Re: Lawyer Ride/Skyline

T. Kenji Sugahara

2011-11-12

Nail. Head.

Thank you.

There's a group of us working on some suggestions so stay tuned.
Possibly looking at some media work on this too (beyond just the
Portland area).

Bottom line: don't be a jerk. There will always be jerk drivers,
jerk cyclists and plain old jerks. That doesn't mean you need to be
one.

As a side note: I met a really nice lady who lives out on Skyline.
There's an old church- which is no longer a church but a residence.
She lives there. Please don't piss in her yard. I've asked her to
give me descriptions of kits if that happens. If it's one we
recognize they'll be publicly shamed.

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Larry C. wrote:
> A little courtesy on the part of cyclists would go a long way toward appeasing the anger of many motorists.


Larry C.

2011-11-12

A little courtesy on the part of cyclists would go a long way toward appeasing the anger of many motorists. I can understand their frustration when cyclists do not acknowledge their presence and make no effort or gesture to share the road. For example, when the lawyer ride regroups at the top of Greenleaf, I've observed riders completely blocking the intersection with Skyline and when a motorist approaches, often they make no effort to move to the side but instead continue to casually chat with each other, completely ignoring the driver. If I were the driver, I'd be upset too. Unfortunately, all it takes is a few bad examples to incite the ire of a motorist towards all cyclists. I'm sure there is some group psychology at play with a dilution of responsibility in a large group like the lawyer ride, but it is up to each of us to set a good example, even if many drivers do not.


Robert Burney

2011-11-12

Will,

I do not know if you were at the meeting, but the subject of honking of
horns was addressed.

One of the local homeowners asked, very politely, how a motorist should
alert a cyclist that the car is approaching. She did not imply that the car
would be too close, just that she wanted to let the cyclist know that she
was back there. Several of us suggested that a brief tap on the horn would
be a good solution.

Many cyclists seem to be unaware of cars behind them. Some cyclists listen
to music while they ride and this obscures the sounds coming from behind.
Perhaps there is enough wind noise that the cyclist does not hear; perhaps
the cyclist is lost in thought, or talking to a friend.

I am surprised you are surprised that motorists are inconvenienced by
cyclists. On nearly every group ride I have attended in the last 30 years,
riders have taken at least half of the lane, even when riding two abreast.
I have noticed that many cyclists weave a bit as they ride, or move the bars
in an arc when they stand to climb. That weaving, or the arc when standing
takes much more room than 18 inches. Would you be comfortable if a motorist
passed you 24 inches from the fog line? That is 6 inches more than your
average cyclist.

The example of Cavendish is correct: in a race he can pass lots of riders.
He can also bump riders and cause season ending crashes for them as happened
at the Tour de Suisse in 2010. Hauser and Boonen were out of action for
months after that accident. Do you advocate for cyclists bumping cars or
for cars bumping cyclists? It is very common in bunch sprints for the
riders to bump each other to create room to move forward through 100 guys.
The fact that a cyclist can pass others is not evidence that a car can
safely pass those same cyclists. Have you even ridden Bridge Pedal? A
skilled racer may be able to pass those cyclists, but the riders being
passed may not like the way they were passed. I have had trouble getting
past riders who were taking up far more room than they should by riding side
by side: 12 feet instead of 5 feet. I see this same behavior from many club
riders and some racers.

As several have already said on this list, the goal is to co-exist with the
other road users. As a rider and a driver, I am frequently appalled by the
inattention of drivers and riders, as well as their disregard of the laws
and common courtesy. Yes, drivers should be more patient. So should riders
who roll through stop signs because they do not want to put out the effort
to stop and start.

The cyclists and residents I spoke with after the Skyline meeting thought it
was a good meeting and a good start to finding a solution for co-existence
on the roads. One of the Skyline residents commented that it is not the
first rider or even the first few groups of riders that cause consternation.
Rather, it is the steady stream of riders throughout the day that slow her
commute many times in a single day. She made a good point that many of us
had not considered.

