johnfforbes@comcast.net

Dan, you needn't incite him simply due to his oversight in confusing site
and sight. It is, after all, a slight mistake.

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-----Original message-----
From: Dan H
To: Jon Nigbor
Cc: "obra@list.obra.org"
Sent: Mon, Aug 22, 2011 16:10:47 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again

You said there were witnesses who saw him so obviously he was "sighted".

On Aug 21, 2011, at 11:26 PM, "Jon Nigbor"
wrote:

> I was broadsided 2/28/08 on a sunny morning simply because the driver
failed to look right and see me. The driver admitted guilt, there were
several witnesses who confirmed his guilt, yet he was not sighted. I
couldn't walk for 10 days, broke an arm, fractured my back, etc.. I even
called the cop afterwards and asked why the driver wasn't sighted and his
answer was clearly prejudiced against me as a cyclist.
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Gregg Magnus"
> Date: Sun, Aug 21, 2011 9:04 am
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again
> To: , "Dad"
> Cc:
>
>
>
> Brian I don't know you but I do know from your ranting email that you have
no clue how law enforcement, courts and the entire legal system works, so I
reccomend that in the future before you make your self look like a jerk you
educate yourself first.
>
> For those of you that don't know me my name is Gregg Magnus. I have grown
up in the OBRA community since I was a child and love this sport and
apparently I just found out I am a "dumb" Beaverton Police Officer.
>
> I was working yesterday when Clark was hit, I wasn't at the scene but I
have been following this closely with the officers who are handling it.
>
> Brian here is a little education for you, so hopefully you can learn
something about how these processes work.
>
> First at crashes or other calls where there are signifiant injuries many
times no charges are filed right away, a thorough investigation must be
conducted first to determine if a crime has been committed and what level of
crime to charge.
> Second, flight risk is evaluated can a complete investigation be done
before an arrest? Worked out with a experts in the area of question,
District Attorneys, etc. Do we have to worry about threat to the victim or
others?
>
> I don't know if criminal charges or a traffic citation will be filed on
the driver at this point. I can assure you that this is being throughly
investigated and because its a car vs cyclists its not being overlooked.
>
> I guess I will close with this, Brian or anyone else if you have a concern
about how things are handled in Beaverton please look me up I can certainly
look into anything, as far as any general law enforcement questions I am
more than willing to help out and try to get the answers or get you
connected with who should have the answers.
>
> Gregg Magnus
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 22:12:32 -0700
> From: buskirk199@gmail.com
> To: ronm@hevanet.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again
>
> This is ridicules!!! she was not charged!!! wow cops are dumb. If a
motorist has sun in their face and hits another car then they will get
charged but, if the sun is in their eyes and hits and cyclist they don't get
charged.. wow this is really messed up! We need to take a stand and let
people know we count too and they should look out for cyclist.
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Ron Magnus wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> Another car vs rider crash this morning. Some of you know Clark, keep hi
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Dan H

You said there were witnesses who saw him so obviously he was "sighted".

On Aug 21, 2011, at 11:26 PM, "Jon Nigbor" wrote:

> I was broadsided 2/28/08 on a sunny morning simply because the driver failed to look right and see me. The driver admitted guilt, there were several witnesses who confirmed his guilt, yet he was not sighted. I couldn't walk for 10 days, broke an arm, fractured my back, etc.. I even called the cop afterwards and asked why the driver wasn't sighted and his answer was clearly prejudiced against me as a cyclist.
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Gregg Magnus"
> Date: Sun, Aug 21, 2011 9:04 am
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again
> To: , "Dad"
> Cc:
>
>
>
> Brian I don't know you but I do know from your ranting email that you have no clue how law enforcement, courts and the entire legal system works, so I reccomend that in the future before you make your self look like a jerk you educate yourself first.
>
> For those of you that don't know me my name is Gregg Magnus. I have grown up in the OBRA community since I was a child and love this sport and apparently I just found out I am a "dumb" Beaverton Police Officer.
>
> I was working yesterday when Clark was hit, I wasn't at the scene but I have been following this closely with the officers who are handling it.
>
> Brian here is a little education for you, so hopefully you can learn something about how these processes work.
>
> First at crashes or other calls where there are signifiant injuries many times no charges are filed right away, a thorough investigation must be conducted first to determine if a crime has been committed and what level of crime to charge.
> Second, flight risk is evaluated can a complete investigation be done before an arrest? Worked out with a experts in the area of question, District Attorneys, etc. Do we have to worry about threat to the victim or others?
>
> I don't know if criminal charges or a traffic citation will be filed on the driver at this point. I can assure you that this is being throughly investigated and because its a car vs cyclists its not being overlooked.
>
> I guess I will close with this, Brian or anyone else if you have a concern about how things are handled in Beaverton please look me up I can certainly look into anything, as far as any general law enforcement questions I am more than willing to help out and try to get the answers or get you connected with who should have the answers.
>
> Gregg Magnus
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 22:12:32 -0700
> From: buskirk199@gmail.com
> To: ronm@hevanet.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again
>
> This is ridicules!!! she was not charged!!! wow cops are dumb. If a motorist has sun in their face and hits another car then they will get charged but, if the sun is in their eyes and hits and cyclist they don't get charged.. wow this is really messed up! We need to take a stand and let people know we count too and they should look out for cyclist.
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Ron Magnus wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> Another car vs rider crash this morning. Some of you know Clark, keep hi
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

