You forgot a water crossing and something to bunny hop!!
Mike
On May 3, 2011, at 3:55 PM, douglas wrote:
> maybe a couple miles of gravel, 1000' climbing and an off camber section for good measure.
> _______________________________________________
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maybe a couple miles of gravel, 1000' climbing and an off camber section for good measure.
Ooooo.. Gordie. Contact me off list. Would love to chat with you
about one in the Salem area.
A couple of us have been thinking of potential places down here.
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Gordie Cumming wrote:
> I think the last thing we need is one more series in the PDX area. That would be just one more reason people in Portland would not need to race anywhere else other than PDX. Encouraging racing outside of the metro area would be a plus.
>
> Some Corvallis people are forming a new Triathlon Club and are discussing putting on a TT/Duathlon series located in the Salem area. We have not decided the format, or length. Idea's are somewhat like Will's; use different courses to attract a variety of people. The duathlon aspect would be to attract triathletes. We are not sure if it would be a USAT or OBRA event. That would come down to cost.
>
> Gordie
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>
>
--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org
I think the last thing we need is one more series in the PDX area. That would be just one more reason people in Portland would not need to race anywhere else other than PDX. Encouraging racing outside of the metro area would be a plus.
Some Corvallis people are forming a new Triathlon Club and are discussing putting on a TT/Duathlon series located in the Salem area. We have not decided the format, or length. Idea's are somewhat like Will's; use different courses to attract a variety of people. The duathlon aspect would be to attract triathletes. We are not sure if it would be a USAT or OBRA event. That would come down to cost.
Gordie
I will speak with Lusby and VBC about such a beast. It doenst have to
be
long, but perhaps a weekly 10 mile series once a month for starters.
Simply
to gauge interest.
Joe
On Mon, 2 May 2011 12:38:00 -0700, "T. Kenji Sugahara"
wrote:
> I wholeheartedly support the idea of a TT series in the Portland
> metro. Bend has one, Eugene has one and Medford has one.
>
> I've mentioned it to promoters in the past. I think the biggest
> barrier is finding a good location. Vancouver is getting expensive
> with permits. Phil Sanders can tell you how much (Jack Frost fees).
>>From my perspective I think it would be a great way to get triathletes
> racing some more in OBRA. RAO puts on some great longer TT's but I
> would love to see 20K TT weekly races (Olympic distance) along with
> 40K distances on the weekends- with perhaps 1 90K year strategically
> placed for training for Ironman. Perhaps staging at a school so if
> racers wanted to do a brick workout they could. We already have a
> bunch of great triathlete teams around and I think getting more
> athletes racing is good.
>
> Another idea for a race- maybe a weekend 40K TT at Hagg lake for
> practice for the Hagg Lake Tri? Or perhaps use the Blue Lake tri
> location?
>
> Getting permission from road use authorities is also crucial.
>
> k-
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 8:47 AM, Melissa Boyd
> wrote:
>> Don't forget the Tuesday night Hutch's TT series just north of Eugene! It
>> starts tomorrow and will run all through May.
>>
>> Melissa
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 8:39 AM, wrote:
>>>
>>> That series still exists. It is put on by the Vancouver Bike Club but
>>> IS NOT
>>> an OBRA-sanctioned event. It has been discussed often but the cost of
>>> doing
>>> so outweighs the return for such an event.
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> On Mon, 2 May 2011 05:22:13 +0000, "Darell"
>>> wrote:
>>> > Years ago there used to be a weekly series at Vancouver Lake during
>>> > the summer. Seems like that would still be an excellent venue.
>>> >
>>> > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: Sarah Tisdale
>>> > Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Sun, 1 May 2011 21:20:20
>>> > To: Obra
>>> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > OBRA mailing list
>>> > obra@list.obra.org
>>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > OBRA mailing list
>>> > obra@list.obra.org
>>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
I wholeheartedly support the idea of a TT series in the Portland
metro. Bend has one, Eugene has one and Medford has one.
