sbrown@stevebrowncompany.com

Would someone please go urinate in the wrong place or offer to sell some Scatto bars cheap so we could read about something else.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Roy
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:51:41
To: ;
Cc:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] GF looking looking to buy MTB

Yeah, maybe I'll go see if I can find a hetrosexual male of Filipino-Anglo ethnicity to help me find a rear tire for my bike. Afterall, I don't want to be disrepected by someone not like me.

--- On Fri, 6/17/11, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:

> From: T. Kenji Sugahara
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] GF looking looking to buy MTB
> To: joec@aracnet.com
> Cc: "Rich Roy" , "Melissa Boyd" , obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 1:58 PM
> OK. I'm calling for an end to this
> thread.  Now go out and ride your
> bike- or go ride after work.  It's just about 70.
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 1:45 PM, 
> wrote:
> > And this thread just moved into the Bullshit stage.
> >
> > Melissa was agreeing with yours and other comments
> regarding the
> > quality
> > (or lack thereof) of sales staff in LBS. I have
> met/ridden/raced with
> > Melissa for far too long to know she is anything but
> ignorant.
> >
> >>:(
> >
>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone:  503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org
>
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Rich Roy

Yeah, maybe I'll go see if I can find a hetrosexual male of Filipino-Anglo ethnicity to help me find a rear tire for my bike. Afterall, I don't want to be disrepected by someone not like me.

--- On Fri, 6/17/11, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:

> From: T. Kenji Sugahara
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] GF looking looking to buy MTB
> To: joec@aracnet.com
> Cc: "Rich Roy" , "Melissa Boyd" , obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 1:58 PM
> OK. I'm calling for an end to this
> thread.  Now go out and ride your
> bike- or go ride after work.  It's just about 70.
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 1:45 PM, 
> wrote:
> > And this thread just moved into the Bullshit stage.
> >
> > Melissa was agreeing with yours and other comments
> regarding the
> > quality
> > (or lack thereof) of sales staff in LBS. I have
> met/ridden/raced with
> > Melissa for far too long to know she is anything but
> ignorant.
> >
> >>:(
> >
>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone:  503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org
>

Rich Roy

Melissa said "I'm guessing that you've never been a woman." Contrast that with guess you aren't X (gender, ethicity, religion, sexual preference etc.)... sounds pretty ignorant to me.

--- On Fri, 6/17/11, joec@aracnet.com wrote:

> From: joec@aracnet.com
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] GF looking looking to buy MTB
> To: "Rich Roy"
> Cc: kenji@obra.org, "Melissa Boyd" , obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 1:45 PM
> And this thread just moved into the
> Bullshit stage.
>
> Melissa was agreeing with yours and other comments
> regarding the
> quality
> (or lack thereof) of sales staff in LBS. I have
> met/ridden/raced with
> Melissa for far too long to know she is anything but
> ignorant.
>
> >:(
>
> On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 13:36:53 -0700 (PDT), Rich Roy
>
> wrote:
> > Really?! I illustrate how extremely narrow minded your
> comment was and
> > somehow I am now being disrespectful? The point is
> Melissa, which was
> > apparently lost on you, is that one should not demand
> respect from
> > others if they fail to provide that basic respect in
> the first place.
> >
> > The assumption by a woman that she must have a female
> sales person fit
> > her with a bike is UTTERLY IGNORANT and says a lot
> more about the
> > people making those statements than it does about the
> alleged people
> > who have treated them disrespectully.
> >
> > Your mentality of "not a woman" is no different than
> suggesting only a
> > white person can represent a white person as an
> attorney or other
> > profession. If you are comfortable with that, then I
> feel bad for you.
> > 
> >
> > --- On  wrote:
> >
> > From: Melissa Boyd
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] GF looking looking to buy
> MTB
> > To: kenji@obra.org
> > Cc: "Rich Roy" , obra@list.obra.org
> > Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 12:50 PM
> >
> > Women are not worried about getting groped at bike
> shops, they're
> > worried about being disrespected.
> >
> > Rich's response illustrated this far better than
> anything else I could
> > have said.
> >
> > Melissa
> >
> > _Ahhh... more stereotypes. Since I am not a woman, of
> course I can't
> > possibly know how to fit a woman to a bicycle, and of
> course I'm going
> > to have illicit thoughts despite the fact that I have
> been happliy
> > married for years. I mean, I'm a man afterall right? _
>
> > _ _
> > _WOW! And we think outdoorsmen (e.g. hunters etc.,)
> are backwards...
> > Simply an amazing illustration of hypocrisy._
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, T. Kenji
> Sugahara  wrote:
> >  Here's one thing that really cracks me up. All
> the responses have
> > been by guys- except for Melissa whose message was
> pretty succinct.
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Rich Roy 
> wrote:
> >> Good point. I guess what I would like folks to
> understand is the
> > bicycle community, in particular the racing community,
> is way too
> > small for us to adopt stereotypes about our fellow
> enthusiasts based
> > upon their gender. I am certain the vast majority of
> male cyclists, as
> > Eric denoted, are eager to help female cyclists for no
> other reason
> > than to encourage another to participate in a great
> sport. That
> > includes the folks that work at bike shops of which I
> am aware.
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Kenji Sugahara
> > Executive Director
> > Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> > Phone: 503-278-5550
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> >
> > Unsubscribe:
>
>

