Josh LeBus

Tym, I was amidst those "infractions" and heard you barking from the right. I agree it's frustrating to see people take advantage of the rules but I feel it was due to the ambiguity of how that section might play out. Our group had just overtaken a farmer in a golf cart which pushed the whole group left and it took time to resituate to the right. This left several to the left to surge ahead. By virtue of the gravel and the clear lines vs the soft gravel it's not super easy to just drift back over the "virtual" yellow line. We're not riding smooth pavement. This issue allowed for the "said" rider to exploit this circumstance and he'll be "that" guy, If only we had a number.

I'd also note that if you look at posted pics most groups, men 1-2 included, are spread into both natural lanes of the road.

2 cents

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 9, 2012, at 5:36 PM, Tym wrote:

> Saturday I witnessed a lot of centerline violations in the Cat 3 field. While not as disrespectful as public urination, it is still against the rules and spirit of OBRA. Most of these infractions were witnessed in the gravel sections. Hugh had made it clear before the event that there was a virtual centerline in effect through the gravel sections. In addition I, and several others saw a rider attack by going clear across the road before coming back to the right side of the road. This same rider then continued to weave across the centerline while on the pavement.
>
> This questionable "tactic" disrespects every other rider who is playing by the rules. The center line violation is there for rider safety, and crossing it to get a leg up on your fellow racers puts everyone at risk. Please don't make up for your bad position or lack of a good line by jumping across the line to get near the front. Beyond that think about how a major accident could effect future races. We want to keep racing in Oregon difficult, fun and most of all safe. In the end it is impossible for the officials to see everything (especially in the chaos of the gravel section) and it is up to us to police ourselves.
>
> Just some things to think about.
> Tym
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

brandon

Did someone not make it onto the podium? (said with a pouty face and a goo goo baby voice)
J/K
Brandon

On Apr 9, 2012, at 8:50 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:

> Perhaps we should just have a lottery for "enforcers" and issue out some paint ball guns to them before the race, each one with a different color.
> Anyone who finishes tagged by more than one color gets relegated.
> :-D
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend, Oregon
>
> Every revolutionary idea seems to evoke three stages of reaction...
> One, it's completely impossible.
> Two, it's possible, but it's not worth doing.
> Three, I said it was a good idea all along.
>
> Arthur C. Clarke
>
>
> On 4/9/2012 7:43 PM, Tym L. wrote:
>> Tim,
>> I agree, and I and other riders can tell you I was anything but passive as I was screaming at other riders as they did this. I couldn't confront every one directly, as I couldn't tell who every one was either. I assume the officials couldn't see it as the gravel sections were complete chaos and dust clouds. With the tricky handling situation and chaos of the group I couldn't really tell who each person was that was doing this (much less not bib numbers), so I wouldn't expect the officials to be doing this.
>> I'm mostly just asking that in the future, riders take some personal responsibility and not do it. Plain and simple. No whining that nothing was done about it at the time. I know shit happens and the race is done and dusted. I'd just appreciate it not happen in the future.
>>
>> Tym
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 9, 2012, at 7:03 PM, Tim Schauer wrote:
>>
>>> As much as it might feel awkward at the time, I personally advise you
>>> either report these self-absorbed obvious repeat violators to the
>>> officials (either the to the follow car during the race or after at
>>> the finish) or better yet muster the assertiveness to confront him
>>> during the race. Tell them you saw it, you have their number, and if
>>> they do it again you will absolutely report it. You'd be surprised how
>>> many supporters you gain in the peleton. Yell at them when they do it
>>> and call them out by their bib number, even if you know their name. It
>>> reminds them the group doesn't take kindly to cheaters. Others will
>>> chime in too....
>>>
>>> Cheating is a choice. Passivity while others cheat is choice. Policing
>>> ourselves is also a choice.
>>>
>>> Officials might have seen it but couldn't read the number from their
>>> vantage point.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents,
>>>
>>> Tim Schauer
>>>
>>> Sent from my mobile device
>>>
>>> On Apr 9, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Tym wrote:
>>>
>>>> Saturday I witnessed a lot of centerline violations in the Cat 3 field. While not as disrespectful as public urination, it is still against the rules and spirit of OBRA. Most of these infractions were witnessed in the gravel sections. Hugh had made it clear before the event that there was a virtual centerline in effect through the gravel sections. In addition I, and several others saw a rider attack by going clear across the road before coming back to the right side of the road. This same rider then continued to weave across the centerline while on the pavement.
>>>>
>>>> This questionable "tactic" disrespects every other rider who is playing by the rules. The center line violation is there for rider safety, and crossing it to get a leg up on your fellow racers puts everyone at risk. Please don't make up for your bad position or lack of a good line by jumping across the line to get near the front. Beyond that think about how a major accident could effect future races. We want to keep racing in Oregon difficult, fun and most of all safe. In the end it is impossible for the officials to see everything (especially in the chaos of the gravel section) and it is up to us to police ourselves.
>>>>
>>>> Just some things to think about.
>>>> Tym
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