I've mentioned it to promoters in the past. I think the biggest
barrier is finding a good location. Vancouver is getting expensive
with permits. Phil Sanders can tell you how much (Jack Frost fees).
>From my perspective I think it would be a great way to get triathletes
racing some more in OBRA. RAO puts on some great longer TT's but I
would love to see 20K TT weekly races (Olympic distance) along with
40K distances on the weekends- with perhaps 1 90K year strategically
placed for training for Ironman. Perhaps staging at a school so if
racers wanted to do a brick workout they could. We already have a
bunch of great triathlete teams around and I think getting more
athletes racing is good.
Another idea for a race- maybe a weekend 40K TT at Hagg lake for
practice for the Hagg Lake Tri? Or perhaps use the Blue Lake tri
location?
Getting permission from road use authorities is also crucial.
k-
On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 8:47 AM, Melissa Boyd wrote:
> Don't forget the Tuesday night Hutch's TT series just north of Eugene! It
> starts tomorrow and will run all through May.
>
> Melissa
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 8:39 AM, wrote:
>>
>> That series still exists. It is put on by the Vancouver Bike Club but
>> IS NOT
>> an OBRA-sanctioned event. It has been discussed often but the cost of
>> doing
>> so outweighs the return for such an event.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> On Mon, 2 May 2011 05:22:13 +0000, "Darell"
>> wrote:
>> > Years ago there used to be a weekly series at Vancouver Lake during
>> > the summer. Seems like that would still be an excellent venue.
>> >
>> > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Sarah Tisdale
>> > Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Sun, 1 May 2011 21:20:20
>> > To: Obra
>> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > OBRA mailing list
>> > obra@list.obra.org
>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > OBRA mailing list
>> > obra@list.obra.org
>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org
It is not a 'sanctioned' event. No insurance permit is in place as it
is
simply a club event. Akin to a VBC or RCW group ride. There has been
talk
of making it an OBRA event once a month or so, plus they have a 30K
event
that would take place the week before the Peoria TT. Since Peoria has
been
moved up into June, the 30K event has been dropped more or less.
I could bring up the idea of an OBRA event to Mike Lusby (the TT
coordinator)
and get his feelings on it.
Joe
On Mon, 2 May 2011 13:57:46 +0000, "Mike Murray"
wrote:
> Could have BAR points but it is not an OBRA event. Does it have a
> road use permit and/or liability insurance?
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Richardson
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 06:25:29
> To: darellp@easystreet.net
> Cc: OBRA;
> obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
>
> It's still running. It would be and is an excellent venue. Cheap
> entry, friendly folks, and everything from normal bikes to
> single-speeds to TT bikes. No BAR points, but plenty of honest racing.
>
>
> Mike
>
> On May 1, 2011, at 10:22 PM, "Darell" wrote:
>
>> Years ago there used to be a weekly series at Vancouver Lake during the summer. Seems like that would still be an excellent venue.
>>
>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sarah Tisdale
>> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Sun, 1 May 2011 21:20:20
>> To: Obra
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
And our Chief Judge, Stacia Hood, will be shouting your finish time to you as you cross the line!
Well...maybe not quite that quick...but she's very good. She typically has times calculated before the racer's vision clears and hear-rate drops back in to double-digits.
Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 08:47:53 -0700
From: melissafroggie@gmail.com
To: joec@aracnet.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org; obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
Don't forget the Tuesday night Hutch's TT series just north of Eugene! It starts tomorrow and will run all through May.
Melissa
On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 8:39 AM, wrote:
That series still exists. It is put on by the Vancouver Bike Club but
IS NOT
an OBRA-sanctioned event. It has been discussed often but the cost of
doing
so outweighs the return for such an event.
Joe
On Mon, 2 May 2011 05:22:13 +0000, "Darell"
wrote:
> Years ago there used to be a weekly series at Vancouver Lake during
> the summer. Seems like that would still be an excellent venue.
