Kevin

Great idea. Maybe something like that icecream van jingle? LOL! Now we can fill the OBRA chat list with our choice of songs we'd like to hear. ;-)

Paul Souders

+1 this.

It's like trying to have a conversation in Spanish when the only word you
know is "caca"

Paul

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:37 AM, Patrick Vinograd wrote:

> I really wish cars came with two horns: a friendly "hey, I'm back
> here" or "hey, the light turned green" horn and obviously we still
> need the standard "%$)# you for cutting me off!" horn every once in a
> while.
>
> -Patrick
>
> > I will add that a general consensus among all attendees was that a
> motorist giving a short toot of the horn a fair distance
> > back was ok. Sort of a "I'm back here" notice. If a car does that don't
> get unglued.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Patrick Vinograd

I really wish cars came with two horns: a friendly "hey, I'm back
here" or "hey, the light turned green" horn and obviously we still
need the standard "%$)# you for cutting me off!" horn every once in a
while.

-Patrick

> I will add that a general consensus among all attendees was that a motorist giving a short toot of the horn a fair distance
> back was ok. Sort of a "I'm back here" notice.

Kevin

I will add that a general consensus among all attendees was that a motorist giving a short toot of the horn a fair distance back was ok. Sort of a "I'm back here" notice. If a car does that don't get unglued.

Shane Gibson

I too was in attendance at the meeting. I am a resident of Skyline (living
only 1/4 mile from the Grange), and am an active cyclist. I've ridden
these roads for years - and have never had any serious issues; the
occasional "too close for comfort" pass, but that's normal anywhere.

I think that Jennifer has captured most of the meeting fairly well. I
would like to add a few points that I think are important. Scott Wheeler
has a clear and definite prejudice against bicyclists that unfortunately,
does not allow him to consider any other point of view, besides his own
twisted (and clearly pointed out) inaccurate interpretations of the law.
Sadly - he's probably not alone with his axe to grind.

Officer Monty (Captain with Multnomah Sheriff's office, I forget his last
name) pointed out that if anyone feels threatened or harassed on the road
has a clear path to provide a Citizen's Complaint. The process may not
immediately result in a fine, or will be actionable, but if the person who
is harassing one sector of the public has multiple complaints lodged
against them ... it may very well result in significant actions against
them in a future altercation. The point was made that it's important for
you TO IMMEDIATELY call 911, with the following specific information:

date, time, and as specific a location as possible
detailed description of the vehicle involved
detailed description of the driver
**License Plate** of the vehicle
description of the events that occurred
ALL parties (i.e. multiple cyclists) should lodge a complaint

If in the future, a civil or criminal lawsuit is brought against this
person arising from their actions - these complaints will serve as a signal
to the DA that the person has a history of issues, and will weigh
significantly in the outcome of the process.

In addition, if you find unsafe conditions on the road, please report them
to the appropriate city/county agency. For Multnomah county (i.e. the
Skyline Road area), call (503) 823-SAFE. Some examples include the
(standard always an issue) lack of maintenance on Skyline to mow back grass
and blackberries that cause cyclist to be less visible around corners, or
to ride further out in the lane than is necessary, bad potholes that would
cause you to swerve further into the lane, etc... Eventually - enough
(well considered) complaints will result in actions.

As a motorist on these roads, I have interacted many times with my fellow
cyclists. For the most part - they have all been exceptionally easy and
polite interactions. There are a few things that cyclists can do to make
the whole process of sharing our roads easier. I would ask you to all keep
these in mind when you're out on your rides:

* if riding 2+ abreast, be conscientious of traffic, and tuck in single
file *immediately*
* ride predictably, and as close the shoulder as is _safe_ and
practicable
* always be polite - if someone goes the extra mile to be extra cautious
to pass you, don't get annoyed and wave them forward - let them pass when
THEY think it's safe - a polite wave of "thank you" goes a long ways to
making everyone happy
* it's okay to wave a driver forward, because you see the road is clear -
but remember it is THEIR responsibility to pass you safely, and it's okay
to let them take that extra second or two
* if in large group rides, don't ride more than 3 or 4 deep in single
file - leave a gap that a vehicle can slide in to if they need to pass

We both have responsibilities to enable safe sharing of the roads. As
Kenjie stated at the meeting ... some of you are just plain "jerks" and
won't understand ... but the vast majority of you who aren't born and bred
jerks, can make a huge difference to all of the communities that we ride
and enjoy.

