Luciano bailey

Many great points made I am of the belief that there has been to much emphasis on category vanity prompting many up and coming guys to just Cat up so they can get in with the big boys. This at the risk of over looking the most important phases of development ,technique, and most importantly decision making. David Auker stands out for his awareness and his uncanny ability to calculate risk reward factors. Many riders in the present want only to clip in next to these veterans without disecting what makes them great, surely not just speed, the race does not always go to the swift. Many of the recent incidents have been totally avoidable situations and have come down to being aware and knowing what to expect. That is if folks stick to making moves that can be considered predictable. Rollers yes but taking advantage of the great veterans available for mentoring absolutely the answer. Thanks to all the old schoolers that have stuck around to preserve some of the the purety needed in the sport.

Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 23:02:44 -0700
From: chbendboy@gmail.com
To: davecampbell828@charter.net
CC: obra@list.obra.org; nachtusa@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

practical application is the only way people get better. lots of great suggestions and funny posts but i hope that new riders to the peleton read this, seek mentors, and apply techniques they are taught. I'm typing this with a broken wrist from a masters race and wondering if racing in the bunch is for me anymore. I love to ride but I refuse to get wrecked out by people that make bad decisions or mistakes and put other people in harms way (yes, I'm old bitter and maybe the racing is better left to the up and comers). When I was young and up and coming senior riders made me very uncomfortable by hitting my real rear wheel with their front wheel, punching and pushing my hips and even my handlebars on occasion to make sure I wouldn't overreact. I love riding riding and racing and want to do it as long as my body and soul are capable. Teams, please take the time to adopt young riders and teach them proper manners and have fun with it. Some of my favorite memories are my thanksgiving day rides with my bro and bro in law on the ice and snow covered roads in Bend with beers in our bellies on our mt. bikes aggressively trying to wreck each other (pushing, taunting, rubbing wheels, having a blast while improving ourselves).

Great post topic! Please be safe and as one of my best mentors told me: "go fast without working hard (be smart and draft) and don't take undue risk for average results" (ed french)

CH

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Dave Campbell wrote:

I think the difference is perhaps not bike handling, but risk assessment. Having witnessed some pretty silly manuevers at Masters PIRs in recent yrs, for whatever reasons (I have a variety of speculations here I won't go into) people seem to sometimes take unnecessary risks. The bike handling, overall, seems pretty good. In other words, risking LOTS with LITTLE to gain.

Just because we pin a number on, should we risk our neck out there? One of my first 1/2 races in the late 80s, Harry Phinney (at that time one of the strong guys I admired) sat up out of a scarey scenario and said "I have to go to work tomorrow" and that made an impact on me. When I see a rider coming inside with half a lap to go and elbowing somebody repeatedly, with others close in behind while 10 riders back at a Monday Night PIR and then defending it as "when I pin a number on...man, something just happens to me" (DIRECT QUOTE) I think we need to remember the lesson from Harry.

Sometimes what I have seen is the actual RACE KNOWLEDGE that is lacking. People getting lulled into following the standard dynamics of what the race "usually tends to be" rather than being creative and intuitive and even just doing the "logical thing" (stay out of the wind on the wheel in front of you) versus the "we always just sit up after a hot spot" dynamic that evolves from repetition and redundancy. LOTS of people are well trained (often through coaching) but not necessarily well versed (obtrained through experience but also through coaching and mentoring, what I experienced through clubs and experienced veterans like the great David Auker taking team to TEACH younger riders).

Get out and race, admire those that do well, but reach out to, fraternize with your peers, listen to the top riders and learn from them. Many of them have a lot to teach. Again, I think of David Auker and I am sure MANY on this list can share story after story of how he taught us, shared, and helped us grow.

RIDE ON!!!

DC
----- Original Message -----

From: tackyglueit
To: Don Joling
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

the bikes are way, way to light and snappy now.

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Don Joling wrote:

Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race with lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills, how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting, know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back as the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I remember.
Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
_______________________________________________
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http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Mike Richardson

Holy Smokes and I don't means smokes. I thought the "Thou shalt not putz with thy Garmin" post was hilarious but now it's not so funny.

Maybe time to add computers to the no aerobars rule at PIR??

And I'm racing (elsewhere) tonight, pardon me while I hurry off to shave my legs. Anything to help!!

Mike

On May 12, 2011, at 1:52 PM, Nate Gibson wrote:

> You guys are over complicating it. Here is my two cents:
> I was directly diagonal to two crashes. I didnt recognize half the field In The 3/4's but watched somebody staring at their computer ride into the wall and take a bunch of folks out and someone sprinting like a retard take out some more. Never seen such sketchy riding and I've been in a couple races. How can you crash with 45 feet of wide open Tarmac? Let alone repeat the feat 3 times.
>
> No rollers or bump n grinding just some common sense. That's all that's needed. No offense to those that who hit the deck but If the rider in front of you with the hairy legs and rusty chain is riding like they did on Tuesday it's time to pick a new wheel.
>
> Sent from Nate's iPhone.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

jon.ragsdale@comcast.net

How about a Chinese Downhill?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandon"
To: ""
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 1:32:28 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

Bring back crew jones and hell track but for roadies!!!

