Russell @ Upper Echelon

I've done the shootout and other similar rides in other cities - although
nothing really compares to the shootout. Portland will likely never have a
ride like the shootout. Many factors on why it won't happen here.

Our community would not support it for the obvious reasons of it being
illegal and not promoting cycling in a positive light. We have too many
options for good, legal competition to support something like this.
Although Portland gets behind other non-sanctioned and potentially risky
events on certain occasions, like the the Ronde or the Rapha race. But
those are different events. Also, the shootout leaves early to hit less
traffic. In Tucson, you can ride at 6 or 7am in the winter. Good luck
getting a group of riders to join you for a ride at 7am on Sundays in the
Winter around here. Tucson has less race option then we do. In Portland,
we race into December and start up in February. We have roughly 6-8 weeks
to do club/team rides in the winter. Most people enjoy this time of the
year for logging long miles in miserable weather as "team bonding". Not
sure why we enjoy this, but we do. And Quinn, of course you enjoy it! You
are at the front, drilling it with the handful of pro's that train in
Tucson in the Winter. I've done many training camps with clients in Tucson
and they all want to try to Shootout but I never take them. I enjoy it
too, but for most people it's a very dangerous ride and not something they
need. And it's not something Portland needs either.

But we do have good options. As mentioned, we host a group ride on Sundays
that can be quite spirited but obeys traffic laws and is safe. We have
tight rules on how the ride works so it is safe and fun for everyone but
still a challenging ride. Also, there are the Lawyer rides mid-day
mid-week, Tuesday Tualatin evening rides, and the Portland Velo Saturday
morning rides. So there are options out there.

RC

Russell Cree, DPT
Upper Echelon S
ports Medicine and Training
www.UpperEchelon.com
Phone: 503.501.8121
Twitter: RussellCree
*Train. Race. Live.*

Sarah Tisdale

FYI: "Shootout" races have been discussed on OBRA Chat before. Didn't go
over so well back then either...

12/10/2007
Interesting Story - A Cycling Phenomenon
http://obra.org/posts/40535

04/27/2008
Tucson Arizona: "Shootout" group ride bike crash caused by Police Officer
http://obra.org/posts/43326

12/16/2009
Unfortunate crash + Throwdown Leage
http://obra.org/posts/60804

On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Karsten Hagen wrote:

> I've done the shootout many times and can't think of any place in Oregon
> where that would work. It's fun, but gets a lot less fun when people are
> left bleeding and messed up by the side of the road in the middle of Mad
> Max country. It's complete chaos, until you get dropped. Then it's
> suddenly pretty peaceful.
>
> It doesn't do a lot to promote the image of cyclists.
>
>
>
> On Jan 14, 2012, at 04:49 PM, Jeremy wrote:
>
> Considering state law as dictated via
> http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/814.430 ,
> I've personally never witnessed any traffic violations after years of doing
> the Thursday nighter in Eugene. In addition, I've never observed a crash on
> that ride firsthand and only heard about one occurring on a single
> instance. One couldn't say the same thing about most sanctioned criteriums.
> That ride taught me more about racing and riding in fast groups than PIR or
> even the local Tuesday crit series ever could have, in a context where
> camaraderie and guidance are much more encouraged than in a pack of 3/4's
> all vying for a handful of upgrade points.
>
> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 4:41 PM, William Laubernds wrote:
>
>> Having been on the UEF ride many times, I would stress that I have never
>> seen anyone breaking traffic laws or riding illegally. Russell and other
>> riders would not tolerate that.
>>
>> After the first neutral lap, the ride can get spirited at times. Which
>> works well since the route travels on either out-and-backs or loops. Also,
>> if there are flats, the ride doesn't stop; that person just reverses the
>> loop to catch back on. Great winter training ride for anyone in the PDX
>> area that accommodates varying fitness levels. Large turn outs too.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 12:29 PM, wrote:
>>
>>> I think PDX has a shoot out style ride already every Sunday at UEF they
>>> meet and ride out HWY 30 to sauvies once they hit sauvies it gets fast and
>>> they then head out hwy 30 up a climb and head home. It's a total of 75
>>> miles if you get dropped then you can group up with others that have been
>>> as well, happens evey Sunday. Pretty sure it's just like the shoot out.
>>> Russell Cree can inform you more.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Mark Duff - President
>>> Veloforma, Inc.
>>> WHQ: 41991 NW Woollen Rd, Banks, OR 97106
>>> Mail: PO Box 185, Banks, OR 97106
>>> 503.789.6735
>>> www.veloforma.com
>>> www.twitter.com/veloforma
>>> www.corsaconcepts.com
>>>
>>> NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments are
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>>> 503.7896735 or reply email to the sender, and please delete the email
>>> and all attachments from your computer. Thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: OBRA Digest, Vol 73, Issue 14
>>> From: obra-request@list.obra.org
>>> Date: Sat, January 14, 2012 12:00 pm
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>>
>>> Send OBRA mailing list submissions to
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of OBRA digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. FS: Rolf Vigor SL wheelset-$450 (Adam Artner)
>>> 2. FS: Rolf Vigor SL wheelset-$450 (Adam Artner)
>>> 3. FS: Specialzed Crux Comp 54cm cyclocross (Rich Slingsby)
>>> 4. FS: roller, 1up trainer, krome (Jim Stuck)
>>> 5. FS: 2008 Felt F55 - $1100 (mace jc)
>>> 6. FS: New 2011 Cutter Carbon Cyclocross Frame - $600 (SE PDX)
>>> (Matt Lichtenfels)
>>> 7. FS: Yuba Mundo 2.0 $1k obo lots of extras (Brooke)
>>> 8. Portland Shootout (Quinn Keogh)
>>> 9. Re: Portland Shootout (Mike Murray)
>>> 10. Shootout (Steve Scarich)
>>> 11. Does anyone have? (Carl Hoefer)
>>> 12. Meet the Team Ride (Mark Adamski)
>>> 13. Re: Shootout (Andrew Springer)
>>> 14. Re: Shootout (Rick Johnson)
>>> 15. Re: Shootout (Erik Long)
>>> 16. One last plug! BTA fundraiser tonight!!!!
>>> (West coast Women's Cycling)
>>> 17. FS: Brand New Fuji SST 1.0 Frameset - 50cm (Jessica Kaplan)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 14:26:08 -0800
>>> From: Adam Artner
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Rolf Vigor SL wheelset-$450
>>> Message-ID: <4f10af802a7be_f7134008c635c118687@lizard.obra.org.mail>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>> For sale are my 2011 rolf prima vigor sl wheels. Good Shape, True rims,
>>> Roll smooth, good braking track. Only blemishes are from a mal-aligned
>>> brake pad and a scuff on a couple spokes. These are great wheels and need a
>>> home quick. Asking $450+shipping to wherever you are.
>>>
>>> Call (541)941-5888 or email adamartner@yahoo.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 14:28:16 -0800
>>> From: Adam Artner
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Rolf Vigor SL wheelset-$450
>>> Message-ID: <4f10b0006c11f_f7154008c635c12244@lizard.obra.org.mail>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>> Here's the CL ad with Photos:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/bik/2798561473.html
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 15:03:30 -0800 (PST)
>>> From: Rich Slingsby
>>> To: "obra@list.obra.org"
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Specialzed Crux Comp 54cm cyclocross
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <1326495810.22162.YahooMailNeo@web160506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> Specialized Crux comp cyclocross 54cm - $1000 (ne portland)
>>> ________________________________
>>> Date: 2012-01-09, 6:46PM PST
>>> Reply to:?your anonymous craigslist address will appear here
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> 2011Specialized Crux comp 54 cm cyclocross bike
>>> Fits 5'9"-5'10" ish sized person.
>>> Alloy E5 Frameset with tapered carbon forkset "( no brake shudder)
>>> SRAM apex components
>>> BB30 FSA gossamer crankset
>>> Roval wheelset
>>> Sram Apex rear der , Sram Apex front derailleur, Apex shifters brake
>>> levers.
>>> Carbon post. Very adjustable Specialized stem.
>>> Great cyclocross race bike , or do everything bike
>>> Bike is in excellent condition. 6 months since new.
>>> Thanks for looking
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/2781925381.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Rich
>>> 503-319-7679
>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 15:06:33 -0800
>>> From: Jim Stuck
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: roller, 1up trainer, krome
>>> Message-ID: <4f10b8f99886d_f7144008c635c540ee@lizard.obra.org.mail>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>> Travel Trac folding rollers, $80
>>> good shape, used lightly.
>>>
>>> 1up trainer, $175
>>> http://www.1upusa.com/bike_trainer.html
>>> super shape, made in the USA with a lifetime guarantee
>>>
>>> Krome Metropolis messenger bag, $80,
>>> Like new, used very little, red/black.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 16:13:06 -0800 (PST)
>>> From: mace jc
>>> To: "obra@list.obra.org"
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: 2008 Felt F55 - $1100
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <1326499986.10935.YahooMailNeo@web161802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> Still for sale.?
>>> 2008 Felt F55 for sale. Size 54cm (runs large, closer to a 55cm.).
>>> Excellent shape and very clean. Very few signs of wear.
>>> Raced a few times, never crashed. Has just never really fit all that
>>> well.
>>> Easton EA50 90mm. stem.
>>> Dura Ace 6600 10 speed. DA brakes. Easton Vista SL wheelset with new
>>> Vittoria Diamante Pro Lite tires.
>>> FSA carbon pro compact crankset (ISIS BB). 11-25 DA cassette.
>>> DA front and rear derailleurs. Newer big and small FSA rings.
>>> Carbon fork and tail. New and bar tape cables all around.
>>> $1100. Pretty firm on the price. Pics available upon request.
>>> OBRA folks, Feel free to bring shoes and cleats.
>>> Email with questions or PH: 503-347-8005.
>>> Better pics on request.
>>> ?
>>> Thanks for looking!? Jess
>>> ?
>>> http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/2789330119.html
>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 6
>>> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 17:00:12 -0800
>>> From: Matt Lichtenfels
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: New 2011 Cutter Carbon Cyclocross Frame -
>>> $600 (SE PDX)
>>> Message-ID:
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> Selling a new 2011 52cm Cutter Carbon Cyclocross Frame purchased earlier
>>> this year through www.realcyclist.com .Purchased for $1159 through the
>>> website. The new, never been built frame is full carbon and includes a
>>> carbon fork with uncut aluminum 1 1/8" steerer. I've added an integrated
>>> drop-in Ritchey WCS sealed headset and Shimano Pro front canti brake
>>> hangar
>>> that are included in the sale. The frame is cross-specific (53 cm
>>> effective
>>> TT) frame is super beefy, understated, and gorgeous. Must see to believe.
>>> Hate to see it go but traveling to much to take up cross. Now asking
>>> $600.
>>> The new 46cm FSA carbon bar ($250) and new 90mm Shimano PLT carbon stem
>>> ($175) shown in the photos here
>>> http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/2790265705.html adds $100.
>>>
>>> http://www.realcyclist.com/cutter-801-carbon-cx-sram-apex
>>>
>>> Hit me with any questions and thanks for looking!
>>>
>>> Matt
>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 7
>>> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 17:57:18 -0800
>>> From: Brooke
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Yuba Mundo 2.0 $1k obo lots of extras
>>> Message-ID: <4f10e0fe6b517_f7154008c635c1234ae@lizard.obra.org.mail>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>> Hello All,
>>> We are selling our Mundo 2.0 (bright orange) which comes with an
>>> upgraded kickstand, the Peanut Shell child seat, as well as a Soft Spot
>>> seat and one HUGE "Go-Getter" bag. SE PDX.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Brooke
>>>
>>> Please feel free to write with any questions...I'll answer them as I am
>>> able. beautybybike@gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 8
>>> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 18:25:40 -0800
>>> From: Quinn Keogh
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Portland Shootout
>>> Message-ID: <4f10e7a4bd636_f7144008c635c5555a@lizard.obra.org.mail>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>> I just got back from riding for a week in Tucson. I rode their Shootout
>>> Ride and found myself (again) wondering why Portland doesn't have a similar
>>> weekly group ride. About 100 riders show up every Saturday morning and
>>> meander out of town. The route never changes. Once past the last light out
>>> of town the pace goes way up and the 45 minute "race" begins. After the
>>> finish people either tack on a climbing loop or head back to town. Total
>>> time without extra loop is about 2:30. Eugene has a Thursday night ride
>>> that is similar, it begins once the light is adequate.
>>> I guess the closest thing presently is the Lawyers' Rides. Was there
>>> ever a weekend training race in Portland? Where did it go? Where was the
>>> "finish"?
>>> Based on responses to this post I'd like to get such a ride started, so
>>> please put in your two cents.
>>>
>>> -Quinn
>>>
>>> Disclaimer: The contents of this email are strictly intended for bipedal
>>> mammalian recipients. All others may be prosecuted or domesticated.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 9
>>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 05:33:58 +0000
>>> From: "Mike Murray"
>>> To: "remailer, OBRA"
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Portland Shootout
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <192680742-1326519238-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net
>>> -580042217-@b25.c11.bise6.blackberry>
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain
>>>
>>> I have ridden the Shootout too. There are similar rides in many cities.
>>> My theory as to why Portland doesn't have one is because we have so many
>>> official races. To my mind this is a good thing as rides like the Shootout
>>> and other non-authorised open road races often encourage dangerous behavior
>>> and do very little to help and possibly harm the opinion of racing cyclists
>>> in the minds of the public. I don't think they really even help the racing
>>> cyclists themselves. It is a bit like street drag racing for cars. Racing
>>> should be done with road controls, rules, officials, etc. Otherwise it
>>> should just be riding.
>>>
>>> Mike Murray
>>> Sent via BlackBerry
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Quinn Keogh
>>> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>>> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 18:25:40
>>> To:
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Portland Shootout
>>>
>>> I just got back from riding for a week in Tucson. I rode their Shootout
>>> Ride and found myself (again) wondering why Portland doesn't have a similar
>>> weekly group ride. About 100 riders show up every Saturday morning and
>>> meander out of town. The route never changes. Once past the last light out