=?utf-8?B?Sm9uIE5pZ2Jvcg==?=

I was broadsided 2/28/08 on a sunny morning simply because the driver failed to look right and see me. The driver admitted guilt, there were several witnesses who confirmed his guilt, yet he was not sighted. I couldn't walk for 10 days, broke an arm, fractured my back, etc.. I even called the cop afterwards and asked why the driver wasn't sighted and his answer was clearly prejudiced against me as a cyclist.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

----- Reply message -----
From: "Gregg Magnus"
Date: Sun, Aug 21, 2011 9:04 am
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again
To: , "Dad"
Cc:

Brian I don't know you but I do know from your ranting email that you have no clue how law enforcement, courts and the entire legal system works, so I reccomend that in the future before you make your self look like a jerk you educate yourself first.

For those of you that don't know me my name is Gregg Magnus. I have grown up in the OBRA community since I was a child and love this sport and apparently I just found out I am a "dumb" Beaverton Police Officer.

I was working yesterday when Clark was hit, I wasn't at the scene but I have been following this closely with the officers who are handling it.

Brian here is a little education for you, so hopefully you can learn something about how these processes work.

First at crashes or other calls where there are signifiant injuries many times no charges are filed right away, a thorough investigation must be conducted first to determine if a crime has been committed and what level of crime to charge.
Second, flight risk is evaluated can a complete investigation be done before an arrest? Worked out with a experts in the area of question, District Attorneys, etc. Do we have to worry about threat to the victim or others?

I don't know if criminal charges or a traffic citation will be filed on the driver at this point. I can assure you that this is being throughly investigated and because its a car vs cyclists its not being overlooked.

I guess I will close with this, Brian or anyone else if you have a concern about how things are handled in Beaverton please look me up I can certainly look into anything, as far as any general law enforcement questions I am more than willing to help out and try to get the answers or get you connected with who should have the answers.

Gregg Magnus

Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 22:12:32 -0700
From: buskirk199@gmail.com
To: ronm@hevanet.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again

This is ridicules!!! she was not charged!!! wow cops are dumb. If a motorist has sun in their face and hits another car then they will get charged but, if the sun is in their eyes and hits and cyclist they don't get charged.. wow this is really messed up! We need to take a stand and let people know we count too and they should look out for cyclist.

On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Ron Magnus wrote:

Hello all,

Another car vs rider crash this morning. Some of you know Clark, keep hi

eric939@redshift.com

So, that's the breaks?