BM

On May 12, 2011, at 1:29 PM, wrote:

> Rollerball on Wheels. Once can hear the distant crowd chants of
> 'Jonathon! Jonathon!'
> as I type this.
>
> Joe
>
> On Thu, 12 May 2011 16:16:48 -0400 (EDT), "jeff@ultrafreaks.net"
> wrote:
>> Or go the other way and have a weekly Mad Max night at PIR where all
>> the butthonks that want to spit-yell, grab handlebars and push each
>> other over can really let it all out. Ben Hur hubs with razor blades.
>>
>> On May 12, 2011 at 4:00 PM Justin Drawbert wrote:
>>
>> i think everyone here is missing the point about the rollers
>> comment. don't you see?? that's the solution! OBRA should get away
>> from all this so called "road racing". it's simply too dangerous.
>> let's just do roller races from now on.
>>
>> of course, this does add a bit of complexity to scoring, what with
>> the roller speed sensors and all, but hey, at least we wouldn't be
>> fussing about timing chips.
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Don Joling wrote:
>> Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a
>> change in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to
>> call it) as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and
>> headed out on it's own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making
>> this a great place to race with lots of venues covering all the
>> disciplines of our sport.
>> The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like
>> a lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling
>> skills, how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very
>> evident in the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes?
>> Before that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight away,
>> people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close
>> to getting swept.
>> Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up
>> knitting, know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced
>> with as far back as the early 90's were talking during the race about
>> this very thing. I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer,
>> perhaps opening a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of
>> the crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I remember.
>> Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org [2]
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra [3]
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org [4]
>>
>> --
>> "It never gets easier, you just go faster." --Greg LeMond
>>
>>
>>
>> Links:
>> ------
>> [1] mailto:nachtusa@yahoo.com
>> [2] mailto:obra@list.obra.org
>> [3] http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> [4] mailto:obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Nate Gibson

You guys are over complicating it. Here is my two cents:
I was directly diagonal to two crashes. I didnt recognize half the field In The 3/4's but watched somebody staring at their computer ride into the wall and take a bunch of folks out and someone sprinting like a retard take out some more. Never seen such sketchy riding and I've been in a couple races. How can you crash with 45 feet of wide open Tarmac? Let alone repeat the feat 3 times.

No rollers or bump n grinding just some common sense. That's all that's needed. No offense to those that who hit the deck but If the rider in front of you with the hairy legs and rusty chain is riding like they did on Tuesday it's time to pick a new wheel.

Sent from Nate's iPhone.

Chris Alling

Rick it is actually sunny out right now. It must be there frustration with being at work looking outside wishing that they could ride.

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Rick Johnson
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 1:26 PM
To: jeff@ultrafreaks.net
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

Is it still raining in Portland?

Because if it's not I can't believe so much creativeness is being wasted by not coming up with an excuse to get out and actually go ride... Ben Hur hubs or not.

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

Every revolutionary idea seems to evoke three stages of reaction...
One, it's completely impossible.
Two, it's possible, but it's not worth doing.
Three, I said it was a good idea all along.

Arthur C. Clarke

On 5/12/2011 1:16 PM, jeff@ultrafreaks.net wrote:

Or go the other way and have a weekly Mad Max night at PIR where all the butthonks that want to spit-yell, grab handlebars and push each other over can really let it all out. Ben Hur hubs with razor blades.

On May 12, 2011 at 4:00 PM Justin Drawbert wrote:

i think everyone here is missing the point about the rollers comment. don't you see?? that's the solution! OBRA should get away from all this so called "road racing". it's simply too dangerous. let's just do roller races from now on.

of course, this does add a bit of complexity to scoring, what with the roller speed sensors and all, but hey, at least we wouldn't be fussing about timing chips.

Justin

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Don Joling wrote:

Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race with lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills, how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting, know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back as the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I remember.
Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
"It never gets easier, you just go faster." --Greg LeMond

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Brandon

Bring back crew jones and hell track but for roadies!!!

BM

On May 12, 2011, at 1:29 PM, wrote:

> Rollerball on Wheels. Once can hear the distant crowd chants of
> 'Jonathon! Jonathon!'
> as I type this.
>
> Joe
>
> On Thu, 12 May 2011 16:16:48 -0400 (EDT), "jeff@ultrafreaks.net"
> wrote:
>> Or go the other way and have a weekly Mad Max night at PIR where all
>> the butthonks that want to spit-yell, grab handlebars and push each
>> other over can really let it all out. Ben Hur hubs with razor blades.
>>
>> On May 12, 2011 at 4:00 PM Justin Drawbert wrote:
>>
>> i think everyone here is missing the point about the rollers
>> comment. don't you see?? that's the solution! OBRA should get away
>> from all this so called "road racing". it's simply too dangerous.
>> let's just do roller races from now on.
>>
>> of course, this does add a bit of complexity to scoring, what with
>> the roller speed sensors and all, but hey, at least we wouldn't be
>> fussing about timing chips.
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Don Joling wrote:
>> Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a
>> change in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to
>> call it) as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and
>> headed out on it's own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making
>> this a great place to race with lots of venues covering all the
>> disciplines of our sport.
>> The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like
>> a lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling
>> skills, how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very
>> evident in the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes?
>> Before that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight away,
>> people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close
>> to getting swept.
>> Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up
>> knitting, know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced
>> with as far back as the early 90's were talking during the race about
>> this very thing. I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer,
>> perhaps opening a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of
>> the crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I remember.
>> Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org [2]
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra [3]
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org [4]
>>
>> --
>> "It never gets easier, you just go faster." --Greg LeMond
>>
>>
>>
>> Links:
>> ------
>> [1] mailto:nachtusa@yahoo.com
>> [2] mailto:obra@list.obra.org
>> [3] http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> [4] mailto:obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

joec@aracnet.com

Rollerball on Wheels. Once can hear the distant crowd chants of
'Jonathon! Jonathon!'
as I type this.