BM
360.561.8173
mace6045@gmail.com

Rick Johnson

We could address the public urination problem the same way.
Of course the color for that would be yellow, and the penalty
disqualification.

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

Every revolutionary idea seems to evoke three stages of reaction...
One, it's completely impossible.
Two, it's possible, but it's not worth doing.
Three, I said it was a good idea all along.

Arthur C. Clarke

On 4/9/2012 7:50 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:
> Perhaps we should just have a lottery for "enforcers" and issue out
> some paint ball guns to them before the race, each one with a
> different color.
> Anyone who finishes tagged by more than one color gets relegated.
> :-D
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend, Oregon
>
> Every revolutionary idea seems to evoke three stages of reaction...
> One, it's completely impossible.
> Two, it's possible, but it's not worth doing.
> Three, I said it was a good idea all along.
>
> Arthur C. Clarke
>
>
> On 4/9/2012 7:43 PM, Tym L. wrote:
>> Tim,
>> I agree, and I and other riders can tell you I was anything but
>> passive as I was screaming at other riders as they did this. I
>> couldn't confront every one directly, as I couldn't tell who every
>> one was either. I assume the officials couldn't see it as the gravel
>> sections were complete chaos and dust clouds. With the tricky
>> handling situation and chaos of the group I couldn't really tell who
>> each person was that was doing this (much less not bib numbers), so I
>> wouldn't expect the officials to be doing this.
>> I'm mostly just asking that in the future, riders take some personal
>> responsibility and not do it. Plain and simple. No whining that
>> nothing was done about it at the time. I know shit happens and the
>> race is done and dusted. I'd just appreciate it not happen in the
>> future.
>>
>> Tym
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 9, 2012, at 7:03 PM, Tim Schauer
>> wrote:
>>
>>> As much as it might feel awkward at the time, I personally advise you
>>> either report these self-absorbed obvious repeat violators to the
>>> officials (either the to the follow car during the race or after at
>>> the finish) or better yet muster the assertiveness to confront him
>>> during the race. Tell them you saw it, you have their number, and if
>>> they do it again you will absolutely report it. You'd be surprised how
>>> many supporters you gain in the peleton. Yell at them when they do it
>>> and call them out by their bib number, even if you know their name. It
>>> reminds them the group doesn't take kindly to cheaters. Others will
>>> chime in too....
>>>
>>> Cheating is a choice. Passivity while others cheat is choice. Policing
>>> ourselves is also a choice.
>>>
>>> Officials might have seen it but couldn't read the number from their
>>> vantage point.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents,
>>>
>>> Tim Schauer
>>>
>>> Sent from my mobile device
>>>
>>> On Apr 9, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Tym wrote:
>>>
>>>> Saturday I witnessed a lot of centerline violations in the Cat 3
>>>> field. While not as disrespectful as public urination, it is still
>>>> against the rules and spirit of OBRA. Most of these infractions
>>>> were witnessed in the gravel sections. Hugh had made it clear
>>>> before the event that there was a virtual centerline in effect
>>>> through the gravel sections. In addition I, and several others saw
>>>> a rider attack by going clear across the road before coming back to
>>>> the right side of the road. This same rider then continued to weave
>>>> across the centerline while on the pavement.
>>>>
>>>> This questionable "tactic" disrespects every other rider who is
>>>> playing by the rules. The center line violation is there for rider
>>>> safety, and crossing it to get a leg up on your fellow racers puts
>>>> everyone at risk. Please don't make up for your bad position or
>>>> lack of a good line by jumping across the line to get near the
>>>> front. Beyond that think about how a major accident could effect
>>>> future races. We want to keep racing in Oregon difficult, fun and
>>>> most of all safe. In the end it is impossible for the officials to
>>>> see everything (especially in the chaos of the gravel section) and
>>>> it is up to us to police ourselves.
>>>>
>>>> Just some things to think about.
>>>> Tym
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Rick Johnson