I encourage all of us, as cyclist and as motorists to be attentive to our
surroundings and to be courteous to the other road users.

Robert

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Robert Burney, JD

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From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Catlin, Wil
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 11:26 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Lawyer Ride/Skyline

How about this: if a driver needs to alert you with a horn that they're too
close, MAYBE THEY'RE JUST TOO CLOSE!

Our two-person paceline got that little honk from a woman speeding down the
Skyline S curves while talking on the phone yesterday morning, even though
we were exceeding the speed limit by about 5mph ourselves.

Actually, I'm always a bit surprised to hear of drivers being inconvenienced
by cyclists. Bikes are about 18 inches wide. We don't take up much space. A
person can fairly easily pass 100 cyclists strewn out on the road - we watch
Cavendish do it all the time. Hell, you might pass 1,000 in the bridge pedal
if you accidentally slept in.

The real issue is that people are choosing to try to pass bicycles WITH
CARS. Duh! If folks elect to move around in two ton metal/composite
appendages that are roughly the size of third-world duplexes, then yeah - it
might get dicey trying to maneuver out there. Go figure. But don't blame it
on the bikes. And if the cumbersome nature of those vehicles mean that
drivers are stuck moving at, gasp, 18 miles per hour for while, at least
they can enjoy climate control, lumbar cushions, and the ranting, anti-bike
radio personality of their choice.

In truth (but with medical exceptions), drivers are inconvenienced by their
own insistence on the convenience of driving. I'm continually shaken up by
the sheer number of people with perfectly functioning cardio-respiratory
systems and intact limbs who elect to move around in cars. It's rather
mind-blowing. And if we're ever going to get them out of those cars, driving
had better get a whole lot LESS convenient. Folks need to reach for their
keys in the morning and say, shyyiiit - is it really worth the hassle of
queuing up in the few dedicated personal vehicle lanes while everyone else
is flying by on bikes and in busses?

Of course, then they'll just elect to hop on their Trek 'Morning Tadassana
Commuter Townies' and we'll be yelling at them to hold their F****ing lines
as they weave around trying to get over the little Hawthorne bridge rise, or
cut across traffic to pull into the latest Starbikes 'ride through' express
espresso window...


eric aldinger

2011-11-11

And we now have the Scott Wheeler of cycling, sans the automitive weapon.

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:31 PM, wrote:

> The fact is we are sharing the road with cars. While we can all dream
> about a car-less society that isn't our reality. So, our job is as Susan
> puts it, SHARE, don't assume a righteous stance and crow about how cool you
> are.
>
> 3641 SW 52nd Place, Portland Oregon, 97221
> 503-422-1239
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Susan Otcenas"
> *To: *obra@list.obra.org
> *Sent: *Friday, November 11, 2011 12:11:19 PM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [OBRA Chat] Lawyer Ride/Skyline
>
>
> >>Well said.
> No, it's not. If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the
> problem. Attitudes like the one expressed below are precisely why
> motorists get so upset with cyclists. And sadly, people like Scott Wheeler
> take out those frustrations on ALL cyclists, including the majority of us
> who share the road.
>
> Yes, SHARE. It's one of the first things we are taught as children. How
> to share with others. How sad that it's a skill that seems to have been
> forgotten by too many motorists and cyclists alike.
>
> Susan
>
> ***********************************************
> Susan Otcenas
> Team Estrogen, Inc.
> www.TeamEstrogen.com
> 877-310-4592
> ***********************************************
> *Follow our TE fan page on Facebook!*
> *Look for "teamestrogen.com"*
> ***********************************************
>
>
> Well said.
>
> Joey
>
>
>
> How about this: if a driver needs to alert you with a horn that they're
> too close, MAYBE THEY'RE JUST TOO CLOSE!
>
> Our two-person paceline got that little honk from a woman speeding down
> the Skyline S curves while talking on the phone yesterday morning, even
> though we were exceeding the speed limit by about 5mph ourselves.
>
> Actually, I'm always a bit surprised to hear of drivers being
> inconvenienced by cyclists. Bikes are about 18 inches wide. We don't take
> up much space. A person can fairly easily pass 100 cyclists strewn out on
> the road - we watch Cavendish do it all the time. Hell, you might pass
> 1,000 in the bridge pedal if you accidentally slept in.
>
> The real issue is that people are choosing to try to pass bicycles WITH
> CARS. Duh! If folks elect to move around in two ton metal/composite
> appendages that are roughly the size of third-world duplexes, then yeah -
> it might get dicey trying to maneuver out there. Go figure. But don't blame
> it on the bikes. And if the cumbersome nature of those vehicles mean that
> drivers are stuck moving at, gasp, 18 miles per hour for while, at least
> they can enjoy climate control, lumbar cushions, and the ranting, anti-bike
> radio personality of their choice.
>
> *In truth (but with medical exceptions), drivers are inconvenienced by
> their own insistence on the convenience of driving*. I'm continually
> shaken up by the sheer number of people with perfectly functioning
> cardio-respiratory systems and intact limbs who elect to move around in
> cars. It's rather mind-blowing. And if we're ever going to get them out of
> those cars, driving had better get a whole lot LESS convenient. Folks need
> to reach for their keys in the morning and say, shyyiiit - is it really
> worth the hassle of queuing up in the few dedicated personal vehicle lanes
> while everyone else is flying by on bikes and in busses?
>
> Of course, then they'll just elect to hop on their Trek
> 'Morning Tadassana Commuter Townies' and we'll be yelling at them to hold
> their F****ing lines as they weave around trying to get over the little
> Hawthorne bridge rise, or cut across traffic to pull into the latest
> Starbikes 'ride through' express espresso window...
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing listobra@list.obra.orghttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Eric Aldinger


johnfforbes@comcast.net

2011-11-11

The fact is we are sharing the road with cars. While we can all dream about a car-less society that isn't our reality. So, our job is as Susan puts it, SHARE, don't assume a righteous stance and crow about how cool you are.

3641 SW 52nd Place, Portland Oregon, 97221
503-422-1239

----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan Otcenas"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 12:11:19 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Lawyer Ride/Skyline

>> Well said.

No, it's not. If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Attitudes like the one expressed below are precisely why motorists get so upset with cyclists. And sadly, people like Scott Wheeler take out those frustrations on ALL cyclists, including the majority of us who share the road.

Yes, SHARE. It's one of the first things we are taught as children. How to share with others. How sad that it's a skill that seems to have been forgotten by too many motorists and cyclists alike.

Susan

***********************************************
Susan Otcenas
Team Estrogen, Inc.
www.TeamEstrogen.com
877-310-4592
***********************************************

Follow our TE fan page on Facebook!
Look for "teamestrogen.com"
***********************************************

Well said.

Joey

How about this: if a driver needs to alert you with a horn that they're too close, MAYBE THEY'RE JUST TOO CLOSE!

Our two-person paceline got that little honk from a woman speeding down the Skyline S curves while talking on the phone yesterday morning, even though we were exceeding the speed limit by about 5mph ourselves.

Actually, I'm always a bit surprised to hear of drivers being inconvenienced by cyclists. Bikes are about 18 inches wide. We don't take up much space. A person can fairly easily pass 100 cyclists strewn out on the road - we watch Cavendish do it all the time. Hell, you might pass 1,000 in the bridge pedal if you accidentally slept in.

The real issue is that people are choosing to try to pass bicycles WITH CARS. Duh! If folks elect to move around in two ton metal/composite appendages that are roughly the size of third-world duplexes, then yeah - it might get dicey trying to maneuver out there. Go figure. But don't blame it on the bikes. And if the cumbersome nature of those vehicles mean that drivers are stuck moving at, gasp, 18 miles per hour for while, at least they can enjoy climate control, lumbar cushions, and the ranting, anti-bike radio personality of their choice.