> I was just talking to a friend about the accident at Allen + Western. He
> said he witnessed the same type accident with two cars caused by the
> confusing blinking yellow light.
>
> I myself have had a close call at the same intersection. People do not
> understand traffic coming the other way may have a green light. IMO, the
> blinking light has to go.
>
> BTW, BRAKES slow you down. BREAKS are fractures. Grammar, people.
>
>
> On Aug 21, 2011, at 3:30 PM, Steven Marx wrote:
>
>> I think an issue being overlooked in the incident is the flashing yellow
>> lights now in use at intersections. I do not think it was sun in her
>> eyes as much as she was solely focused on getting through the
>> intersection on the yellow. I have had two incidents where I was almost
>> hit on a flashing yellow. When I complained to the city of Beaverton all
>> they said was for me to be more cautious at the intersections.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Aug 21, 2011, at 2:53 PM, wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the information Greg. I know police officers are human and
>>> can make good and poor decisions like the rest of us, but in general
>>> they are trained to make the proper ones in in situations like this. I
>>> think it is easy for almost any of us to get frustrated when what seems
>>> like a rash of incidents seem to “create an image” of the direction
>>> things (cyclist-auto driver relations) are moving. I still believe
>>> that by far the number of drivers doing their best to be courteous with
>>> regard to cyclists far outnumbers the ones who choose to behave in a
>>> negative manner.
>>> All of us regular folk need to remember that when a police officer,
>>> fireman or medic arrive on a scene they never know exactly what to
>>> expect....from injury to potential violence from people on the scene.
>>> No system is perfect (we can all think of examples), but for the most
>>> part we live in a pretty civil society because of our laws in place and
>>> the processes used to work through the system.
>>> The thing I try to keep in my mind with regard to the accidents is that
>>> the absolute worst thing is when someone loses a loved one..... I mean
>>> one day the person is here.... the next he/she is just GONE! Never
>>> again will he/she get to hug or be hugged. Such a loss! It is also
>>> terrible for all involved on all sides of the accident.
>>> I sure hope Clark makes it through this tough time.
>>> ron
>>>
>>> From: Gregg Magnus
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 9:04 AM
>>> To: buskirk199@gmail.com ; Dad
>>> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again
>>>
>>> Brian I don't know you but I do know from your ranting email that you
>>> have no clue how law enforcement, courts and the entire legal system
>>> works, so I reccomend that in the future before you make your self look
>>> like a jerk you educate yourself first.
>>>
>>> For those of you that don't know me my name is Gregg Magnus. I have
>>> grown up in the OBRA community since I was a child and love this sport
>>> and apparently I just found out I am a "dumb" Beaverton Police Officer.
>>>
>>> I was working yesterday when Clark was hit, I wasn't at the scene but I
>>> have been following this closely with the officers who are handling it.
>>>
>>> Brian here is a little education for you, so hopefully you can learn
>>> something about how these processes work.
>>>
>>> First at crashes or other calls where there are signifiant injuries
>>> many times no charges are filed right away, a thorough investigation
>>> must be conducted first to determine if a crime has been committed and
>>> what level of crime to charge.
>>> Second, flight risk is evaluated can a complete investigation be done
>>> before an arrest? Worked out with a experts in the area of question,
>>> District Attorneys, etc. Do we have to worry about threat to the victim
>>> or others?
>>>
>>> I don't know if criminal charges or a traffic citation will be filed on
>>> the driver at this point. I can assure you that this is being
>>> throughly investigated and because its a car vs cyclists its not being
>>> overlooked.
>>>
>>> I guess I will close with this, Brian or anyone else if you have a
>>> concern about how things are handled in Beaverton please look me up I
>>> can certainly look into anything, as far as any general law enforcement
>>> questions I am more than willing to help out and try to get the answers
>>> or get you connected with who should have the answers.
>>>
>>> Gregg Magnus
>>>
>>>
>>> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 22:12:32 -0700
>>> From: buskirk199@gmail.com
>>> To: ronm@hevanet.com
>>> CC: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again
>>>
>>> This is ridicules!!! she was not charged!!! wow cops are dumb. If a
>>> motorist has sun in their face and hits another car then they will get
>>> charged but, if the sun is in their eyes and hits and cyclist they
>>> don't get charged. wow this is really messed up! We need to take a
>>> stand and let people know we count too and they should look out for
>>> cyclist.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Ron Magnus wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> Another car vs rider crash this morning. Some of you know Clark, keep
>>> him
>>> in your thoughts for a complete recovery. Fortunately in this case it
>>> was
>>> not another hit and run, still a person is injured,
>>> http://www.kgw.com/news/neighborhood-news/beaverton/Bicyclist-hit-by-minivan
>>> -in-Beaverton-128125298.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Dan H

I was just talking to a friend about the accident at Allen + Western. He said he witnessed the same type accident with two cars caused by the confusing blinking yellow light.

I myself have had a close call at the same intersection. People do not understand traffic coming the other way may have a green light. IMO, the blinking light has to go.

BTW, BRAKES slow you down. BREAKS are fractures. Grammar, people.

On Aug 21, 2011, at 3:30 PM, Steven Marx wrote:

