holstein71

look at curling, need i say more?

bowling??? its considered a sport.
I'd like to see a few bowlers do the run up at Alpenrose...

Irish

Cyclocross started in Belgium as a form of bike training in the rainy season, obviously they didnt have PIR or paved roads to train on so they went to the craziest places to ride. Unfortunately you cant always ride your bike; the people that do crazy bike tours to unrideable places but still ride arently entirely hikers are they, but maybe both? In this world and lifetime isnt it more important to look at the physical demands of the sport instead of asking if it is a sport? look at curling, need i say more?

T. Kenji Sugahara

Cyclocross season is fast approaching- and for us, it's a very busy
time of year.

We are always looking for help at the races- with the ever increasing
popularity of cyclocross we are are in need of help with scoring.

If you are interested in helping out, there will be trainings at the
Kruger's Farm Kermesses. We are also requesting that all teams send
representatives to be trained.

Please contact Candi if you plan on attending one of the races.

Thanks!

T. Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
503-302-4935

Evan MacKenzie

As in every type of bicycle racing, competitors are always looking for
an advantage. For those of us looking for an equipment advantage, we
will try just about anything that is legal. That includes things like
aero bars, clipless pedals, index shifters (or better yet,
STI/Ergo/etc), and yes, bar ends. If the rules don't say something is
prohibited, it's fair game. If I thought aero bars would help me in a
cross race, and they were legal, you bet I'd use them. Greg Lemond
didn't care if anybody laughed at him when he showed up with his Scott
bars at the Tour de France - he just wanted to go faster.

If we want to follow USCF (or UCI) rules on bike equipment, we'd all be
racing as USCF members. I'll bet anyone good money that if we raced
under USCF rules, the Cross Crusade would not be as big, nor as fun, as
it is. And we also wouldn't be allowed to use disc brakes, or drink beer
at the pits (oops, I didn't say that). Yeah, I suppose that if you fly
into someone's bum at ramming speed bar-ends first, you could hurt
someone. But honestly, how often do you go that fast in a cyclocross
race? You have the potential to go a lot faster in a mountain bike race,
where bar ends ARE allowed. And I have NEVER been rear-ended in a
mountain bike race, or any other race, for that matter, where bar ends
would have caused any further problems. I can certainly imagine the
jokes that would ensue as video of such an accident sweeps across the
net.

All of this has got me thinking, and my thoughts are I might put my old
LP carbon bar ends back on my mountain bike. For the record, they are a
molded one-piece design with no need for an end cap.

Let's stop worrying about this and start worrying about things that
really matter in cyclocross, like PUT YOUR NUMBER ON CORRECTLY and WHEN
WILL IT RAIN?

-Evan

David Auker

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An Alpenrose Thanks is in order!



As a 'cross spectator on Sunday, I stood near the velodrome, talking with Carl Cadonau, a member of the family that owns Alpenrose. A really nice guy, he was enjoying the swarm of riders entering the track, going this way and that, using the banking on the north end. It was quite a sight.



Perhaps a letter or two from us to the Cadonau Family, in appreciation for use of this splendid piece of property is in order. There is contact info at:

http://www.alpenrose.com/index.htm



With the track and 'cross racing, Alpenrose Dairy is something to treasure. The activities they provide are likely entirely givings of their heart...I imagine the financial pressures to give in to housing development are great! Their payment is our thanks...



Let's give it to them! Perhaps some positive mail could help offset what Mike speaks of below...



David

(btw, I hit someone wandering across the 'cross course at Creston Park a few years back, unaware of the race underway. I sustained a cracked wrib and bruised sternum.)





----- Original Message -----

From: <mike.m-@obra.org>

To: "OBRA Remailer" <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 1:36 PM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross





 I have received feedback from the Alpenrose Dairy staff about this weekend's

event. Unfortunately much of it was not positive. The major issue is that

there was lots of feedback from other users of the facility about how rude

the riders were to people near or on the course.