Joe

On Thu, 12 May 2011 16:16:48 -0400 (EDT), "jeff@ultrafreaks.net"
wrote:
> Or go the other way and have a weekly Mad Max night at PIR where all
> the butthonks that want to spit-yell, grab handlebars and push each
> other over can really let it all out. Ben Hur hubs with razor blades.
>
> On May 12, 2011 at 4:00 PM Justin Drawbert wrote:
>
> i think everyone here is missing the point about the rollers
> comment. don't you see?? that's the solution! OBRA should get away
> from all this so called "road racing". it's simply too dangerous.
> let's just do roller races from now on.
>
> of course, this does add a bit of complexity to scoring, what with
> the roller speed sensors and all, but hey, at least we wouldn't be
> fussing about timing chips.
>
> Justin
>
> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Don Joling wrote:
> Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a
> change in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to
> call it) as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and
> headed out on it's own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making
> this a great place to race with lots of venues covering all the
> disciplines of our sport.
> The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like
> a lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling
> skills, how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very
> evident in the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes?
> Before that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight away,
> people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close
> to getting swept.
> Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up
> knitting, know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced
> with as far back as the early 90's were talking during the race about
> this very thing. I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer,
> perhaps opening a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of
> the crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I remember.
> Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org [2]
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra [3]
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org [4]
>
> --
> "It never gets easier, you just go faster." --Greg LeMond
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] mailto:nachtusa@yahoo.com
> [2] mailto:obra@list.obra.org
> [3] http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> [4] mailto:obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Rick Johnson

Is it still raining in Portland?



Because if it's not I can't believe so much creativeness is being
wasted by not coming up with an excuse to get out and actually go
ride... Ben Hur hubs or not.

Rick Johnson

Bend, Oregon

Every revolutionary idea seems to evoke three stages of reaction...

One, it's completely impossible. 

Two, it's possible, but it's not worth doing. 

Three, I said it was a good idea all along.

Arthur C. Clarke

 

Or go the other way and have a weekly Mad
Max night at PIR where all the butthonks that want to spit-yell,
grab handlebars and push each other over can really let it all
out.  Ben Hur hubs with razor blades.

 

 

On May 12, 2011 at 4:00 PM Justin Drawbert
<idrawbert@gmail.com> wrote:

 i think everyone here
is missing the point about the rollers comment. don't you
see?? that's the solution! OBRA should get away from all
this  so called "road racing". it's simply too dangerous.
let's just do roller races from now on.

of course, this does add a bit of complexity to scoring,
what with the roller speed sensors and all, but hey, at
least we wouldn't be fussing about timing chips.

Justin

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Don
Joling <nachtusa@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Having
come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a
change in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny
K. likes to call it) as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from
the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA officials
have done a great job in making this a great place to race
with lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our
sport.

The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on.
Seems like a lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some
sense of bike handling skills, how to work with their
team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2,
3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before
that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight
away, people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines,
wheels getting close to getting swept.

Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take
up knitting, know that myself and some of my teammates
that I have raced with as far back as the early 90's were
talking during the race about this very thing. I love this
sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening
a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of the
crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I
remember.

Peace, and keep the rubber side down.

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--

"It never gets easier, you just go faster." --Greg LeMond

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Richardson

Title sponsorship by AMR and Brave Soldier med kits ??

Mike

On May 12, 2011, at 1:16 PM, "jeff@ultrafreaks.net" wrote:

>
> Or go the other way and have a weekly Mad Max night at PIR where all the butthonks that want to spit-yell, grab handlebars and push each other over can really let it all out. Ben Hur hubs with razor blades.
>
>
>
> On May 12, 2011 at 4:00 PM Justin Drawbert wrote:
>
>> i think everyone here is missing the point about the rollers comment. don't you see?? that's the solution! OBRA should get away from all this so called "road racing". it's simply too dangerous. let's just do roller races from now on.
>> of course, this does add a bit of complexity to scoring, what with the roller speed sensors and all, but hey, at least we wouldn't be fussing about timing chips.
>> Justin
>>
>> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Don Joling wrote:
>> Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race with lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
>> The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills, how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
>> Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting, know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back as the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I remember.
>> Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "It never gets easier, you just go faster." --Greg LeMond
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Leibowitz, Flo

Gee, Jeff, most of us save the Ben Hur hubs for cyclocross. Along with the James Bond projectiles. Where ya been ??

________________________________
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of jeff@ultrafreaks.net [jeff@ultrafreaks.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 1:16 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

Or go the other way and have a weekly Mad Max night at PIR where all the butthonks that want to spit-yell, grab handlebars and push each other over can really let it all out. Ben Hur hubs with razor blades.

On May 12, 2011 at 4:00 PM Justin Drawbert wrote:

i think everyone here is missing the point about the rollers comment. don't you see?? that's the solution! OBRA should get away from all this so called "road racing". it's simply too dangerous. let's just do roller races from now on.
of course, this does add a bit of complexity to scoring, what with the roller speed sensors and all, but hey, at least we wouldn't be fussing about timing chips.
Justin

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Don Joling > wrote:
Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race with lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills, how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting, know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back as the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I remember.
Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
"It never gets easier, you just go faster." --Greg LeMond

jeff@ultrafreaks.net

 
Or go the other way and have a weekly Mad Max night at PIR where all the
butthonks that want to spit-yell, grab handlebars and push each other over can
really let it all out.  Ben Hur hubs with razor blades.
 