> I think an issue being overlooked in the incident is the flashing yellow lights now in use at intersections. I do not think it was sun in her eyes as much as she was solely focused on getting through the intersection on the yellow. I have had two incidents where I was almost hit on a flashing yellow. When I complained to the city of Beaverton all they said was for me to be more cautious at the intersections.
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 21, 2011, at 2:53 PM, wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the information Greg. I know police officers are human and can make good and poor decisions like the rest of us, but in general they are trained to make the proper ones in in situations like this. I think it is easy for almost any of us to get frustrated when what seems like a rash of incidents seem to “create an image” of the direction things (cyclist-auto driver relations) are moving. I still believe that by far the number of drivers doing their best to be courteous with regard to cyclists far outnumbers the ones who choose to behave in a negative manner.
>> All of us regular folk need to remember that when a police officer, fireman or medic arrive on a scene they never know exactly what to expect....from injury to potential violence from people on the scene. No system is perfect (we can all think of examples), but for the most part we live in a pretty civil society because of our laws in place and the processes used to work through the system.
>> The thing I try to keep in my mind with regard to the accidents is that the absolute worst thing is when someone loses a loved one..... I mean one day the person is here.... the next he/she is just GONE! Never again will he/she get to hug or be hugged. Such a loss! It is also terrible for all involved on all sides of the accident.
>> I sure hope Clark makes it through this tough time.
>> ron
>>
>> From: Gregg Magnus
>> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 9:04 AM
>> To: buskirk199@gmail.com ; Dad
>> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again
>>
>> Brian I don't know you but I do know from your ranting email that you have no clue how law enforcement, courts and the entire legal system works, so I reccomend that in the future before you make your self look like a jerk you educate yourself first.
>>
>> For those of you that don't know me my name is Gregg Magnus. I have grown up in the OBRA community since I was a child and love this sport and apparently I just found out I am a "dumb" Beaverton Police Officer.
>>
>> I was working yesterday when Clark was hit, I wasn't at the scene but I have been following this closely with the officers who are handling it.
>>
>> Brian here is a little education for you, so hopefully you can learn something about how these processes work.
>>
>> First at crashes or other calls where there are signifiant injuries many times no charges are filed right away, a thorough investigation must be conducted first to determine if a crime has been committed and what level of crime to charge.
>> Second, flight risk is evaluated can a complete investigation be done before an arrest? Worked out with a experts in the area of question, District Attorneys, etc. Do we have to worry about threat to the victim or others?
>>
>> I don't know if criminal charges or a traffic citation will be filed on the driver at this point. I can assure you that this is being throughly investigated and because its a car vs cyclists its not being overlooked.
>>
>> I guess I will close with this, Brian or anyone else if you have a concern about how things are handled in Beaverton please look me up I can certainly look into anything, as far as any general law enforcement questions I am more than willing to help out and try to get the answers or get you connected with who should have the answers.
>>
>> Gregg Magnus
>>
>>
>> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 22:12:32 -0700
>> From: buskirk199@gmail.com
>> To: ronm@hevanet.com
>> CC: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again
>>
>> This is ridicules!!! she was not charged!!! wow cops are dumb. If a motorist has sun in their face and hits another car then they will get charged but, if the sun is in their eyes and hits and cyclist they don't get charged. wow this is really messed up! We need to take a stand and let people know we count too and they should look out for cyclist.
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Ron Magnus wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Another car vs rider crash this morning. Some of you know Clark, keep him
>> in your thoughts for a complete recovery. Fortunately in this case it was
>> not another hit and run, still a person is injured,
>> http://www.kgw.com/news/neighborhood-news/beaverton/Bicyclist-hit-by-minivan
>> -in-Beaverton-128125298.html
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

joec@aracnet.com

Wouldnt it be in the best interest for all to let the police do their job and leave the Perry Mason surprises to Perry Mason?
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Lilly
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:37:37
To: OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again

I go through this intersection at SW Western and Allen in Beaverton at least
twice a day on my way to and from work. On the morning of the accident, I
drove by and saw the aftermath of this accident after the police had
arrived, but while the bike was still left in place on the roadway. Mr.
Henry had been transported to the hospital. I have a couple of observations
I would like to share.

At that intersection SW Allen runs east and west, so in the early morning it
is not difficult to believe that an east bound driver On Allen, looking to
the east would have her vision looking east impaired by the sun low on the
horizon.

As the accident is described, Mr. Henry was traveling toward her, west on
Allen, coming from the east.

BUT the accident occurred after the driver had made the turn to Western
Avenue. At the point of impact she had turned 90 degrees and was traveling
north entering onto Western Avenue. The bike was in Western Avenue as I
drove by. So assuming that driver was looking where she was going, at the
impact the driver would presumably have been looking north, not east into
the sun. Look at a map of the intersection, and you will see what I mean.

Looking north on Western Avenue, a driver could never be blinded by the sun.
It's just not physically possible. The sun rises in the east, swings around
to the south and sets in the west. The sun is never low in the horizon to
the north.

To me that indicates that the driver was not looking where she was going.
She might not have seen him coming west Allen Blvd. toward her, but as she
turned north onto Western Avenue, Mr. Henry would have been visible in front
of her. It is a big turn, she ought to have had time to stop.

I am a lawyer, but don't do car crashes or traffic violations, so I express
no opinion on her legal culpability, but if she was looking, I know she
could have seen him, regardless of the sun.

--
Mike

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Lilly

I go through this intersection at SW Western and Allen in Beaverton at least
twice a day on my way to and from work. On the morning of the accident, I
drove by and saw the aftermath of this accident after the police had
arrived, but while the bike was still left in place on the roadway. Mr.
Henry had been transported to the hospital. I have a couple of observations
I would like to share.

At that intersection SW Allen runs east and west, so in the early morning it
is not difficult to believe that an east bound driver On Allen, looking to
the east would have her vision looking east impaired by the sun low on the
horizon.

As the accident is described, Mr. Henry was traveling toward her, west on
Allen, coming from the east.

