Henderson, Charles R
I would also say that in addition to increasing your PIP, if you can
swing it, purchasing an Umbrella Policy that increases your UIM limit is
also a good idea. Most companies will require you to purchase at least
a 100k liability policy before they will let you add an Umbrella but
that increases your protection up to a million or more for generally
less than a couple of hundred bucks a year.
Mark and I work on different ends of the system but I think we can both
agree there is nothing worse than a badly injured person and not enough
insurance to cover the losses. We see it all the time and generally the
added cost of coverage would have only been a few hundred dollars. You
are essentially insuring yourself and your family against the many
uninsured and under-insured folks out there (keep in mind the law only
requires people to carry 25k per person 50k combined policy limits). So
check you policy and make sure you are comfortable with the amount of
protection you have and keep in mind that the combined limit would be
the maximum available for you and your family riding in your car.
For those of you that don't own cars, you can also purchase a non-owner
policy that will provide PIP and UM/UIM. Not every company has these
policies but they are out there.
________________________________
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Mark J. Ginsberg
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 2:14 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Insurance discussion
For those who don't know, Charles knows this stuff as well as me.
For a bicyclist involved in a bike v car collision, there are two parts;
1. who pays your bills now, and 2.if it is someone's fault other than
the cyclist how does that person or their insurance pay.
for #1, the order of who pays the cyclits bills is A. Their own auto
PIP, B. their own health ins, and then C. the PIP of the adverse driver.
so I would also encourage people to increase their car PIP coverage.
Oregon minimum is $15K, but i think it goes up to $25k soon. I
personally maxed out my coverage at $50K, and it was cheap, especially
if you look at it on a per dollar of coverage basis.
for #2, As Charles said, the adverse carrier is primary and if you have
more liability/UIM insurance than the other driver, you can pursue an
under insured claim (UIM) on your own auto policy. If adverse driver has
no insurance then you can pursue a claim on your own uninsured (UM)
claim against your own company.
does that clear it all up?
Mark J. Ginsberg
Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
Attorneys At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com
________________________________
From: "Henderson, Charles R"
To: Andrew Burns ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thu, May 19, 2011 1:14:47 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Insurance discussion
You would be covered under your PIP policy and for UM and UIM if you are
involved in a car vs. bike accident. This is why one should buy as much
UM/UIM coverage you can afford. The available benefits under UM/ UIM
generally matches your liability limit. Under Insured Motorist coverage
only covers you if the at fault driver has less insurance than you do:
e.g. If you have a 25k liability policy and were hit by a guy with a 25k
policy you would not be eligible for Under Insured benefits because your
policy does not exceed the at fault party's. If you have a 100k policy
and the guy that hits you has a 25k policy you have an additional 75k in
benefits available to you under your own policy. Your auto coverage
would not cover you if there was not a vehicle involved in the accident
and certainly not bike racing...unless you got hit by a support vehicle.
Charles Henderson
________________________________
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Andrew Burns
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 11:37 AM
To: Gregg Magnus; Mark Ginsburg; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Insurance discussion
Mark: This has been an interesting and relevant discussion on
insurance. It strikes me that another relevant issue for members of
this chat is the extent their own auto insurance coverage such as
Personal Injury Protection (PIP) benefits, Uninsured Motorist (UM) and
Underinsured Motorist Coverage (UIM) are available when a bicyclist is
struck by or forced off the road by a motorist.
Is it your understanding that coverage would be available under most
policies as the bicyclist would meet the policies' definition of a
pedestrian?
Thanks.
Andrew T. Burns
Cosgrave Vergeer Kester LLP
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Gregg Magnus
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 11:10 AM
To: Mark Ginsburg; obra@list.obra.org; ty_naugle@us.aflac.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Supplemental Insurance - the final word.
So after seeing everything posted and falsely believing that AFLAC would
indeed cover since I had spoken with my Rep initially I emailed AFLAC to
get an answer from them. I have an accident policy, the older one as
well as disability rider. After one response that would not answer my
questions at all this was there final response:
Thank you for your recent inquiry. Per your request and per your policy
limitations and exclusions section, participating in any organized
sporting event (bike racing) where you receive any type of wage,
compensation or profit benefits would not be payable however; if you are
participating in an organized sporting event where you are not receiving
any type of wage, compensation or profit we will review for possible
benefits.
If we can be of further assistance, please let us know.
Thank you for choosing Aflac.
Sincerely,
Aflac Client Services Support
J4M
I am being told that the new policy they have may be different and am
waiting for my rep to find out from Aflac. So if they don't cover me in
bicycle racing then they are losing my business and I will seek out one
of the companies that others reccomended.
Gregg
________________________________
Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 09:31:17 -0700
From: markjginsberg@yahoo.com
To: obra@list.obra.org; ty_naugle@us.aflac.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Supplemental Insurance - the final word.
Again, with all due respect to Ty, who is cc'd here.
The person selling the policy is not the person down the road who makes
the coverage decision.
so while Ty can tell you what he thinks, and honestly believes,
regardless of company, it is someone else down the line who deals with
claims and coverage later.
Take car insurance for example. Many people say their car is only for
pleasure use. then one day they driver to work and the boss asks them to
bring something to the post office, while driving to the post office,
the rearend someone.
No Coverage? Maybe. could the insurance company deny, as the use was not
part of what they were insuring? Yes. do they? Usually not. Have they
sometimes? Yes.
Mark
Mark J. Ginsberg
Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
Attorneys At Law
1216 SE Belmont St .
Portland , OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com
________________________________
From: Noel Snodgrass
To: obra@list.obra.org; Ty Naugle
Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 1:20:58 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Supplemental Insurance - the final word.
As I deal with insurance companies on a daily basis I thought I'd look
in to the whole AFLAC flack that was flying around.
Ty Naugle is an insurance broker and trainer for AFLAC, and really knows
his stuff. I send people his way all the time.
Here's what he has to say regarding their plans and how they affect
amateur bicycle racing.
"Thank you for bringing this to my attention. The problem is that the
person reading the brochure is reading the "Old" plan. The Aflac
accident plan was upgraded a little over a year ago and the new plan
will cover most of the mentioned events. There is even an accidental
death benefit specific to "Hazardous Activities". The current version of
our accident plan should cover these events. The current plan is knows
as the Accident Indemnity Advantage plan. The old plan was known as the
Personal Accident Indemnity plan.
I'm happy to discuss more or to answer any questions. Please contact me
on my cell at 503-381-3513 for more information.
Regards,
Ty Naugle
Aflac
503-383-3513 cell
ty_naugle@us.aflac.com"
Feel free to give him a call, and he'll answer all your questions!
Cheers!
--
Dr. Noel Snodgrass
Chiropractic Physician
Appointments always available online!
web: http://www.portlandchi.com/
office: (503) 213-3745
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