Remember that we do have rights as cyclists - but, also remember that 4,000
pounds of hurtling steel and glass is not an argument you can win against.
I have lost two friends that have been killed in cycle-motorist accidents
(both in Santa Cruz, CA). I have witnessed cyclists who have been hit on
Skyline by my house. I would hate to see any of you injured or killed on
the roads because you felt you were in the "right".

When Kenjie, OBRA, BTA, and/or your team leaders come out with some
suggestions for appropriate riding behaviors, I encourage you to please
read them (even though you "know" them), internalize them, and share them
with your cycling friends who may not have seen the message. We are
incredibly lucky to live in such a beautiful place to ride; and in a time
and history that affords us the financial (strained as it may be sometimes)
and free time to enjoy the roads on our bicycles.

Thanks for listening and be safe out there!

~~shane

--
"Opportunities multiply as they are seized." - Sun Tzu

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Jennifer Leonard <
jennifer.m.leonard@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi OBRAland
>
> I sent the following report to my Team Crank teammates and was encouraged
> to send it here, so if youre interested in one person's perspective here ya
> go!
>
>
> I was there for most of the meeting, it was from 7-9 and I stayed till
> about 8:30. The overall mood of the meeting was fairly positive and I
> think a lot of valuable things were communicated. The room was about half
> and half residents and non-residents with a mix of cyclists among both
> groups.
>
> I saw Jon Maus there so Im sure he will have an article up on bikeportland
> with the particulars, but Ill give my impressions and what I thought the
> highlights were.
>
> The meeting got off to a rather technical start with an overview of the
> existing laws regarding bicycling. I appreciated that Mark Ginsberg just
> cut to the chase and said 'really, the reason we are all here is regarding
> questions about passing on a double yellow line' alluding to the ongoing
> tensions between cyclists and one particular Skyline resident, Scott
> Wheeler. You can read up about it here
>
> *
> http://bikeportland.org/2011/08/19/on-rock-creek-road-an-openly-hostile-road-user-galvanizes-the-community-57963
>
> *Scott was there, and interrupted Mark several times (in violation of the
> rules we all agreed upon at the start of the meeting) and generally kept
> insisting that bikes are required by law to pull off the road anytime they
> are approached from behind by a vehicle and there is a double yellow line.
> It was unfortunate that he didnt seem interested in the opinions of either
> Mark or the Sherrif (I dont recall his name) who was on the panel with
> Mark. His wife was there as well and seemed to be insinuating in her
> questions to the panel that cyclists should be held responsible if a car
> attempts to pass and causes an accident. She mentioned they have a 16yr old
> who is learning to drive and "doesnt have the best judgement yet" So, be
> careful out there.
>
> Again, those are my impressions. Im disappointed but not surprised that
> Scott reacted in that way, given what Id heard of him, but at least he
> showed up. Brie (who reported Scott in the article above) took a turn
> speaking and called Scott out on what he did to her in a factual and
> eloquent way to thunderous applause. It takes a lot of nerve to stand up
> to someone who has tried to run you off the road repeatedly in a room full
> of people. She pointed out that he himself was violating traffic laws
> (excessive use of horn) in his attempt at vigilante justice in running her
> off the road.
>
> A lot of people asked for clarification on laws or even just greater
> understanding of why cyclists behave as they do. Several people gave
> examples of why a cyclist may need to ride in the middle of the road or be
> unable to yield in certain situations. One resident asked what is the best
> way to warn a cyclist when approaching from behind. And another resident
> mentioned 'the people here feel like they are being abused' when speaking
> about some of the rampant hostility in the neighborhood to cyclists. Points
> were made about long pace lines being just as difficult to pass as people
> riding several abreast which is a good thing to keep in mind when doing
> group rides. One woman said she is impeded up to 5 times a day by cyclists
> while driving her car in the area. Thats something I hadnt considered; for
> someone whos job requires them to drive along Skyline all day i can see how
> cyclists could be a big impact.
>
> Team Crank should be expecting a communication from Kenji, who stood up
> and said he would make sure to communicate to every team how to ride
> courteously. He said "ill be honest, there are some cyclists that are just
> jerks, and I cant do anything about that."
>
> One resident shared that in 20 years of living and riding on Skyline she
> had never encountered an aggressive driver. She called for us all to
> remember what fantastic place we live in and that we are all human beings
> sharing the road together. I sat next to a guy Id ridden with once before
> who related his tale of being run off the road on West Union last summer.
> So clearly we all have very different experiences.
>
> I was glad for the dialogue, but I thought there was a lack on 2 points.
> The primary one being really hearing people. I felt like we could have had
> a better discussion, particularly with Scott, if we had gone into the space
> of why people feel so hostile. Some of it came out as being detained
> behind bikes, which for residents of the area can occur several times a
> day, but i think what is really needed is more 1 on 1 discussions with
> people who are particularly hostile to understand what they are really
> needing. It was clear from the interaction with Scott that laws are
> subject to interpretation and simply stating the law is not sufficient to
> change hearts and minds. People really need to be heard and have their
> needs understood and met.
>
> The other thing I thought was lacking, or that concerns me, is that as you
> would expect the cooperative people were mostly the ones in the room. I
> think there are many that stayed home that have a lot of hostility towards
> sharing the road, be they cyclists or car drivers. Several Skyline
> residents commented that they had been in awkward positions, as both
> residents and cyclists, among neighbors that are very angry about cycling
> in the area. Clearly there is much hostility and that is a real danger to
> everyone.
>
> So the takeaway for me was to be more conscientious when riding out there.
> Its easy to get taken with the views or in chatting with friends but we are
> sharing the road with cars and need to be conscientious about that. I
> drive out there too but I think Im a fairly courteous driver to cyclists
> ;) Its not that I dont pay attention when Im on my bike, but I think I
> could do a better job.
>
> Jenn
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Monty Hill