BUT the accident occurred after the driver had made the turn to Western
Avenue. At the point of impact she had turned 90 degrees and was traveling
north entering onto Western Avenue. The bike was in Western Avenue as I
drove by. So assuming that driver was looking where she was going, at the
impact the driver would presumably have been looking north, not east into
the sun. Look at a map of the intersection, and you will see what I mean.

Looking north on Western Avenue, a driver could never be blinded by the sun.
It's just not physically possible. The sun rises in the east, swings around
to the south and sets in the west. The sun is never low in the horizon to
the north.

To me that indicates that the driver was not looking where she was going.
She might not have seen him coming west Allen Blvd. toward her, but as she
turned north onto Western Avenue, Mr. Henry would have been visible in front
of her. It is a big turn, she ought to have had time to stop.

I am a lawyer, but don't do car crashes or traffic violations, so I express
no opinion on her legal culpability, but if she was looking, I know she
could have seen him, regardless of the sun.

--
Mike

Chipp

Good to hear you're getting your body and soul together. The driver that
right hooked me and fled the scene has never been found or turned herself
in.I called KGW, purposely because they are the least bike friendly IMHO and
they interviewed me and aired a short segment which ended with something
along the lines of "So what's the answer for car's vs bikes sharing the
road". Nothing about felony hit and run. Hope you heal stronger than before
and get back on the saddle again.( I've posted my hit and run story before
but maybe someone has heard something since: white female TEXTING ,
greenish/bluish/Honda type sedan,westbound,noonish 8-1-07,turned right,
north, on 75th S.E. Stark in front of Mr.Plywood.).----- Original
Message -----
From: "Michael Medina"
To: "OBRA"
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again

> FYI, I was in a car vs. bike accident on 6/7/11 and I believe that the
> Multnomah County DA is pursuing charges against the driver. I'm not
> involved in the case as I prefer to work on getting my body back in
> working order than get stressed out over details like that.
>
> I believe the media likes to close a story with "no charges were
> filed" or whatever because it sounds like a good ending to a news
> segment. It's not always true.
>
> I don't know what ever happened in the case of the 3 people on bikes
> in North Plains but I can't see how you could hit 3 people and not at
> least be going too fast for conditions (dark with headlights).
>
>
> Michael Medina
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Michael Medina

FYI, I was in a car vs. bike accident on 6/7/11 and I believe that the
Multnomah County DA is pursuing charges against the driver. I'm not
involved in the case as I prefer to work on getting my body back in
working order than get stressed out over details like that.

I believe the media likes to close a story with "no charges were
filed" or whatever because it sounds like a good ending to a news
segment. It's not always true.

I don't know what ever happened in the case of the 3 people on bikes
in North Plains but I can't see how you could hit 3 people and not at
least be going too fast for conditions (dark with headlights).

Michael Medina

Steven Marx

I think an issue being overlooked in the incident is the flashing yellow lights now in use at intersections. I do not think it was sun in her eyes as much as she was solely focused on getting through the intersection on the yellow. I have had two incidents where I was almost hit on a flashing yellow. When I complained to the city of Beaverton all they said was for me to be more cautious at the intersections.

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 21, 2011, at 2:53 PM, wrote:

> Thanks for the information Greg. I know police officers are human and can make good and poor decisions like the rest of us, but in general they are trained to make the proper ones in in situations like this. I think it is easy for almost any of us to get frustrated when what seems like a rash of incidents seem to “create an image” of the direction things (cyclist-auto driver relations) are moving. I still believe that by far the number of drivers doing their best to be courteous with regard to cyclists far outnumbers the ones who choose to behave in a negative manner.
> All of us regular folk need to remember that when a police officer, fireman or medic arrive on a scene they never know exactly what to expect....from injury to potential violence from people on the scene. No system is perfect (we can all think of examples), but for the most part we live in a pretty civil society because of our laws in place and the processes used to work through the system.
> The thing I try to keep in my mind with regard to the accidents is that the absolute worst thing is when someone loses a loved one..... I mean one day the person is here.... the next he/she is just GONE! Never again will he/she get to hug or be hugged. Such a loss! It is also terrible for all involved on all sides of the accident.
> I sure hope Clark makes it through this tough time.
> ron
>
> From: Gregg Magnus
> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 9:04 AM
> To: buskirk199@gmail.com ; Dad
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again
>
> Brian I don't know you but I do know from your ranting email that you have no clue how law enforcement, courts and the entire legal system works, so I reccomend that in the future before you make your self look like a jerk you educate yourself first.
>
> For those of you that don't know me my name is Gregg Magnus. I have grown up in the OBRA community since I was a child and love this sport and apparently I just found out I am a "dumb" Beaverton Police Officer.
>
> I was working yesterday when Clark was hit, I wasn't at the scene but I have been following this closely with the officers who are handling it.
>
> Brian here is a little education for you, so hopefully you can learn something about how these processes work.
>
> First at crashes or other calls where there are signifiant injuries many times no charges are filed right away, a thorough investigation must be conducted first to determine if a crime has been committed and what level of crime to charge.
> Second, flight risk is evaluated can a complete investigation be done before an arrest? Worked out with a experts in the area of question, District Attorneys, etc. Do we have to worry about threat to the victim or others?
>
> I don't know if criminal charges or a traffic citation will be filed on the driver at this point. I can assure you that this is being throughly investigated and because its a car vs cyclists its not being overlooked.
>
> I guess I will close with this, Brian or anyone else if you have a concern about how things are handled in Beaverton please look me up I can certainly look into anything, as far as any general law enforcement questions I am more than willing to help out and try to get the answers or get you connected with who should have the answers.
>
> Gregg Magnus
>
>
> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 22:12:32 -0700
> From: buskirk199@gmail.com
> To: ronm@hevanet.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again
>
> This is ridicules!!! she was not charged!!! wow cops are dumb. If a motorist has sun in their face and hits another car then they will get charged but, if the sun is in their eyes and hits and cyclist they don't get charged. wow this is really messed up! We need to take a stand and let people know we count too and they should look out for cyclist.
>
> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Ron Magnus wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Another car vs rider crash this morning. Some of you know Clark, keep him
> in your thoughts for a complete recovery. Fortunately in this case it was
> not another hit and run, still a person is injured,
> http://www.kgw.com/news/neighborhood-news/beaverton/Bicyclist-hit-by-minivan
> -in-Beaverton-128125298.html
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

rondot@spiritone.com

Thanks for the information Greg. I know police officers are human and can make good and poor decisions like the rest of us, but in general they are trained to make the proper ones in in situations like this. I think it is easy for almost any of us to get frustrated when what seems like a rash of incidents seem to “create an image” of the direction things (cyclist-auto driver relations) are moving. I still believe that by far the number of drivers doing their best to be courteous with regard to cyclists far outnumbers the ones who choose to behave in a negative manner.
All of us regular folk need to remember that when a police officer, fireman or medic arrive on a scene they never know exactly what to expect....from injury to potential violence from people on the scene. No system is perfect (we can all think of examples), but for the most part we live in a pretty civil society because of our laws in place and the processes used to work through the system.
The thing I try to keep in my mind with regard to the accidents is that the absolute worst thing is when someone loses a loved one..... I mean one day the person is here.... the next he/she is just GONE! Never again will he/she get to hug or be hugged. Such a loss! It is also terrible for all involved on all sides of the accident.
I sure hope Clark makes it through this tough time.
ron

From: Gregg Magnus
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 9:04 AM
To: buskirk199@gmail.com ; Dad
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again

Brian I don't know you but I do know from your ranting email that you have no clue how law enforcement, courts and the entire legal system works, so I reccomend that in the future before you make your self look like a jerk you educate yourself first.

For those of you that don't know me my name is Gregg Magnus. I have grown up in the OBRA community since I was a child and love this sport and apparently I just found out I am a "dumb" Beaverton Police Officer.

I was working yesterday when Clark was hit, I wasn't at the scene but I have been following this closely with the officers who are handling it.

Brian here is a little education for you, so hopefully you can learn something about how these processes work.

First at crashes or other calls where there are signifiant injuries many times no charges are filed right away, a thorough investigation must be conducted first to determine if a crime has been committed and what level of crime to charge.
Second, flight risk is evaluated can a complete investigation be done before an arrest? Worked out with a experts in the area of question, District Attorneys, etc. Do we have to worry about threat to the victim or others?

I don't know if criminal charges or a traffic citation will be filed on the driver at this point. I can assure you that this is being throughly investigated and because its a car vs cyclists its not being overlooked.

I guess I will close with this, Brian or anyone else if you have a concern about how things are handled in Beaverton please look me up I can certainly look into anything, as far as any general law enforcement questions I am more than willing to help out and try to get the answers or get you connected with who should have the answers.

Gregg Magnus

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 22:12:32 -0700
From: buskirk199@gmail.com
To: ronm@hevanet.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again

This is ridicules!!! she was not charged!!! wow cops are dumb. If a motorist has sun in their face and hits another car then they will get charged but, if the sun is in their eyes and hits and cyclist they don't get charged. wow this is really messed up! We need to take a stand and let people know we count too and they should look out for cyclist.

On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Ron Magnus wrote:

Hello all,

Another car vs rider crash this morning. Some of you know Clark, keep him
in your thoughts for a complete recovery. Fortunately in this case it was
not another hit and run, still a person is injured,
http://www.kgw.com/news/neighborhood-news/beaverton/Bicyclist-hit-by-minivan
-in-Beaverton-128125298.html

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

T. Kenji Sugahara

100% agreed. We have many in law enforcement and first responders in our
midst. Remember that investigations take time.