T. Kenji Sugahara

OK. I'm calling for an end to this thread. Now go out and ride your
bike- or go ride after work. It's just about 70.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 1:45 PM, wrote:
> And this thread just moved into the Bullshit stage.
>
> Melissa was agreeing with yours and other comments regarding the
> quality
> (or lack thereof) of sales staff in LBS. I have met/ridden/raced with
> Melissa for far too long to know she is anything but ignorant.
>
>>:(
>

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone:  503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org

joec@aracnet.com

And this thread just moved into the Bullshit stage.

Melissa was agreeing with yours and other comments regarding the
quality
(or lack thereof) of sales staff in LBS. I have met/ridden/raced with
Melissa for far too long to know she is anything but ignorant.

>:(

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 13:36:53 -0700 (PDT), Rich Roy
wrote:
> Really?! I illustrate how extremely narrow minded your comment was and
> somehow I am now being disrespectful? The point is Melissa, which was
> apparently lost on you, is that one should not demand respect from
> others if they fail to provide that basic respect in the first place.
>
> The assumption by a woman that she must have a female sales person fit
> her with a bike is UTTERLY IGNORANT and says a lot more about the
> people making those statements than it does about the alleged people
> who have treated them disrespectully.
>
> Your mentality of "not a woman" is no different than suggesting only a
> white person can represent a white person as an attorney or other
> profession. If you are comfortable with that, then I feel bad for you.
>
>
> --- On wrote:
>
> From: Melissa Boyd
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] GF looking looking to buy MTB
> To: kenji@obra.org
> Cc: "Rich Roy" , obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 12:50 PM
>
> Women are not worried about getting groped at bike shops, they're
> worried about being disrespected.
>
> Rich's response illustrated this far better than anything else I could
> have said.
>
> Melissa
>
> _Ahhh... more stereotypes. Since I am not a woman, of course I can't
> possibly know how to fit a woman to a bicycle, and of course I'm going
> to have illicit thoughts despite the fact that I have been happliy
> married for years. I mean, I'm a man afterall right? _
> _ _
> _WOW! And we think outdoorsmen (e.g. hunters etc.,) are backwards...
> Simply an amazing illustration of hypocrisy._
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:
> Here's one thing that really cracks me up. All the responses have
> been by guys- except for Melissa whose message was pretty succinct.
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Rich Roy wrote:
>> Good point. I guess what I would like folks to understand is the
> bicycle community, in particular the racing community, is way too
> small for us to adopt stereotypes about our fellow enthusiasts based
> upon their gender. I am certain the vast majority of male cyclists, as
> Eric denoted, are eager to help female cyclists for no other reason
> than to encourage another to participate in a great sport. That
> includes the folks that work at bike shops of which I am aware.
>>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone: 503-278-5550
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
>
> Unsubscribe:

Mike Richardson

I read it precisely as Melissa did. If my wife or daughter preferred a woman salesperson for ANY reason I'd try to support her need. YOU brought up racism and sexism and 'illicit thoughts' - no part of any discussion until you threw them out I end up knowing too much about your bias. I feel sorry for you, actually.