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah Tisdale
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Sun, 1 May 2011 21:20:20
> To: Obra
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
You guys are totally missing the point. If you don't race with a disc
wheel, you don't get that really cool "whoosh" sound. All you hear is your
own wheezing. I have paid thousands of dollars at this point to drown out
all the wheezing.
Karsten Hagen
On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Mike Richardson wrote:
> Man, for me you guys are fixing something that ain't broke. I couldn't ask
> for results faster than I got at Estacada today. The only lag isn't timing
> or calculating it's the runner bringing the printout down to the awards
> table. There are some TTs that hit the web 24 hours later but I have my
> clock time to keep me motivated anyway.
>
> And I had to Google Merckx rules but for me that's a no thank you. I love
> Eddy Merckx but for me part of the fun is the gadgets. I did 3 years of TTs
> on my regular bike, and will again for a hillclimb, but would miss the aero
> on a flat course. Maybe add a race with one class for no aero so people have
> a choice. But don't screw up the ones we already have, please!!
>
> And if you think we're short of TT racers, come to Peoria or Jack Frost. I
> think we have plenty, we just have other choices too!!
>
> Mike
>
> On May 1, 2011, at 4:21 PM, Erik Long wrote:
>
> > Yes, but it depends upon what you perceive to be "improvement".
> >
> > Like many, I see an improvement as something that would increase the
> number of participants. Getting results right in a timely fashion is
> important to all types of individual competition. With or without that
> factor, as it sits with Time Trials at the moment, the isolated tt event is
> kind of a pointless pursuit unless you're willing to throw gobs of cash at a
> time trial bike.
> >
> > Promote a "Merckx Rules" (or similar) TT series and you draw from a much
> larger pool of riders. Make as many people as possible feel like they can
> be competitive on their existing equipment, and they will come.
> >
> > Those with deep pockets and wind-tunnel tested tt bikes available to them
> may opt out of such and event, but you'll get more racers.
> >
> > -Erik
> >
> > > Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 13:57:10 -0700
> > > From: DrAxeman1@cs.com
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
> > >
> > > I know that many of you don't consider time trails "real racing," but
> for me, the race of truth is as real as it gets. I am not trying to
> complain, and so before all of the hate comes in about, "if you are so
> smart, do it yourself" I will say that I post this in order to do exactly
> that. I would like to try to see if we can improve TTing in Oregon. Maybe
> even to the point where real racers will enjoy them!
> > >
> > > The big problem I have right now is the fact that it seems damn near
> impossible to get any sort of timely results for these races. I am not sure
> what the problem is with that, but in my opinion, it needs to change. Who
> wants to race and then find out three days later if they have won or lost
> (exaggeration, but you get my point)?
> > >
> > > When I raced in NJ, I was part of the TT cup committee and we did our
> best to create the best organized TT series in the country. I would be happy
> to assist and share my knowledge so that we could perhaps do something like
> this in OR. In addition, I can look into a very simple Excel program that we
> used in NJ with much success to get timely results to the racers so that
> they could know their placings, or, if there was an error, they could
> actually enter a protest within USAC's 15 minute protest window. Most
> results were posted within 30 minutes of the category finishing, and many
> times, in significantly less time than that.
> > >
> > > I don't know if anyone has thoughts on this, but I am willing to donate
> time and resources to seeing some changes for the better.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > William J. O'Donnell, DC
> > > Chiropractic Physician
> > > Vertebrata Chiropractic
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
Don't forget the Tuesday night Hutch's TT series just north of Eugene! It
starts tomorrow and will run all through May.
Melissa
On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 8:39 AM, wrote:
> That series still exists. It is put on by the Vancouver Bike Club but
> IS NOT
> an OBRA-sanctioned event. It has been discussed often but the cost of
> doing
> so outweighs the return for such an event.
>
> Joe
>
> On Mon, 2 May 2011 05:22:13 +0000, "Darell"
> wrote:
> > Years ago there used to be a weekly series at Vancouver Lake during
> > the summer. Seems like that would still be an excellent venue.