Thanks for everything that you all do.

On Sunday, August 21, 2011, Candi Murray wrote:
> Reently when there were so many incidents i was struck how the first
responders are so very important and probably do not get all the support
they should. We have quite a few in our community and are so very lucky to
do so.
> Thank you all.
>
> Candi
> On Aug 21, 2011, at 9:04 AM, Gregg Magnus wrote:
>
> Brian I don't know you but I do know from your ranting email that you have
no clue how law enforcement, courts and the entire legal system works, so I
reccomend that in the future before you make your self look like a
jerk you educate yourself first.
>
> For those of you that don't know me my name is Gregg Magnus. I have grown
up in the OBRA community since I was a child and love this sport and
apparently I just found out I am a "dumb" Beaverton Police Officer.
>
> I was working yesterday when Clark was hit, I wasn't at the scene but I
have been following this closely with the officers who are handling it.
>
> Brian here is a little education for you, so hopefully you can learn
something about how these processes work.
>
> First at crashes or other calls where there are signifiant injuries many
times no charges are filed right away, a thorough investigation must be
conducted first to determine if a crime has been committed and what level of
crime to charge.
> Second, flight risk is evaluated can a complete investigation be done
before an arrest? Worked out with a experts in the area of question,
District Attorneys, etc. Do we have to worry about threat to the victim or
others?
>
> I don't know if criminal charges or a traffic citation will be filed on
the driver at this point. I can assure you that this is being throughly
investigated and because its a car vs cyclists its not being overlooked.
>
> I guess I will close with this, Brian or anyone else if you have a concern
about how things are handled in Beaverton please look me up I can certainly
look into anything, as far as any general law enforcement questions I am
more than willing to help out and try to get the answers or get you
connected with who should have the answers.
>
> Gregg Magnus
>
>
> ________________________________
> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 22:12:32 -0700
> From: buskirk199@gmail.com
> To: ronm@hevanet.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again
>
> This is ridicules!!! she was not charged!!! wow cops are dumb. If a
motorist has sun in their face and hits another car then they will get
charged but, if the sun is in their eyes and hits and cyclist they don't get
charged. wow this is really messed up! We need to take a stand and let
people know we count too and they should look out for cyclist.
>
> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Ron Magnus wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> Another car vs rider crash this morning. Some of you know Clark, keep him
> in your thoughts for a complete recovery. Fortunately in this case it was
> not another hit and run, still a person is injured,
> <
http://www.kgw.com/news/neighborhood-news/beaverton/Bicyclist-hit-by-minivan-in-Beaverton-128125298.html
>
http://www.kgw.com/news/neighborhood-news/beaverton/Bicyclist-hit-by-minivan
> -in-Beaverton-128125298.html
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
>
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list

johnfforbes@comcast.net

Absolutely

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-----Original message-----
From: Candi Murray
To: obra
Sent: Sun, Aug 21, 2011 16:13:07 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again

Candi Murray

Reently when there were so many incidents i was struck how the first responders are so very important and probably do not get all the support they should. We have quite a few in our community and are so very lucky to do so.
Thank you all.

Candi

On Aug 21, 2011, at 9:04 AM, Gregg Magnus wrote:

> Brian I don't know you but I do know from your ranting email that you have no clue how law enforcement, courts and the entire legal system works, so I reccomend that in the future before you make your self look like a jerk you educate yourself first.
>
> For those of you that don't know me my name is Gregg Magnus. I have grown up in the OBRA community since I was a child and love this sport and apparently I just found out I am a "dumb" Beaverton Police Officer.
>
> I was working yesterday when Clark was hit, I wasn't at the scene but I have been following this closely with the officers who are handling it.
>
> Brian here is a little education for you, so hopefully you can learn something about how these processes work.
>
> First at crashes or other calls where there are signifiant injuries many times no charges are filed right away, a thorough investigation must be conducted first to determine if a crime has been committed and what level of crime to charge.
> Second, flight risk is evaluated can a complete investigation be done before an arrest? Worked out with a experts in the area of question, District Attorneys, etc. Do we have to worry about threat to the victim or others?
>
> I don't know if criminal charges or a traffic citation will be filed on the driver at this point. I can assure you that this is being throughly investigated and because its a car vs cyclists its not being overlooked.
>
> I guess I will close with this, Brian or anyone else if you have a concern about how things are handled in Beaverton please look me up I can certainly look into anything, as far as any general law enforcement questions I am more than willing to help out and try to get the answers or get you connected with who should have the answers.
>
> Gregg Magnus
>
>
> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 22:12:32 -0700
> From: buskirk199@gmail.com
> To: ronm@hevanet.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again
>
> This is ridicules!!! she was not charged!!! wow cops are dumb. If a motorist has sun in their face and hits another car then they will get charged but, if the sun is in their eyes and hits and cyclist they don't get charged. wow this is really messed up! We need to take a stand and let people know we count too and they should look out for cyclist.
>
> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Ron Magnus wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Another car vs rider crash this morning. Some of you know Clark, keep him
> in your thoughts for a complete recovery. Fortunately in this case it was
> not another hit and run, still a person is injured,
> http://www.kgw.com/news/neighborhood-news/beaverton/Bicyclist-hit-by-minivan
> -in-Beaverton-128125298.html
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Gregg Magnus