Perhaps we should just have a lottery for "enforcers" and issue out some
paint ball guns to them before the race, each one with a different color.
Anyone who finishes tagged by more than one color gets relegated.
:-D

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

Every revolutionary idea seems to evoke three stages of reaction...
One, it's completely impossible.
Two, it's possible, but it's not worth doing.
Three, I said it was a good idea all along.

Arthur C. Clarke

On 4/9/2012 7:43 PM, Tym L. wrote:
> Tim,
> I agree, and I and other riders can tell you I was anything but passive as I was screaming at other riders as they did this. I couldn't confront every one directly, as I couldn't tell who every one was either. I assume the officials couldn't see it as the gravel sections were complete chaos and dust clouds. With the tricky handling situation and chaos of the group I couldn't really tell who each person was that was doing this (much less not bib numbers), so I wouldn't expect the officials to be doing this.
> I'm mostly just asking that in the future, riders take some personal responsibility and not do it. Plain and simple. No whining that nothing was done about it at the time. I know shit happens and the race is done and dusted. I'd just appreciate it not happen in the future.
>
> Tym
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 9, 2012, at 7:03 PM, Tim Schauer wrote:
>
>> As much as it might feel awkward at the time, I personally advise you
>> either report these self-absorbed obvious repeat violators to the
>> officials (either the to the follow car during the race or after at
>> the finish) or better yet muster the assertiveness to confront him
>> during the race. Tell them you saw it, you have their number, and if
>> they do it again you will absolutely report it. You'd be surprised how
>> many supporters you gain in the peleton. Yell at them when they do it
>> and call them out by their bib number, even if you know their name. It
>> reminds them the group doesn't take kindly to cheaters. Others will
>> chime in too....
>>
>> Cheating is a choice. Passivity while others cheat is choice. Policing
>> ourselves is also a choice.
>>
>> Officials might have seen it but couldn't read the number from their
>> vantage point.
>>
>> My 2 cents,
>>
>> Tim Schauer
>>
>> Sent from my mobile device
>>
>> On Apr 9, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Tym wrote:
>>
>>> Saturday I witnessed a lot of centerline violations in the Cat 3 field. While not as disrespectful as public urination, it is still against the rules and spirit of OBRA. Most of these infractions were witnessed in the gravel sections. Hugh had made it clear before the event that there was a virtual centerline in effect through the gravel sections. In addition I, and several others saw a rider attack by going clear across the road before coming back to the right side of the road. This same rider then continued to weave across the centerline while on the pavement.
>>>
>>> This questionable "tactic" disrespects every other rider who is playing by the rules. The center line violation is there for rider safety, and crossing it to get a leg up on your fellow racers puts everyone at risk. Please don't make up for your bad position or lack of a good line by jumping across the line to get near the front. Beyond that think about how a major accident could effect future races. We want to keep racing in Oregon difficult, fun and most of all safe. In the end it is impossible for the officials to see everything (especially in the chaos of the gravel section) and it is up to us to police ourselves.
>>>
>>> Just some things to think about.
>>> Tym
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Tym L.