> >
> > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sarah Tisdale
> > Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Sun, 1 May 2011 21:20:20
> > To: Obra
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
That series still exists. It is put on by the Vancouver Bike Club but
IS NOT
an OBRA-sanctioned event. It has been discussed often but the cost of
doing
so outweighs the return for such an event.
Joe
On Mon, 2 May 2011 05:22:13 +0000, "Darell"
wrote:
> Years ago there used to be a weekly series at Vancouver Lake during
> the summer. Seems like that would still be an excellent venue.
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah Tisdale
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Sun, 1 May 2011 21:20:20
> To: Obra
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
Could have BAR points but it is not an OBRA event. Does it have a road use permit and/or liability insurance?
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Richardson
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 06:25:29
To: darellp@easystreet.net
Cc: OBRA; obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
It's still running. It would be and is an excellent venue. Cheap entry, friendly folks, and everything from normal bikes to single-speeds to TT bikes. No BAR points, but plenty of honest racing.
Mike
On May 1, 2011, at 10:22 PM, "Darell" wrote:
> Years ago there used to be a weekly series at Vancouver Lake during the summer. Seems like that would still be an excellent venue.
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah Tisdale
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Sun, 1 May 2011 21:20:20
> To: Obra
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
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It's still running. It would be and is an excellent venue. Cheap entry, friendly folks, and everything from normal bikes to single-speeds to TT bikes. No BAR points, but plenty of honest racing.
Mike
On May 1, 2011, at 10:22 PM, "Darell" wrote:
> Years ago there used to be a weekly series at Vancouver Lake during the summer. Seems like that would still be an excellent venue.
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah Tisdale
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Sun, 1 May 2011 21:20:20
> To: Obra
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
The Vancouver Bicycle Club runs a 10 mile TT every Thursday near Vancouver Lake.
This week will be week #3 of 2011. The TTs are free for VBC members or cost $2
for non-members. There are no prizes but it is a great place to test yourself
and see your results from one week to the next.
________________________________
From: Darell
To: Sarah Tisdale ; obra-bounces@list.obra.org; OBRA
Sent: Sun, May 1, 2011 10:22:13 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
Years ago there used to be a weekly series at Vancouver Lake during the summer.
Seems like that would still be an excellent venue.
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah Tisdale
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Sun, 1 May 2011 21:20:20
To: Obra
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
Years ago there used to be a weekly series at Vancouver Lake during the summer. Seems like that would still be an excellent venue.
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah Tisdale
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Sun, 1 May 2011 21:20:20
To: Obra
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
I like the idea of a "TT series"! Of course, making it happen would take
someone to really champion the idea (not something I would take on). You
could simply join the existing races together. The winner could get glory,
cash, or neato aero gadgets.
It also would seem pretty simple to add two "Merckx Rules" cats (one for
women, one for men) to existing TTs. Of course, I'm not a promoter - maybe
adding categories is hard?
Sarah
On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Adam Kennedy wrote:
> I think an Eddie style category would be a wonderful addition to
> single day tts. However, that still won't get you around the results
> delay (Although that delay doesn't bother me personally). TTs attract
> a different breed of racer maybe, as does PIR and stage races. I think
> diversifying local tt categories (eg. Clydesdale, ss, steel pre-90s)
> and improving TT logistics would be a good thing.
>
> Thanks Will.
>
> Adam
>
> Sent from my mobile device
>
> On May 1, 2011, at 4:21 PM, Erik Long wrote:
>
> > Yes, but it depends upon what you perceive to be "improvement".
> >
> > Like many, I see an improvement as something that would increase the
> number of participants. Getting results right in a timely fashion is
> important to all types of individual competition. With or without that
> factor, as it sits with Time Trials at the moment, the isolated tt event is
> kind of a pointless pursuit unless you're willing to throw gobs of cash at a
> time trial bike.
> >
> > Promote a "Merckx Rules" (or similar) TT series and you draw from a much
> larger pool of riders. Make as many people as possible feel like they can
> be competitive on their existing equipment, and they will come.
