always take the lane atmo. it's the safest option for everyone.
but one of the few times i took the sidewalk i found a stringer of rainbow trout
nothing like a fishy groundscore after threshold intervals
-dd
John,
call (503) 823-SAFE and tell them about the speeding.
city of portland has authority to write those speeding tickets, but it is complaint driven, so complain! Really.
I live in st johns as well.
When they redid the bridge in 2003-ish, an idea I kept writing about was to
make it a three lane bridge. Single lanes for the first half/feeding the
bridge (well because there are single lanes "feeding" the bridge..) and
double lanes Exiting the bridge (which you need because of light
cycles) .
As far as traffic, They need to start writing speeding tickets!! Everytime
I drive across, I don't go over the speed limit, and get passed by
everyone. What the Hell ? Speed Limit is 35 (and it should be 30) , why
are people doing 45 , 50 plus !! It's like the bridge is dragstrip or
something? The st john's dragstrip ? It would be great place for a
ticketing camera. If i were the ODOT in charge I would make some dynamic
load limit arguement for bridge life / maintanence and set the speed at 30
and enforce it. That would go a long way to help with the interaction with
cyclists and pedestrians.
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 9:26 AM, Ed Groth wrote:
> I always use the lane. It's never been a problem.
>
> If I'm starting from a red light next to a bunch of cars I usually wait
> until they all start over the bridge before starting myself that way they
> don't have to pass me immediately. When the "wave" from the next light
> passes there's usually plenty of space and time for them to merge around.
>
> There's often not room to pass someone walking on the sidewalk while
> riding. Sometimes I'll walk the bike across if its a nice view.
>
> Ed
>
>
> On 4/24/12 6:19 PM, Chris Cortez wrote:
>
>> Hey OBRA,
>>
>> When you cross the St. John's bridge, do you take the pedestrian walkway
>> or the road? I have done it each way a number of times, and I can't
>> figure out which scares me more. I've had pretty close calls both ways.
>> Today a fuel tank truck in the near lane basically brushed my shoulder
>> while I was riding on the walkway. My heart restarted again, eventually.
>>
>> I'm probably just being paranoid, but I'm still fairly certain they're
>> out to get me. Should I instead just ride through NW and out 30 like we
>> do for rides from UE to Forest Park? Maybe this can also turn into the
>> thread where everybody talks about hating to ride on 30 in general? I'd
>> be OK with that.
>>
>> Discuss.
>>
>> - Chris
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/**listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/**listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
I always use the lane. It's never been a problem.
If I'm starting from a red light next to a bunch of cars I usually wait
until they all start over the bridge before starting myself that way
they don't have to pass me immediately. When the "wave" from the next
light passes there's usually plenty of space and time for them to merge
around.
There's often not room to pass someone walking on the sidewalk while
riding. Sometimes I'll walk the bike across if its a nice view.
Ed
On 4/24/12 6:19 PM, Chris Cortez wrote:
> Hey OBRA,
>
> When you cross the St. John's bridge, do you take the pedestrian walkway
> or the road? I have done it each way a number of times, and I can't
> figure out which scares me more. I've had pretty close calls both ways.
> Today a fuel tank truck in the near lane basically brushed my shoulder
> while I was riding on the walkway. My heart restarted again, eventually.
>
> I'm probably just being paranoid, but I'm still fairly certain they're
> out to get me. Should I instead just ride through NW and out 30 like we
> do for rides from UE to Forest Park? Maybe this can also turn into the
> thread where everybody talks about hating to ride on 30 in general? I'd
> be OK with that.
>
> Discuss.
>
> - Chris
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
Wow. :)
Thanks to everybody who shared your thoughts and experiences. As
always on the OBRA list, many insightful and challenging comments. I
find myself agreeing with all of them, even and especially those that
directly contradict one another. Clearly, keeping ourselves safe while
sharing the roads with cars and trucks is a complex business that
requires constant calculation and behavior modification. We have to
weigh all these possibilities in the moment, check our intuition and
our surroundings, and commit to a decision we can live with, literally
speaking.
My experiences with it over the years have turned me into a pragmatist
rather than an idealist.
I certainly agree with taking the lane when circumstances dictate, and
using the roadway on the SJB fits the bill. I have no interest in
being part of a driver's experiment to see if a car and bike can fit
side by side at speed in traffic with life or death in the margin of
error. Even when the roadway isn't busy, I tend to ride the center of
the right lane and hold my line.