>>> of town the pace goes way up and the 45 minute "race" begins. After the
>>> finish people either tack on a climbing loop or head back to town. Total
>>> time without extra loop is about 2:30. Eugene has a Thursday night ride
>>> that is similar, it begins once the light is adequate.
>>> I guess the closest thing presently is the Lawyers' Rides. Was there
>>> ever a weekend training race in Portland? Where did it go? Where was the
>>> "finish"?
>>> Based on responses to this post I'd like to get such a ride started, so
>>> please put in your two cents.
>>>
>>> -Quinn
>>>
>>> Disclaimer: The contents of this email are strictly intended for bipedal
>>> mammalian recipients. All others may be prosecuted or domesticated.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 10
>>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 07:24:26 -0800
>>> From: Steve Scarich
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Shootout
>>> Message-ID: <4f119e2ac187d_f7124008c635c98863@lizard.obra.org<4f119e2ac187d_f7124008c635c98863@lizardobra.org>
>>> .mail>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>> I guess I'll have to disagree somewhat with Mike. I rode the Eugene
>>> Thursday Nighter hundreds of times and the Tucson Shootout a few times
>>> while on vacation. Yes, occasionally the Eugene ride had conflicts with
>>> drivers, but my recollection is that it was not all that often. Most of the
>>> time, we policed ourselves pretty well. My big disagreement with Mike is
>>> the value as a racing experience. I learned a lot about racing tactics, and
>>> my race fitness was really improved by these rides. In a place like Eugene
>>> which has few races, it gave me the opportunity to push myself beyond
>>> anything I had ever done before (think trying to hold Carl Maxon's wheel).
>>>
>>> Steve Scarich
>>>
>>> PS For those youngsters, Carl rode for several years in the European
>>> peleton and won the U.S. Trial Championships more than once.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 11
>>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 07:28:39 -0800
>>> From: Carl Hoefer >
>>> To: "obra@list.obra.org"
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Does anyone have?
>>> Message-ID: <1226B024-FA4C-4571-9F55-0EE613D53937@comcast.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>
>>> About 30 black Nokon shift links? Maybe 15 for brake? I need a little
>>> extra for routing on my TT bike.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Carl Hoefer
>>>
>>> ACME Business Consulting | 971-404-5665 | @carlhoefer
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 12
>>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 08:15:31 -0800
>>> From: Mark Adamski
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Meet the Team Ride
>>> Message-ID: <4f11aa2347135_f7124008c635c9914b@lizard.obra.org.mail>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>> Our Meet the Team Ride is still on for tomorrow, Sunday.
>>>
>>> Bring warm, dry clothes.
>>>
>>> For those who can't make it or want to sit out the bad weather, we will
>>> be having a second Meet the Team Ride on February 19th at 9 a.m.
>>>
>>> Again the details for tomorrow are:
>>>
>>> Portobello-A Better Cycle is hosting a Meet the Team Ride Sunday, Jan.
>>> 15th.
>>>
>>> We will be leaving for a 2+ hour social, no-drop ride from A Better
>>> Cycle located at 2324 SE Division Street in Portland at 9 a.m.
>>>
>>> Get there a few minutes early and enjoy coffee on us.
>>>
>>> If you can't make the ride but are interested in learning more contact
>>> me.
>>>
>>> Mark Adamski
>>> 503 756 6089
>>> bikeracing@portobellopdx.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 13
>>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 08:18:50 -0800
>>> From: Andrew Springer
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shootout
>>> Message-ID: <4f11aaea190d6_f7124008c635c99241@lizard.obra.org.mail>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>> I would LOVE to see a shootout get started here in Portland. Though the
>>> shootout can be raced if inclined, there is a large enough group of varying
>>> fitness levels that everyone ends up in a group ride. If you are inclined
>>> to race, and get dropped, it provides a great deal of structure by being
>>> the same route at the same time each week. Riders can set goals and
>>> practice sections to stay with the big dogs a little further each week as
>>> they progress in fitness. In my experience riding The Shootout, I think it
>>> compliments organized racing very well. (free is always good) From a
>>> cycling community perspective, Portland cyclists could benefit greatly from
>>> a ride like the shootout. I have many friends in Tucson and am envious of
>>> the camaraderie they have, based in no small part to The Shootout.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 14
>>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 09:09:26 -0800
>>> From: Rick Johnson
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shootout
>>> Message-ID: <4F11B6C6.6030702@gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>>
>>> Be that as it may Mike makes a good point. The Tucson Shootout has had
>>> it's share of conflict with local authorities (no doubt prompted by
>>> complaints from some members of their community). One doesn't have to
>>> use a lot of imagination to see the kind of problems a Portland version
>>> might stir up.
>>> I say be careful what you wish for.
>>>
>>> Rick Johnson
>>> Bend Oregon
>>>
>>> * * *
>>>
>>> This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/14/2012 7:24 AM, Steve Scarich wrote:
>>> > I guess I'll have to disagree somewhat with Mike. I rode the Eugene
>>> Thursday Nighter hundreds of times and the Tucson Shootout a few times
>>> while on vacation. Yes, occasionally the Eugene ride had conflicts with
>>> drivers, but my recollection is that it was not all that often. Most of the
>>> time, we policed ourselves pretty well. My big disagreement with Mike is
>>> the value as a racing experience. I learned a lot about racing tactics, and
>>> my race fitness was really improved by these rides. In a place like Eugene
>>> which has few races, it gave me the opportunity to push myself beyond
>>> anything I had ever done before (think trying to hold Carl Maxon's wheel).
>>> >
>>> > Steve Scarich
>>> >
>>> > PS For those youngsters, Carl rode for several years in the European
>>> peleton and won the U.S. Trial Championships more than once.
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > OBRA mailing list
>>> > obra@list.obra.org
>>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 15
>>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 09:47:13 -0800
>>> From: Erik Long
>>> To: Obra >
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shootout
>>> Message-ID:
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>>
>>> These rides always seem like a good idea.
>>>
>>> I lived and raced in Tucson for several years and spent many a Saturday
>>> morning on the famous Shootout (a required training ride on a team I raced
>>> with). That ride can be a good training tool, but it's completely illegal,
>>> no matter how you want to look at it. It's a 100-rider group racing on open
>>> roads with no permit, no rolling enclosure, no rules (no insurance). I've
>>> been on that ride at least once when it was headed off by Tucson P.D. and
>>> on many other occasions when Pileups took down a dozen riders or so,
>>> hospitalizing some. Just picture the most dangerous race you've ever seen
>>> at PIR - the Shootout is worse.
>>>
>>> Rides like the Shootout really do us no good. They make drivers hostile,
>>> injure numerous riders, and perpetuate the anti-bike bias in law
>>> enforcement. A weekly race series would serve Tucson much better.
>>> Fortunately, Portland already has racing almost every day of the week.
>>> Eugene, Bend, even Medford all have weekly races in the warm months.
>>>
>>> Let's support real bike racing and leave the Shootouts for the
>>> ego-driven hacks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 09:09:26 -0800
>>> > From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
>>> > To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shootout
>>> >
>>> > Be that as it may Mike makes a good point. The Tucson Shootout has had
>>> > it's share of conflict with local authorities (no doubt prompted by
>>> > complaints from some members of their community). One doesn't have to
>>> > use a lot of imagination to see the kind of problems a Portland
>>> version
>>> > might stir up.
>>> > I say be careful what you wish for.
>>> >
>>> > Rick Johnson
>>> > Bend Oregon
>>> >
>>> > * * *
>>> >
>>> > This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 1/14/2012 7:24 AM, Steve Scarich wrote:
>>> > > I guess I'll have to disagree somewhat with Mike. I rode the Eugene
>>> Thursday Nighter hundreds of times and the Tucson Shootout a few times
>>> while on vacation. Yes, occasionally the Eugene ride had conflicts with
>>> drivers, but my recollection is that it was not all that often. Most of the
>>> time, we policed ourselves pretty well. My big disagreement with Mike is
>>> the value as a racing experience. I learned a lot about racing tactics, and
>>> my race fitness was really improved by these rides. In a place like Eugene
>>> which has few races, it gave me the opportunity to push myself beyond
>>> anything I had ever done before (think trying to hold Carl Maxon's wheel).
>>> > >
>>> > > Steve Scarich
>>> > >
>>> > > PS For those youngsters, Carl rode for several years in the European
>>> peleton and won the U.S. Trial Championships more than once.
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > OBRA mailing list
>>> > > obra@list.obra.org
>>> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > OBRA mailing list
>>> > obra@list.obra.org
>>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> URL: <
>>> http://list.obra.org/pipermail/obra/attachments/20120114/fe0f7898/attachment.html&gt
>>> ;
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 16
>>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 11:11:37 -0800
>>> From: West coast Women's Cycling
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] One last plug! BTA fundraiser tonight!!!!
>>> Message-ID: <4f11d36995fd7_f7124008c635c99865@lizard.obra.org.mail>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>> One last reminder and then I will quit buggin y'all!
>>>
>>> Just a reminder that the WCWC team is hosting a fundraiser for the BTA
>>> this Saturday, Jan 14 at P.A.C.E. (4829 NE MLK Blvd, Portland) from 7-9pm.
>>> Come and join the fun and drink some delicious Ninkasi Beer and win some
>>> awesome raffle prizes! ALL PROCEEDS FROM THE RAFFLE GO DIRECTLY TO THE
>>> BTA!!!
>>> Raffle items are being graciously donated by F5 Coaching, Full Motion
>>> Body Works Massage Therapy, Western Bike Works and other local businesses.
>>> There will be a big ticket item at the end of the night, so come and make
>>> sure you buy plenty of tickets to get a good shot of winning.
>>> There will also be more chances to win by competing in the AMAZING
>>> MINI-BIKE OBSTACLE COURSE! Choose your weapon and show us your skillzzzz!
>>> Best time gets an AWESOME prize!
>>> Check out the official flier and more information at
>>> WCWCTeam.wordpress.com.
>>> Thanks!
>>> Karey Swan
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 17
>>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 11:46:49 -0800
>>> From: Jessica Kaplan
>>> To: OBRA
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Brand New Fuji SST 1.0 Frameset - 50cm
>>> Message-ID:
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>>>
>>> For sale is a brand new, never ridden, still in the box, 2010 Fuji SST
>>> 1.0 50cm frameset
>>>
>>> http://2010.fujibikes.com/Road/Aero/SST-1-0.aspx
>>>
>>> Technically Fuji calls this a Size XS, 50cm. But this bike does not
>>> fit like a 50cm! It should be called a 52cm.
>>>
>>> The effective top tube is about 52cm. The seat tube is 68 cm
>>> (including seat mast which can be cut). This does not include the
>>> seatpost mounting bracket and the saddle itself. The longest you would
>>> probably ride the seat post is about 76cm from center of bottom
>>> bracket to top of saddle, this is long enough for someone who is
>>> 5?-10?, if you are all legs, and love a huge drop from saddle to
>>> handlebar, this would be perfect. Otherwise, I would recommend this
>>> bike for someone between 5?5? and 5?-7?. It would fit nicely and
>>> handle like a beauty.
>>>
>>> The frame and seat mast weigh 1040g! This is ridiculously light! Most
>>> carbon bikes weigh this much without the seatpost (on average another
>>> 200-300 grams for seatpost). And the fork is only 390g. The bike is
>>> very stiff (SST = Super Stiff Carbon) and was designed to be a crit
>>> racer, it is twitchy and fast.
>>>
>>> MSRP for the frame is ~$3,000.
>>>
>>> If you are interested, make me an offer!
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>> End of OBRA Digest, Vol 73, Issue 14
>>> ************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Wm.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Mike Murray