Brian I don't know you but I do know from your ranting email that you have no clue how law enforcement, courts and the entire legal system works, so I reccomend that in the future before you make your self look like a jerk you educate yourself first.

For those of you that don't know me my name is Gregg Magnus. I have grown up in the OBRA community since I was a child and love this sport and apparently I just found out I am a "dumb" Beaverton Police Officer.

I was working yesterday when Clark was hit, I wasn't at the scene but I have been following this closely with the officers who are handling it.

Brian here is a little education for you, so hopefully you can learn something about how these processes work.

First at crashes or other calls where there are signifiant injuries many times no charges are filed right away, a thorough investigation must be conducted first to determine if a crime has been committed and what level of crime to charge.
Second, flight risk is evaluated can a complete investigation be done before an arrest? Worked out with a experts in the area of question, District Attorneys, etc. Do we have to worry about threat to the victim or others?

I don't know if criminal charges or a traffic citation will be filed on the driver at this point. I can assure you that this is being throughly investigated and because its a car vs cyclists its not being overlooked.

I guess I will close with this, Brian or anyone else if you have a concern about how things are handled in Beaverton please look me up I can certainly look into anything, as far as any general law enforcement questions I am more than willing to help out and try to get the answers or get you connected with who should have the answers.

Gregg Magnus

Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 22:12:32 -0700
From: buskirk199@gmail.com
To: ronm@hevanet.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car vs Rider, again

This is ridicules!!! she was not charged!!! wow cops are dumb. If a motorist has sun in their face and hits another car then they will get charged but, if the sun is in their eyes and hits and cyclist they don't get charged. wow this is really messed up! We need to take a stand and let people know we count too and they should look out for cyclist.

On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Ron Magnus wrote:

Hello all,

Another car vs rider crash this morning. Some of you know Clark, keep him
in your thoughts for a complete recovery. Fortunately in this case it was
not another hit and run, still a person is injured,
http://www.kgw.com/news/neighborhood-news/beaverton/Bicyclist-hit-by-minivan
-in-Beaverton-128125298.html

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Rick Johnson

Similar circumstances to just two days ago with a 7-year-old boy in
Madras. Citations for careless driving and failure to yield to a
pedestrian were issued.

http://www.ktvz.com/news/28915504/detail.html

On 8/20/2011 10:12 PM, brian buskirk wrote:
> This is ridicules!!! she was not charged!!! wow cops are dumb. If a
> motorist has sun in their face and hits another car then they will get
> charged but, if the sun is in their eyes and hits and cyclist they
> don't get charged. wow this is really messed up! We need to take a
> stand and let people know we count too and they should look out for
> cyclist.
>
> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Ron Magnus > wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> Another car vs rider crash this morning. Some of you know Clark,
> keep him
> in your thoughts for a complete recovery. Fortunately in this
> case it was
> not another hit and run, still a person is injured,
> http://www.kgw.com/news/neighborhood-news/beaverton/Bicyclist-hit-by-minivan
> -in-Beaverton-128125298.html
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

brian buskirk

This is ridicules!!! she was not charged!!! wow cops are dumb. If a motorist
has sun in their face and hits another car then they will get charged but,
if the sun is in their eyes and hits and cyclist they don't get charged. wow
this is really messed up! We need to take a stand and let people know we
count too and they should look out for cyclist.

On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Ron Magnus wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Another car vs rider crash this morning. Some of you know Clark, keep him
> in your thoughts for a complete recovery. Fortunately in this case it was
> not another hit and run, still a person is injured,
>
> http://www.kgw.com/news/neighborhood-news/beaverton/Bicyclist-hit-by-minivan
> -in-Beaverton-128125298.html
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Ron Magnus

Hello all,

Another car vs rider crash this morning. Some of you know Clark, keep him
in your thoughts for a complete recovery. Fortunately in this case it was
not another hit and run, still a person is injured,
http://www.kgw.com/news/neighborhood-news/beaverton/Bicyclist-hit-by-minivan
-in-Beaverton-128125298.html