In truth (but with medical exceptions), drivers are inconvenienced by their own insistence on the convenience of driving . I'm continually shaken up by the sheer number of people with perfectly functioning cardio-respiratory systems and intact limbs who elect to move around in cars. It's rather mind-blowing. And if we're ever going to get them out of those cars, driving had better get a whole lot LESS convenient. Folks need to reach for their keys in the morning and say, shyyiiit - is it really worth the hassle of queuing up in the few dedicated personal vehicle lanes while everyone else is flying by on bikes and in busses?

Of course, then they'll just elect to hop on their Trek 'Morning Tadassana Commuter Townies' and we'll be yelling at them to hold their F****ing lines as they weave around trying to get over the little Hawthorne bridge rise, or cut across traffic to pull into the latest Starbikes 'ride through' express espresso window...

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Brandon

2011-11-11

It's not just cyclists/drivers, it's human nature to not share. Hence why we have wars, we can do our best to share the road but the reality is we will always have enemies. That is why when road rage happens you have to do your best to avoid flicking them off and just smile. (which I am not good at). If I had my way when ever some ass tried to pinch me at a stop light or push me off the road I'd bar end their car (especially the old f&$ks in sports cars). But I don't, so we the cyclists look like the bigger more grown up group. (which is funny since most roadies tip the scales at 145)
My 2 abe's (aka cents)
BM

On Nov 11, 2011, at 1:11 PM, "Susan Otcenas" wrote:

>
> >>Well said.
> No, it's not. If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Attitudes like the one expressed below are precisely why motorists get so upset with cyclists. And sadly, people like Scott Wheeler take out those frustrations on ALL cyclists, including the majority of us who share the road.
>
> Yes, SHARE. It's one of the first things we are taught as children. How to share with others. How sad that it's a skill that seems to have been forgotten by too many motorists and cyclists alike.
>
> Susan
>
> ***********************************************
> Susan Otcenas
> Team Estrogen, Inc.
> www.TeamEstrogen.com
> 877-310-4592
> ***********************************************
> Follow our TE fan page on Facebook!
> Look for "teamestrogen.com"
> ***********************************************
>
>
> Well said.
>
> Joey
>>
>>
>> How about this: if a driver needs to alert you with a horn that they're too close, MAYBE THEY'RE JUST TOO CLOSE!
>>
>> Our two-person paceline got that little honk from a woman speeding down the Skyline S curves while talking on the phone yesterday morning, even though we were exceeding the speed limit by about 5mph ourselves.
>>
>> Actually, I'm always a bit surprised to hear of drivers being inconvenienced by cyclists. Bikes are about 18 inches wide. We don't take up much space. A person can fairly easily pass 100 cyclists strewn out on the road - we watch Cavendish do it all the time. Hell, you might pass 1,000 in the bridge pedal if you accidentally slept in.
>>
>> The real issue is that people are choosing to try to pass bicycles WITH CARS. Duh! If folks elect to move around in two ton metal/composite appendages that are roughly the size of third-world duplexes, then yeah - it might get dicey trying to maneuver out there. Go figure. But don't blame it on the bikes. And if the cumbersome nature of those vehicles mean that drivers are stuck moving at, gasp, 18 miles per hour for while, at least they can enjoy climate control, lumbar cushions, and the ranting, anti-bike radio personality of their choice.
>>
>> In truth (but with medical exceptions), drivers are inconvenienced by their own insistence on the convenience of driving. I'm continually shaken up by the sheer number of people with perfectly functioning cardio-respiratory systems and intact limbs who elect to move around in cars. It's rather mind-blowing. And if we're ever going to get them out of those cars, driving had better get a whole lot LESS convenient. Folks need to reach for their keys in the morning and say, shyyiiit - is it really worth the hassle of queuing up in the few dedicated personal vehicle lanes while everyone else is flying by on bikes and in busses?
>>
>> Of course, then they'll just elect to hop on their Trek 'Morning Tadassana Commuter Townies' and we'll be yelling at them to hold their F****ing lines as they weave around trying to get over the little Hawthorne bridge rise, or cut across traffic to pull into the latest Starbikes 'ride through' express espresso window...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Erik Long