The scheduling problems that brought several groups of users to the

Alpenrose property simultaneously (BMX, 1/4 midgets and baseball, in

addition to the dairy staff) made it so there were lots of people on the

property. This made it so there were more interactions between riders and

people not associated with the race than is usual.



Everyone needs to keep in mind that race venues are not easy to come by.

Superb venues like Alpenrose are even more rare. The most common reason to

lose a race venue is complaints about rider behavior. Often this is due to

public urination but rude interactions are high up there too.



We all know that when we are racing we are doing something that is REALLY

IMPORTANT and everyone else should know it. It certainly seems, at least

while you are racing, that the course is obvious and that anyone who gets in

your way is at least an idiot and is definitely putting both themselves and

you in danger therefore deserving your derision and probably a few curse

words too. This impression is, of course, wrong. Especially in CCX races

people may not even realize that there is a race going on when they wander

into your path. For both their benefit and yours don't run into them, curse

them, etc. Even if you have to slow a bit, in the grand scheme of things,

it will work out for the better.



Next week we will be at a public park. The community has concerns about

having CCX races there and there will undoubtedly be some people on the

course who are used to being there on quiet Sundays. Don't muck it up for

everybody by being a jerk.



Mike Murray



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



 

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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>An Alpenrose <EM><U>Thanks</U> </EM>is in

order!</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial>As a 'cross spectator on Sunday, I stood near the

velodrome, talking with Carl Cadonau, a member of  the family that owns

Alpenrose.  A really nice guy, he was enjoying the swarm of riders entering

the track, going this way and that, using the banking on the north end.  It

was quite a sight.  </FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Perhaps a letter or two from us to the Cadonau Family, in

appreciation for use of this splendid piece of property is in order.  There

is contact info at:</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><A href="http://www.alpenrose.com/index.htm"><FONT

face=Arial>http://www.alpenrose.com/index.htm</FONT></A></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial>With the track and 'cross racing, Alpenrose Dairy is

something to treasure.  The activities they provide are likely entirely

givings of their heart...I imagine the financial pressures to give in to housing

development are great!  Their payment is our thanks...</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Let's give it to them!  Perhaps some positive

mail could help offset what Mike speaks of below... </FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial>David </FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial>(btw, I hit someone wandering across the 'cross course at

Creston Park a few years back, unaware of the race underway.  I sustained a

cracked wrib and bruised sternum.) </FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From:

<mike.m-@obra.org><BR>To: "OBRA Remailer"

<ob-@topica.com><BR>Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 1:36 PM<BR>Subject:

[OBRA Chat] Cyclocross<BR><BR><BR>> I have received feedback from the

Alpenrose Dairy staff about this weekend's<BR>> event.  Unfortunately

much of it was not positive.  The major issue is that<BR>> there was

lots of feedback from other users of the facility about how rude<BR>> the

riders were to people near or on the course.<BR>> <BR>> The scheduling

problems that brought several groups of users to the<BR>> Alpenrose property

simultaneously (BMX, 1/4 midgets and baseball, in<BR>> addition to the dairy

staff) made it so there were lots of people on the<BR>> property.  This

made it so there were more interactions between riders and<BR>> people not

associated with the race than is usual.<BR>> <BR>> Everyone needs to keep

in mind that race venues are not easy to come by.<BR>> Superb venues like

Alpenrose are even more rare.  The most common reason to<BR>> lose a

race venue is complaints about rider behavior.  Often this is due

to<BR>> public urination but rude interactions are high up there too.<BR>>

<BR>> We all know that when we are racing we are doing something that is

REALLY<BR>> IMPORTANT and everyone else should know it.  It certainly

seems, at least<BR>> while you are racing, that the course is obvious and

that anyone who gets in<BR>> your way is at least an idiot and is definitely

putting both themselves and<BR>> you in danger therefore deserving your

derision and probably a few curse<BR>> words too.  This impression is,

of course, wrong.  Especially in CCX races<BR>> people may not even

realize that there is a race going on when they wander<BR>> into your

path.  For both their benefit and yours don't run into them, curse<BR>>

them, etc.  Even if you have to slow a bit, in the grand scheme of

things,<BR>> it will work out for the better.<BR>> <BR>> Next week we

will be at a public park.  The community has concerns about<BR>> having

CCX races there and there will undoubtedly be some people on the<BR>> course

who are used to being there on quiet Sundays.  Don't muck it up for<BR>>

everybody by being a jerk.<BR>> <BR>> Mike Murray<BR>> <BR>> To

respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.<BR>> To respond to the