I will probably continue to use the walkway if the bridge is real
busy, but I don't love that either. As Susan pointed out from my
original post, if you're headed westbound on the walkway, you may be
closer to a large truck in the far right lane than you would be were
you in the middle of that same lane and the truck had to go around
you. In this case, I know he didn't see me. I heard him behind me, and
when I started to turn my head to the left to see him, I realized he
was WAY too close for me to be turning my head that direction, so I
held my line (and my breath) instead. In the lane, the curb is indeed
tall; but there's no great bailout to the right if you're on the
walkway either. Maybe I should invent the Pannier Parachute (TM).
All that said, commuting and training in Portland is so much safer
than in Austin (where I moved from) that I can't even describe it to
you. There is nothing safe about commuting there - I did it for years
- and many/most people have a commute for which there is no cycling
solution. So mostly I try to constantly remind myself how good we have
it, and how many affordances have been created to make the road
sharing thing a little safer and easier.
The St. Johns Bridge is a stunning bridge. My girls call it "The
Castle Bridge". I love the form and the function - it leads me to some
of my favorite rides. I just need to learn how to use it better, and
all the advice in this thread is helpful to that end. The OBRA
community is awesome - perhaps the best example of how good we
cyclists have it here.
Much love,
Chris
Danny Macaskill wouldn't ride the sidewalks, he'd ride the cables!
There's a sidewalk on the St Johns Bridge? Hadn't noticed.
I've only met Susan in passing, wouldn't say that I know her.
>>You appear to feel comfortable that traffic will do what you want it
to do 100% of the time. She doesn't. I don't. The word the comes to
mind is hubris.
First, thank you for the discussion.
It isn't hubris. Really. Per Wikipedia: "Hubris means extreme pride
or arrogance. Hubris often
indicates a loss of contact with reality
and an overestimation of one's
own competence or capabilities." I understand the reality on the
roadways. I am fully aware of the risks we all face every time we climb
on our bikes. I don't over-estimate my own abilities, nor do I
underestimate some motorists' tendencies for doing truly boneheaded
things.
Neither do I fault you nor scorn you for choosing to do what you feel is
best for you at YOUR comfort level. Choosing to ride the sidewalk on
the St. John's Bridge is a perfectly reasonable decision for you to make
given your aversion to traffic.
Where I beg to differ, however, is your assertion that the St. John's
Bridge " is a fairly unique stretch of road". The curbs may be taller
than elsewhere, but that's irrelevant. What's relevant is that any
number of roadways that we regularly ride on have no shoulder, no bike
lane, and have moderate or high volumes of traffic with traffic speeds
in excess of 40mph.
When riding on those shoulderless, bikelaneless, highspeed roads ("safe"
sidewalk alongside or not), it would behoove one to learn how to
position oneself in the lane to make oneself as safe as possible. As I
stated in my original email, the position of safety on this type of road
is NOT crammed all the way over as far right as possible. Doing that
merely encourges traffic to try to squeeze by in an inappropriate manner
and causes cyclists to feel trapped or unsafe. It is far better to
control the lane instead, moving right when YOU feel it's safe to let
the motorist pass. Cyclists have much more ability to control how
motorists behave around them than one might think.
I ride predictably, wear visible clothing, use safety and reflective
gear, plenty of lights, signal my turns, wear an eyeglass mirror so I
know what is approaching from the rear, etc. All of these things
minimize (but certainly don't eliminate) the possibility of conflict
with motorists.
I'm comfortable taking the lane on the St. John's Bridge because I don't
see that it's really any different than dozens of other roads I ride on.
I'm comfortable riding the bridge because I'm aware of my surroundings
(I never ride without that eyeglass mirror and am never "startled" by an
overtaking vehicle because I see it coming), and I do my level best to
make the motorists around me aware of my presence. I'm comfortable
taking the lane because I honestly don't believe I'm safer on the
sidewalk. (The OP's original email stated "Today a fuel tank truck in
the near lane basically brushed my shoulder while I was riding on the
walkway." )
Ultimately, we each need to do what makes us most comfortable. For you,
it's the walkway. For me, the roadway.
Regardless of where you ride, I wish you tailwinds and sunny skies,
Susan
***********************************************
Susan Otcenas
Team Estrogen, Inc.
www.TeamEstrogen.com
877-310-4592
***********************************************
Follow our TE fan page on Facebook!
