Following the ride I've seen it,
we all have... a group of cyclists visiting following their ride. Some
enjoying drinks and food from the establishment, others reaching into their
pockets and having their preferred super power granola gooey gel bar and sipping
from their bottle of perpetuem or recoverite. So what the owner got in return
for supplying a warm and dry place to chat as well as a well supplied restroom
that was clean, had hot water, and appropriate paper supplies... from a
significant number of riders was a car parked in front of his business most of
the day despite being asked not to and a sweaty body taking table space while
eating stuff brought from home. Good will only goes so far as a business model.

There are plenty of big parking lots in the area and huge amounts of on street
parking. No food or drink in those places, no restrooms, but you don't expect
to get those for free do you?

Kevin

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What is happening in Kevin's corner of the bike world?
http://the-whir-of-spokes-in-air.blogspot.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

dacrizzow

yeah, the owner is completely in his right and as cyclists we should respect that by not going to his business. plenty of coffee shops in and around portland willing to take money from cyclists.

Rick Johnson

Funny all this "tempest in a coffee pot". Bottom line is the owner is
fully within his rights to accept or deny service to whomever he
pleases. Heck, over here in Central Oregon it wasn't so long ago loggers
had the same problem with their footwear. "No Caulks Allowed" was a
common sign around town.

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

Liberal intercourse - founding father approved since 1796

On 4/16/2011 11:58 AM, Gregg Magnus wrote:
> If you ride a bike and drink coffee you should read this
>
> http://bikeportland.org/2011/04/14/owner-of-hillsboro-coffeehouse-says-cyclists-have-worn-out-welcome-51445
>
>
> They have forever lost my business...what a load of crap.
>
> Gregg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Gregg Magnus

If you ride a bike and drink coffee you should read this

http://bikeportland.org/2011/04/14/owner-of-hillsboro-coffeehouse-says-cyclists-have-worn-out-welcome-51445


They have forever lost my business...what a load of crap.

Gregg