list manager send to ob-@teleport.com<BR>> To unsubscribe send to

obra-uns-@topica.com<BR>> <BR>>

<BR>> </FONT></DIV>





</BODY></HTML>



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mike.m-@obra.org

I have received feedback from the Alpenrose Dairy staff about this weekend's

event. Unfortunately much of it was not positive. The major issue is that

there was lots of feedback from other users of the facility about how rude

the riders were to people near or on the course.



The scheduling problems that brought several groups of users to the

Alpenrose property simultaneously (BMX, 1/4 midgets and baseball, in

addition to the dairy staff) made it so there were lots of people on the

property. This made it so there were more interactions between riders and

people not associated with the race than is usual.



Everyone needs to keep in mind that race venues are not easy to come by.

Superb venues like Alpenrose are even more rare. The most common reason to

lose a race venue is complaints about rider behavior. Often this is due to

public urination but rude interactions are high up there too.



We all know that when we are racing we are doing something that is REALLY

IMPORTANT and everyone else should know it. It certainly seems, at least

while you are racing, that the course is obvious and that anyone who gets in

your way is at least an idiot and is definitely putting both themselves and

you in danger therefore deserving your derision and probably a few curse

words too. This impression is, of course, wrong. Especially in CCX races

people may not even realize that there is a race going on when they wander

into your path. For both their benefit and yours don't run into them, curse

them, etc. Even if you have to slow a bit, in the grand scheme of things,

it will work out for the better.



Next week we will be at a public park. The community has concerns about

having CCX races there and there will undoubtedly be some people on the

course who are used to being there on quiet Sundays. Don't muck it up for

everybody by being a jerk.



Mike Murray

B Witty

Mr. Cook/ OBRA Chatters-

It is funny you bring this up because we, in conjunction with the

Seattle series, are doing something very similar to what you suggest

starting this year (although it will be restricted to a few races and to

only the Men's and Women's A fields). Here is a quick description of

what we are doing -which will all come out on the flyer and website-

which are currently under construction:



This year will be the first year of the "Grail de la Grunge Cup"

competition between Portland and Seattle. This will be a friendly

competition between the two cities to see who turns out the best 'cross

riders, with the emphasis on depth in both the men's and women's fields.

There will be 4 races (2 in Portland and 2 in Seattle) that will be

scored to see which city takes home the cup. Each race will be scored as

you would a XC running race, taking the top 5 places for each city and

adding them up. The men's and women's totals will be added up for a

city total. At the end of the season, the City with the five fastest

men and women will be awarded the Grail.



While it does not affect every team, or every category, we feel this

friendly little competition will add a little spice to the men's and

women's races and ensure the highest quality fields in each of those

races.



Cheers,

Brian Witty

Cyclocross Crusade



Cook, Chris wrote:

 A slightly random request to the cyclocross promoters:



Fancy having a team competition such as in X-Country running? Say four

riders to score - add up the riders finishing places to generate the

team

total - team with the lowest total wins the day. You can have as many

riders

as you want from your team in the race - just the four best placed

riders

score toward the team total. Could apply separately to each category.



Could be an unofficial thing such as Candi's ironman competition or

could

include small prizes at the promoters discretion.



What do think?



Cheers, Chris.

Cook, Chris

A slightly random request to the cyclocross promoters:



Fancy having a team competition such as in X-Country running? Say four

riders to score - add up the riders finishing places to generate the team

total - team with the lowest total wins the day. You can have as many riders

as you want from your team in the race - just the four best placed riders

score toward the team total. Could apply separately to each category.



Could be an unofficial thing such as Candi's ironman competition or could

include small prizes at the promoters discretion.



What do think?



Cheers, Chris.