Interesting to note. If the intent of our Land Use Laws was being met outside the Urban Growth Boundary, This Scott Wheeler would be stuck behind a lot of farm vehicles.

Glad to know the meeting went well. Thanks to all who attended. Thank you Mark Ginsberg!

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Jennifer Leonard
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:00 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] my take on last nights Skyline meeting

Hi OBRAland

I sent the following report to my Team Crank teammates and was encouraged to send it here, so if youre interested in one person's perspective here ya go!

I was there for most of the meeting, it was from 7-9 and I stayed till about 8:30. The overall mood of the meeting was fairly positive and I think a lot of valuable things were communicated. The room was about half and half residents and non-residents with a mix of cyclists among both groups.

I saw Jon Maus there so Im sure he will have an article up on bikeportland with the particulars, but Ill give my impressions and what I thought the highlights were.

The meeting got off to a rather technical start with an overview of the existing laws regarding bicycling. I appreciated that Mark Ginsberg just cut to the chase and said 'really, the reason we are all here is regarding questions about passing on a double yellow line' alluding to the ongoing tensions between cyclists and one particular Skyline resident, Scott Wheeler. You can read up about it here

http://bikeportland.org/2011/08/19/on-rock-creek-road-an-openly-hostile-road-user-galvanizes-the-community-57963

Scott was there, and interrupted Mark several times (in violation of the rules we all agreed upon at the start of the meeting) and generally kept insisting that bikes are required by law to pull off the road anytime they are approached from behind by a vehicle and there is a double yellow line. It was unfortunate that he didnt seem interested in the opinions of either Mark or the Sherrif (I dont recall his name) who was on the panel with Mark. His wife was there as well and seemed to be insinuating in her questions to the panel that cyclists should be held responsible if a car attempts to pass and causes an accident. She mentioned they have a 16yr old who is learning to drive and "doesnt have the best judgement yet" So, be careful out there.

Again, those are my impressions. Im disappointed but not surprised that Scott reacted in that way, given what Id heard of him, but at least he showed up. Brie (who reported Scott in the article above) took a turn speaking and called Scott out on what he did to her in a factual and eloquent way to thunderous applause. It takes a lot of nerve to stand up to someone who has tried to run you off the road repeatedly in a room full of people. She pointed out that he himself was violating traffic laws (excessive use of horn) in his attempt at vigilante justice in running her off the road.