2011-11-11


Yeah, nice. Everybody of leagal driving age who's never had a driver's license can start throwing rocks from overpasses any time, now.


If you were a driver, you'd be Scott Wheeler.

From: mace6045@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 13:12:53 -0700
To: Wil.Catlin@nike.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Lawyer Ride/Skyline

Nice rant!

BM

On Nov 11, 2011, at 12:25 PM, "Catlin, Wil" wrote:


How about this: if a driver needs to alert you with a horn that they're too close, MAYBE THEY'RE JUST TOO CLOSE!

Our two-person paceline got that little honk from a woman speeding down the Skyline S curves while talking on the phone yesterday morning, even though we were exceeding the speed limit by about 5mph ourselves.

Actually, I'm always a bit surprised to hear of drivers being inconvenienced by cyclists. Bikes are about 18 inches wide. We don't take up much space. A person can fairly easily pass 100 cyclists strewn out on the road - we watch Cavendish do it all the time. Hell, you might pass 1,000 in the bridge pedal if you accidentally slept in.

The real issue is that people are choosing to try to pass bicycles WITH CARS. Duh! If folks elect to move around in two ton metal/composite appendages that are roughly the size of third-world duplexes, then yeah - it might get dicey trying to maneuver out there. Go figure. But don't blame it on the bikes. And if the cumbersome nature of those vehicles mean that drivers are stuck moving at, gasp, 18 miles per hour for while, at least they can enjoy climate control, lumbar cushions, and the ranting, anti-bike radio personality of their choice.

In truth (but with medical exceptions), drivers are inconvenienced by their own insistence on the convenience of driving. I'm continually shaken up by the sheer number of people with perfectly functioning cardio-respiratory systems and intact limbs who elect to move around in cars. It's rather mind-blowing. And if we're ever going to get them out of those cars, driving had better get a whole lot LESS convenient. Folks need to reach for their keys in the morning and say, shyyiiit - is it really worth the hassle of queuing up in the few dedicated personal vehicle lanes while everyone else is flying by on bikes and in busses?

Of course, then they'll just elect to hop on their Trek 'Morning Tadassana Commuter Townies' and we'll be yelling at them to hold their F****ing lines as they weave around trying to get over the little Hawthorne bridge rise, or cut across traffic to pull into the latest Starbikes 'ride through' express espresso window...

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Brandon

2011-11-11

Nice rant!

BM

On Nov 11, 2011, at 12:25 PM, "Catlin, Wil" wrote:

>
>
> How about this: if a driver needs to alert you with a horn that they're too close, MAYBE THEY'RE JUST TOO CLOSE!
>
> Our two-person paceline got that little honk from a woman speeding down the Skyline S curves while talking on the phone yesterday morning, even though we were exceeding the speed limit by about 5mph ourselves.
>
> Actually, I'm always a bit surprised to hear of drivers being inconvenienced by cyclists. Bikes are about 18 inches wide. We don't take up much space. A person can fairly easily pass 100 cyclists strewn out on the road - we watch Cavendish do it all the time. Hell, you might pass 1,000 in the bridge pedal if you accidentally slept in.
>
> The real issue is that people are choosing to try to pass bicycles WITH CARS. Duh! If folks elect to move around in two ton metal/composite appendages that are roughly the size of third-world duplexes, then yeah - it might get dicey trying to maneuver out there. Go figure. But don't blame it on the bikes. And if the cumbersome nature of those vehicles mean that drivers are stuck moving at, gasp, 18 miles per hour for while, at least they can enjoy climate control, lumbar cushions, and the ranting, anti-bike radio personality of their choice.
>
> In truth (but with medical exceptions), drivers are inconvenienced by their own insistence on the convenience of driving. I'm continually shaken up by the sheer number of people with perfectly functioning cardio-respiratory systems and intact limbs who elect to move around in cars. It's rather mind-blowing. And if we're ever going to get them out of those cars, driving had better get a whole lot LESS convenient. Folks need to reach for their keys in the morning and say, shyyiiit - is it really worth the hassle of queuing up in the few dedicated personal vehicle lanes while everyone else is flying by on bikes and in busses?
>
> Of course, then they'll just elect to hop on their Trek 'Morning Tadassana Commuter Townies' and we'll be yelling at them to hold their F****ing lines as they weave around trying to get over the little Hawthorne bridge rise, or cut across traffic to pull into the latest Starbikes 'ride through' express espresso window...
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Susan Otcenas

2011-11-11


>>Well said.

No, it's not. If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the
problem. Attitudes like the one expressed below are precisely why
motorists get so upset with cyclists. And sadly, people like Scott
Wheeler take out those frustrations on ALL cyclists, including the
majority of us who share the road.

Yes, SHARE. It's one of the first things we are taught as children.
How to share with others. How sad that it's a skill that seems to
have been forgotten by too many motorists and cyclists alike.

Susan

***********************************************
Susan Otcenas
Team Estrogen, Inc.
www.TeamEstrogen.com
877-310-4592
***********************************************
Follow our TE fan page on Facebook!
Look for "teamestrogen.com"
***********************************************


Well said.

Joey

How about this: if a driver needs to alert you with a horn that
they're too close, MAYBE THEY'RE JUST TOO CLOSE!

Our two-person paceline got that little honk from a woman
speeding down the Skyline S curves while talking on the phone yesterday
morning, even though we were exceeding the speed limit by about 5mph
ourselves.

Actually, I'm always a bit surprised to hear of drivers being
inconvenienced by cyclists. Bikes are about 18 inches wide. We don't
take up much space. A person can fairly easily pass 100 cyclists strewn
out on the road - we watch Cavendish do it all the time. Hell, you might
pass 1,000 in the bridge pedal if you accidentally slept in.

The real issue is that people are choosing to try to pass
bicycles WITH CARS. Duh! If folks elect to move around in two ton
metal/composite appendages that are roughly the size of third-world
duplexes, then yeah - it might get dicey trying to maneuver out there.
Go figure. But don't blame it on the bikes. And if the cumbersome nature
of those vehicles mean that drivers are stuck moving at, gasp, 18 miles
per hour for while, at least they can enjoy climate control, lumbar
cushions, and the ranting, anti-bike radio personality of their choice.

In truth (but with medical exceptions), drivers are
inconvenienced by their own insistence on the convenience of driving.
I'm continually shaken up by the sheer number of people with perfectly
functioning cardio-respiratory systems and intact limbs who elect to
move around in cars. It's rather mind-blowing. And if we're ever going
to get them out of those cars, driving had better get a whole lot LESS
convenient. Folks need to reach for their keys in the morning and say,
shyyiiit - is it really worth the hassle of queuing up in the few
dedicated personal vehicle lanes while everyone else is flying by on
bikes and in busses?

Of course, then they'll just elect to hop on their Trek 'Morning
Tadassana Commuter Townies' and we'll be yelling at them to hold their
F****ing lines as they weave around trying to get over the little
Hawthorne bridge rise, or cut across traffic to pull into the latest
Starbikes 'ride through' express espresso window...




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Joey French

2011-11-11

Well said.