 

On May 12, 2011 at 4:00 PM Justin Drawbert wrote:

>  i think everyone here is missing the point about the rollers comment. don't
> you see?? that's the solution! OBRA should get away from all this  so called
> "road racing". it's simply too dangerous. let's just do roller races from now
> on.
>
> of course, this does add a bit of complexity to scoring, what with the roller
> speed sensors and all, but hey, at least we wouldn't be fussing about timing
> chips.
>
>
> Justin
>
> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Don Joling [mailto:nachtusa@yahoo.com] >wrote:
>
> > Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change in
> > our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a Cat
> > 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA
> > officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race with
> > lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
> > The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a lot
> > of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills, how to
> > work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2, 3
> > field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap on the
> > last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their brakes,
> > taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
> > Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting, know
> > that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back as
> > the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love
> > this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion
> > about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen
> > with more frequency than I remember.
> > Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org [mailto:obra@list.obra.org]
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > [mailto:obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org]
> >

>
>
> --
> "It never gets easier, you just go faster." --Greg LeMond
>
>

Justin Drawbert

i think everyone here is missing the point about the rollers comment. don't
you see?? that's the solution! OBRA should get away from all this so called
"road racing". it's simply too dangerous. let's just do roller races from
now on.

of course, this does add a bit of complexity to scoring, what with the
roller speed sensors and all, but hey, at least we wouldn't be fussing about
timing chips.

Justin

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Don Joling wrote:

> Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change in
> our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a Cat
> 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA
> officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race with
> lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
> The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a lot
> of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills, how to
> work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2, 3
> field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap on the
> last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their brakes,
> taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
> Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting, know
> that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back as
> the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love
> this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion
> about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen
> with more frequency than I remember.
> Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
"It never gets easier, you just go faster." --Greg LeMond

Jen

To all you veteran riders feeling the same way as Don...I challenge you to mentor novice racers (of all categories) through empathetic outreach, honest and thoughtful communication and modeling of solid riding skills. While racing in a men's category 3 crit, I was 'taught a lesson' by a veteran racer. He grabbed my handle bars and shook my bike while lodged in the peloton and racing at a high speed. Kind of sketchy, whether I deserved it or not. Not the best example from a veteran racer.

Jen

Craig Hamilton

practical application is the only way people get better. lots of great
suggestions and funny posts but i hope that new riders to the peleton read
this, seek mentors, and apply techniques they are taught. I'm typing this
with a broken wrist from a masters race and wondering if racing in the bunch
is for me anymore. I love to ride but I refuse to get wrecked out by people
that make bad decisions or mistakes and put other people in harms way (yes,
I'm old bitter and maybe the racing is better left to the up and comers).
When I was young and up and coming senior riders made me very uncomfortable
by hitting my real rear wheel with their front wheel, punching and pushing
my hips and even my handlebars on occasion to make sure I wouldn't
overreact. I love riding riding and racing and want to do it as long as my
body and soul are capable. Teams, please take the time to adopt young
riders and teach them proper manners and have fun with it. Some of my
favorite memories are my thanksgiving day rides with my bro and bro in
law on the ice and snow covered roads in Bend with beers in our bellies on
our mt. bikes aggressively trying to wreck each other (pushing, taunting,
rubbing wheels, having a blast while improving ourselves).

Great post topic! Please be safe and as one of my best mentors told me:
"go fast without working hard (be smart and draft) and don't take undue risk
for average results" (ed french)

CH

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Dave Campbell wrote:

> I think the difference is perhaps not bike handling, but risk
> assessment. Having witnessed some pretty silly manuevers at Masters PIRs in
> recent yrs, for whatever reasons (I have a variety of speculations here I
> won't go into) people seem to sometimes take unnecessary risks. The bike
> handling, overall, seems pretty good. In other words, risking LOTS with
> LITTLE to gain.
>
> Just because we pin a number on, should we risk our neck out there? One of
> my first 1/2 races in the late 80s, Harry Phinney (at that time one of the
> strong guys I admired) sat up out of a scarey scenario and said "I have to
> go to work tomorrow" and that made an impact on me. When I see a rider
> coming inside with half a lap to go and elbowing somebody repeatedly, with
> others close in behind while 10 riders back at a Monday Night PIR and then
> defending it as "when I pin a number on...man, something just happens to me"
> (DIRECT QUOTE) I think we need to remember the lesson from Harry.
>
> Sometimes what I have seen is the actual RACE KNOWLEDGE that is lacking.
> People getting lulled into following the standard dynamics of what the race
> "usually tends to be" rather than being creative and intuitive and even just
> doing the "logical thing" (stay out of the wind on the wheel in front of
> you) versus the "we always just sit up after a hot spot" dynamic that
> evolves from repetition and redundancy. LOTS of people are well trained
> (often through coaching) but not necessarily well versed (obtrained through
> experience but also through coaching and mentoring, what I experienced
> through clubs and experienced veterans like the great David Auker taking
> team to TEACH younger riders).
>
> Get out and race, admire those that do well, but reach out to, fraternize
> with your peers, listen to the top riders and learn from them. Many of them
> have a lot to teach. Again, I think of David Auker and I am sure MANY on
> this list can share story after story of how he taught us, shared, and
> helped us grow.
>
> RIDE ON!!!
>
> DC
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* tackyglueit
> *To:* Don Joling
> *Cc:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 11, 2011 2:13 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land
>
> the bikes are way, way to light and snappy now.
>
> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Don Joling wrote:
>
>> Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change
>> in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a
>> Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own.
>> OBRA officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race
>> with lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
>> The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a
>> lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills,
>> how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the
>> 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap
>> on the last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their
>> brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
>> Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting,
>> know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back
>> as the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love
>> this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion
>> about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen
>> with more frequency than I remember.
>> Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Dave Campbell