A lot of people asked for clarification on laws or even just greater understanding of why cyclists behave as they do. Several people gave examples of why a cyclist may need to ride in the middle of the road or be unable to yield in certain situations. One resident asked what is the best way to warn a cyclist when approaching from behind. And another resident mentioned 'the people here feel like they are being abused' when speaking about some of the rampant hostility in the neighborhood to cyclists. Points were made about long pace lines being just as difficult to pass as people riding several abreast which is a good thing to keep in mind when doing group rides. One woman said she is impeded up to 5 times a day by cyclists while driving her car in the area. Thats something I hadnt considered; for someone whos job requires them to drive along Skyline all day i can see how cyclists could be a big impact.

Team Crank should be expecting a communication from Kenji, who stood up and said he would make sure to communicate to every team how to ride courteously. He said "ill be honest, there are some cyclists that are just jerks, and I cant do anything about that."

One resident shared that in 20 years of living and riding on Skyline she had never encountered an aggressive driver. She called for us all to remember what fantastic place we live in and that we are all human beings sharing the road together. I sat next to a guy Id ridden with once before who related his tale of being run off the road on West Union last summer. So clearly we all have very different experiences.

I was glad for the dialogue, but I thought there was a lack on 2 points. The primary one being really hearing people. I felt like we could have had a better discussion, particularly with Scott, if we had gone into the space of why people feel so hostile. Some of it came out as being detained behind bikes, which for residents of the area can occur several times a day, but i think what is really needed is more 1 on 1 discussions with people who are particularly hostile to understand what they are really needing. It was clear from the interaction with Scott that laws are subject to interpretation and simply stating the law is not sufficient to change hearts and minds. People really need to be heard and have their needs understood and met.

The other thing I thought was lacking, or that concerns me, is that as you would expect the cooperative people were mostly the ones in the room. I think there are many that stayed home that have a lot of hostility towards sharing the road, be they cyclists or car drivers. Several Skyline residents commented that they had been in awkward positions, as both residents and cyclists, among neighbors that are very angry about cycling in the area. Clearly there is much hostility and that is a real danger to everyone.

So the takeaway for me was to be more conscientious when riding out there. Its easy to get taken with the views or in chatting with friends but we are sharing the road with cars and need to be conscientious about that. I drive out there too but I think Im a fairly courteous driver to cyclists ;) Its not that I dont pay attention when Im on my bike, but I think I could do a better job.

Jenn

Gregg Magnus

My recollection of slow moving vehicle laws in Oregon (envision farm equipment traveling on single lane road) is when a number (10 comes to mind) vehicles are slowed up behind said slow moving vehicle, when there is a place to move to the side of the road and allow the vehicles to pass you must do so....don't quote me on this it's just what I recall at one point. Main thing in all laws is reasonableness, is it reasonable for a bike to pull off of the roadway every time a car comes up behind it??...no. But if a bike or bikes are causing a backup of several cars then yes it's reasonable to allow the cars to pass by removing yourself from the roadway when safe to do so.

Gregg

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 10, 2011, at 14:14, Steve Brown wrote:

> Question. Is is reasonable to assume that in some situations where if may be difficult for a car to pass we should stop and let the car by. Is there a definition of when we are just traffic and when we are not?
>
>
> On Nov 10, 2011, at 1:59 PM, Jennifer Leonard wrote:
>
>> Hi OBRAland
>>
>> I sent the following report to my Team Crank teammates and was encouraged to send it here, so if youre interested in one person's perspective here ya go!
>>
>>
>> I was there for most of the meeting, it was from 7-9 and I stayed till about 8:30. The overall mood of the meeting was fairly positive and I think a lot of valuable things were communicated. The room was about half and half residents and non-residents with a mix of cyclists among both groups.
>>
>> I saw Jon Maus there so Im sure he will have an article up on bikeportland with the particulars, but Ill give my impressions and what I thought the highlights were.
>>
>> The meeting got off to a rather technical start with an overview of the existing laws regarding bicycling. I appreciated that Mark Ginsberg just cut to the chase and said 'really, the reason we are all here is regarding questions about passing on a double yellow line' alluding to the ongoing tensions between cyclists and one particular Skyline resident, Scott Wheeler. You can read up about it here
>>
>> http://bikeportland.org/2011/08/19/on-rock-creek-road-an-openly-hostile-road-user-galvanizes-the-community-57963
>>
>> Scott was there, and interrupted Mark several times (in violation of the rules we all agreed upon at the start of the meeting) and generally kept insisting that bikes are required by law to pull off the road anytime they are approached from behind by a vehicle and there is a double yellow line. It was unfortunate that he didnt seem interested in the opinions of either Mark or the Sherrif (I dont recall his name) who was on the panel with Mark. His wife was there as well and seemed to be insinuating in her questions to the panel that cyclists should be held responsible if a car attempts to pass and causes an accident. She mentioned they have a 16yr old who is learning to drive and "doesnt have the best judgement yet" So, be careful out there.
>>
>> Again, those are my impressions. Im disappointed but not surprised that Scott reacted in that way, given what Id heard of him, but at least he showed up. Brie (who reported Scott in the article above) took a turn speaking and called Scott out on what he did to her in a factual and eloquent way to thunderous applause. It takes a lot of nerve to stand up to someone who has tried to run you off the road repeatedly in a room full of people. She pointed out that he himself was violating traffic laws (excessive use of horn) in his attempt at vigilante justice in running her off the road.
>>
>> A lot of people asked for clarification on laws or even just greater understanding of why cyclists behave as they do. Several people gave examples of why a cyclist may need to ride in the middle of the road or be unable to yield in certain situations. One resident asked what is the best way to warn a cyclist when approaching from behind. And another resident mentioned 'the people here feel like they are being abused' when speaking about some of the rampant hostility in the neighborhood to cyclists. Points were made about long pace lines being just as difficult to pass as people riding several abreast which is a good thing to keep in mind when doing group rides. One woman said she is impeded up to 5 times a day by cyclists while driving her car in the area. Thats something I hadnt considered; for someone whos job requires them to drive along Skyline all day i can see how cyclists could be a big impact.
>>
>> Team Crank should be expecting a communication from Kenji, who stood up and said he would make sure to communicate to every team how to ride courteously. He said "ill be honest, there are some cyclists that are just jerks, and I cant do anything about that."
>>
>> One resident shared that in 20 years of living and riding on Skyline she had never encountered an aggressive driver. She called for us all to remember what fantastic place we live in and that we are all human beings sharing the road together. I sat next to a guy Id ridden with once before who related his tale of being run off the road on West Union last summer. So clearly we all have very different experiences.
>>
>> I was glad for the dialogue, but I thought there was a lack on 2 points. The primary one being really hearing people. I felt like we could have had a better discussion, particularly with Scott, if we had gone into the space of why people feel so hostile. Some of it came out as being detained behind bikes, which for residents of the area can occur several times a day, but i think what is really needed is more 1 on 1 discussions with people who are particularly hostile to understand what they are really needing. It was clear from the interaction with Scott that laws are subject to interpretation and simply stating the law is not sufficient to change hearts and minds. People really need to be heard and have their needs understood and met.
>>
>> The other thing I thought was lacking, or that concerns me, is that as you would expect the cooperative people were mostly the ones in the room. I think there are many that stayed home that have a lot of hostility towards sharing the road, be they cyclists or car drivers. Several Skyline residents commented that they had been in awkward positions, as both residents and cyclists, among neighbors that are very angry about cycling in the area. Clearly there is much hostility and that is a real danger to everyone.
>>
>> So the takeaway for me was to be more conscientious when riding out there. Its easy to get taken with the views or in chatting with friends but we are sharing the road with cars and need to be conscientious about that. I drive out there too but I think Im a fairly courteous driver to cyclists ;) Its not that I dont pay attention when Im on my bike, but I think I could do a better job.
>>
>> Jenn
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Steve Brown

Question. Is is reasonable to assume that in some situations where if may be difficult for a car to pass we should stop and let the car by. Is there a definition of when we are just traffic and when we are not?

On Nov 10, 2011, at 1:59 PM, Jennifer Leonard wrote:

> Hi OBRAland
>
> I sent the following report to my Team Crank teammates and was encouraged to send it here, so if youre interested in one person's perspective here ya go!
>
>
> I was there for most of the meeting, it was from 7-9 and I stayed till about 8:30. The overall mood of the meeting was fairly positive and I think a lot of valuable things were communicated. The room was about half and half residents and non-residents with a mix of cyclists among both groups.
>
> I saw Jon Maus there so Im sure he will have an article up on bikeportland with the particulars, but Ill give my impressions and what I thought the highlights were.
>
> The meeting got off to a rather technical start with an overview of the existing laws regarding bicycling. I appreciated that Mark Ginsberg just cut to the chase and said 'really, the reason we are all here is regarding questions about passing on a double yellow line' alluding to the ongoing tensions between cyclists and one particular Skyline resident, Scott Wheeler. You can read up about it here
>
> http://bikeportland.org/2011/08/19/on-rock-creek-road-an-openly-hostile-road-user-galvanizes-the-community-57963
>
> Scott was there, and interrupted Mark several times (in violation of the rules we all agreed upon at the start of the meeting) and generally kept insisting that bikes are required by law to pull off the road anytime they are approached from behind by a vehicle and there is a double yellow line. It was unfortunate that he didnt seem interested in the opinions of either Mark or the Sherrif (I dont recall his name) who was on the panel with Mark. His wife was there as well and seemed to be insinuating in her questions to the panel that cyclists should be held responsible if a car attempts to pass and causes an accident. She mentioned they have a 16yr old who is learning to drive and "doesnt have the best judgement yet" So, be careful out there.
>
> Again, those are my impressions. Im disappointed but not surprised that Scott reacted in that way, given what Id heard of him, but at least he showed up. Brie (who reported Scott in the article above) took a turn speaking and called Scott out on what he did to her in a factual and eloquent way to thunderous applause. It takes a lot of nerve to stand up to someone who has tried to run you off the road repeatedly in a room full of people. She pointed out that he himself was violating traffic laws (excessive use of horn) in his attempt at vigilante justice in running her off the road.
>
> A lot of people asked for clarification on laws or even just greater understanding of why cyclists behave as they do. Several people gave examples of why a cyclist may need to ride in the middle of the road or be unable to yield in certain situations. One resident asked what is the best way to warn a cyclist when approaching from behind. And another resident mentioned 'the people here feel like they are being abused' when speaking about some of the rampant hostility in the neighborhood to cyclists. Points were made about long pace lines being just as difficult to pass as people riding several abreast which is a good thing to keep in mind when doing group rides. One woman said she is impeded up to 5 times a day by cyclists while driving her car in the area. Thats something I hadnt considered; for someone whos job requires them to drive along Skyline all day i can see how cyclists could be a big impact.
>
> Team Crank should be expecting a communication from Kenji, who stood up and said he would make sure to communicate to every team how to ride courteously. He said "ill be honest, there are some cyclists that are just jerks, and I cant do anything about that."
>
> One resident shared that in 20 years of living and riding on Skyline she had never encountered an aggressive driver. She called for us all to remember what fantastic place we live in and that we are all human beings sharing the road together. I sat next to a guy Id ridden with once before who related his tale of being run off the road on West Union last summer. So clearly we all have very different experiences.
>
> I was glad for the dialogue, but I thought there was a lack on 2 points. The primary one being really hearing people. I felt like we could have had a better discussion, particularly with Scott, if we had gone into the space of why people feel so hostile. Some of it came out as being detained behind bikes, which for residents of the area can occur several times a day, but i think what is really needed is more 1 on 1 discussions with people who are particularly hostile to understand what they are really needing. It was clear from the interaction with Scott that laws are subject to interpretation and simply stating the law is not sufficient to change hearts and minds. People really need to be heard and have their needs understood and met.
>
> The other thing I thought was lacking, or that concerns me, is that as you would expect the cooperative people were mostly the ones in the room. I think there are many that stayed home that have a lot of hostility towards sharing the road, be they cyclists or car drivers. Several Skyline residents commented that they had been in awkward positions, as both residents and cyclists, among neighbors that are very angry about cycling in the area. Clearly there is much hostility and that is a real danger to everyone.
>
> So the takeaway for me was to be more conscientious when riding out there. Its easy to get taken with the views or in chatting with friends but we are sharing the road with cars and need to be conscientious about that. I drive out there too but I think Im a fairly courteous driver to cyclists ;) Its not that I dont pay attention when Im on my bike, but I think I could do a better job.
>
> Jenn
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Jennifer Leonard

Hi OBRAland

I sent the following report to my Team Crank teammates and was encouraged
to send it here, so if youre interested in one person's perspective here ya
go!

I was there for most of the meeting, it was from 7-9 and I stayed till
about 8:30. The overall mood of the meeting was fairly positive and I
think a lot of valuable things were communicated. The room was about half
and half residents and non-residents with a mix of cyclists among both
groups.