Mike (my real name and gender)

On Jun 17, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Rich Roy wrote:

> Really?! I illustrate how extremely narrow minded your comment was and somehow I am now being disrespectful? The point is Melissa, which was apparently lost on you, is that one should not demand respect from others if they fail to provide that basic respect in the first place.
>
> The assumption by a woman that she must have a female sales person fit her with a bike is UTTERLY IGNORANT and says a lot more about the people making those statements than it does about the alleged people who have treated them disrespectully.
>
> Your mentality of "not a woman" is no different than suggesting only a white person can represent a white person as an attorney or other profession. If you are comfortable with that, then I feel bad for you.
>
> --- On Fri, 6/17/11, Melissa Boyd wrote:
>
> From: Melissa Boyd
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] GF looking looking to buy MTB
> To: kenji@obra.org
> Cc: "Rich Roy" , obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 12:50 PM
>
> Women are not worried about getting groped at bike shops, they're worried about being disrespected.
>
> Rich's response illustrated this far better than anything else I could have said.
>
> Melissa
>
>
>
> Ahhh... more stereotypes. Since I am not a woman, of course I can't possibly know how to fit a woman to a bicycle, and of course I'm going to have illicit thoughts despite the fact that I have been happliy married for years. I mean, I'm a man afterall right?
>
> WOW! And we think outdoorsmen (e.g. hunters etc.,) are backwards... Simply an amazing illustration of hypocrisy.
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:
> Here's one thing that really cracks me up. All the responses have
> been by guys- except for Melissa whose message was pretty succinct.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Rich Roy wrote:
> > Good point. I guess what I would like folks to understand is the bicycle community, in particular the racing community, is way too small for us to adopt stereotypes about our fellow enthusiasts based upon their gender. I am certain the vast majority of male cyclists, as Eric denoted, are eager to help female cyclists for no other reason than to encourage another to participate in a great sport. That includes the folks that work at bike shops of which I am aware.
> >
>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone: 503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

joec@aracnet.com

If you say so Roweena... :^)

~Sorry Rick. Couldnt resist~

Joe

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 12:41:42 -0700, Rick Johnson
wrote:
>> All the responses have been by guys-
>
> Or so one could be led to believe, but an email name is one of the
> easiest to fake ever. And women have been writing under assumed names
> - often misleadingly masculine ones - for hundreds of years.
> ;-)
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend Oregon
>
> "Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me"
>
>
> On 6/17/2011 12:03 PM, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:
>> Here's one thing that really cracks me up. All the responses have
>> been by guys- except for Melissa whose message was pretty succinct.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Rich Roy wrote:
>>> Good point. I guess what I would like folks to understand is the bicycle community, in particular the racing community, is way too small for us to adopt stereotypes about our fellow enthusiasts based upon their gender. I am certain the vast majority of male cyclists, as Eric denoted, are eager to help female cyclists for no other reason than to encourage another to participate in a great sport. That includes the folks that work at bike shops of which I am aware.
>>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Rich Roy

Really?!  I illustrate how extremely narrow minded your comment was and somehow I am now being disrespectful?  The point is Melissa, which was apparently lost on you, is that one should not demand respect from others if they fail to provide that basic respect in the first place.
 
The assumption by a woman that she must have a female sales person fit her with a bike is UTTERLY IGNORANT and says a lot more about the people making those statements than it does about the alleged people who have treated them disrespectully.
 
Your mentality of "not a woman" is no different than suggesting only a white person can represent a white person as an attorney or other profession.  If you are comfortable with that, then I feel bad for you.   

--- On Fri, 6/17/11, Melissa Boyd wrote:

From: Melissa Boyd
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] GF looking looking to buy MTB
To: kenji@obra.org
Cc: "Rich Roy" , obra@list.obra.org
Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 12:50 PM

Women are not worried about getting groped at bike shops, they're worried about being disrespected.