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***********************************************
________________________________
From: David Diviney [mailto:daviddiviney@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:26 PM
To: Susan Otcenas; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] St. John's Bridge - Pedestrian or Roadway?
We all know that's not true. This thread exists because the St John's
Bridge is a fairly unique stretch of road. Many people are hesitiant to
venture out on that road because of the tall curbs on both sides. There
is a sense that your are stuck in there, because you are. There's no
bailing on to the grass. Whether or not it's reasonable to think
bailing is an option or not is another topic.
Like a bunch of people, I have no problem riding on the road when
traffic is light. My wife cried one time riding across the bridge for 2
reasons. First, because I was yelling at her for riding on the road
when there was meaningful traffic. Second, she was scared because she
felt trapped. You appear to feel comfortable that traffic will do what
you want it to do 100% of the time. She doesn't. I don't. The word
the comes to mind is hubris. There's plenty of risk riding bikes in
traffic. I like to mitigate as much as possible. I mitigated it even
more by moving to a place where I ride traffic-free most of the time. I
miss Portland, but I like riding where I live now much better. Of
course, now that I wrote that, I'm going to get hit!
For about 29 years, I thought that getting hit by a car was something that
happened to someone else or that I read about in the paper / saw on the
news/internet. I got mine last year. Do what you need to do to feel safe,
hope the drivers behind you aren't distracted and try not to be the next
statistic.
We all know that's not true.
Listen to Susan, if you take the lane, it is also much easier for cars to see you and it forces them to slow down and check for oncoming cars on a two lane road where they might otherwise try to squeak by the cyclist and oncoming car.
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Susan Otcenas
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:04 PM
To: David Diviney; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] St. John's Bridge - Pedestrian or Roadway?
>> There is basically zero risk of getting hit by an absent minded/drunk/sun blinded/distracted/texting/malicious/incompetent motorist riding on the sidewalk. There is a non-zero percent chance you may get hit by an absent minded/drunk/sun blinded/distracted/texting/malicious/incompetent motorist if you ride on a road.
OK, sure. But by that logic, you would never ride on the road anywhere if sidewalk was present.
***********************************************
Susan Otcenas
Team Estrogen, Inc.
www.TeamEstrogen.com
877-310-4592
***********************************************
Follow our TE fan page on Facebook!
Look for "teamestrogen.com"
***********************************************
________________________________
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of David Diviney
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 3:57 PM
To: Obra List (obra@list.obra.org)
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] St. John's Bridge - Pedestrian or Roadway?
I gotta be honest with you, I will never understand this position on "asserting my rights". There is basically zero risk of getting hit by an absent minded/drunk/sun blinded/distracted/texting/malicious/incompetent motorist riding on the sidewalk. There is a non-zero percent chance you may get hit by an absent minded/drunk/sun blinded/distracted/texting/malicious/incompetent motorist if you ride on a road. Why take that risk? 15 seconds. 30 seconds?
Your right to take the lane doesn't reduce the risk or make you crash proof. We've got former-OBRA members who would attest to this...if they were still alive. But I guess it's some consolation that your family can win a lawsuit if you spend your life in a wheelchair or worse.
OK, sure. But by
that logic, you would never ride on the road anywhere if
sidewalk was present.
Rick Johnson
Bend, OregonEvery revolutionary idea seems to evoke three stages of reaction...
One, it's completely impossible.
Two, it's possible, but it's not worth doing.
Three, I said it was a good idea all along.Arthur C. Clarke
>> There is basically zero
risk of getting hit by an absent minded/drunk/sun
blinded/distracted/texting/malicious/incompetent motorist
riding on the sidewalk. There is a non-zero percent chance
you may get hit by an absent minded/drunk/sun
blinded/distracted/texting/malicious/incompetent motorist if
you ride on a road.
OK, sure. But by
that logic, you would never ride on the road anywhere if
sidewalk was present.
***********************************************
Susan Otcenas
Team Estrogen,
Inc.
877-310-4592
***********************************************
Follow our TE fan page on
Facebook!
Look for
"teamestrogen.com"
***********************************************
From:
obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
On Behalf Of David Diviney
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 3:57 PM
To: Obra List (obra@list.obra.org)
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] St. John's Bridge - Pedestrian
or Roadway?