All the messages about group rides is great and those ARE beneficial to cycling in general. The Shootout is different. It is essentially a mass start race without a road use permit, lead cars, follow cars, officials, first aid plan, liability insurance, etc. It is also huge, 100+ riders ranging from pros to wankers. Some helmets, some bare heads, some tri bars. Think a PIR size field composed of anybody who has a bike rolling down open roads with cars, bikes filling the lane. Maybe more like Bridge Pedal but everyone trying to go fast. The thing that makes it not as big a cluster as it could be is that it goes up hill so it strings out. Smaller rides that do not obstruct traffic where people get competitive when things are clear are a completely different animal.
Mike Murray
Sent via BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Jeff Tedder"
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 07:21:31
To: ; Erik Long
Cc: Obra
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] shoot out

_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Jeff Tedder

Myself and Hammer Velo have been leading large group rides for years from River City Bikes every Saturday and Sunday.....
The people that train with us all know the rules for our rides and we have never had any problems with traffic, complaints, crashing etc.....Our Sat rides do the same route every week through the winter, we stay on roads that we have very little stop and go and
that keeps things moving and strung out so it has never been an issue with us as far as the amount of people we have.
Sometimes it splits up into 2 groups because the Sat. rides are fast. Some weeks are full on race pace training rides and at that point everyone knows
that if you flat or get dropped from either group you are on your own, that's why we do the same route, everyone knows it so they can all find the way home..
I think if you manage these group rides with common sense then it's cool, but like you say if it becomes a total free for all that could be trouble I agree...
Now go out and enjoy the snow.....see ya
Jeff

From: T. Kenji Sugahara
To: Erik Long
Cc: Obra
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] shoot out

It can be depending on location.

As I mentioned before- in Salem there are group rides throughout the year. It isn't affiliated with any team or club. However, there are racers and long time riders (not necessarily all racers) whom are very good at helping along new folks. That's originally how I got my start in racing. I used to go ride with some friends- then was invited along on one of the Tuesday/Thursday rides. There I met some great folks who mentored me. (Canada Dave- some of you may remember him- and Brian Marcroft) These guys introduced me to OBRA.

Each geographic region is fairly unique. In Portland- K-Rhea and crew (Portland Velo) does a great job managing large numbers of riders. And there's lots of mentoring.

On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Erik Long wrote:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: elongride@hotmail.com
To: kenji@obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] shoot out
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 20:43:17 -0800

Kenji, what you have just described - the bit about group rides with experienced riders mentoring the newbies - is basically a "club ride", yes?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kenji@obra.org
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 19:13:30 -0800
To: rubbishheaponer@gmail.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] shoot out

Here's the difference- Eugene's Thursday nighters are a small cohort of really good riders. Not a whole lot of randoms.

I still need to make it down there- but with guys like Skenzick, Bourcier and English - it reads like a 1/2 race- you have a bunch of really good folks who mentor and can show folks the ropes. The ride also starts outside the city limits at the Church.

It's all about scale. Salem is a perfect example where things start to go south. During winter/spring the rides are great. They're usually small and there's great readers on the ride.

When you start getting upwards of 30-40 people on the ride during the summer, it starts to degenerate. If there aren't enough mentors it begins to turn into a free for all. The fast guys/gals go to the front and hammer. This causes the folks who aren't in as good of a shape to suffer at the back. The people at the back begin yo-yo'ing and are at their limit and only stare at the wheel in front of them. This means they aren't paying attention to the road and will often weave all over the place.

You also have a larger group of people who haven't ridden in groups hopping in. Without enough mentors the rules start to be broken. People begin riding 4 to 5 abreast, weaving all over the place. It really annoys the general public. It's gotten to the point where people specifically complain to shops.

Group rides are a great place to get people to start racing but when they get too big, they start to lose structure- and that's bad for everyone.

On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Jeremy wrote:

Considering state law as dictated via http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/814.430 , I've personally never witnessed any traffic violations after years of doing the Thursday nighter in Eugene. In addition, I've never observed a crash on that ride firsthand and only heard about one occurring on a single instance. One couldn't say the same thing about most sanctioned criteriums. That ride taught me more about racing and riding in fast groups than PIR or even the local Tuesday crit series ever could have, in a context where camaraderie and guidance are much more encouraged than in a pack of 3/4's all vying for a handful of upgrade points.

On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 4:41 PM, William Laubernds wrote:

Having been on the UEF ride many times, I would stress that I have never seen anyone breaking traffic laws or riding illegally. Russell and other riders would not tolerate that.

After the first neutral lap, the ride can get spirited at times. Which works well since the route travels on either out-and-backs or loops. Also, if there are flats, the ride doesn't stop; that person just reverses the loop to catch back on. Great winter training ride for anyone in the PDX area that accommodates varying fitness levels. Large turn outs too.

On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 12:29 PM, wrote:

I think PDX has a shoot out style ride already every Sunday at UEF they meet and ride out HWY 30 to sauvies once they hit sauvies it gets fast and they then head out hwy 30 up a climb and head home. It's a total of 75 miles if you get dropped then you can group up with others that have been as well, happens evey Sunday. Pretty sure it's just like the shoot out. Russell Cree can inform you more.

Cheers
Mark Duff - President
Veloforma, Inc.
WHQ: 41991 NW Woollen Rd, Banks, OR 97106
Mail: PO Box 185, Banks, OR 97106
503.789.6735
www.veloforma.com
www.twitter.com/veloforma
www.corsaconcepts.com

NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments are privileged and confidential and intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s). If the reader hereof is neither the intended recipient nor the employee or agent thereof, who is responsible for delivering this information to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any forwarding, disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the content hereof is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately at 503.789.6735 or reply email to the sender, and please delete the email and all attachments from your computer. Thank you.

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org

_______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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T. Kenji Sugahara

It can be depending on location.

As I mentioned before- in Salem there are group rides throughout the year.
It isn't affiliated with any team or club. However, there are racers and
long time riders (not necessarily all racers) whom are very good at helping
along new folks. That's originally how I got my start in racing. I used
to go ride with some friends- then was invited along on one of the
Tuesday/Thursday rides. There I met some great folks who mentored me.
(Canada Dave- some of you may remember him- and Brian Marcroft) These guys
introduced me to OBRA.

Each geographic region is fairly unique. In Portland- K-Rhea and crew
(Portland Velo) does a great job managing large numbers of riders. And
there's lots of mentoring.