I saw Jon Maus there so Im sure he will have an article up on bikeportland
with the particulars, but Ill give my impressions and what I thought the
highlights were.

The meeting got off to a rather technical start with an overview of the
existing laws regarding bicycling. I appreciated that Mark Ginsberg just
cut to the chase and said 'really, the reason we are all here is regarding
questions about passing on a double yellow line' alluding to the ongoing
tensions between cyclists and one particular Skyline resident, Scott
Wheeler. You can read up about it here

*
http://bikeportland.org/2011/08/19/on-rock-creek-road-an-openly-hostile-road-user-galvanizes-the-community-57963

*Scott was there, and interrupted Mark several times (in violation of the
rules we all agreed upon at the start of the meeting) and generally kept
insisting that bikes are required by law to pull off the road anytime they
are approached from behind by a vehicle and there is a double yellow line.
It was unfortunate that he didnt seem interested in the opinions of either
Mark or the Sherrif (I dont recall his name) who was on the panel with
Mark. His wife was there as well and seemed to be insinuating in her
questions to the panel that cyclists should be held responsible if a car
attempts to pass and causes an accident. She mentioned they have a 16yr old
who is learning to drive and "doesnt have the best judgement yet" So, be
careful out there.

Again, those are my impressions. Im disappointed but not surprised that
Scott reacted in that way, given what Id heard of him, but at least he
showed up. Brie (who reported Scott in the article above) took a turn
speaking and called Scott out on what he did to her in a factual and
eloquent way to thunderous applause. It takes a lot of nerve to stand up
to someone who has tried to run you off the road repeatedly in a room full
of people. She pointed out that he himself was violating traffic laws
(excessive use of horn) in his attempt at vigilante justice in running her
off the road.

A lot of people asked for clarification on laws or even just greater
understanding of why cyclists behave as they do. Several people gave
examples of why a cyclist may need to ride in the middle of the road or be
unable to yield in certain situations. One resident asked what is the best
way to warn a cyclist when approaching from behind. And another resident
mentioned 'the people here feel like they are being abused' when speaking
about some of the rampant hostility in the neighborhood to cyclists. Points
were made about long pace lines being just as difficult to pass as people
riding several abreast which is a good thing to keep in mind when doing
group rides. One woman said she is impeded up to 5 times a day by cyclists
while driving her car in the area. Thats something I hadnt considered; for
someone whos job requires them to drive along Skyline all day i can see how
cyclists could be a big impact.

Team Crank should be expecting a communication from Kenji, who stood up and
said he would make sure to communicate to every team how to ride
courteously. He said "ill be honest, there are some cyclists that are just
jerks, and I cant do anything about that."

One resident shared that in 20 years of living and riding on Skyline she
had never encountered an aggressive driver. She called for us all to
remember what fantastic place we live in and that we are all human beings
sharing the road together. I sat next to a guy Id ridden with once before
who related his tale of being run off the road on West Union last summer.
So clearly we all have very different experiences.

I was glad for the dialogue, but I thought there was a lack on 2 points.
The primary one being really hearing people. I felt like we could have had
a better discussion, particularly with Scott, if we had gone into the space
of why people feel so hostile. Some of it came out as being detained
behind bikes, which for residents of the area can occur several times a
day, but i think what is really needed is more 1 on 1 discussions with
people who are particularly hostile to understand what they are really
needing. It was clear from the interaction with Scott that laws are
subject to interpretation and simply stating the law is not sufficient to
change hearts and minds. People really need to be heard and have their
needs understood and met.

The other thing I thought was lacking, or that concerns me, is that as you
would expect the cooperative people were mostly the ones in the room. I
think there are many that stayed home that have a lot of hostility towards
sharing the road, be they cyclists or car drivers. Several Skyline
residents commented that they had been in awkward positions, as both
residents and cyclists, among neighbors that are very angry about cycling
in the area. Clearly there is much hostility and that is a real danger to
everyone.

So the takeaway for me was to be more conscientious when riding out there.
Its easy to get taken with the views or in chatting with friends but we are
sharing the road with cars and need to be conscientious about that. I
drive out there too but I think Im a fairly courteous driver to cyclists
;) Its not that I dont pay attention when Im on my bike, but I think I
could do a better job.

Jenn