Rich's response illustrated this far better than anything else I could have said.

Melissa

Ahhh... more stereotypes.  Since I am not a woman, of course I can't possibly know how to fit a woman to a bicycle, and of course I'm going to have illicit thoughts despite the fact that I have been happliy married for years.  I mean, I'm a man afterall right? 
 
WOW!  And we think outdoorsmen (e.g. hunters etc.,) are backwards...  Simply an amazing illustration of hypocrisy.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:

Here's one thing that really cracks me up.  All the responses have
been by guys- except for Melissa whose message was pretty succinct.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Rich Roy wrote:
> Good point.  I guess what I would like folks to understand is the bicycle community, in particular the racing community, is way too small for us to adopt stereotypes about our fellow enthusiasts based upon their gender.  I am certain the vast majority of male cyclists, as Eric denoted, are eager to help female cyclists for no other reason than to encourage another to participate in a great sport.  That includes the folks that work at bike shops of which I am aware.
>

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone:  503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Rich Roy

Indeed... succinctly sexist.

--- On Fri, 6/17/11, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:

> From: T. Kenji Sugahara
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] GF looking looking to buy MTB
> To: "Rich Roy"
> Cc: eric939@redshift.com, obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 12:03 PM
> Here's one thing that really cracks
> me up.  All the responses have
> been by guys- except for Melissa whose message was pretty
> succinct.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Rich Roy
> wrote:
> > Good point.  I guess what I would like folks to
> understand is the bicycle community, in particular the
> racing community, is way too small for us to adopt
> stereotypes about our fellow enthusiasts based upon their
> gender.  I am certain the vast majority of male cyclists,
> as Eric denoted, are eager to help female cyclists for no
> other reason than to encourage another to participate in a
> great sport.  That includes the folks that work at bike
> shops of which I am aware.
> >
>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone:  503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org
>

Melissa Boyd

Women are not worried about getting groped at bike shops, they're worried
about being disrespected.

Rich's response illustrated this far better than anything else I could have
said.

Melissa

*Ahhh... more stereotypes. Since I am not a woman, of course I can't
possibly know how to fit a woman to a bicycle, and of course I'm going to
have illicit thoughts despite the fact that I have been happliy married for
years. I mean, I'm a man afterall right? *
* *
*WOW! And we think outdoorsmen (e.g. hunters etc.,) are backwards...
Simply an amazing illustration of hypocrisy.*

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 12:03 PM, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:

> Here's one thing that really cracks me up. All the responses have
> been by guys- except for Melissa whose message was pretty succinct.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Rich Roy wrote:
> > Good point. I guess what I would like folks to understand is the bicycle
> community, in particular the racing community, is way too small for us to
> adopt stereotypes about our fellow enthusiasts based upon their gender. I
> am certain the vast majority of male cyclists, as Eric denoted, are eager to
> help female cyclists for no other reason than to encourage another to
> participate in a great sport. That includes the folks that work at bike
> shops of which I am aware.
> >
>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone: 503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Rick Johnson

> All the responses have been by guys-

Or so one could be led to believe, but an email name is one of the
easiest to fake ever. And women have been writing under assumed names -
often misleadingly masculine ones - for hundreds of years.
;-)

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me"

On 6/17/2011 12:03 PM, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:
> Here's one thing that really cracks me up. All the responses have
> been by guys- except for Melissa whose message was pretty succinct.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Rich Roy wrote:
>> Good point. I guess what I would like folks to understand is the bicycle community, in particular the racing community, is way too small for us to adopt stereotypes about our fellow enthusiasts based upon their gender. I am certain the vast majority of male cyclists, as Eric denoted, are eager to help female cyclists for no other reason than to encourage another to participate in a great sport. That includes the folks that work at bike shops of which I am aware.
>>
>

Ben Fischler

You're not the only one cracking up.

The only consolation is that some great local shops and folks were offered up and hopefully a great fit will be found.

AnimationMentor.com
[ ben.fischler@gmail.com ]

On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:03 PM, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:

> Here's one thing that really cracks me up. All the responses have
> been by guys- except for Melissa whose message was pretty succinct.