On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Erik Long wrote:

>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: elongride@hotmail.com
> To: kenji@obra.org
> Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] shoot out
> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 20:43:17 -0800
>
>
> Kenji, what you have just described - the bit about group rides with
> experienced riders mentoring the newbies - is basically a "club ride", yes?
>
> ------------------------------
> From: kenji@obra.org
> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 19:13:30 -0800
> To: rubbishheaponer@gmail.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] shoot out
>
> Here's the difference- Eugene's Thursday nighters are a small cohort of
> really good riders. Not a whole lot of randoms.
>
> I still need to make it down there- but with guys like Skenzick, Bourcier
> and English - it reads like a 1/2 race- you have a bunch of really good
> folks who mentor and can show folks the ropes. The ride also starts
> outside the city limits at the Church.
>
> It's all about scale. Salem is a perfect example where things start to go
> south. During winter/spring the rides are great. They're usually small
> and there's great readers on the ride.
>
> When you start getting upwards of 30-40 people on the ride during the
> summer, it starts to degenerate. If there aren't enough mentors it begins
> to turn into a free for all. The fast guys/gals go to the front and
> hammer. This causes the folks who aren't in as good of a shape to suffer
> at the back. The people at the back begin yo-yo'ing and are at their limit
> and only stare at the wheel in front of them. This means they aren't
> paying attention to the road and will often weave all over the place.
>
> You also have a larger group of people who haven't ridden in groups
> hopping in. Without enough mentors the rules start to be broken. People
> begin riding 4 to 5 abreast, weaving all over the place. It really annoys
> the general public. It's gotten to the point where people specifically
> complain to shops.
>
> Group rides are a great place to get people to start racing but when they
> get too big, they start to lose structure- and that's bad for everyone.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Jeremy wrote:
>
> Considering state law as dictated via
> http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/814.430 , I've personally never witnessed
> any traffic violations after years of doing the Thursday nighter in Eugene.
> In addition, I've never observed a crash on that ride firsthand and only
> heard about one occurring on a single instance. One couldn't say the same
> thing about most sanctioned criteriums. That ride taught me more about
> racing and riding in fast groups than PIR or even the local Tuesday crit
> series ever could have, in a context where camaraderie and guidance are
> much more encouraged than in a pack of 3/4's all vying for a handful of
> upgrade points.
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 4:41 PM, William Laubernds wrote:
>
> Having been on the UEF ride many times, I would stress that I have never
> seen anyone breaking traffic laws or riding illegally. Russell and other
> riders would not tolerate that.
>
> After the first neutral lap, the ride can get spirited at times. Which
> works well since the route travels on either out-and-backs or loops. Also,
> if there are flats, the ride doesn't stop; that person just reverses the
> loop to catch back on. Great winter training ride for anyone in the PDX
> area that accommodates varying fitness levels. Large turn outs too.
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 12:29 PM, wrote:
>
> I think PDX has a shoot out style ride already every Sunday at UEF
> they meet and ride out HWY 30 to sauvies once they hit sauvies it gets fast
> and they then head out hwy 30 up a climb and head home. It's a total of 75
> miles if you get dropped then you can group up with others that have been
> as well, happens evey Sunday. Pretty sure it's just like the shoot out.
> Russell Cree can inform you more.
>
> Cheers
> Mark Duff - President
> Veloforma, Inc.
> WHQ: 41991 NW Woollen Rd, Banks, OR 97106
> Mail: PO Box 185, Banks, OR 97106
> 503.789.6735
> www.veloforma.com
> www.twitter.com/veloforma
> www.corsaconcepts.com
>
> NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments are
> privileged and confidential and intended only for the use of the intended
> recipient(s). If the reader hereof is neither the intended recipient nor
> the employee or agent thereof, who is responsible for delivering this
> information to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> forwarding, disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in
> reliance upon the content hereof is strictly prohibited. If you have
> received this email in error, please notify us immediately at 503.789.6735or reply email to the sender, and please delete the email and all
> attachments from your computer. Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone: 503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obraUnsubscribe:
> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org

dacrizzow

Kenji is right about the mentor aspect. PIR is a good example. there's a good solid core of riders (in the monday night 4/5's anyway) that are out there every week. toward the end of the season random guys start showing up to get in condition for cross and the whole rythm can get a little sketchy. None of those guys seem to appreciate being called out either even though there's obvious "alpha dogs and elder statesmen" out there. having a random bunch of 60-100 guys barreling down HWY 30 in one pack may not be such a cool idea. Well, I think it's a cool idea but it may not help our cause any.

Erik Long

From: elongride@hotmail.com
To: kenji@obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] shoot out
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 20:43:17 -0800

Kenji, what you have just described - the bit about group rides with experienced riders mentoring the newbies - is basically a "club ride", yes?

From: kenji@obra.org
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 19:13:30 -0800
To: rubbishheaponer@gmail.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] shoot out

Here's the difference- Eugene's Thursday nighters are a small cohort of really good riders. Not a whole lot of randoms.

I still need to make it down there- but with guys like Skenzick, Bourcier and English - it reads like a 1/2 race- you have a bunch of really good folks who mentor and can show folks the ropes. The ride also starts outside the city limits at the Church.

It's all about scale. Salem is a perfect example where things start to go south. During winter/spring the rides are great. They're usually small and there's great readers on the ride.

When you start getting upwards of 30-40 people on the ride during the summer, it starts to degenerate. If there aren't enough mentors it begins to turn into a free for all. The fast guys/gals go to the front and hammer. This causes the folks who aren't in as good of a shape to suffer at the back. The people at the back begin yo-yo'ing and are at their limit and only stare at the wheel in front of them. This means they aren't paying attention to the road and will often weave all over the place.

You also have a larger group of people who haven't ridden in groups hopping in. Without enough mentors the rules start to be broken. People begin riding 4 to 5 abreast, weaving all over the place. It really annoys the general public. It's gotten to the point where people specifically complain to shops.

Group rides are a great place to get people to start racing but when they get too big, they start to lose structure- and that's bad for everyone.

On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Jeremy wrote:

Considering state law as dictated via http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/814.430 , I've personally never witnessed any traffic violations after years of doing the Thursday nighter in Eugene. In addition, I've never observed a crash on that ride firsthand and only heard about one occurring on a single instance. One couldn't say the same thing about most sanctioned criteriums. That ride taught me more about racing and riding in fast groups than PIR or even the local Tuesday crit series ever could have, in a context where camaraderie and guidance are much more encouraged than in a pack of 3/4's all vying for a handful of upgrade points.

On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 4:41 PM, William Laubernds wrote:

Having been on the UEF ride many times, I would stress that I have never seen anyone breaking traffic laws or riding illegally. Russell and other riders would not tolerate that.

After the first neutral lap, the ride can get spirited at times. Which works well since the route travels on either out-and-backs or loops. Also, if there are flats, the ride doesn't stop; that person just reverses the loop to catch back on. Great winter training ride for anyone in the PDX area that accommodates varying fitness levels. Large turn outs too.

On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 12:29 PM, wrote:

I think PDX has a shoot out style ride already every Sunday at UEF they meet and ride out HWY 30 to sauvies once they hit sauvies it gets fast and they then head out hwy 30 up a climb and head home. It's a total of 75 miles if you get dropped then you can group up with others that have been as well, happens evey Sunday. Pretty sure it's just like the shoot out. Russell Cree can inform you more.

Cheers
Mark Duff - President
Veloforma, Inc.
WHQ: 41991 NW Woollen Rd, Banks, OR 97106
Mail: PO Box 185, Banks, OR 97106
503.789.6735
www.veloforma.com
www.twitter.com/veloforma
www.corsaconcepts.com

NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments are privileged and confidential and intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s). If the reader hereof is neither the intended recipient nor the employee or agent thereof, who is responsible for delivering this information to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any forwarding, disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the content hereof is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately at 503.789.6735 or reply email to the sender, and please delete the email and all attachments from your computer. Thank you.

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org

_______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

T. Kenji Sugahara

Here's the difference- Eugene's Thursday nighters are a small cohort of
really good riders. Not a whole lot of randoms.

I still need to make it down there- but with guys like Skenzick, Bourcier
and English - it reads like a 1/2 race- you have a bunch of really good
folks who mentor and can show folks the ropes. The ride also starts
outside the city limits at the Church.

It's all about scale. Salem is a perfect example where things start to go
south. During winter/spring the rides are great. They're usually small
and there's great readers on the ride.

When you start getting upwards of 30-40 people on the ride during the
summer, it starts to degenerate. If there aren't enough mentors it begins
to turn into a free for all. The fast guys/gals go to the front and
hammer. This causes the folks who aren't in as good of a shape to suffer
at the back. The people at the back begin yo-yo'ing and are at their limit
and only stare at the wheel in front of them. This means they aren't
paying attention to the road and will often weave all over the place.

You also have a larger group of people who haven't ridden in groups hopping
in. Without enough mentors the rules start to be broken. People begin
riding 4 to 5 abreast, weaving all over the place. It really annoys the
general public. It's gotten to the point where people specifically
complain to shops.

Group rides are a great place to get people to start racing but when they
get too big, they start to lose structure- and that's bad for everyone.

On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Jeremy wrote:

> Considering state law as dictated via
> http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/814.430 , I've personally never witnessed
> any traffic violations after years of doing the Thursday nighter in Eugene.
> In addition, I've never observed a crash on that ride firsthand and only
> heard about one occurring on a single instance. One couldn't say the same
> thing about most sanctioned criteriums. That ride taught me more about
> racing and riding in fast groups than PIR or even the local Tuesday crit
> series ever could have, in a context where camaraderie and guidance are
> much more encouraged than in a pack of 3/4's all vying for a handful of
> upgrade points.
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 4:41 PM, William Laubernds wrote:
>
>> Having been on the UEF ride many times, I would stress that I have never
>> seen anyone breaking traffic laws or riding illegally. Russell and other
>> riders would not tolerate that.
>>
>> After the first neutral lap, the ride can get spirited at times. Which
>> works well since the route travels on either out-and-backs or loops. Also,
>> if there are flats, the ride doesn't stop; that person just reverses the
>> loop to catch back on. Great winter training ride for anyone in the PDX
>> area that accommodates varying fitness levels. Large turn outs too.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 12:29 PM, wrote:
>>
>>> I think PDX has a shoot out style ride already every Sunday at UEF they
>>> meet and ride out HWY 30 to sauvies once they hit sauvies it gets fast and
>>> they then head out hwy 30 up a climb and head home. It's a total of 75
>>> miles if you get dropped then you can group up with others that have been
>>> as well, happens evey Sunday. Pretty sure it's just like the shoot out.
>>> Russell Cree can inform you more.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Mark Duff - President
>>> Veloforma, Inc.
>>> WHQ: 41991 NW Woollen Rd, Banks, OR 97106
>>> Mail: PO Box 185, Banks, OR 97106
>>> 503.789.6735
>>> www.veloforma.com
>>> www.twitter.com/veloforma
>>> www.corsaconcepts.com
>>>
>>> NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments are
>>> privileged and confidential and intended only for the use of the intended
>>> recipient(s). If the reader hereof is neither the intended recipient nor
>>> the employee or agent thereof, who is responsible for delivering this
>>> information to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
>>> forwarding, disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in
>>> reliance upon the content hereof is strictly prohibited. If you have
>>> received this email in error, please notify us immediately at
>>> 503.789.6735 or reply email to the sender, and please delete the email
>>> and all attachments from your computer. Thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org

Jeremy

Considering state law as dictated via
http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/814.430 , I've personally never witnessed any
traffic violations after years of doing the Thursday nighter in Eugene. In
addition, I've never observed a crash on that ride firsthand and only heard
about one occurring on a single instance. One couldn't say the same thing
about most sanctioned criteriums. That ride taught me more about racing and
riding in fast groups than PIR or even the local Tuesday crit series ever
could have, in a context where camaraderie and guidance are much more
encouraged than in a pack of 3/4's all vying for a handful of upgrade
points.