I gotta be
honest with you, I will never understand this position on
"asserting my rights". There is basically zero risk of
getting hit by an absent minded/drunk/sun
blinded/distracted/texting/malicious/incompetent motorist
riding on the sidewalk. There is a non-zero percent chance
you may get hit by an absent minded/drunk/sun
blinded/distracted/texting/malicious/incompetent motorist if
you ride on a road. Why take that risk? 15 seconds. 30
seconds?
Your right to
take the lane doesn't reduce the risk or make you crash
proof. We've got former-OBRA members who would attest to
this...if they were still alive. But
I guess it's some consolation that your family can win a
lawsuit if you spend your life in a wheelchair or worse.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> There is basically zero risk of getting hit by an absent
minded/drunk/sun blinded/distracted/texting/malicious/incompetent
motorist riding on the sidewalk. There is a non-zero percent chance you
may get hit by an absent minded/drunk/sun
blinded/distracted/texting/malicious/incompetent motorist if you ride on
a road.
OK, sure. But by that logic, you would never ride on the road anywhere
if sidewalk was present.
***********************************************
Susan Otcenas
Team Estrogen, Inc.
www.TeamEstrogen.com
877-310-4592
***********************************************
Follow our TE fan page on Facebook!
Look for "teamestrogen.com"
***********************************************
________________________________
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of David Diviney
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 3:57 PM
To: Obra List (obra@list.obra.org)
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] St. John's Bridge - Pedestrian or Roadway?
I gotta be honest with you, I will never understand this position on
"asserting my rights". There is basically zero risk of getting hit by
an absent minded/drunk/sun
blinded/distracted/texting/malicious/incompetent motorist riding on the
sidewalk. There is a non-zero percent chance you may get hit by an
absent minded/drunk/sun blinded/distracted/texting/malicious/incompetent
motorist if you ride on a road. Why take that risk? 15 seconds. 30
seconds?
Your right to take the lane doesn't reduce the risk or make you crash
proof. We've got former-OBRA members who would attest to this...if they
were still alive. But I guess it's some consolation that your family
can win a lawsuit if you spend your life in a wheelchair or worse.
This is the exact sentiment that I felt after reading that post as well.
Knowing that my heirs have a good chance of winning a case for my wrongful
death is no comfort to me. Plus try to collect on it....
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 3:56 PM, David Diviney wrote:
> I gotta be honest with you, I will never understand this position on
> "asserting my rights". There is basically zero risk of getting hit by an
> absent minded/drunk/sun blinded/distracted/texting/malicious/incompetent
> motorist riding on the sidewalk. There is a non-zero percent chance you
> may get hit by an absent minded/drunk/sun
> blinded/distracted/texting/malicious/incompetent motorist if you ride on a
> road. Why take that risk? 15 seconds. 30 seconds?
>
> Your right to take the lane doesn't reduce the risk or make you crash
> proof. We've got former-OBRA members who would attest to this...if they
> were still alive. But I guess it's some consolation that your family can
> win a lawsuit if you spend your life in a wheelchair or worse.
>
>
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Susan Otcenas
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 25, 2012 12:04 PM
> *To:* OBRA List
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] St. John's Bridge - Pedestrian or Roadway?
>
> I *always* use the roadway on the St. John's Bridge and I assert my right
> to full use of the lane by riding well towards the center of the lane. I
> feel no qualms about doing this because cars can easily go around me in the
> other lane.
>
> Not saying this applies to anyone here, but I've found that often when
> someone is hesitant to use the roadway in this type of situation (lack of a
> bike lane, higher speed traffic) it's because that person is trying too
> hard to stay too far to the right. When one stays too far to the right, it
> gives a motorist the opportunity to try to squeeze past you without
> changing lanes. By asserting your right to the lane and riding farther
> from the curb, you force the motorist to move into the next lane and not
> try to pass you (because they can't) when there's another motorist already
> IN the left lane. And, if they do try to pass too closely, you have room
> to "bail" and maneuver farther to the right, whereas if you are already
> hugging the side of the road, you have nowhere to go but crash into the
> sidewalk curb.
>
> I've also found that motorists are far less likely to honk in anger or
> pass too closely when I'm cycling in a skirt or dress. So, if the "full
> use of the lane" doesn't work for you, try a skirt! :-)
>
> Susan
>
> ***********************************************
> Susan Otcenas
> Team Estrogen, Inc.
> www.TeamEstrogen.com
> 877-310-4592
> ***********************************************
> *Follow our TE fan page on Facebook!*
> *Look for "teamestrogen.com"*
> ***********************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
I gotta be honest with you, I will never understand this position on "asserting my rights".