Joey
>
> How about this: if a driver needs to alert you with a horn that
> they're too close, MAYBE THEY'RE JUST TOO CLOSE!
>
> Our two-person paceline got that little honk from a woman speeding
> down the Skyline S curves while talking on the phone yesterday
> morning, even though we were exceeding the speed limit by about 5mph
> ourselves.
>
> Actually, I'm always a bit surprised to hear of drivers being
> inconvenienced by cyclists. Bikes are about 18 inches wide. We don't
> take up much space. A person can fairly easily pass 100 cyclists
> strewn out on the road - we watch Cavendish do it all the time. Hell,
> you might pass 1,000 in the bridge pedal if you accidentally slept in.
>
> The real issue is that people are choosing to try to pass bicycles
> WITH CARS. Duh! If folks elect to move around in two ton
> metal/composite appendages that are roughly the size of third-world
> duplexes, then yeah - it might get dicey trying to maneuver out there.
> Go figure. But don't blame it on the bikes. And if the cumbersome
> nature of those vehicles mean that drivers are stuck moving at, gasp,
> 18 miles per hour for while, at least they can enjoy climate
> control, lumbar cushions, and the ranting, anti-bike radio personality
> of their choice.
>
> _In truth (but with medical exceptions), drivers are inconvenienced by
> their own insistence on the convenience of driving_. I'm continually
> shaken up by the sheer number of people with perfectly functioning
> cardio-respiratory systems and intact limbs who elect to move around
> in cars. It's rather mind-blowing. And if we're ever going to get them
> out of those cars, driving had better get a whole lot LESS convenient.
> Folks need to reach for their keys in the morning and say, shyyiiit -
> is it really worth the hassle of queuing up in the few dedicated
> personal vehicle lanes while everyone else is flying by on bikes and
> in busses?
>
> Of course, then they'll just elect to hop on their Trek
> 'Morning Tadassana Commuter Townies' and we'll be yelling at them to
> hold their F****ing lines as they weave around trying to get over the
> little Hawthorne bridge rise, or cut across traffic to pull into the
> latest Starbikes 'ride through' express espresso window...
>
>
>
>
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Catlin, Wil

2011-11-11

How about this: if a driver needs to alert you with a horn that they're too close, MAYBE THEY'RE JUST TOO CLOSE!

Our two-person paceline got that little honk from a woman speeding down the Skyline S curves while talking on the phone yesterday morning, even though we were exceeding the speed limit by about 5mph ourselves.

Actually, I'm always a bit surprised to hear of drivers being inconvenienced by cyclists. Bikes are about 18 inches wide. We don't take up much space. A person can fairly easily pass 100 cyclists strewn out on the road - we watch Cavendish do it all the time. Hell, you might pass 1,000 in the bridge pedal if you accidentally slept in.

The real issue is that people are choosing to try to pass bicycles WITH CARS. Duh! If folks elect to move around in two ton metal/composite appendages that are roughly the size of third-world duplexes, then yeah - it might get dicey trying to maneuver out there. Go figure. But don't blame it on the bikes. And if the cumbersome nature of those vehicles mean that drivers are stuck moving at, gasp, 18 miles per hour for while, at least they can enjoy climate control, lumbar cushions, and the ranting, anti-bike radio personality of their choice.

In truth (but with medical exceptions), drivers are inconvenienced by their own insistence on the convenience of driving. I'm continually shaken up by the sheer number of people with perfectly functioning cardio-respiratory systems and intact limbs who elect to move around in cars. It's rather mind-blowing. And if we're ever going to get them out of those cars, driving had better get a whole lot LESS convenient. Folks need to reach for their keys in the morning and say, shyyiiit - is it really worth the hassle of queuing up in the few dedicated personal vehicle lanes while everyone else is flying by on bikes and in busses?

Of course, then they'll just elect to hop on their Trek 'Morning Tadassana Commuter Townies' and we'll be yelling at them to hold their F****ing lines as they weave around trying to get over the little Hawthorne bridge rise, or cut across traffic to pull into the latest Starbikes 'ride through' express espresso window...