T. Kenji Sugahara

Here's one thing that really cracks me up. All the responses have
been by guys- except for Melissa whose message was pretty succinct.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Rich Roy wrote:
> Good point.  I guess what I would like folks to understand is the bicycle community, in particular the racing community, is way too small for us to adopt stereotypes about our fellow enthusiasts based upon their gender.  I am certain the vast majority of male cyclists, as Eric denoted, are eager to help female cyclists for no other reason than to encourage another to participate in a great sport.  That includes the folks that work at bike shops of which I am aware.
>

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone:  503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org

Rich Roy

Good point. I guess what I would like folks to understand is the bicycle community, in particular the racing community, is way too small for us to adopt stereotypes about our fellow enthusiasts based upon their gender. I am certain the vast majority of male cyclists, as Eric denoted, are eager to help female cyclists for no other reason than to encourage another to participate in a great sport. That includes the folks that work at bike shops of which I am aware.

--- On Fri, 6/17/11, eric939@redshift.com wrote:

> From: eric939@redshift.com
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] GF looking looking to buy MTB
> To: "Rich Roy"
> Cc: "Melissa Boyd" , obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 7:51 AM
>
> This discussion brings up some other possible
> issues...  Since this is a
> racing list, let's get into racing behavior.
>
> During my time in racing, I've noticed that the vast
> majority of holders
> at time trials, sprints, and other races have been
> male.  I've also
> noticed that few Cat 1, Cat 2, or Cat 3 women racers seem
> to have any
> problem with this, at least not openly.  And, I've
> noticed that
> experienced holders take care to hold the bicycle, not the
> rider (there
> are exceptions for those in relationships).
>
> However, I've noticed that a few Cat 4 women will turn down
> being held at
> time trials.  Cat 4 riders, of course, are the least
> experienced riders.
>
> Comments?
>
> == Eric
>
> > Ahhh... more stereotypes.  Since I am not a woman, of
> course I can't
> > possibly know how to fit a woman to a bicycle, and of
> course I'm going to
> > have illicit thoughts despite the fact that I have
> been happliy married
> > for years.  I mean, I'm a man afterall right? 
> >  
> > WOW!  And we think outdoorsmen (e.g. hunters etc.,)
> are backwards... 
> > Simply an amazing illustration of hypocrisy.
> >  
> >  
> > --- On Thu, 6/16/11, Melissa Boyd
> wrote:
> >
> > From: Melissa Boyd
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] GF looking looking to buy
> MTB
> > To: "Rich Roy"
> > Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> > Date: Thursday, June 16, 2011, 5:48 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Rich, I'm guessing that you've never been a woman.
> Just guessing.
> >
> > - Melissa
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Rich Roy
> wrote:
> >
> > I guess my question would be what makes Forest's
> girlfriend think because
> > of one's gender they will be more or less qualified to
> fit one to a
> > bicycle?  Wouldn't a better question be, where can I
> get fitted
> > professionally for a bike?
> >
> > Perhaps this "sensitivity" results in a stereotypical
> assumption that
> > bicycle racing has a "good old boy" issue when it
> appears in reality it
> > does not?
> >
> > Since I am a minority, should I seek out only bicycle
> shops that employee
> > minorites that match my ethnicity?
> >
> > What would that make me if I did?
> >
> >> >> On 6/16/2011 9:36 AM, Forest Wilson
> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> My girlfriend wants to buy and be
> fitted for a
> >> mountain bike. She also wants to work with female
> sales
> >> staff, if at all possible. We are in Eugene, but
> would be
> >> happy to go to PDX, Bend, ect., if neccesary to
> find a shop
> >> she is comfortable with.     
> >>    Does anyone have any shops that might fit
> >> her bill? I would also take suggestions for
> non-threatening
> >> men with experience fitting women too!
> >> >>> 
> >> >>> Forest
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
>

Greg Phillips

Sunnyside Sports in Bend. In my experience over many years, they treat
everyone like family and they know what they're doing. There's a reason
they have staff members who have been there as long as many of them have.
They helped my wife get a great bike fit and she's subsequently more than
doubled her mileage on both road and mountain bikes. I still go to them
even though I no longer live in Oregon fulltime. Joan, Barb, Muffy Roy, or
Susan could help you out..though they do have some pretty good guys there,
too.