I think the difference is perhaps not bike handling, but risk assessment. Having witnessed some pretty silly manuevers at Masters PIRs in recent yrs, for whatever reasons (I have a variety of speculations here I won't go into) people seem to sometimes take unnecessary risks. The bike handling, overall, seems pretty good. In other words, risking LOTS with LITTLE to gain.

Just because we pin a number on, should we risk our neck out there? One of my first 1/2 races in the late 80s, Harry Phinney (at that time one of the strong guys I admired) sat up out of a scarey scenario and said "I have to go to work tomorrow" and that made an impact on me. When I see a rider coming inside with half a lap to go and elbowing somebody repeatedly, with others close in behind while 10 riders back at a Monday Night PIR and then defending it as "when I pin a number on...man, something just happens to me" (DIRECT QUOTE) I think we need to remember the lesson from Harry.

Sometimes what I have seen is the actual RACE KNOWLEDGE that is lacking. People getting lulled into following the standard dynamics of what the race "usually tends to be" rather than being creative and intuitive and even just doing the "logical thing" (stay out of the wind on the wheel in front of you) versus the "we always just sit up after a hot spot" dynamic that evolves from repetition and redundancy. LOTS of people are well trained (often through coaching) but not necessarily well versed (obtrained through experience but also through coaching and mentoring, what I experienced through clubs and experienced veterans like the great David Auker taking team to TEACH younger riders).

Get out and race, admire those that do well, but reach out to, fraternize with your peers, listen to the top riders and learn from them. Many of them have a lot to teach. Again, I think of David Auker and I am sure MANY on this list can share story after story of how he taught us, shared, and helped us grow.

RIDE ON!!!

DC
----- Original Message -----
From: tackyglueit
To: Don Joling
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

the bikes are way, way to light and snappy now.

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Don Joling wrote:

Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race with lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills, how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting, know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back as the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I remember.
Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

biketroy@comcast.net

Plus, the best rollers in the world are made right there in Portland. Ok, North Plains
Ride on.............
TT

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Beardsley"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 4:08:15 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

"nobody rides rollers anymore"

What????

have you been out to the track in the last 20 years????

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 2:05 PM, < halfwheelhill@yahoo.com > wrote:

I have noticed the same thing over the years. On thing is nobody rides rollers anymore so the bike handling skills acquired from rollers are gone. Plus people are allowed to upgrade very quick so again the experience and skill learned in those years are gone. I know when I started the guys I rode with were older veterans and I got screamed at a lot for not riding correctly. Just a thought.

Scott
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Joling < nachtusa@yahoo.com >
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Wed, 11 May 2011 13:55:44
To: < obra@list.obra.org >
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race with lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills, how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting, know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back as the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I remember.
Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

dacrizzow

rollers do add to your general balance/ skill but nothing makes up for experience. CAT 3 seems to be that middle ground of lots of speed but w/o the skills or experience of CAT 1/2's. racing in the 4/5's can get a little squirlly sometimes but in the master groups it's a bit calmer. i know some guys in cross that are pretty adamant that "bumping is racing". while i agree that getting bumped can be part of racing it shouldn't be part of one's arsonel. perhaps it's some of this same 'cross attitude working into the road races.

Rich Desmond

Large fields call for good judgement, something in short supply so far this season. 1. Too many guys diving for spots they have no business attempting (usually trying to move up two spots from 75th to 73rd) on lap 3 without getting out in the wind. 2. If you never factor in the sprint stay off the front, multiple high speed near misses with (usually the same) guys going backward. 3. You are responsible for your front wheel--nobody else, think about that before you wedge yourself between four riders in a turn--then screem if someone doesn't hold their line....just a thought

eric939@redshift.com

Currently in Northern California there are lots and lots of trainers but
few rollers.

== Eric

> True, out at the track just about everybody rides them. But I hardly ever
> see anybody at a road race warming up on them. 20-25 years ago at crits
> (at least in Northern CA) just about everybody warmed up on rollers
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steven Beardsley"
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 2:08:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land
>
> "nobody rides rollers anymore"
>
>
> What????
>
>
> have you been out to the track in the last 20 years????
>
>
> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 2:05 PM, < halfwheelhill@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
>
> I have noticed the same thing over the years. On thing is nobody rides
> rollers anymore so the bike handling skills acquired from rollers are
> gone. Plus people are allowed to upgrade very quick so again the
> experience and skill learned in those years are gone. I know when I
> started the guys I rode with were older veterans and I got screamed at a
> lot for not riding correctly. Just a thought.
>
> Scott
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Joling < nachtusa@yahoo.com >
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Wed, 11 May 2011 13:55:44
> To: < obra@list.obra.org >
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land
>
>
>
>
> Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change
> in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as
> a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's
> own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making this a great place to
> race with lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
> The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a
> lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills,
> how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in
> the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that,
> every lap on the last corner on the back straight away, people locking up
> their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
> Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting,
> know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far
> back as the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing.
> I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a
> discussion about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem
> to happen with more frequency than I remember.
> Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Brandon

Yes for sure!! Lmao!