On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 4:41 PM, William Laubernds wrote:

> Having been on the UEF ride many times, I would stress that I have never
> seen anyone breaking traffic laws or riding illegally. Russell and other
> riders would not tolerate that.
>
> After the first neutral lap, the ride can get spirited at times. Which
> works well since the route travels on either out-and-backs or loops. Also,
> if there are flats, the ride doesn't stop; that person just reverses the
> loop to catch back on. Great winter training ride for anyone in the PDX
> area that accommodates varying fitness levels. Large turn outs too.
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 12:29 PM, wrote:
>
>> I think PDX has a shoot out style ride already every Sunday at UEF they
>> meet and ride out HWY 30 to sauvies once they hit sauvies it gets fast and
>> they then head out hwy 30 up a climb and head home. It's a total of 75
>> miles if you get dropped then you can group up with others that have been
>> as well, happens evey Sunday. Pretty sure it's just like the shoot out.
>> Russell Cree can inform you more.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Mark Duff - President
>> Veloforma, Inc.
>> WHQ: 41991 NW Woollen Rd, Banks, OR 97106
>> Mail: PO Box 185, Banks, OR 97106
>> 503.789.6735
>> www.veloforma.com
>> www.twitter.com/veloforma
>> www.corsaconcepts.com
>>
>> NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments are
>> privileged and confidential and intended only for the use of the intended
>> recipient(s). If the reader hereof is neither the intended recipient nor
>> the employee or agent thereof, who is responsible for delivering this
>> information to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
>> forwarding, disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in
>> reliance upon the content hereof is strictly prohibited. If you have
>> received this email in error, please notify us immediately at
>> 503.789.6735 or reply email to the sender, and please delete the email
>> and all attachments from your computer. Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: OBRA Digest, Vol 73, Issue 14
>> From: obra-request@list.obra.org
>> Date: Sat, January 14, 2012 12:00 pm
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>
>> Send OBRA mailing list submissions to
>> obra@list.obra.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> obra-request@list.obra.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> obra-owner@list.obra.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of OBRA digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. FS: Rolf Vigor SL wheelset-$450 (Adam Artner)
>> 2. FS: Rolf Vigor SL wheelset-$450 (Adam Artner)
>> 3. FS: Specialzed Crux Comp 54cm cyclocross (Rich Slingsby)
>> 4. FS: roller, 1up trainer, krome (Jim Stuck)
>> 5. FS: 2008 Felt F55 - $1100 (mace jc)
>> 6. FS: New 2011 Cutter Carbon Cyclocross Frame - $600 (SE PDX)
>> (Matt Lichtenfels)
>> 7. FS: Yuba Mundo 2.0 $1k obo lots of extras (Brooke)
>> 8. Portland Shootout (Quinn Keogh)
>> 9. Re: Portland Shootout (Mike Murray)
>> 10. Shootout (Steve Scarich)
>> 11. Does anyone have? (Carl Hoefer)
>> 12. Meet the Team Ride (Mark Adamski)
>> 13. Re: Shootout (Andrew Springer)
>> 14. Re: Shootout (Rick Johnson)
>> 15. Re: Shootout (Erik Long)
>> 16. One last plug! BTA fundraiser tonight!!!!
>> (West coast Women's Cycling)
>> 17. FS: Brand New Fuji SST 1.0 Frameset - 50cm (Jessica Kaplan)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 14:26:08 -0800
>> From: Adam Artner
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Rolf Vigor SL wheelset-$450
>> Message-ID: <4f10af802a7be_f7134008c635c118687@lizard.obra.org.mail>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> For sale are my 2011 rolf prima vigor sl wheels. Good Shape, True rims,
>> Roll smooth, good braking track. Only blemishes are from a mal-aligned
>> brake pad and a scuff on a couple spokes. These are great wheels and need a
>> home quick. Asking $450+shipping to wherever you are.
>>
>> Call (541)941-5888 or email adamartner@yahoo.com
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 14:28:16 -0800
>> From: Adam Artner
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Rolf Vigor SL wheelset-$450
>> Message-ID: <4f10b0006c11f_f7154008c635c12244@lizard.obra.org.mail>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Here's the CL ad with Photos:
>>
>>
>> http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/bik/2798561473.html
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 15:03:30 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Rich Slingsby
>> To: "obra@list.obra.org"
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Specialzed Crux Comp 54cm cyclocross
>> Message-ID:
>> <1326495810.22162.YahooMailNeo@web160506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Specialized Crux comp cyclocross 54cm - $1000 (ne portland)
>> ________________________________
>> Date: 2012-01-09, 6:46PM PST
>> Reply to:?your anonymous craigslist address will appear here
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>> 2011Specialized Crux comp 54 cm cyclocross bike
>> Fits 5'9"-5'10" ish sized person.
>> Alloy E5 Frameset with tapered carbon forkset "( no brake shudder)
>> SRAM apex components
>> BB30 FSA gossamer crankset
>> Roval wheelset
>> Sram Apex rear der , Sram Apex front derailleur, Apex shifters brake
>> levers.
>> Carbon post. Very adjustable Specialized stem.
>> Great cyclocross race bike , or do everything bike
>> Bike is in excellent condition. 6 months since new.
>> Thanks for looking
>>
>>
>>
>> http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/2781925381.html
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Rich
>> 503-319-7679
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 15:06:33 -0800
>> From: Jim Stuck
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: roller, 1up trainer, krome
>> Message-ID: <4f10b8f99886d_f7144008c635c540ee@lizard.obra.org.mail>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Travel Trac folding rollers, $80
>> good shape, used lightly.
>>
>> 1up trainer, $175
>> http://www.1upusa.com/bike_trainer.html
>> super shape, made in the USA with a lifetime guarantee
>>
>> Krome Metropolis messenger bag, $80,
>> Like new, used very little, red/black.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 16:13:06 -0800 (PST)
>> From: mace jc
>> To: "obra@list.obra.org"
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: 2008 Felt F55 - $1100
>> Message-ID:
>> <1326499986.10935.YahooMailNeo@web161802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Still for sale.?
>> 2008 Felt F55 for sale. Size 54cm (runs large, closer to a 55cm.).
>> Excellent shape and very clean. Very few signs of wear.
>> Raced a few times, never crashed. Has just never really fit all that well.
>> Easton EA50 90mm. stem.
>> Dura Ace 6600 10 speed. DA brakes. Easton Vista SL wheelset with new
>> Vittoria Diamante Pro Lite tires.
>> FSA carbon pro compact crankset (ISIS BB). 11-25 DA cassette.
>> DA front and rear derailleurs. Newer big and small FSA rings.
>> Carbon fork and tail. New and bar tape cables all around.
>> $1100. Pretty firm on the price. Pics available upon request.
>> OBRA folks, Feel free to bring shoes and cleats.
>> Email with questions or PH: 503-347-8005.
>> Better pics on request.
>> ?
>> Thanks for looking!? Jess
>> ?
>> http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/2789330119.html
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> ;
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 17:00:12 -0800
>> From: Matt Lichtenfels
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: New 2011 Cutter Carbon Cyclocross Frame -
>> $600 (SE PDX)
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Selling a new 2011 52cm Cutter Carbon Cyclocross Frame purchased earlier
>> this year through www.realcyclist.com .Purchased for $1159 through the
>> website. The new, never been built frame is full carbon and includes a
>> carbon fork with uncut aluminum 1 1/8" steerer. I've added an integrated
>> drop-in Ritchey WCS sealed headset and Shimano Pro front canti brake
>> hangar
>> that are included in the sale. The frame is cross-specific (53 cm
>> effective
>> TT) frame is super beefy, understated, and gorgeous. Must see to believe.
>> Hate to see it go but traveling to much to take up cross. Now asking $600.
>> The new 46cm FSA carbon bar ($250) and new 90mm Shimano PLT carbon stem
>> ($175) shown in the photos here
>> http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/2790265705.html adds $100.
>>
>> http://www.realcyclist.com/cutter-801-carbon-cx-sram-apex
>>
>> Hit me with any questions and thanks for looking!
>>
>> Matt
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 17:57:18 -0800
>> From: Brooke
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Yuba Mundo 2.0 $1k obo lots of extras
>> Message-ID: <4f10e0fe6b517_f7154008c635c1234ae@lizard.obra.org.mail>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Hello All,
>> We are selling our Mundo 2.0 (bright orange) which comes with an upgraded
>> kickstand, the Peanut Shell child seat, as well as a Soft Spot seat and one
>> HUGE "Go-Getter" bag. SE PDX.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Brooke
>>
>> Please feel free to write with any questions...I'll answer them as I am
>> able. beautybybike@gmail.com
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 18:25:40 -0800
>> From: Quinn Keogh
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Portland Shootout
>> Message-ID: <4f10e7a4bd636_f7144008c635c5555a@lizard.obra.org.mail>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> I just got back from riding for a week in Tucson. I rode their Shootout
>> Ride and found myself (again) wondering why Portland doesn't have a similar
>> weekly group ride. About 100 riders show up every Saturday morning and
>> meander out of town. The route never changes. Once past the last light out
>> of town the pace goes way up and the 45 minute "race" begins. After the
>> finish people either tack on a climbing loop or head back to town. Total
>> time without extra loop is about 2:30. Eugene has a Thursday night ride
>> that is similar, it begins once the light is adequate.
>> I guess the closest thing presently is the Lawyers' Rides. Was there ever
>> a weekend training race in Portland? Where did it go? Where was the
>> "finish"?
>> Based on responses to this post I'd like to get such a ride started, so
>> please put in your two cents.
>>
>> -Quinn
>>
>> Disclaimer: The contents of this email are strictly intended for bipedal
>> mammalian recipients. All others may be prosecuted or domesticated.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 05:33:58 +0000
>> From: "Mike Murray"
>> To: "remailer, OBRA"
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Portland Shootout
>> Message-ID:
>> <192680742-1326519238-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net
>> -580042217-@b25.c11.bise6.blackberry>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain
>>
>> I have ridden the Shootout too. There are similar rides in many cities.
>> My theory as to why Portland doesn't have one is because we have so many
>> official races. To my mind this is a good thing as rides like the Shootout
>> and other non-authorised open road races often encourage dangerous behavior
>> and do very little to help and possibly harm the opinion of racing cyclists
>> in the minds of the public. I don't think they really even help the racing
>> cyclists themselves. It is a bit like street drag racing for cars. Racing
>> should be done with road controls, rules, officials, etc. Otherwise it
>> should just be riding.
>>
>> Mike Murray
>> Sent via BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Quinn Keogh
>> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 18:25:40
>> To:
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Portland Shootout
>>
>> I just got back from riding for a week in Tucson. I rode their Shootout
>> Ride and found myself (again) wondering why Portland doesn't have a similar
>> weekly group ride. About 100 riders show up every Saturday morning and
>> meander out of town. The route never changes. Once past the last light out
>> of town the pace goes way up and the 45 minute "race" begins. After the
>> finish people either tack on a climbing loop or head back to town. Total
>> time without extra loop is about 2:30. Eugene has a Thursday night ride
>> that is similar, it begins once the light is adequate.
>> I guess the closest thing presently is the Lawyers' Rides. Was there ever