Greg Phillips

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Gary Malcolm
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 8:22 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] GF looking looking to buy MTB

We are also shopping for a mountain bike for my wife... and I have to say
it's a bit jaw dropping how little her concerns for her fit are taken into
account. Salesmen will talk to me instead of to her when she asks a
question and it's her damn bike we're buying! We've been to a handful of
Eugene shops and every concern of hers has been impatiently dismissed or
glossed over. We still need a mountain bike and we're now thinking of buying
online.

Bike shops would do well to have more women on the sales floor or at the
very least someone who gives a damn.

Thanks,

Gary Malcolm

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Rich Roy
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 7:25 AM
To: Melissa Boyd
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] GF looking looking to buy MTB

Ahhh... more stereotypes. Since I am not a woman, of course I can't
possibly know how to fit a woman to a bicycle, and of course I'm going to
have illicit thoughts despite the fact that I have been happliy married for
years. I mean, I'm a man afterall right?

WOW! And we think outdoorsmen (e.g. hunters etc.,) are backwards... Simply
an amazing illustration of hypocrisy.

--- On Thu, 6/16/11, Melissa Boyd wrote:

From: Melissa Boyd
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] GF looking looking to buy MTB
To: "Rich Roy"
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Thursday, June 16, 2011, 5:48 PM

Rich, I'm guessing that you've never been a woman. Just guessing.

- Melissa

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Rich Roy >
wrote:

I guess my question would be what makes Forest's girlfriend think because of
one's gender they will be more or less qualified to fit one to a bicycle?
Wouldn't a better question be, where can I get fitted professionally for a
bike?

Perhaps this "sensitivity" results in a stereotypical assumption that
bicycle racing has a "good old boy" issue when it appears in reality it does
not?

Since I am a minority, should I seek out only bicycle shops that employee
minorites that match my ethnicity?

What would that make me if I did?

> >> On 6/16/2011 9:36 AM, Forest Wilson wrote:
> >>>
> >>> My girlfriend wants to buy and be fitted for a
> mountain bike. She also wants to work with female sales
> staff, if at all possible. We are in Eugene, but would be
> happy to go to PDX, Bend, ect., if neccesary to find a shop
> she is comfortable with.
> Does anyone have any shops that might fit
> her bill? I would also take suggestions for non-threatening
> men with experience fitting women too!
> >>>
> >>> Forest

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Gary Malcolm

We are also shopping for a mountain bike for my wife... and I have to
say it's a bit jaw dropping how little her concerns for her fit are
taken into account. Salesmen will talk to me instead of to her when she
asks a question and it's her damn bike we're buying! We've been to a
handful of Eugene shops and every concern of hers has been impatiently
dismissed or glossed over. We still need a mountain bike and we're now
thinking of buying online.

Bike shops would do well to have more women on the sales floor or at the
very least someone who gives a damn.

Thanks,

Gary Malcolm

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Rich Roy
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 7:25 AM
To: Melissa Boyd
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] GF looking looking to buy MTB

Ahhh... more stereotypes. Since I am not a woman, of course I can't
possibly know how to fit a woman to a bicycle, and of course I'm going
to have illicit thoughts despite the fact that I have been happliy
married for years. I mean, I'm a man afterall right?

WOW! And we think outdoorsmen (e.g. hunters etc.,) are backwards...
Simply an amazing illustration of hypocrisy.


--- On Thu, 6/16/11, Melissa Boyd wrote:

From: Melissa Boyd
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] GF looking looking to buy MTB
To: "Rich Roy"
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Thursday, June 16, 2011, 5:48 PM

Rich, I'm guessing that you've never been a woman. Just
guessing.

- Melissa





On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Rich Roy >
wrote:

I guess my question would be what makes Forest's
girlfriend think because of one's gender they will be more or less
qualified to fit one to a bicycle? Wouldn't a better question be, where
can I get fitted professionally for a bike?