BM

On May 11, 2011, at 3:03 PM, Michael Medina wrote:

> So wait, will shaving my legs make be a better bike handler?
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

sharkattack97219@peoplepc.com

Hammer Velo still does Grass track training once in awhile....and also
people from other teams join us...
something all teams should do for the novice and beginner racers for sure,
men and women, it has helped our ladies the past few years in a huge
way....confidence and handling skills, plus knowing how to crash when it
does happen...so you don't snap a collar bone or wrist....anyone that ever
wants to join you are welcome to do so....

see ya.
Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan H"
To: "Michael Medina" ; "OBRA list"

Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

> Back when cyclocross was a new thing in the Pacific Northwest, a few of us
> would go out to a grassy field and try everything to knock one another off
> our bikes. Bumping, grabbing, slamming the other guys shifters, pushing.
> That and the technical, slippery nature of cyclocross will save you from
> lots of falls.
> Rollers will teach you to ride in a straight line.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Medina"
> To: "OBRA list"
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 3:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land
>
>
>> So wait, will shaving my legs make be a better bike handler?
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

jon.ragsdale@comcast.net

We used to call that bump and thump when I was a junior. We'd go to a park and intentionally run into each other.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan H"
To: "Michael Medina" , "OBRA list"
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 3:12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

Back when cyclocross was a new thing in the Pacific Northwest, a few of us
would go out to a grassy field and try everything to knock one another off
our bikes. Bumping, grabbing, slamming the other guys shifters, pushing.
That and the technical, slippery nature of cyclocross will save you from
lots of falls.
Rollers will teach you to ride in a straight line.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Medina"
To: "OBRA list"
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

> So wait, will shaving my legs make be a better bike handler?
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Dan H

Back when cyclocross was a new thing in the Pacific Northwest, a few of us
would go out to a grassy field and try everything to knock one another off
our bikes. Bumping, grabbing, slamming the other guys shifters, pushing.
That and the technical, slippery nature of cyclocross will save you from
lots of falls.
Rollers will teach you to ride in a straight line.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Medina"
To: "OBRA list"
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

> So wait, will shaving my legs make be a better bike handler?
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Michael Medina

So wait, will shaving my legs make be a better bike handler?

T. Kenji Sugahara

Yup- agreed. I ride rollers in the winter too. Sure helps you ride
straight but does nothing for handling yourself in a pack (e.g.
learning to look, not overlapping etc). Most fun is getting out of
the saddle or taking stuff on and off (jacket) while on the rollers.
Though I have not achieved the feat of one legged pedaling with no
hands on rollers. I know a couple folks have.

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 2:55 PM, John Bravard wrote:
> I ride rollers at times in the winter and much prefer them to other "stationary" training. I do, however, credit nearly none of what bike handling skills I have to riding my rollers. Riding in a group of 100 does not compare to riding by myself on rollers.
>
>
>
> On May 11, 2011, at 2:05 PM, halfwheelhill@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> I have noticed the same thing over the years. On thing is nobody rides rollers anymore so the bike handling skills acquired from rollers are gone. Plus people are allowed to upgrade very quick so again the experience and skill learned in those years are gone. I know when I started the guys I rode with were older veterans and I got screamed at a lot for not riding correctly. Just a thought.
>>
>> Scott
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Don Joling
>> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Wed, 11 May 2011 13:55:44
>> To:
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land
>>
>> Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race with lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
>> The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills, how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
>> Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting, know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back as the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I remember.
>> Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone:  503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org

Brandon

Again it all comes down to shaven or unshaven legs!! Lmao

BM

On May 11, 2011, at 2:55 PM, John Bravard wrote:

> I ride rollers at times in the winter and much prefer them to other "stationary" training. I do, however, credit nearly none of what bike handling skills I have to riding my rollers. Riding in a group of 100 does not compare to riding by myself on rollers.
>
>
>
> On May 11, 2011, at 2:05 PM, halfwheelhill@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> I have noticed the same thing over the years. On thing is nobody rides rollers anymore so the bike handling skills acquired from rollers are gone. Plus people are allowed to upgrade very quick so again the experience and skill learned in those years are gone. I know when I started the guys I rode with were older veterans and I got screamed at a lot for not riding correctly. Just a thought.
>>
>> Scott
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Don Joling
>> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Wed, 11 May 2011 13:55:44
>> To:
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land
>>
>> Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race with lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
>> The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills, how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
>> Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting, know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back as the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I remember.
>> Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

John Bravard

I ride rollers at times in the winter and much prefer them to other "stationary" training. I do, however, credit nearly none of what bike handling skills I have to riding my rollers. Riding in a group of 100 does not compare to riding by myself on rollers.

On May 11, 2011, at 2:05 PM, halfwheelhill@yahoo.com wrote:

> I have noticed the same thing over the years. On thing is nobody rides rollers anymore so the bike handling skills acquired from rollers are gone. Plus people are allowed to upgrade very quick so again the experience and skill learned in those years are gone. I know when I started the guys I rode with were older veterans and I got screamed at a lot for not riding correctly. Just a thought.
>
> Scott
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Joling
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Wed, 11 May 2011 13:55:44
> To:
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land
>
> Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race with lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
> The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills, how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
> Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting, know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back as the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I remember.
> Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

douglas sproston

thou shalt not futz with thy garmin whilst in the middle of thine velocipede racings

Mike Murray

Once again have you been to the track? LOTS more than 20 regulars there. Often more than 20 in 1 of the 4 fields on one of the 3 nights per week of racing. If there only 20 regulars there might be less demand for the 40 lockers.