I live in North Portland. Before living in North, I lived in NE. I have
ridden across this bridge thousands of times in both directions (since 1973)
and for me....these are my rules of thumb. Early to mid morning on weekends
the road is fine either direction in general (I rode the right then left
turn lane this past Sunday about 9:20 AM heading for Pyramid without any
problems at all). Also on the weekend it is usually OK to ride Eastbound
most of day (shorter climb so easier to top out and increase speed heading
east).
Whenever the bridge is busy, I ride the sidewalk. At times if the traffic
clears / thins when I am heading East on the side walk, I will launch off
sidewalk onto the right lane (only if cars are far behind me) and finish
crossing in that lane. If I am heading West on the sidewalk and want to
turn left toward downtown, I wait for a break in traffic ( I usually stop on
sidewalk for this one) then get into the left turn lane about 100 yards from
light at end of bridge.
I have to say I do not like riding the bridge when it is busy so try to do
my crossings in those off hours if possible. From my perspective it is
better to ride slower and even stop at times for peds on the sidewalk, than
be in a lane when traffic volume is heavy. Those high traffic times are
more likely to include drivers who are feeling rushed, impatient, pissed off
or in general not wanting to be slowed down as they make there way home or
to work.
When they re-furbished the bridged back in 2003-ish, I told them my
preference would be for them to engineer another whole lane outside the
sidewalk on each side for cycles. They could have easily kept the same
wonderful beauty of the the most beautiful bridge in Portland. But hey.
That was too far outside the box.
Whatever you choose to do.....take good care of yourself and those you meet.
ron
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Cortez
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 6:19 PM
To: OBRA List
Subject: [OBRA Chat] St. John's Bridge - Pedestrian or Roadway?
Hey OBRA,
When you cross the St. John's bridge, do you take the pedestrian
walkway or the road? I have done it each way a number of times, and I
can't figure out which scares me more. I've had pretty close calls
both ways. Today a fuel tank truck in the near lane basically brushed
my shoulder while I was riding on the walkway. My heart restarted
again, eventually.
I'm probably just being paranoid, but I'm still fairly certain they're
out to get me. Should I instead just ride through NW and out 30 like
we do for rides from UE to Forest Park? Maybe this can also turn into
the thread where everybody talks about hating to ride on 30 in
general? I'd be OK with that.
Discuss.
- Chris
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obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
That's good advice, I may try a skirt. Is that with bike shorts underneath?
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Susan Otcenas
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 12:04 PM
To: OBRA List
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] St. John's Bridge - Pedestrian or Roadway?
I *always* use the roadway on the St. John's Bridge and I assert my right to full use of the lane by riding well towards the center of the lane. I feel no qualms about doing this because cars can easily go around me in the other lane.
Not saying this applies to anyone here, but I've found that often when someone is hesitant to use the roadway in this type of situation (lack of a bike lane, higher speed traffic) it's because that person is trying too hard to stay too far to the right. When one stays too far to the right, it gives a motorist the opportunity to try to squeeze past you without changing lanes. By asserting your right to the lane and riding farther from the curb, you force the motorist to move into the next lane and not try to pass you (because they can't) when there's another motorist already IN the left lane. And, if they do try to pass too closely, you have room to "bail" and maneuver farther to the right, whereas if you are already hugging the side of the road, you have nowhere to go but crash into the sidewalk curb.
I've also found that motorists are far less likely to honk in anger or pass too closely when I'm cycling in a skirt or dress. So, if the "full use of the lane" doesn't work for you, try a skirt! :-)
Susan
***********************************************
Susan Otcenas
Team Estrogen, Inc.
www.TeamEstrogen.com
877-310-4592
***********************************************
Follow our TE fan page on Facebook!
Look for "teamestrogen.com"
***********************************************
Well put!!!
Susan Otcenas wrote:
>I *always* use the roadway on the St. John's Bridge and I assert my
>right to full use of the lane by riding well towards the center of the
>lane. I feel no qualms about doing this because cars can easily go
>around me in the other lane.
>
>Not saying this applies to anyone here, but I've found that often when
>someone is hesitant to use the roadway in this type of situation (lack
>of a bike lane, higher speed traffic) it's because that person is trying
>too hard to stay too far to the right. When one stays too far to the
>right, it gives a motorist the opportunity to try to squeeze past you
>without changing lanes. By asserting your right to the lane and riding
>farther from the curb, you force the motorist to move into the next lane
>and not try to pass you (because they can't) when there's another
>motorist already IN the left lane. And, if they do try to pass too
>closely, you have room to "bail" and maneuver farther to the right,
>whereas if you are already hugging the side of the road, you have
>nowhere to go but crash into the sidewalk curb.