Tim,
I agree, and I and other riders can tell you I was anything but passive as I was screaming at other riders as they did this. I couldn't confront every one directly, as I couldn't tell who every one was either. I assume the officials couldn't see it as the gravel sections were complete chaos and dust clouds. With the tricky handling situation and chaos of the group I couldn't really tell who each person was that was doing this (much less not bib numbers), so I wouldn't expect the officials to be doing this.
I'm mostly just asking that in the future, riders take some personal responsibility and not do it. Plain and simple. No whining that nothing was done about it at the time. I know shit happens and the race is done and dusted. I'd just appreciate it not happen in the future.

Tym

On Apr 9, 2012, at 7:03 PM, Tim Schauer wrote:

> As much as it might feel awkward at the time, I personally advise you
> either report these self-absorbed obvious repeat violators to the
> officials (either the to the follow car during the race or after at
> the finish) or better yet muster the assertiveness to confront him
> during the race. Tell them you saw it, you have their number, and if
> they do it again you will absolutely report it. You'd be surprised how
> many supporters you gain in the peleton. Yell at them when they do it
> and call them out by their bib number, even if you know their name. It
> reminds them the group doesn't take kindly to cheaters. Others will
> chime in too....
>
> Cheating is a choice. Passivity while others cheat is choice. Policing
> ourselves is also a choice.
>
> Officials might have seen it but couldn't read the number from their
> vantage point.
>
> My 2 cents,
>
> Tim Schauer
>
> Sent from my mobile device
>
> On Apr 9, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Tym wrote:
>
>> Saturday I witnessed a lot of centerline violations in the Cat 3 field. While not as disrespectful as public urination, it is still against the rules and spirit of OBRA. Most of these infractions were witnessed in the gravel sections. Hugh had made it clear before the event that there was a virtual centerline in effect through the gravel sections. In addition I, and several others saw a rider attack by going clear across the road before coming back to the right side of the road. This same rider then continued to weave across the centerline while on the pavement.
>>
>> This questionable "tactic" disrespects every other rider who is playing by the rules. The center line violation is there for rider safety, and crossing it to get a leg up on your fellow racers puts everyone at risk. Please don't make up for your bad position or lack of a good line by jumping across the line to get near the front. Beyond that think about how a major accident could effect future races. We want to keep racing in Oregon difficult, fun and most of all safe. In the end it is impossible for the officials to see everything (especially in the chaos of the gravel section) and it is up to us to police ourselves.
>>
>> Just some things to think about.
>> Tym
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Tym L.

Not whining, as I'm not asking anything to be done except people take some personal responsibility to respect the rules in the future.
This just happened to be the first chance I had to mention it. Not really into snitching either, tho I did directly call out a rider or two after they did it.

Tym

On Apr 9, 2012, at 6:45 PM, Shane Gibson wrote:

>
> Tym - I agree with you basic statement. If you witnessed this happening, take the riders number - they've got them pinned on their bodies. Then report it to the Chief Judge or other official as soon as you cross the finish line. That's why they're there - to handle these types of issues (if necessary). Don't whine about it on OBRA days later. Do something about it at the race ... IMHO ...
>
> ~~shane
>
> --
> "Opportunities multiply as they are seized." - Sun Tzu
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Tym wrote:
> Saturday I witnessed a lot of centerline violations in the Cat 3 field. While not as disrespectful as public urination, it is still against the rules and spirit of OBRA. Most of these infractions were witnessed in the gravel sections. Hugh had made it clear before the event that there was a virtual centerline in effect through the gravel sections. In addition I, and several others saw a rider attack by going clear across the road before coming back to the right side of the road. This same rider then continued to weave across the centerline while on the pavement.
>
> This questionable "tactic" disrespects every other rider who is playing by the rules. The center line violation is there for rider safety, and crossing it to get a leg up on your fellow racers puts everyone at risk. Please don't make up for your bad position or lack of a good line by jumping across the line to get near the front. Beyond that think about how a major accident could effect future races. We want to keep racing in Oregon difficult, fun and most of all safe. In the end it is impossible for the officials to see everything (especially in the chaos of the gravel section) and it is up to us to police ourselves.
>
> Just some things to think about.
> Tym
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Tim Schauer

As much as it might feel awkward at the time, I personally advise you
either report these self-absorbed obvious repeat violators to the
officials (either the to the follow car during the race or after at
the finish) or better yet muster the assertiveness to confront him
during the race. Tell them you saw it, you have their number, and if
they do it again you will absolutely report it. You'd be surprised how
many supporters you gain in the peleton. Yell at them when they do it
and call them out by their bib number, even if you know their name. It
reminds them the group doesn't take kindly to cheaters. Others will
chime in too....