> >
> > Those with deep pockets and wind-tunnel tested tt bikes available to them
> may opt out of such and event, but you'll get more racers.
> >
> > -Erik
> >
> > > Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 13:57:10 -0700
> > > From: DrAxeman1@cs.com
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
> > >
> > > I know that many of you don't consider time trails "real racing," but
> for me, the race of truth is as real as it gets. I am not trying to
> complain, and so before all of the hate comes in about, "if you are so
> smart, do it yourself" I will say that I post this in order to do exactly
> that. I would like to try to see if we can improve TTing in Oregon. Maybe
> even to the point where real racers will enjoy them!
> > >
> > > The big problem I have right now is the fact that it seems damn near
> impossible to get any sort of timely results for these races. I am not sure
> what the problem is with that, but in my opinion, it needs to change. Who
> wants to race and then find out three days later if they have won or lost
> (exaggeration, but you get my point)?
> > >
> > > When I raced in NJ, I was part of the TT cup committee and we did our
> best to create the best organized TT series in the country. I would be happy
> to assist and share my knowledge so that we could perhaps do something like
> this in OR. In addition, I can look into a very simple Excel program that we
> used in NJ with much success to get timely results to the racers so that
> they could know their placings, or, if there was an error, they could
> actually enter a protest within USAC's 15 minute protest window. Most
> results were posted within 30 minutes of the category finishing, and many
> times, in significantly less time than that.
> > >
> > > I don't know if anyone has thoughts on this, but I am willing to donate
> time and resources to seeing some changes for the better.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > William J. O'Donnell, DC
> > > Chiropractic Physician
> > > Vertebrata Chiropractic
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
I think an Eddie style category would be a wonderful addition to
single day tts. However, that still won't get you around the results
delay (Although that delay doesn't bother me personally). TTs attract
a different breed of racer maybe, as does PIR and stage races. I think
diversifying local tt categories (eg. Clydesdale, ss, steel pre-90s)
and improving TT logistics would be a good thing.
Thanks Will.
Adam
Sent from my mobile device
On May 1, 2011, at 4:21 PM, Erik Long wrote:
> Yes, but it depends upon what you perceive to be "improvement".
>
> Like many, I see an improvement as something that would increase the number of participants. Getting results right in a timely fashion is important to all types of individual competition. With or without that factor, as it sits with Time Trials at the moment, the isolated tt event is kind of a pointless pursuit unless you're willing to throw gobs of cash at a time trial bike.
>
> Promote a "Merckx Rules" (or similar) TT series and you draw from a much larger pool of riders. Make as many people as possible feel like they can be competitive on their existing equipment, and they will come.
>
> Those with deep pockets and wind-tunnel tested tt bikes available to them may opt out of such and event, but you'll get more racers.
>
> -Erik
>
> > Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 13:57:10 -0700
> > From: DrAxeman1@cs.com
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
> >
> > I know that many of you don't consider time trails "real racing," but for me, the race of truth is as real as it gets. I am not trying to complain, and so before all of the hate comes in about, "if you are so smart, do it yourself" I will say that I post this in order to do exactly that. I would like to try to see if we can improve TTing in Oregon. Maybe even to the point where real racers will enjoy them!
> >
> > The big problem I have right now is the fact that it seems damn near impossible to get any sort of timely results for these races. I am not sure what the problem is with that, but in my opinion, it needs to change. Who wants to race and then find out three days later if they have won or lost (exaggeration, but you get my point)?
> >
> > When I raced in NJ, I was part of the TT cup committee and we did our best to create the best organized TT series in the country. I would be happy to assist and share my knowledge so that we could perhaps do something like this in OR. In addition, I can look into a very simple Excel program that we used in NJ with much success to get timely results to the racers so that they could know their placings, or, if there was an error, they could actually enter a protest within USAC's 15 minute protest window. Most results were posted within 30 minutes of the category finishing, and many times, in significantly less time than that.