I have been doing this bike racing thing a long time. Lots longer than 10 years. The only difference I see is that there are a lot more racers. If the percentage of bad bike handlers is the same as it was then there are 10 times as many out there. You tend to notice sloppy riders because they are a threat. If you notice more you think they are more common but you don't notice the much bigger denominator.
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: halfwheelhill@yahoo.com
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 21:12:04
To: Steven Beardsley; ;
Reply-To: halfwheelhill@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

Ok, I am sorry all 20 people who ride track regularly ride rollers.

Scott
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Beardsley
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Wed, 11 May 2011 14:08:15
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Brandon

I am by no means a vintage peloton member but it almost appears as though this season has been a bit more aggressive / unruly then previous. This could be due to crappy weather and guys not getting in as many early season miles / riding time or another theory is the radiation from Japan is seeping into our brains from all the nuke fallout rain! Overall I think we as riders need to think before we act and take more responsibility policing ourselves up.
Brandon

On May 11, 2011, at 1:55 PM, Don Joling wrote:

> Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race with lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
> The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills, how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
> Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting, know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back as the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I remember.
> Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Brandon

So true, I bet all crashes are caused by people who had unshaven legs!!

BM

On May 11, 2011, at 2:28 PM, "Long, Steve" wrote:

> Item #1: Aren't the words "humble" and "peloton" an oxymoron?
> Item #2: Nobody wants to go to clinics for the reason of Item #1
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Don Joling
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:56 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land
>
> Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change
> in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it)
> as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on
> it's own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making this a great
> place to race with lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our
> sport.
> The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a
> lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling
> skills, how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very
> evident in the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes?
> Before that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight away,
> people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close
> to getting swept.
> Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting,
> know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far
> back as the early 90's were talking during the race about this very
> thing. I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps
> opening a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of the
> crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I remember.
> Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> This e-mail and related attachments and any response may be subject to public disclosure under state law.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

halfwheelhill@yahoo.com

I was not speaking of OBRA in general, but what I have noticed over the last 16yrs of racing.

Scott
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Long, Steve"
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Wed, 11 May 2011 14:28:05
To: Don Joling;
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

Item #1: Aren't the words "humble" and "peloton" an oxymoron?
Item #2: Nobody wants to go to clinics for the reason of Item #1

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Don Joling
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:56 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change
in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it)
as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on
it's own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making this a great
place to race with lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our
sport.
The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a
lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling
skills, how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very
evident in the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes?
Before that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight away,
people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close
to getting swept.
Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting,
know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far
back as the early 90's were talking during the race about this very
thing. I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps
opening a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of the
crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I remember.
Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

This e-mail and related attachments and any response may be subject to public disclosure under state law.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Long, Steve

Item #1: Aren't the words "humble" and "peloton" an oxymoron?
Item #2: Nobody wants to go to clinics for the reason of Item #1

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Don Joling
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:56 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change
in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it)
as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on
it's own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making this a great
place to race with lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our
sport.
The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a
lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling
skills, how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very
evident in the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes?
Before that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight away,
people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close
to getting swept.
Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting,
know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far
back as the early 90's were talking during the race about this very
thing. I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps
opening a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of the
crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I remember.
Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

This e-mail and related attachments and any response may be subject to public disclosure under state law.

Michael Medina

It's only a suggestion, I don't even race anymore and don't have the
interest in finding one.

I 'grew up' on such a course and have only been to PIR twice when I
did race for the very same reasons the original poster stated. This
was however 13-15 years ago, I'd hate to think it's gotten worse.

Michael

T. Kenji Sugahara

It's a team and rider issue not an OBRA issue.

Teams need to work with their riders more often.

There are great examples out there:

Portland Velo, Team Oregon, Ironclad and Hammer Velo among others.

For this so-called "fast" upgrading- they meet the criteria and they
get upgraded. If they don't, they don't. Criteria have not changed
much. If a junior requests an upgrade I check with the coach or
experienced rider who has ridden with them.

Riders need to stay focused - it's PIR. One of the widest, flattest
venues out there and sometimes racers get complacent and go all over
the place. I know it. I race it.

There's plenty of opportunities for beginner clinics.

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 2:05 PM, wrote:
> I have noticed the same thing over the years. On thing is nobody rides rollers anymore so the bike handling skills acquired from rollers are gone. Plus people are allowed to upgrade very quick so again the experience and skill learned in those years are gone. I know when I started the guys I rode with were older veterans and I got screamed at a lot for not riding correctly. Just a thought.
>
> Scott
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Joling
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Wed, 11 May 2011 13:55:44
> To:
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land
>
> Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race with lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
> The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills, how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
> Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting, know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back as the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I remember.
> Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone:  503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org

Candi Murray

There were 103 riders at one race at the track last year. Many others had
numbers similar.

Candi
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of halfwheelhill@yahoo.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 2:12 PM
To: Steven Beardsley; obra-bounces@list.obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

Ok, I am sorry all 20 people who ride track regularly ride rollers.