Perhaps this "sensitivity" results in a stereotypical
assumption that bicycle racing has a "good old boy" issue when it
appears in reality it does not?

Since I am a minority, should I seek out only bicycle
shops that employee minorites that match my ethnicity?

What would that make me if I did?

> >> On 6/16/2011 9:36 AM, Forest Wilson wrote:
> >>>
> >>> My girlfriend wants to buy and be fitted for a
> mountain bike. She also wants to work with female
sales
> staff, if at all possible. We are in Eugene, but would
be
> happy to go to PDX, Bend, ect., if neccesary to find a
shop
> she is comfortable with.
> Does anyone have any shops that might fit
> her bill? I would also take suggestions for
non-threatening
> men with experience fitting women too!
> >>>
> >>> Forest

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

********************************
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
********************************

This message (including any attachments) is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and
may contain information that is non-public, proprietary,
privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under
applicable law or may constitute as attorney work product.
If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
communication in error, notify us immediately by telephone at (541)343-5641 and
(i) destroy this message if a facsimile or (ii) delete this message
immediately if this is an electronic communication.

Thank you.
********************************

Rich Roy

Ahhh... more stereotypes.  Since I am not a woman, of course I can't possibly know how to fit a woman to a bicycle, and of course I'm going to have illicit thoughts despite the fact that I have been happliy married for years.  I mean, I'm a man afterall right? 
 
WOW!  And we think outdoorsmen (e.g. hunters etc.,) are backwards...  Simply an amazing illustration of hypocrisy.
 
 
--- On Thu, 6/16/11, Melissa Boyd wrote:

From: Melissa Boyd
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] GF looking looking to buy MTB
To: "Rich Roy"
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Thursday, June 16, 2011, 5:48 PM

Rich, I'm guessing that you've never been a woman. Just guessing.

- Melissa

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Rich Roy wrote:

I guess my question would be what makes Forest's girlfriend think because of one's gender they will be more or less qualified to fit one to a bicycle?  Wouldn't a better question be, where can I get fitted professionally for a bike?

Perhaps this "sensitivity" results in a stereotypical assumption that bicycle racing has a "good old boy" issue when it appears in reality it does not?

Since I am a minority, should I seek out only bicycle shops that employee minorites that match my ethnicity?

What would that make me if I did?

> >> On 6/16/2011 9:36 AM, Forest Wilson wrote:
> >>>
> >>> My girlfriend wants to buy and be fitted for a
> mountain bike. She also wants to work with female sales
> staff, if at all possible. We are in Eugene, but would be
> happy to go to PDX, Bend, ect., if neccesary to find a shop
> she is comfortable with.     
>    Does anyone have any shops that might fit
> her bill? I would also take suggestions for non-threatening
> men with experience fitting women too!
> >>> 
> >>> Forest

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obra@list.obra.org
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Brandon

I will only buy a bike from a person who has eaten bowled great horned owls, killed a bear with their bare hands and has jumped 10 helicopters blades spinning in DH skis while being chased by an avalanche. Needless to say this narrows things down a bit.

BM

On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:06 AM, jake tong wrote:

> I listen to SLAYER, so I only wanted someone else that listens to SLAYER to sell me my bike. I got my mountain bike @ Bike Gallery in Sellwood, from a dude name Jordan I believe.
>
> --- On Fri, 6/17/11, Ben Fischler wrote:
>
> From: Ben Fischler
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] GF looking looking to buy MTB
> To: "OBRA list list"
> Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 1:11 AM
>
> On Jun 16, 2011, at 4:48 PM, Rich Roy wrote:
>
> > I guess my question would be what makes Forest's girlfriend think because of one's gender they will be more or less qualified to fit one to a bicycle?
>
> Maybe personal experience?
>
> > Wouldn't a better question be, where can I get fitted professionally for a bike?
>
> Key word there is "professional". If your customer doesn't feel like they have your respect I would submit that you're not much of a professional.
>
>
>
>
>
> AnimationMentor.com
> [ ben.fischler@gmail.com ]
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

jake tong

I listen to SLAYER, so I only wanted someone else that listens to SLAYER to sell me my bike. I got my mountain bike @ Bike Gallery in Sellwood, from a dude name Jordan I believe.
--- On Fri, 6/17/11, Ben Fischler wrote:

From: Ben Fischler
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] GF looking looking to buy MTB
To: "OBRA list list"
Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 1:11 AM

On Jun 16, 2011, at 4:48 PM, Rich Roy wrote:

> I guess my question would be what makes Forest's girlfriend think because of one's gender they will be more or less qualified to fit one to a bicycle?