> >
> > I don't know if anyone has thoughts on this, but I am willing to donate time and resources to seeing some changes for the better.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > William J. O'Donnell, DC
> > Chiropractic Physician
> > Vertebrata Chiropractic
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
Man, for me you guys are fixing something that ain't broke. I couldn't ask for results faster than I got at Estacada today. The only lag isn't timing or calculating it's the runner bringing the printout down to the awards table. There are some TTs that hit the web 24 hours later but I have my clock time to keep me motivated anyway.
And I had to Google Merckx rules but for me that's a no thank you. I love Eddy Merckx but for me part of the fun is the gadgets. I did 3 years of TTs on my regular bike, and will again for a hillclimb, but would miss the aero on a flat course. Maybe add a race with one class for no aero so people have a choice. But don't screw up the ones we already have, please!!
And if you think we're short of TT racers, come to Peoria or Jack Frost. I think we have plenty, we just have other choices too!!
Mike
On May 1, 2011, at 4:21 PM, Erik Long wrote:
> Yes, but it depends upon what you perceive to be "improvement".
>
> Like many, I see an improvement as something that would increase the number of participants. Getting results right in a timely fashion is important to all types of individual competition. With or without that factor, as it sits with Time Trials at the moment, the isolated tt event is kind of a pointless pursuit unless you're willing to throw gobs of cash at a time trial bike.
>
> Promote a "Merckx Rules" (or similar) TT series and you draw from a much larger pool of riders. Make as many people as possible feel like they can be competitive on their existing equipment, and they will come.
>
> Those with deep pockets and wind-tunnel tested tt bikes available to them may opt out of such and event, but you'll get more racers.
>
> -Erik
>
> > Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 13:57:10 -0700
> > From: DrAxeman1@cs.com
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
> >
> > I know that many of you don't consider time trails "real racing," but for me, the race of truth is as real as it gets. I am not trying to complain, and so before all of the hate comes in about, "if you are so smart, do it yourself" I will say that I post this in order to do exactly that. I would like to try to see if we can improve TTing in Oregon. Maybe even to the point where real racers will enjoy them!
> >
> > The big problem I have right now is the fact that it seems damn near impossible to get any sort of timely results for these races. I am not sure what the problem is with that, but in my opinion, it needs to change. Who wants to race and then find out three days later if they have won or lost (exaggeration, but you get my point)?
> >
> > When I raced in NJ, I was part of the TT cup committee and we did our best to create the best organized TT series in the country. I would be happy to assist and share my knowledge so that we could perhaps do something like this in OR. In addition, I can look into a very simple Excel program that we used in NJ with much success to get timely results to the racers so that they could know their placings, or, if there was an error, they could actually enter a protest within USAC's 15 minute protest window. Most results were posted within 30 minutes of the category finishing, and many times, in significantly less time than that.
> >
> > I don't know if anyone has thoughts on this, but I am willing to donate time and resources to seeing some changes for the better.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > William J. O'Donnell, DC
> > Chiropractic Physician
> > Vertebrata Chiropractic
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
I disagree strongly. There is not much return for investment in a TT bike after you put on TT bars and aero wheels. Actually really only the front wheel is significant. This hardly qualifies as "gobs of cash". It is very possible to win TTs on a cheap bike. Bikes can lose races but they never win races. The idea that you can drastically improve performance with equipment alone is marketing hype.
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Long
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 16:21:15
To: ; Obra
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
Yes, but it depends upon what you perceive to be "improvement".
Like many, I see an improvement as something that would increase the number of participants. Getting results right in a timely fashion is important to all types of individual competition. With or without that factor, as it sits with Time Trials at the moment, the isolated tt event is kind of a pointless pursuit unless you're willing to throw gobs of cash at a time trial bike.
Promote a "Merckx Rules" (or similar) TT series and you draw from a much larger pool of riders. Make as many people as possible feel like they can be competitive on their existing equipment, and they will come.
Those with deep pockets and wind-tunnel tested tt bikes available to them may opt out of such and event, but you'll get more racers.