>> a weekend training race in Portland? Where did it go? Where was the
>> "finish"?
>> Based on responses to this post I'd like to get such a ride started, so
>> please put in your two cents.
>>
>> -Quinn
>>
>> Disclaimer: The contents of this email are strictly intended for bipedal
>> mammalian recipients. All others may be prosecuted or domesticated.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 07:24:26 -0800
>> From: Steve Scarich
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Shootout
>> Message-ID: <4f119e2ac187d_f7124008c635c98863@lizard.obra.org.mail>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> I guess I'll have to disagree somewhat with Mike. I rode the Eugene
>> Thursday Nighter hundreds of times and the Tucson Shootout a few times
>> while on vacation. Yes, occasionally the Eugene ride had conflicts with
>> drivers, but my recollection is that it was not all that often. Most of the
>> time, we policed ourselves pretty well. My big disagreement with Mike is
>> the value as a racing experience. I learned a lot about racing tactics, and
>> my race fitness was really improved by these rides. In a place like Eugene
>> which has few races, it gave me the opportunity to push myself beyond
>> anything I had ever done before (think trying to hold Carl Maxon's wheel).
>>
>> Steve Scarich
>>
>> PS For those youngsters, Carl rode for several years in the European
>> peleton and won the U.S. Trial Championships more than once.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 07:28:39 -0800
>> From: Carl Hoefer
>> To: "obra@list.obra.org"
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Does anyone have?
>> Message-ID: <1226B024-FA4C-4571-9F55-0EE613D53937@comcast.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> About 30 black Nokon shift links? Maybe 15 for brake? I need a little
>> extra for routing on my TT bike.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Carl Hoefer
>>
>> ACME Business Consulting | 971-404-5665 | @carlhoefer
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 08:15:31 -0800
>> From: Mark Adamski
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Meet the Team Ride
>> Message-ID: <4f11aa2347135_f7124008c635c9914b@lizard.obra.org.mail>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Our Meet the Team Ride is still on for tomorrow, Sunday.
>>
>> Bring warm, dry clothes.
>>
>> For those who can't make it or want to sit out the bad weather, we will
>> be having a second Meet the Team Ride on February 19th at 9 a.m.
>>
>> Again the details for tomorrow are:
>>
>> Portobello-A Better Cycle is hosting a Meet the Team Ride Sunday, Jan.
>> 15th.
>>
>> We will be leaving for a 2+ hour social, no-drop ride from A Better Cycle
>> located at 2324 SE Division Street in Portland at 9 a.m.
>>
>> Get there a few minutes early and enjoy coffee on us.
>>
>> If you can't make the ride but are interested in learning more contact me.
>>
>> Mark Adamski
>> 503 756 6089
>> bikeracing@portobellopdx.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 13
>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 08:18:50 -0800
>> From: Andrew Springer
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shootout
>> Message-ID: <4f11aaea190d6_f7124008c635c99241@lizard.obra.org.mail>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> I would LOVE to see a shootout get started here in Portland. Though the
>> shootout can be raced if inclined, there is a large enough group of varying
>> fitness levels that everyone ends up in a group ride. If you are inclined
>> to race, and get dropped, it provides a great deal of structure by being
>> the same route at the same time each week. Riders can set goals and
>> practice sections to stay with the big dogs a little further each week as
>> they progress in fitness. In my experience riding The Shootout, I think it
>> compliments organized racing very well. (free is always good) From a
>> cycling community perspective, Portland cyclists could benefit greatly from
>> a ride like the shootout. I have many friends in Tucson and am envious of
>> the camaraderie they have, based in no small part to The Shootout.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 14
>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 09:09:26 -0800
>> From: Rick Johnson
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shootout
>> Message-ID: <4F11B6C6.6030702@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Be that as it may Mike makes a good point. The Tucson Shootout has had
>> it's share of conflict with local authorities (no doubt prompted by
>> complaints from some members of their community). One doesn't have to
>> use a lot of imagination to see the kind of problems a Portland version
>> might stir up.
>> I say be careful what you wish for.
>>
>> Rick Johnson
>> Bend Oregon
>>
>> * * *
>>
>> This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/14/2012 7:24 AM, Steve Scarich wrote:
>> > I guess I'll have to disagree somewhat with Mike. I rode the Eugene
>> Thursday Nighter hundreds of times and the Tucson Shootout a few times
>> while on vacation. Yes, occasionally the Eugene ride had conflicts with
>> drivers, but my recollection is that it was not all that often. Most of the
>> time, we policed ourselves pretty well. My big disagreement with Mike is
>> the value as a racing experience. I learned a lot about racing tactics, and
>> my race fitness was really improved by these rides. In a place like Eugene
>> which has few races, it gave me the opportunity to push myself beyond
>> anything I had ever done before (think trying to hold Carl Maxon's wheel).
>> >
>> > Steve Scarich
>> >
>> > PS For those youngsters, Carl rode for several years in the European
>> peleton and won the U.S. Trial Championships more than once.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > OBRA mailing list
>> > obra@list.obra.org
>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 15
>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 09:47:13 -0800
>> From: Erik Long
>> To: Obra
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shootout
>> Message-ID:
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>
>> These rides always seem like a good idea.
>>
>> I lived and raced in Tucson for several years and spent many a Saturday
>> morning on the famous Shootout (a required training ride on a team I raced
>> with). That ride can be a good training tool, but it's completely illegal,
>> no matter how you want to look at it. It's a 100-rider group racing on open
>> roads with no permit, no rolling enclosure, no rules (no insurance). I've
>> been on that ride at least once when it was headed off by Tucson P.D. and
>> on many other occasions when Pileups took down a dozen riders or so,
>> hospitalizing some. Just picture the most dangerous race you've ever seen
>> at PIR - the Shootout is worse.
>>
>> Rides like the Shootout really do us no good. They make drivers hostile,
>> injure numerous riders, and perpetuate the anti-bike bias in law
>> enforcement. A weekly race series would serve Tucson much better.
>> Fortunately, Portland already has racing almost every day of the week.
>> Eugene, Bend, even Medford all have weekly races in the warm months.
>>
>> Let's support real bike racing and leave the Shootouts for the ego-driven
>> hacks.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 09:09:26 -0800
>> > From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
>> > To: obra@list.obra.org
>> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shootout
>> >
>> > Be that as it may Mike makes a good point. The Tucson Shootout has had
>> > it's share of conflict with local authorities (no doubt prompted by
>> > complaints from some members of their community). One doesn't have to
>> > use a lot of imagination to see the kind of problems a Portland version
>> > might stir up.
>> > I say be careful what you wish for.
>> >
>> > Rick Johnson
>> > Bend Oregon
>> >
>> > * * *
>> >
>> > This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 1/14/2012 7:24 AM, Steve Scarich wrote:
>> > > I guess I'll have to disagree somewhat with Mike. I rode the Eugene
>> Thursday Nighter hundreds of times and the Tucson Shootout a few times
>> while on vacation. Yes, occasionally the Eugene ride had conflicts with
>> drivers, but my recollection is that it was not all that often. Most of the
>> time, we policed ourselves pretty well. My big disagreement with Mike is
>> the value as a racing experience. I learned a lot about racing tactics, and
>> my race fitness was really improved by these rides. In a place like Eugene
>> which has few races, it gave me the opportunity to push myself beyond
>> anything I had ever done before (think trying to hold Carl Maxon's wheel).
>> > >
>> > > Steve Scarich
>> > >
>> > > PS For those youngsters, Carl rode for several years in the European
>> peleton and won the U.S. Trial Championships more than once.
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > OBRA mailing list
>> > > obra@list.obra.org
>> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > OBRA mailing list
>> > obra@list.obra.org
>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> http://list.obra.org/pipermail/obra/attachments/20120114/fe0f7898/attachment.html&gt
>> ;
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 16
>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 11:11:37 -0800
>> From: West coast Women's Cycling
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] One last plug! BTA fundraiser tonight!!!!
>> Message-ID: <4f11d36995fd7_f7124008c635c99865@lizard.obra.org.mail>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> One last reminder and then I will quit buggin y'all!
>>
>> Just a reminder that the WCWC team is hosting a fundraiser for the BTA
>> this Saturday, Jan 14 at P.A.C.E. (4829 NE MLK Blvd, Portland) from 7-9pm.
>> Come and join the fun and drink some delicious Ninkasi Beer and win some
>> awesome raffle prizes! ALL PROCEEDS FROM THE RAFFLE GO DIRECTLY TO THE
>> BTA!!!
>> Raffle items are being graciously donated by F5 Coaching, Full Motion
>> Body Works Massage Therapy, Western Bike Works and other local businesses.
>> There will be a big ticket item at the end of the night, so come and make
>> sure you buy plenty of tickets to get a good shot of winning.
>> There will also be more chances to win by competing in the AMAZING
>> MINI-BIKE OBSTACLE COURSE! Choose your weapon and show us your skillzzzz!
>> Best time gets an AWESOME prize!
>> Check out the official flier and more information at
>> WCWCTeam.wordpress.com.
>> Thanks!
>> Karey Swan
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 17
>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 11:46:49 -0800
>> From: Jessica Kaplan
>> To: OBRA
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Brand New Fuji SST 1.0 Frameset - 50cm
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>>
>> For sale is a brand new, never ridden, still in the box, 2010 Fuji SST
>> 1.0 50cm frameset
>>
>> http://2010.fujibikes.com/Road/Aero/SST-1-0.aspx
>>
>> Technically Fuji calls this a Size XS, 50cm. But this bike does not
>> fit like a 50cm! It should be called a 52cm.
>>
>> The effective top tube is about 52cm. The seat tube is 68 cm
>> (including seat mast which can be cut). This does not include the
>> seatpost mounting bracket and the saddle itself. The longest you would
>> probably ride the seat post is about 76cm from center of bottom
>> bracket to top of saddle, this is long enough for someone who is
>> 5?-10?, if you are all legs, and love a huge drop from saddle to
>> handlebar, this would be perfect. Otherwise, I would recommend this
>> bike for someone between 5?5? and 5?-7?. It would fit nicely and
>> handle like a beauty.
>>
>> The frame and seat mast weigh 1040g! This is ridiculously light! Most
>> carbon bikes weigh this much without the seatpost (on average another
>> 200-300 grams for seatpost). And the fork is only 390g. The bike is
>> very stiff (SST = Super Stiff Carbon) and was designed to be a crit
>> racer, it is twitchy and fast.
>>
>> MSRP for the frame is ~$3,000.
>>
>> If you are interested, make me an offer!
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> End of OBRA Digest, Vol 73, Issue 14
>> ************************************
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Wm.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

William Laubernds

Having been on the UEF ride many times, I would stress that I have never
seen anyone breaking traffic laws or riding illegally. Russell and other
riders would not tolerate that.

