Dave Campbell

KARL Maxon. At one point holding the National 40k record at 48 FLAT. When
aero was cow horns, double discs and a "plunging" steel frame! One time he
took us INTO the sprint at 40 mph. That ride had HUGE value to me, as did
the suffering on board rocketship Maxon.

DC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Scarich"
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 7:24 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Shootout

>I guess I'll have to disagree somewhat with Mike. I rode the Eugene
>Thursday Nighter hundreds of times and the Tucson Shootout a few times
>while on vacation. Yes, occasionally the Eugene ride had conflicts with
>drivers, but my recollection is that it was not all that often. Most of
>the time, we policed ourselves pretty well. My big disagreement with Mike
>is the value as a racing experience. I learned a lot about racing tactics,
>and my race fitness was really improved by these rides. In a place like
>Eugene which has few races, it gave me the opportunity to push myself
>beyond anything I had ever done before (think trying to hold Carl Maxon's
>wheel).
>
> Steve Scarich
>
> PS For those youngsters, Carl rode for several years in the European
> peleton and won the U.S. Trial Championships more than once.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Jason A. Skelton

Bikeportland.org should be watched for various ride announcements, as well as obra listserv.

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android

Quinn Keogh

OK, thanks y'all for the input. It looks like there is in fact plenty of spirited riding going on in/around portland. However, it is a bit hard to find. There is an OBRA list of club rides ( http://www.obra.org/teams/rides.html ), which is very useful. I suggest that clubs and organizers help keep this list current by submitting accurate info to OBRA. Also, it should probably be displayed more prominently on the obra site.
Overall, I think what is appealing about a shootout is that it is race paced and open to all. It is cool that any rider/racer who visits Tucson knows about the shootout and can participate easily in a part of Tucson bike culture. When people visit Portland it would be nice if they could have a similar experience (not necessarily the semi-illegal, ego-fueled part, just some example of our unique and awesome racing culture). Most weekend racing occurs outside of portland, and weekday visitors would likely be intimidated by tabor/PIR. Overall, Portland's bike culture is about 2 lightyears ahead of anywhere else west of the Atlantic - thanks in large part to obra. While I would like to have an open, large race/ride, I think our roads and existing events make it unlikely. So, I'll just keep it among my friends, even though this maintains the annoyingly cliquish element of bike racing.
Check out the list if you want to find a ride. If you have a ride that isn't listed please alert the webmistress.
-Q

Don

Well said

T-Mobile, America's First Nationwide 4G Network
Sent by Samsung Mobile

Erik Long wrote:

>
>These rides always seem like a good idea.
>
>I lived and raced in Tucson for several years and spent many a Saturday morning on the famous Shootout (a required training ride on a team I raced with). That ride can be a good training tool, but it's completely illegal, no matter how you want to look at it. It's a 100-rider group racing on open roads with no permit, no rolling enclosure, no rules (no insurance). I've been on that ride at least once when it was headed off by Tucson P.D. and on many other occasions when Pileups took down a dozen riders or so, hospitalizing some. Just picture the most dangerous race you've ever seen at PIR - the Shootout is worse.
>
>Rides like the Shootout really do us no good. They make drivers hostile, injure numerous riders, and perpetuate the anti-bike bias in law enforcement. A weekly race series would serve Tucson much better. Fortunately, Portland already has racing almost every day of the week. Eugene, Bend, even Medford all have weekly races in the warm months.
>
>Let's support real bike racing and leave the Shootouts for the ego-driven hacks.
>
>
>
>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 09:09:26 -0800
>> From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shootout
>>
>> Be that as it may Mike makes a good point. The Tucson Shootout has had
>> it's share of conflict with local authorities (no doubt prompted by
>> complaints from some members of their community). One doesn't have to
>> use a lot of imagination to see the kind of problems a Portland version
>> might stir up.
>> I say be careful what you wish for.
>>
>> Rick Johnson
>> Bend Oregon
>>
>> * * *
>>
>> This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/14/2012 7:24 AM, Steve Scarich wrote:
>> > I guess I'll have to disagree somewhat with Mike. I rode the Eugene Thursday Nighter hundreds of times and the Tucson Shootout a few times while on vacation. Yes, occasionally the Eugene ride had conflicts with drivers, but my recollection is that it was not all that often. Most of the time, we policed ourselves pretty well. My big disagreement with Mike is the value as a racing experience. I learned a lot about racing tactics, and my race fitness was really improved by these rides. In a place like Eugene which has few races, it gave me the opportunity to push myself beyond anything I had ever done before (think trying to hold Carl Maxon's wheel).
>> >
>> > Steve Scarich
>> >
>> > PS For those youngsters, Carl rode for several years in the European peleton and won the U.S. Trial Championships more than once.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > OBRA mailing list
>> > obra@list.obra.org
>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Erik Long

These rides always seem like a good idea.