-Erik
> Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 13:57:10 -0700
> From: DrAxeman1@cs.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
>
> I know that many of you don't consider time trails "real racing," but for me, the race of truth is as real as it gets. I am not trying to complain, and so before all of the hate comes in about, "if you are so smart, do it yourself" I will say that I post this in order to do exactly that. I would like to try to see if we can improve TTing in Oregon. Maybe even to the point where real racers will enjoy them!
>
> The big problem I have right now is the fact that it seems damn near impossible to get any sort of timely results for these races. I am not sure what the problem is with that, but in my opinion, it needs to change. Who wants to race and then find out three days later if they have won or lost (exaggeration, but you get my point)?
>
> When I raced in NJ, I was part of the TT cup committee and we did our best to create the best organized TT series in the country. I would be happy to assist and share my knowledge so that we could perhaps do something like this in OR. In addition, I can look into a very simple Excel program that we used in NJ with much success to get timely results to the racers so that they could know their placings, or, if there was an error, they could actually enter a protest within USAC's 15 minute protest window. Most results were posted within 30 minutes of the category finishing, and many times, in significantly less time than that.
>
> I don't know if anyone has thoughts on this, but I am willing to donate time and resources to seeing some changes for the better.
>
> Thanks.
>
> William J. O'Donnell, DC
> Chiropractic Physician
> Vertebrata Chiropractic
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
William
We have an excellent excel program. And use it at almost all of the races. Which races are you not getting results?
Candi
-----Original Message-----
From: "William" [DrAxeman1@cs.com]
Date: 05/01/2011 04:57 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Can we improve TTs?
I know that many of you don't consider time trails "real racing," but for me, the race of truth is as real as it gets. I am not trying to complain, and so before all of the hate comes in about, "if you are so smart, do it yourself" I will say that I post this in order to do exactly that. I would like to try to see if we can improve TTing in Oregon. Maybe even to the point where real racers will enjoy them!
The big problem I have right now is the fact that it seems damn near impossible to get any sort of timely results for these races. I am not sure what the problem is with that, but in my opinion, it needs to change. Who wants to race and then find out three days later if they have won or lost (exaggeration, but you get my point)?
When I raced in NJ, I was part of the TT cup committee and we did our best to create the best organized TT series in the country. I would be happy to assist and share my knowledge so that we could perhaps do something like this in OR. In addition, I can look into a very simple Excel program that we used in NJ with much success to get timely results to the racers so that they could know their placings, or, if there was an error, they could actually enter a protest within USAC's 15 minute protest window. Most results were posted within 30 minutes of the category finishing, and many times, in significantly less time than that.
I don't know if anyone has thoughts on this, but I am willing to donate time and resources to seeing some changes for the better.
Thanks.
William J. O'Donnell, DC
Chiropractic Physician
Vertebrata Chiropractic
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
I know that many of you don't consider time trails "real racing," but for me, the race of truth is as real as it gets. I am not trying to complain, and so before all of the hate comes in about, "if you are so smart, do it yourself" I will say that I post this in order to do exactly that. I would like to try to see if we can improve TTing in Oregon. Maybe even to the point where real racers will enjoy them!
The big problem I have right now is the fact that it seems damn near impossible to get any sort of timely results for these races. I am not sure what the problem is with that, but in my opinion, it needs to change. Who wants to race and then find out three days later if they have won or lost (exaggeration, but you get my point)?
When I raced in NJ, I was part of the TT cup committee and we did our best to create the best organized TT series in the country. I would be happy to assist and share my knowledge so that we could perhaps do something like this in OR. In addition, I can look into a very simple Excel program that we used in NJ with much success to get timely results to the racers so that they could know their placings, or, if there was an error, they could actually enter a protest within USAC's 15 minute protest window. Most results were posted within 30 minutes of the category finishing, and many times, in significantly less time than that.
I don't know if anyone has thoughts on this, but I am willing to donate time and resources to seeing some changes for the better.
Thanks.
William J. O'Donnell, DC
Chiropractic Physician
Vertebrata Chiropractic
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