Cheating is a choice. Passivity while others cheat is choice. Policing
ourselves is also a choice.

Officials might have seen it but couldn't read the number from their
vantage point.

My 2 cents,

Tim Schauer

Sent from my mobile device

On Apr 9, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Tym wrote:

> Saturday I witnessed a lot of centerline violations in the Cat 3 field. While not as disrespectful as public urination, it is still against the rules and spirit of OBRA. Most of these infractions were witnessed in the gravel sections. Hugh had made it clear before the event that there was a virtual centerline in effect through the gravel sections. In addition I, and several others saw a rider attack by going clear across the road before coming back to the right side of the road. This same rider then continued to weave across the centerline while on the pavement.
>
> This questionable "tactic" disrespects every other rider who is playing by the rules. The center line violation is there for rider safety, and crossing it to get a leg up on your fellow racers puts everyone at risk. Please don't make up for your bad position or lack of a good line by jumping across the line to get near the front. Beyond that think about how a major accident could effect future races. We want to keep racing in Oregon difficult, fun and most of all safe. In the end it is impossible for the officials to see everything (especially in the chaos of the gravel section) and it is up to us to police ourselves.
>
> Just some things to think about.
> Tym
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Shane Gibson

Tym - I agree with you basic statement. If you witnessed this happening,
take the riders number - they've got them pinned on their bodies. Then
report it to the Chief Judge or other official as soon as you cross the
finish line. That's why they're there - to handle these types of issues
(if necessary). Don't whine about it on OBRA days later. Do something
about it at the race ... IMHO ...

~~shane

--
"Opportunities multiply as they are seized." - Sun Tzu

On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Tym wrote:

> Saturday I witnessed a lot of centerline violations in the Cat 3 field.
> While not as disrespectful as public urination, it is still against the
> rules and spirit of OBRA. Most of these infractions were witnessed in the
> gravel sections. Hugh had made it clear before the event that there was a
> virtual centerline in effect through the gravel sections. In addition I,
> and several others saw a rider attack by going clear across the road before
> coming back to the right side of the road. This same rider then continued
> to weave across the centerline while on the pavement.
>
> This questionable "tactic" disrespects every other rider who is playing by
> the rules. The center line violation is there for rider safety, and
> crossing it to get a leg up on your fellow racers puts everyone at risk.
> Please don't make up for your bad position or lack of a good line by
> jumping across the line to get near the front. Beyond that think about how
> a major accident could effect future races. We want to keep racing in
> Oregon difficult, fun and most of all safe. In the end it is impossible for
> the officials to see everything (especially in the chaos of the gravel
> section) and it is up to us to police ourselves.
>
> Just some things to think about.
> Tym
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Tym

Saturday I witnessed a lot of centerline violations in the Cat 3 field.
While not as disrespectful as public urination, it is still against the
rules and spirit of OBRA. Most of these infractions were witnessed in the
gravel sections. Hugh had made it clear before the event that there was a
virtual centerline in effect through the gravel sections. In addition I,
and several others saw a rider attack by going clear across the road before
coming back to the right side of the road. This same rider then continued
to weave across the centerline while on the pavement.

This questionable "tactic" disrespects every other rider who is playing by
the rules. The center line violation is there for rider safety, and
crossing it to get a leg up on your fellow racers puts everyone at risk.
Please don't make up for your bad position or lack of a good line by
jumping across the line to get near the front. Beyond that think about how
a major accident could effect future races. We want to keep racing in
Oregon difficult, fun and most of all safe. In the end it is impossible for
the officials to see everything (especially in the chaos of the gravel
section) and it is up to us to police ourselves.

Just some things to think about.
Tym