rondot@spiritone.com

Kenneth,
Put your own race on in this location and see what you need to charge to
cover cost. Or you could just post on OBRA that you think it is too
expensive and get several responses either with or not with your
perspective......but most important you can just speak your mind by not
racing the race. You have one right there in the Portland area you can
race!
Kenji put on a great race today and if I was racing A cat, I would not have
let that amount keep me from racing.
You have made your point, but remember putting a race on is a much different
experience than just showing up and racing.
Take care and keep racing.
ron strasser

-----Original Message-----
From: Kenneth Reed
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 9:34 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Applecore price

You really need to charge $30 for A's for applecore? For a small,
far-from-Portland Saturday race... thirty bucks?!
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Matthew Lasala

Didn't you read the flyer regarding prizes for the As?...that $10 has to
come from somewhere...there better be some people there with cameras...

Cat A Men & Women
$50 to the winner of the first lap (1x for the women, 1x for the men)
*$10 for the wearer of the skimpiest outfit* (women must wear at least a
bra and panties, men must wear at least panties.. er... undies. In case of
a tie, the tie will be settled by who can do 10 pushups and a 25 yard dash
the fastest)

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:06 AM, Mick Walsh wrote:

> Now we just need $30,000! And unlimited time off work.
>
>
>
> On Nov 5, 2011, at 9:39 AM, Kevin wrote:
>
> > See you in Oceanside Mick? ;-)
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
*Matthew Lasala
*
*Start slow...then taper *
**
*www.lasalaimages.com *

Mick Walsh

Now we just need $30,000! And unlimited time off work.

On Nov 5, 2011, at 9:39 AM, Kevin wrote:

> See you in Oceanside Mick? ;-)

Brooke Hoyer

I can't believe that people haven't taken this guy to task about the "far from Portland" comment. If a 45 minute drive is far, then I begin to wonder about his travel expectations.

Kenneth Reed wrote:

>You really need to charge $30 for A's for applecore? For a small, far-from-Portland Saturday race... thirty bucks?!
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Kevin

See you in Oceanside Mick? ;-)

Mick Walsh

If you insist... 2013?

On Nov 5, 2011, at 7:13 AM, Kevin wrote:

> Complaining about a $30 registration fee for a bike event is lame. You think $30 is steep? Go ride RAAM!
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> What is happening in Kevin's corner of the bike world?
> http://the-whir-of-spokes-in-air.blogspot.com
> http://crosscountryraamblings.blogspot.com
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> From: Mike Murray
> To: "remailer, OBRA"
> Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 7:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Applecore price
>
> "Far from Portland" does not make the race cheaper to put on. It increases the costs to get equipment as well as travel costs for personnel. "Small" means that less money comes in entry fees and, generally, in sponsorship. Fixed costs to put on a small race are, for the most part, the same as for a big race. Although "Far from Portland" and "small" may decrease the value for participants, neither is a rational reason to decrease entry fee. My guess is that neither of the Saturday races are going to have enough attendance to cover their costs and both will lose money but we will see.
> ------Original Message------
> From: Kenneth Reed
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> To: remailer, OBRA
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Applecore price
> Sent: Nov 4, 2011 21:34
>
> You really need to charge $30 for A's for applecore? For a small, far-from-Portland Saturday race... thirty bucks?!
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> Mike Murray
> Sent via BlackBerry
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
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>
>
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Josh Cady

Almost all of the A races here in Southern California are $30. Some are
more. Only $32.50 to pre-reg online for the Long Beach race on Sunday.
Then I drive an hour in traffic down the 405 - it is a close one. A few
weeks ago I drove 2.5 hours for the local race. Thankfully they don't have
but one a weekend. I would be dirt poor.

I can't wait to move back to Oregon and be able to race two a weekend, or
more. You don't what you got until you have to move for work and it's gone.

#firstworldproblems
On Nov 5, 2011 8:00 AM, "Mike Murray" wrote:

> BTW, in the FWIW category and in contrast to what some others have
> posted, I agree that $30 is above the market value for bike races. I just
> don't agree that small and far from Portland are reasons to expect that
> entry fee will be lower. We have set things up in OBRA to try to keep race
> organizer cost low and to shift costs from fixed to variable as much as
> possible. The idea is to decrease financial risk for race organizer to
> encourage people to put on races as well as to keep entry fees low so that
> more people will be participants in those races. Looking at how things are
> going now I think it can be argued that this process has worked very well.
> We are now starting to see entry fees creep up. This is to be expected
> since the degree of participation is high enough that it can withstand a
> bit of disincentive. In some cases, probably not today's races, this is
> because the organizer is trying to make some money. This is all OK. What
> people need to do is not go to races that ha
> ve an entry fee they feel is too high. Races that lose money will either
> find other sources of revenue or go away.
> Mike Murray
> Sent via BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Mike Murray"
> Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 14:08:09
> To: remailer, OBRA
> Reply-To: mike.murray@obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Applecore price
>
> "Far from Portland" does not make the race cheaper to put on. It increases
> the costs to get equipment as well as travel costs for personnel. "Small"
> means that less money comes in entry fees and, generally, in sponsorship.
> Fixed costs to put on a small race are, for the most part, the same as for
> a big race. Although "Far from Portland" and "small" may decrease the value
> for participants, neither is a rational reason to decrease entry fee. My
> guess is that neither of the Saturday races are going to have enough
> attendance to cover their costs and both will lose money but we will see.
> ------Original Message------
> From: Kenneth Reed
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> To: remailer, OBRA
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Applecore price
> Sent: Nov 4, 2011 21:34
>
> You really need to charge $30 for A's for applecore? For a small,
> far-from-Portland Saturday race... thirty bucks?!
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> Mike Murray
> Sent via BlackBerry
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

mohair

Just to keep things in perspective, consider what it costs to race NASCAR. Last year some wannabe owner put down $250,000 to put two cars on the starting grid at Daytona. Bike racing is cheap.

On Nov 5, 2011, at 7:13 AM, Kevin wrote:

> Complaining about a $30 registration fee for a bike event is lame. You think $30 is steep? Go ride RAAM!
>

Mike Murray

BTW, in the FWIW category and in contrast to what some others have posted, I agree that $30 is above the market value for bike races. I just don't agree that small and far from Portland are reasons to expect that entry fee will be lower. We have set things up in OBRA to try to keep race organizer cost low and to shift costs from fixed to variable as much as possible. The idea is to decrease financial risk for race organizer to encourage people to put on races as well as to keep entry fees low so that more people will be participants in those races. Looking at how things are going now I think it can be argued that this process has worked very well. We are now starting to see entry fees creep up. This is to be expected since the degree of participation is high enough that it can withstand a bit of disincentive. In some cases, probably not today's races, this is because the organizer is trying to make some money. This is all OK. What people need to do is not go to races that have an entry fee they feel is too high. Races that lose money will either find other sources of revenue or go away.
Mike Murray
Sent via BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Mike Murray"
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 14:08:09
To: remailer, OBRA
Reply-To: mike.murray@obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Applecore price

"Far from Portland" does not make the race cheaper to put on. It increases the costs to get equipment as well as travel costs for personnel. "Small" means that less money comes in entry fees and, generally, in sponsorship. Fixed costs to put on a small race are, for the most part, the same as for a big race. Although "Far from Portland" and "small" may decrease the value for participants, neither is a rational reason to decrease entry fee. My guess is that neither of the Saturday races are going to have enough attendance to cover their costs and both will lose money but we will see.
------Original Message------
From: Kenneth Reed
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
To: remailer, OBRA
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Applecore price
Sent: Nov 4, 2011 21:34

You really need to charge $30 for A's for applecore? For a small, far-from-Portland Saturday race... thirty bucks?!
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Murray
Sent via BlackBerry

Kevin

Complaining about a $30 registration fee for a bike event is lame.

Mike Murray

"Far from Portland" does not make the race cheaper to put on. It increases the costs to get equipment as well as travel costs for personnel. "Small" means that less money comes in entry fees and, generally, in sponsorship. Fixed costs to put on a small race are, for the most part, the same as for a big race. Although "Far from Portland" and "small" may decrease the value for participants, neither is a rational reason to decrease entry fee. My guess is that neither of the Saturday races are going to have enough attendance to cover their costs and both will lose money but we will see.
------Original Message------
From: Kenneth Reed
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
To: remailer, OBRA
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Applecore price
Sent: Nov 4, 2011 21:34

You really need to charge $30 for A's for applecore? For a small, far-from-Portland Saturday race... thirty bucks?!
_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
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Mike Murray
Sent via BlackBerry

Shane Gibson

OMG you really need to whine about $30 bucks for a great race? That's
pathetic ...

~~shane

--
"Opportunities multiply as they are seized." - Sun Tzu

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Kenneth Reed wrote:

> You really need to charge $30 for A's for applecore? For a small,
> far-from-Portland Saturday race... thirty bucks?!
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Kenneth Reed

You really need to charge $30 for A's for applecore? For a small, far-from-Portland Saturday race... thirty bucks?!