I lived and raced in Tucson for several years and spent many a Saturday morning on the famous Shootout (a required training ride on a team I raced with). That ride can be a good training tool, but it's completely illegal, no matter how you want to look at it. It's a 100-rider group racing on open roads with no permit, no rolling enclosure, no rules (no insurance). I've been on that ride at least once when it was headed off by Tucson P.D. and on many other occasions when Pileups took down a dozen riders or so, hospitalizing some. Just picture the most dangerous race you've ever seen at PIR - the Shootout is worse.

Rides like the Shootout really do us no good. They make drivers hostile, injure numerous riders, and perpetuate the anti-bike bias in law enforcement. A weekly race series would serve Tucson much better. Fortunately, Portland already has racing almost every day of the week. Eugene, Bend, even Medford all have weekly races in the warm months.

Let's support real bike racing and leave the Shootouts for the ego-driven hacks.

> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 09:09:26 -0800
> From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shootout
>
> Be that as it may Mike makes a good point. The Tucson Shootout has had
> it's share of conflict with local authorities (no doubt prompted by
> complaints from some members of their community). One doesn't have to
> use a lot of imagination to see the kind of problems a Portland version
> might stir up.
> I say be careful what you wish for.
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend Oregon
>
> * * *
>
> This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions
>
>
>
> On 1/14/2012 7:24 AM, Steve Scarich wrote:
> > I guess I'll have to disagree somewhat with Mike. I rode the Eugene Thursday Nighter hundreds of times and the Tucson Shootout a few times while on vacation. Yes, occasionally the Eugene ride had conflicts with drivers, but my recollection is that it was not all that often. Most of the time, we policed ourselves pretty well. My big disagreement with Mike is the value as a racing experience. I learned a lot about racing tactics, and my race fitness was really improved by these rides. In a place like Eugene which has few races, it gave me the opportunity to push myself beyond anything I had ever done before (think trying to hold Carl Maxon's wheel).
> >
> > Steve Scarich
> >
> > PS For those youngsters, Carl rode for several years in the European peleton and won the U.S. Trial Championships more than once.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Rick Johnson

Be that as it may Mike makes a good point. The Tucson Shootout has had
it's share of conflict with local authorities (no doubt prompted by
complaints from some members of their community). One doesn't have to
use a lot of imagination to see the kind of problems a Portland version
might stir up.
I say be careful what you wish for.

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions

On 1/14/2012 7:24 AM, Steve Scarich wrote:
> I guess I'll have to disagree somewhat with Mike. I rode the Eugene Thursday Nighter hundreds of times and the Tucson Shootout a few times while on vacation. Yes, occasionally the Eugene ride had conflicts with drivers, but my recollection is that it was not all that often. Most of the time, we policed ourselves pretty well. My big disagreement with Mike is the value as a racing experience. I learned a lot about racing tactics, and my race fitness was really improved by these rides. In a place like Eugene which has few races, it gave me the opportunity to push myself beyond anything I had ever done before (think trying to hold Carl Maxon's wheel).
>
> Steve Scarich
>
> PS For those youngsters, Carl rode for several years in the European peleton and won the U.S. Trial Championships more than once.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Andrew Springer

I would LOVE to see a shootout get started here in Portland. Though the shootout can be raced if inclined, there is a large enough group of varying fitness levels that everyone ends up in a group ride. If you are inclined to race, and get dropped, it provides a great deal of structure by being the same route at the same time each week. Riders can set goals and practice sections to stay with the big dogs a little further each week as they progress in fitness. In my experience riding The Shootout, I think it compliments organized racing very well. (free is always good) From a cycling community perspective, Portland cyclists could benefit greatly from a ride like the shootout. I have many friends in Tucson and am envious of the camaraderie they have, based in no small part to The Shootout.

Steve Scarich

I guess I'll have to disagree somewhat with Mike. I rode the Eugene Thursday Nighter hundreds of times and the Tucson Shootout a few times while on vacation. Yes, occasionally the Eugene ride had conflicts with drivers, but my recollection is that it was not all that often. Most of the time, we policed ourselves pretty well. My big disagreement with Mike is the value as a racing experience. I learned a lot about racing tactics, and my race fitness was really improved by these rides. In a place like Eugene which has few races, it gave me the opportunity to push myself beyond anything I had ever done before (think trying to hold Carl Maxon's wheel).

Steve Scarich

PS For those youngsters, Carl rode for several years in the European peleton and won the U.S. Trial Championships more than once.