Scott
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Beardsley
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Wed, 11 May 2011 14:08:15
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1375 / Virus Database: 1500/3630 - Release Date: 05/11/11

Michael Medina

One day I will figure out this new fangled email thing.

My apologies to the individual members I've managed to email duplicates to.

Michael

Michael Medina

I think that having a "true" crit with tight 90° corners (both left
and right) weekly would do riders a world of good compared to PIR.

Michael

jon.ragsdale@comcast.net

True, out at the track just about everybody rides them. But I hardly ever see anybody at a road race warming up on them. 20-25 years ago at crits (at least in Northern CA) just about everybody warmed up on rollers
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Beardsley"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 2:08:15 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

"nobody rides rollers anymore"

What????

have you been out to the track in the last 20 years????

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 2:05 PM, < halfwheelhill@yahoo.com > wrote:

I have noticed the same thing over the years. On thing is nobody rides rollers anymore so the bike handling skills acquired from rollers are gone. Plus people are allowed to upgrade very quick so again the experience and skill learned in those years are gone. I know when I started the guys I rode with were older veterans and I got screamed at a lot for not riding correctly. Just a thought.

Scott
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Joling < nachtusa@yahoo.com >
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Wed, 11 May 2011 13:55:44
To: < obra@list.obra.org >
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race with lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills, how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting, know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back as the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I remember.
Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

tackyglueit

the bikes are way, way to light and snappy now.

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Don Joling wrote:

> Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change in
> our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a Cat
> 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA
> officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race with
> lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
> The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a lot
> of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills, how to
> work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2, 3
> field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap on the
> last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their brakes,
> taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
> Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting, know
> that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back as
> the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love
> this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion
> about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen
> with more frequency than I remember.
> Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

halfwheelhill@yahoo.com

Ok, I am sorry all 20 people who ride track regularly ride rollers.

Scott
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Beardsley
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Wed, 11 May 2011 14:08:15
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Don Joling

I'm sorry I should proof read before posting. I am aware there were no crashes in our group last night, but my sentiment remains the same.

Steven Beardsley

"nobody rides rollers anymore"

What????

have you been out to the track in the last 20 years????

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 2:05 PM, wrote:

> I have noticed the same thing over the years. On thing is nobody rides
> rollers anymore so the bike handling skills acquired from rollers are gone.
> Plus people are allowed to upgrade very quick so again the experience and
> skill learned in those years are gone. I know when I started the guys I rode
> with were older veterans and I got screamed at a lot for not riding
> correctly. Just a thought.
>
> Scott
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Joling
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Wed, 11 May 2011 13:55:44
> To:
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land
>
> Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change in
> our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a Cat
> 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA
> officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race with
> lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
> The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a lot
> of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills, how to
> work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2, 3
> field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap on the
> last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their brakes,
> taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
> Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting, know
> that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back as
> the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love
> this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion
> about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen
> with more frequency than I remember.
> Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
> _______________________________________________
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> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
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> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
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>

johnfforbes@comcast.net

Minor correction, the crashes were in the 3/4 field. The. 1,2,3's were a tad
squirrily but nothing terrible.

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-----Original message-----
From: Don Joling
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wed, May 11, 2011 20:55:44 GMT+00:00
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change in
our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a Cat
2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA
officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race with
lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a lot
of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills, how to
work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2, 3
field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap on the
last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their brakes,
taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting, know
that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back as
the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love
this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion
about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen
with more frequency than I remember.
Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

halfwheelhill@yahoo.com

I have noticed the same thing over the years. On thing is nobody rides rollers anymore so the bike handling skills acquired from rollers are gone. Plus people are allowed to upgrade very quick so again the experience and skill learned in those years are gone. I know when I started the guys I rode with were older veterans and I got screamed at a lot for not riding correctly. Just a thought.

Scott
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Joling
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Wed, 11 May 2011 13:55:44
To:
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race with lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills, how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting, know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back as the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I remember.
Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Candi Murray

There were no accidents in the 1/2/3 field last night. There were accidents
in the 3/4 field only.

Candi
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Don Joling
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:56 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Open Letter to OBRA land

Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change in
our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a Cat
2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA
officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race with
lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a lot
of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills, how to
work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2, 3
field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap on the
last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their brakes,
taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting, know
that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back as
the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love
this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion
about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen
with more frequency than I remember.
Peace, and keep the rubber side down.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Don Joling

Having come back to racing after a 10 year hiatus, I've noticed a change in our humble peloton. When I 'retired' (as Danny K. likes to call it) as a Cat 2, OBRA had just split from the former USCF and headed out on it's own. OBRA officials have done a great job in making this a great place to race with lots of venues covering all the disciplines of our sport.
The change I'm speaking of I can't quite put my finger on. Seems like a lot of the Cat 3 and better have lost some sense of bike handling skills, how to work with their team, bad attitudes etc.. It was very evident in the 1, 2, 3 field last night. What were there 3 crashes? Before that, every lap on the last corner on the back straight away, people locking up their brakes, taking bad lines, wheels getting close to getting swept.
Before you say I've perhaps lost my nerve and should take up knitting, know that myself and some of my teammates that I have raced with as far back as the early 90's were talking during the race about this very thing. I love this sport, and while I don't have the answer, perhaps opening a discussion about it might help put a dent in some of the crashes that seem to happen with more frequency than I remember.
Peace, and keep the rubber side down.