>
>I've also found that motorists are far less likely to honk in anger or
>pass too closely when I'm cycling in a skirt or dress. So, if the "full
>use of the lane" doesn't work for you, try a skirt! :-)
>
>Susan
>
>***********************************************
>Susan Otcenas
>Team Estrogen, Inc.
>www.TeamEstrogen.com
>877-310-4592
>***********************************************
>Follow our TE fan page on Facebook!
>Look for "teamestrogen.com"
>***********************************************
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
On 4/25/2012 12:03 PM, Susan Otcenas wrote:
I've also found that motorists are
far less likely to honk in anger or pass too closely when I'm
cycling in a skirt or dress.
Rick Johnson
Bend, OregonEvery revolutionary idea seems to evoke three stages of reaction...
One, it's completely impossible.
Two, it's possible, but it's not worth doing.
Three, I said it was a good idea all along.Arthur C. Clarke
I *always* use the roadway on the St. John's Bridge and I assert my
right to full use of the lane by riding well towards the center of the
lane. I feel no qualms about doing this because cars can easily go
around me in the other lane.
Not saying this applies to anyone here, but I've found that often when
someone is hesitant to use the roadway in this type of situation (lack
of a bike lane, higher speed traffic) it's because that person is trying
too hard to stay too far to the right. When one stays too far to the
right, it gives a motorist the opportunity to try to squeeze past you
without changing lanes. By asserting your right to the lane and riding
farther from the curb, you force the motorist to move into the next lane
and not try to pass you (because they can't) when there's another
motorist already IN the left lane. And, if they do try to pass too
closely, you have room to "bail" and maneuver farther to the right,
whereas if you are already hugging the side of the road, you have
nowhere to go but crash into the sidewalk curb.
I've also found that motorists are far less likely to honk in anger or
pass too closely when I'm cycling in a skirt or dress. So, if the "full
use of the lane" doesn't work for you, try a skirt! :-)
Susan
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Chris,
First some background, the bridge is a State owned roadway.
A few years back when they were re-doing the bridge, traffic studies were done which showed that it could have been re-striped as one auto lane each way with a "pro-time" center lane, that is a lane which is used in one direction in the a.m and the other direction in the p.m.. This would have left enough space for wide bicycle lanes on the roadway level.
despite their own traffic study, ODOT went with the emotional answer out of fear and pressure from the freight community which was not based on facts, and striped the two lanes for autos in each direction which we now have.
This was a really big missed opportunity, and while ODOT is changing, this still sticks in the craw of many.
To answer your actual question, I do both, and I do both in both directions. It just depends on the day and time of day.
so for me, commute time? sidewalk and I slow down and try to share and be nice about it.
7 am Sunday? roadway.
Mark
My fear of heights outweighs my fear of cars. Worst five minutes of my life was riding northbound over the Yaquina Bay bridge in Newport, on the sidewalk. My palms are tingling just thinking about it. Yikes. Let
I ride it not infrequently, and I prefer the sidewalk. I'll do the roadway on occasion, especially when I'm with my friend who thinks she'll get blown over the side if she's on the walkway.
Sellwood is about the same. Usually the walkway, but sometimes the road. Actually the Sellwood roadway is best during rush hour, because you can easily go as fast as the cars.
-Gil
________________________________________
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Chris Cortez [chris@cagefreemedia.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 6:19 PM
To: OBRA List
Subject: [OBRA Chat] St. John's Bridge - Pedestrian or Roadway?
Hey OBRA,
When you cross the St. John's bridge, do you take the pedestrian
walkway or the road? I have done it each way a number of times, and I
can't figure out which scares me more. I've had pretty close calls
both ways. Today a fuel tank truck in the near lane basically brushed
my shoulder while I was riding on the walkway. My heart restarted
again, eventually.
I'm probably just being paranoid, but I'm still fairly certain they're
out to get me. Should I instead just ride through NW and out 30 like
we do for rides from UE to Forest Park? Maybe this can also turn into
the thread where everybody talks about hating to ride on 30 in
general? I'd be OK with that.
Discuss.