Maybe personal experience?

>  Wouldn't a better question be, where can I get fitted professionally for a bike?

Key word there is "professional".  If your customer doesn't feel like they have your respect I would submit that you're not much of a professional.

AnimationMentor.com
[ ben.fischler@gmail.com ]

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OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Ben Fischler

On Jun 16, 2011, at 4:48 PM, Rich Roy wrote:

> I guess my question would be what makes Forest's girlfriend think because of one's gender they will be more or less qualified to fit one to a bicycle?

Maybe personal experience?

> Wouldn't a better question be, where can I get fitted professionally for a bike?

Key word there is "professional". If your customer doesn't feel like they have your respect I would submit that you're not much of a professional.

AnimationMentor.com
[ ben.fischler@gmail.com ]

dacrizzow

i don't know if gender makes a difference but i took my wife to buy her 1st road bike and it was a guy showing her around. totally ignored her concerns about hands not being able to fully grip brake levers (i ignored it as well) for the most part just tried to move her along. she never really felt comfortable so she went back to get fitted (by a woman) and came back with some very extreme changes. this is one of our more reputable shops. that was the 3rd bike our house had bought from them. i went back to have a single ring set-up on my cx bike and by the time i got home there was a message that my bike was ready. when i picked it up the next day all they had done was disconnect the front derailure and wrap it around the h-bars. WTF?! never went back. so i'm not sure if gender makes a diff. but there were lots of red flags. once she felt hurried we should've moved on.

Melissa Boyd

Rich, I'm guessing that you've never been a woman. Just guessing.

- Melissa

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Rich Roy wrote:

> I guess my question would be what makes Forest's girlfriend think because
> of one's gender they will be more or less qualified to fit one to a bicycle?
> Wouldn't a better question be, where can I get fitted professionally for a
> bike?
>
> Perhaps this "sensitivity" results in a stereotypical assumption that
> bicycle racing has a "good old boy" issue when it appears in reality it does
> not?
>
> Since I am a minority, should I seek out only bicycle shops that employee
> minorites that match my ethnicity?
>
> What would that make me if I did?
>
> > >> On 6/16/2011 9:36 AM, Forest Wilson wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> My girlfriend wants to buy and be fitted for a
> > mountain bike. She also wants to work with female sales
> > staff, if at all possible. We are in Eugene, but would be
> > happy to go to PDX, Bend, ect., if neccesary to find a shop
> > she is comfortable with.
> > Does anyone have any shops that might fit
> > her bill? I would also take suggestions for non-threatening
> > men with experience fitting women too!
> > >>>
> > >>> Forest
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Rich Roy

I guess my question would be what makes Forest's girlfriend think because of one's gender they will be more or less qualified to fit one to a bicycle? Wouldn't a better question be, where can I get fitted professionally for a bike?

Perhaps this "sensitivity" results in a stereotypical assumption that bicycle racing has a "good old boy" issue when it appears in reality it does not?

Since I am a minority, should I seek out only bicycle shops that employee minorites that match my ethnicity?

What would that make me if I did?

> >> On 6/16/2011 9:36 AM, Forest Wilson wrote:
> >>>
> >>> My girlfriend wants to buy and be fitted for a
> mountain bike. She also wants to work with female sales
> staff, if at all possible. We are in Eugene, but would be
> happy to go to PDX, Bend, ect., if neccesary to find a shop
> she is comfortable with.     
>    Does anyone have any shops that might fit
> her bill? I would also take suggestions for non-threatening
> men with experience fitting women too!
> >>> 
> >>> Forest