After the first neutral lap, the ride can get spirited at times. Which
works well since the route travels on either out-and-backs or loops. Also,
if there are flats, the ride doesn't stop; that person just reverses the
loop to catch back on. Great winter training ride for anyone in the PDX
area that accommodates varying fitness levels. Large turn outs too.

On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 12:29 PM, wrote:

> I think PDX has a shoot out style ride already every Sunday at UEF they
> meet and ride out HWY 30 to sauvies once they hit sauvies it gets fast and
> they then head out hwy 30 up a climb and head home. It's a total of 75
> miles if you get dropped then you can group up with others that have been
> as well, happens evey Sunday. Pretty sure it's just like the shoot out.
> Russell Cree can inform you more.
>
> Cheers
> Mark Duff - President
> Veloforma, Inc.
> WHQ: 41991 NW Woollen Rd, Banks, OR 97106
> Mail: PO Box 185, Banks, OR 97106
> 503.789.6735
> www.veloforma.com
> www.twitter.com/veloforma
> www.corsaconcepts.com
>
> NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments are
> privileged and confidential and intended only for the use of the intended
> recipient(s). If the reader hereof is neither the intended recipient nor
> the employee or agent thereof, who is responsible for delivering this
> information to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> forwarding, disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in
> reliance upon the content hereof is strictly prohibited. If you have
> received this email in error, please notify us immediately at 503.789.6735or reply email to the sender, and please delete the email and all
> attachments from your computer. Thank you.
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: OBRA Digest, Vol 73, Issue 14
> From: obra-request@list.obra.org
> Date: Sat, January 14, 2012 12:00 pm
> To: obra@list.obra.org
>
> Send OBRA mailing list submissions to
> obra@list.obra.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> obra-request@list.obra.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> obra-owner@list.obra.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of OBRA digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. FS: Rolf Vigor SL wheelset-$450 (Adam Artner)
> 2. FS: Rolf Vigor SL wheelset-$450 (Adam Artner)
> 3. FS: Specialzed Crux Comp 54cm cyclocross (Rich Slingsby)
> 4. FS: roller, 1up trainer, krome (Jim Stuck)
> 5. FS: 2008 Felt F55 - $1100 (mace jc)
> 6. FS: New 2011 Cutter Carbon Cyclocross Frame - $600 (SE PDX)
> (Matt Lichtenfels)
> 7. FS: Yuba Mundo 2.0 $1k obo lots of extras (Brooke)
> 8. Portland Shootout (Quinn Keogh)
> 9. Re: Portland Shootout (Mike Murray)
> 10. Shootout (Steve Scarich)
> 11. Does anyone have? (Carl Hoefer)
> 12. Meet the Team Ride (Mark Adamski)
> 13. Re: Shootout (Andrew Springer)
> 14. Re: Shootout (Rick Johnson)
> 15. Re: Shootout (Erik Long)
> 16. One last plug! BTA fundraiser tonight!!!!
> (West coast Women's Cycling)
> 17. FS: Brand New Fuji SST 1.0 Frameset - 50cm (Jessica Kaplan)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 14:26:08 -0800
> From: Adam Artner
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Rolf Vigor SL wheelset-$450
> Message-ID: <4f10af802a7be_f7134008c635c118687@lizard.obra.org.mail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> For sale are my 2011 rolf prima vigor sl wheels. Good Shape, True rims,
> Roll smooth, good braking track. Only blemishes are from a mal-aligned
> brake pad and a scuff on a couple spokes. These are great wheels and need a
> home quick. Asking $450+shipping to wherever you are.
>
> Call (541)941-5888 or email adamartner@yahoo.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 14:28:16 -0800
> From: Adam Artner
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Rolf Vigor SL wheelset-$450
> Message-ID: <4f10b0006c11f_f7154008c635c12244@lizard.obra.org.mail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Here's the CL ad with Photos:
>
>
> http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/bik/2798561473.html
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 15:03:30 -0800 (PST)
> From: Rich Slingsby
> To: "obra@list.obra.org"
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Specialzed Crux Comp 54cm cyclocross
> Message-ID:
> <1326495810.22162.YahooMailNeo@web160506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Specialized Crux comp cyclocross 54cm - $1000 (ne portland)
> ________________________________
> Date: 2012-01-09, 6:46PM PST
> Reply to:?your anonymous craigslist address will appear here
> ________________________________
>
>
> 2011Specialized Crux comp 54 cm cyclocross bike
> Fits 5'9"-5'10" ish sized person.
> Alloy E5 Frameset with tapered carbon forkset "( no brake shudder)
> SRAM apex components
> BB30 FSA gossamer crankset
> Roval wheelset
> Sram Apex rear der , Sram Apex front derailleur, Apex shifters brake
> levers.
> Carbon post. Very adjustable Specialized stem.
> Great cyclocross race bike , or do everything bike
> Bike is in excellent condition. 6 months since new.
> Thanks for looking
>
>
>
> http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/2781925381.html
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rich
> 503-319-7679
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 15:06:33 -0800
> From: Jim Stuck
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: roller, 1up trainer, krome
> Message-ID: <4f10b8f99886d_f7144008c635c540ee@lizard.obra.org.mail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Travel Trac folding rollers, $80
> good shape, used lightly.
>
> 1up trainer, $175
> http://www.1upusa.com/bike_trainer.html
> super shape, made in the USA with a lifetime guarantee
>
> Krome Metropolis messenger bag, $80,
> Like new, used very little, red/black.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 16:13:06 -0800 (PST)
> From: mace jc
> To: "obra@list.obra.org"
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: 2008 Felt F55 - $1100
> Message-ID:
> <1326499986.10935.YahooMailNeo@web161802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Still for sale.?
> 2008 Felt F55 for sale. Size 54cm (runs large, closer to a 55cm.).
> Excellent shape and very clean. Very few signs of wear.
> Raced a few times, never crashed. Has just never really fit all that well.
> Easton EA50 90mm. stem.
> Dura Ace 6600 10 speed. DA brakes. Easton Vista SL wheelset with new
> Vittoria Diamante Pro Lite tires.
> FSA carbon pro compact crankset (ISIS BB). 11-25 DA cassette.
> DA front and rear derailleurs. Newer big and small FSA rings.
> Carbon fork and tail. New and bar tape cables all around.
> $1100. Pretty firm on the price. Pics available upon request.
> OBRA folks, Feel free to bring shoes and cleats.
> Email with questions or PH: 503-347-8005.
> Better pics on request.
> ?
> Thanks for looking!? Jess
> ?
> http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/2789330119.html
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 17:00:12 -0800
> From: Matt Lichtenfels
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: New 2011 Cutter Carbon Cyclocross Frame -
> $600 (SE PDX)
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Selling a new 2011 52cm Cutter Carbon Cyclocross Frame purchased earlier
> this year through www.realcyclist.com .Purchased for $1159 through the
> website. The new, never been built frame is full carbon and includes a
> carbon fork with uncut aluminum 1 1/8" steerer. I've added an integrated
> drop-in Ritchey WCS sealed headset and Shimano Pro front canti brake hangar
> that are included in the sale. The frame is cross-specific (53 cm effective
> TT) frame is super beefy, understated, and gorgeous. Must see to believe.
> Hate to see it go but traveling to much to take up cross. Now asking $600.
> The new 46cm FSA carbon bar ($250) and new 90mm Shimano PLT carbon stem
> ($175) shown in the photos here
> http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/2790265705.html adds $100.
>
> http://www.realcyclist.com/cutter-801-carbon-cx-sram-apex
>
> Hit me with any questions and thanks for looking!
>
> Matt
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 17:57:18 -0800
> From: Brooke
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Yuba Mundo 2.0 $1k obo lots of extras
> Message-ID: <4f10e0fe6b517_f7154008c635c1234ae@lizard.obra.org.mail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hello All,
> We are selling our Mundo 2.0 (bright orange) which comes with an upgraded
> kickstand, the Peanut Shell child seat, as well as a Soft Spot seat and one
> HUGE "Go-Getter" bag. SE PDX.
>
> Thanks!
> Brooke
>
> Please feel free to write with any questions...I'll answer them as I am
> able. beautybybike@gmail.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 18:25:40 -0800
> From: Quinn Keogh
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Portland Shootout
> Message-ID: <4f10e7a4bd636_f7144008c635c5555a@lizard.obra.org.mail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I just got back from riding for a week in Tucson. I rode their Shootout
> Ride and found myself (again) wondering why Portland doesn't have a similar
> weekly group ride. About 100 riders show up every Saturday morning and
> meander out of town. The route never changes. Once past the last light out
> of town the pace goes way up and the 45 minute "race" begins. After the
> finish people either tack on a climbing loop or head back to town. Total
> time without extra loop is about 2:30. Eugene has a Thursday night ride
> that is similar, it begins once the light is adequate.
> I guess the closest thing presently is the Lawyers' Rides. Was there ever
> a weekend training race in Portland? Where did it go? Where was the
> "finish"?
> Based on responses to this post I'd like to get such a ride started, so
> please put in your two cents.
>
> -Quinn
>
> Disclaimer: The contents of this email are strictly intended for bipedal
> mammalian recipients. All others may be prosecuted or domesticated.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 05:33:58 +0000
> From: "Mike Murray"
> To: "remailer, OBRA"
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Portland Shootout
> Message-ID:
> <192680742-1326519238-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net
> -580042217-@b25.c11.bise6.blackberry>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> I have ridden the Shootout too. There are similar rides in many cities. My
> theory as to why Portland doesn't have one is because we have so many
> official races. To my mind this is a good thing as rides like the Shootout
> and other non-authorised open road races often encourage dangerous behavior
> and do very little to help and possibly harm the opinion of racing cyclists
> in the minds of the public. I don't think they really even help the racing
> cyclists themselves. It is a bit like street drag racing for cars. Racing
> should be done with road controls, rules, officials, etc. Otherwise it
> should just be riding.
>
> Mike Murray
> Sent via BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Quinn Keogh
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 18:25:40
> To:
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Portland Shootout
>
> I just got back from riding for a week in Tucson. I rode their Shootout
> Ride and found myself (again) wondering why Portland doesn't have a similar
> weekly group ride. About 100 riders show up every Saturday morning and
> meander out of town. The route never changes. Once past the last light out
> of town the pace goes way up and the 45 minute "race" begins. After the
> finish people either tack on a climbing loop or head back to town. Total
> time without extra loop is about 2:30. Eugene has a Thursday night ride
> that is similar, it begins once the light is adequate.
> I guess the closest thing presently is the Lawyers' Rides. Was there ever
> a weekend training race in Portland? Where did it go? Where was the
> "finish"?
> Based on responses to this post I'd like to get such a ride started, so
> please put in your two cents.
>
> -Quinn
>
> Disclaimer: The contents of this email are strictly intended for bipedal
> mammalian recipients. All others may be prosecuted or domesticated.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 07:24:26 -0800
> From: Steve Scarich
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Shootout
> Message-ID: <4f119e2ac187d_f7124008c635c98863@lizard.obra.org.mail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I guess I'll have to disagree somewhat with Mike. I rode the Eugene
> Thursday Nighter hundreds of times and the Tucson Shootout a few times
> while on vacation. Yes, occasionally the Eugene ride had conflicts with
> drivers, but my recollection is that it was not all that often. Most of the
> time, we policed ourselves pretty well. My big disagreement with Mike is
> the value as a racing experience. I learned a lot about racing tactics, and
> my race fitness was really improved by these rides. In a place like Eugene
> which has few races, it gave me the opportunity to push myself beyond
> anything I had ever done before (think trying to hold Carl Maxon's wheel).
>
> Steve Scarich
>
> PS For those youngsters, Carl rode for several years in the European
> peleton and won the U.S. Trial Championships more than once.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 07:28:39 -0800
> From: Carl Hoefer
> To: "obra@list.obra.org"
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Does anyone have?
> Message-ID: <1226B024-FA4C-4571-9F55-0EE613D53937@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> About 30 black Nokon shift links? Maybe 15 for brake? I need a little
> extra for routing on my TT bike.
>
> All the best,
>
> Carl Hoefer
>
> ACME Business Consulting | 971-404-5665 | @carlhoefer
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 08:15:31 -0800
> From: Mark Adamski
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Meet the Team Ride
> Message-ID: <4f11aa2347135_f7124008c635c9914b@lizard.obra.org.mail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Our Meet the Team Ride is still on for tomorrow, Sunday.
>
> Bring warm, dry clothes.
>
> For those who can't make it or want to sit out the bad weather, we will be
> having a second Meet the Team Ride on February 19th at 9 a.m.
>
> Again the details for tomorrow are:
>
> Portobello-A Better Cycle is hosting a Meet the Team Ride Sunday, Jan.
> 15th.
>
> We will be leaving for a 2+ hour social, no-drop ride from A Better Cycle
> located at 2324 SE Division Street in Portland at 9 a.m.
>
> Get there a few minutes early and enjoy coffee on us.
>
> If you can't make the ride but are interested in learning more contact me.
>
> Mark Adamski
> 503 756 6089
> bikeracing@portobellopdx.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 08:18:50 -0800
> From: Andrew Springer
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shootout
> Message-ID: <4f11aaea190d6_f7124008c635c99241@lizard.obra.org.mail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I would LOVE to see a shootout get started here in Portland. Though the
> shootout can be raced if inclined, there is a large enough group of varying
> fitness levels that everyone ends up in a group ride. If you are inclined
> to race, and get dropped, it provides a great deal of structure by being
> the same route at the same time each week. Riders can set goals and
> practice sections to stay with the big dogs a little further each week as
> they progress in fitness. In my experience riding The Shootout, I think it
> compliments organized racing very well. (free is always good) From a
> cycling community perspective, Portland cyclists could benefit greatly from
> a ride like the shootout. I have many friends in Tucson and am envious of
> the camaraderie they have, based in no small part to The Shootout.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 09:09:26 -0800
> From: Rick Johnson
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shootout
> Message-ID: <4F11B6C6.6030702@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Be that as it may Mike makes a good point. The Tucson Shootout has had
> it's share of conflict with local authorities (no doubt prompted by
> complaints from some members of their community). One doesn't have to
> use a lot of imagination to see the kind of problems a Portland version
> might stir up.
> I say be careful what you wish for.
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend Oregon
>
> * * *
>
> This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions
>
>
>
> On 1/14/2012 7:24 AM, Steve Scarich wrote:
> > I guess I'll have to disagree somewhat with Mike. I rode the Eugene
> Thursday Nighter hundreds of times and the Tucson Shootout a few times
> while on vacation. Yes, occasionally the Eugene ride had conflicts with
> drivers, but my recollection is that it was not all that often. Most of the
> time, we policed ourselves pretty well. My big disagreement with Mike is
> the value as a racing experience. I learned a lot about racing tactics, and
> my race fitness was really improved by these rides. In a place like Eugene
> which has few races, it gave me the opportunity to push myself beyond
> anything I had ever done before (think trying to hold Carl Maxon's wheel).
> >
> > Steve Scarich
> >
> > PS For those youngsters, Carl rode for several years in the European
> peleton and won the U.S. Trial Championships more than once.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 09:47:13 -0800
> From: Erik Long
> To: Obra
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shootout
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> These rides always seem like a good idea.
>
> I lived and raced in Tucson for several years and spent many a Saturday
> morning on the famous Shootout (a required training ride on a team I raced
> with). That ride can be a good training tool, but it's completely illegal,
> no matter how you want to look at it. It's a 100-rider group racing on open
> roads with no permit, no rolling enclosure, no rules (no insurance). I've
> been on that ride at least once when it was headed off by Tucson P.D. and
> on many other occasions when Pileups took down a dozen riders or so,
> hospitalizing some. Just picture the most dangerous race you've ever seen
> at PIR - the Shootout is worse.
>
> Rides like the Shootout really do us no good. They make drivers hostile,
> injure numerous riders, and perpetuate the anti-bike bias in law
> enforcement. A weekly race series would serve Tucson much better.
> Fortunately, Portland already has racing almost every day of the week.
> Eugene, Bend, even Medford all have weekly races in the warm months.
>
> Let's support real bike racing and leave the Shootouts for the ego-driven
> hacks.
>
>
>
> > Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 09:09:26 -0800
> > From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Shootout
> >
> > Be that as it may Mike makes a good point. The Tucson Shootout has had
> > it's share of conflict with local authorities (no doubt prompted by
> > complaints from some members of their community). One doesn't have to
> > use a lot of imagination to see the kind of problems a Portland version
> > might stir up.
> > I say be careful what you wish for.
> >
> > Rick Johnson
> > Bend Oregon
> >
> > * * *
> >
> > This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions
> >
> >
> >
> > On 1/14/2012 7:24 AM, Steve Scarich wrote:
> > > I guess I'll have to disagree somewhat with Mike. I rode the Eugene
> Thursday Nighter hundreds of times and the Tucson Shootout a few times
> while on vacation. Yes, occasionally the Eugene ride had conflicts with
> drivers, but my recollection is that it was not all that often. Most of the
> time, we policed ourselves pretty well. My big disagreement with Mike is
> the value as a racing experience. I learned a lot about racing tactics, and
> my race fitness was really improved by these rides. In a place like Eugene
> which has few races, it gave me the opportunity to push myself beyond
> anything I had ever done before (think trying to hold Carl Maxon's wheel).
> > >
> > > Steve Scarich
> > >
> > > PS For those youngsters, Carl rode for several years in the European
> peleton and won the U.S. Trial Championships more than once.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 11:11:37 -0800
> From: West coast Women's Cycling
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] One last plug! BTA fundraiser tonight!!!!
> Message-ID: <4f11d36995fd7_f7124008c635c99865@lizard.obra.org.mail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> One last reminder and then I will quit buggin y'all!
>
> Just a reminder that the WCWC team is hosting a fundraiser for the BTA
> this Saturday, Jan 14 at P.A.C.E. (4829 NE MLK Blvd, Portland) from 7-9pm.
> Come and join the fun and drink some delicious Ninkasi Beer and win some
> awesome raffle prizes! ALL PROCEEDS FROM THE RAFFLE GO DIRECTLY TO THE
> BTA!!!
> Raffle items are being graciously donated by F5 Coaching, Full Motion Body
> Works Massage Therapy, Western Bike Works and other local businesses. There
> will be a big ticket item at the end of the night, so come and make sure
> you buy plenty of tickets to get a good shot of winning.
> There will also be more chances to win by competing in the AMAZING
> MINI-BIKE OBSTACLE COURSE! Choose your weapon and show us your skillzzzz!
> Best time gets an AWESOME prize!
> Check out the official flier and more information at
> WCWCTeam.wordpress.com.
> Thanks!
> Karey Swan
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 11:46:49 -0800
> From: Jessica Kaplan
> To: OBRA
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Brand New Fuji SST 1.0 Frameset - 50cm
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> For sale is a brand new, never ridden, still in the box, 2010 Fuji SST
> 1.0 50cm frameset
>
> http://2010.fujibikes.com/Road/Aero/SST-1-0.aspx
>
> Technically Fuji calls this a Size XS, 50cm. But this bike does not
> fit like a 50cm! It should be called a 52cm.
>
> The effective top tube is about 52cm. The seat tube is 68 cm
> (including seat mast which can be cut). This does not include the
> seatpost mounting bracket and the saddle itself. The longest you would
> probably ride the seat post is about 76cm from center of bottom
> bracket to top of saddle, this is long enough for someone who is
> 5?-10?, if you are all legs, and love a huge drop from saddle to
> handlebar, this would be perfect. Otherwise, I would recommend this
> bike for someone between 5?5? and 5?-7?. It would fit nicely and
> handle like a beauty.
>
> The frame and seat mast weigh 1040g! This is ridiculously light! Most
> carbon bikes weigh this much without the seatpost (on average another
> 200-300 grams for seatpost). And the fork is only 390g. The bike is
> very stiff (SST = Super Stiff Carbon) and was designed to be a crit
> racer, it is twitchy and fast.
>
> MSRP for the frame is ~$3,000.
>
> If you are interested, make me an offer!
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
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>
>
> End of OBRA Digest, Vol 73, Issue 14
> ************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Wm.

mark@veloforma.com