- Chris
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I second that. I ride St Johns in rh car lane 2x a month or more
sometimes. There's 2 lanes each direction, which leaves room for cars
to go around. I get no more hassle from vehicles than what I get on rest
of road system..... and if you ride 7500 miles a year or more.... you
get your fair share even in bike happy Oregon. However, its a ride
that ya gotta commit to and I don't do it during rush hour.
On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 7:18 PM , Michael Mann wrote:
Sounds like maybe I'm in the minority, but I ride the SJB several
times a year - always eastbound - and unless it's rush hour I take the
lane. And I've surprisingly never had anyone in a car hassle me about
it.
Mike
On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Stewart < stewartcycling@yahoo.com
> wrote:
I cross this bridge a few times a year heading over to Sauvie Isl. Even
though it's slower, I stick with the sidewalk. It just sucks when you
come up on a pedestrain, but it's better than a tanker truck coming up
on you.
I also do the same thing crossing over the sellwood bridge.
Both of those bridges are so narrow with no room to escape.
As for HWY 30, I hate the closer in section, so many cars coming in and
out to the entrances, everyone speeding, gravel on the shoulder. Thats
why I take Willamette Blvd to St.Johns Bridge coming from Mt Tabor area.
Once you get past Linnton, Hwy 30 is pretty nice...for a major Hwy.
my 2 cents!
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Michael Mann
http://baiku-velomann.blogspot.com/
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Sidewalk, always... The road isn't worth it, too many trucks, too many speeding dicks... Sidewalk is a good place for a little recovery, and soak in some views. I can't believe they're even considering putting in shared lanes on that bridge.
Sent from Matt Savage's EyeFöne...
On Apr 24, 2012, at 6:19 PM, Chris Cortez wrote:
> Hey OBRA,
>
> When you cross the St. John's bridge, do you take the pedestrian walkway or the road? I have done it each way a number of times, and I can't figure out which scares me more. I've had pretty close calls both ways. Today a fuel tank truck in the near lane basically brushed my shoulder while I was riding on the walkway. My heart restarted again, eventually.
>
> I'm probably just being paranoid, but I'm still fairly certain they're out to get me. Should I instead just ride through NW and out 30 like we do for rides from UE to Forest Park? Maybe this can also turn into the thread where everybody talks about hating to ride on 30 in general? I'd be OK with that.
>
> Discuss.
>
> - Chris
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
I find eastbound way less tricky than westbound. I do both a fair
amount, as I live in North Portland and like to ride Sauvie and those
wretched, menacing hills out there.
There are "Bicycles on Roadway" signs, so I expect that's how it
should be done, and the cars are OK. It's the tanker trucks that scare
the s**t out of me.
Also: I saw a bed - box spring and mattress anyway - fly out the back
of a truck, across both lanes of traffic, and land against the
pedestrian roadway right in front of me. Not sure what that suggests,
but it was pretty funny, right after it stopped being pretty scary.
It's windy up there sometimes.
Today, I met another cyclist who was traveling westbound on the
eastbound pedestrian walkway. Awkward. I know why he did that, but I
wish he wouldn't.
On Apr 24, 2012, at 7:18 PM, Michael Mann wrote:
> Sounds like maybe I'm in the minority, but I ride the SJB several
> times a year - always eastbound - and unless it's rush hour I take
> the lane. And I've surprisingly never had anyone in a car hassle me
> about it.
>
> Mike
>
> On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Stewart
> wrote:
> I cross this bridge a few times a year heading over to Sauvie Isl.
> Even though it's slower, I stick with the sidewalk. It just sucks
> when you come up on a pedestrain, but it's better than a tanker
> truck coming up on you.
> I also do the same thing crossing over the sellwood bridge.
>
> Both of those bridges are so narrow with no room to escape.
>
> As for HWY 30, I hate the closer in section, so many cars coming in
> and out to the entrances, everyone speeding, gravel on the
> shoulder. Thats why I take Willamette Blvd to St.Johns Bridge
> coming from Mt Tabor area. Once you get past Linnton, Hwy 30 is
> pretty nice...for a major Hwy.
>
> my 2 cents!
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Mann
> http://baiku-velomann.blogspot.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
Sounds like maybe I'm in the minority, but I ride the SJB several times a
year - always eastbound - and unless it's rush hour I take the lane. And
I've surprisingly never had anyone in a car hassle me about it.
Mike
On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Stewart wrote:
> I cross this bridge a few times a year heading over to Sauvie Isl. Even
> though it's slower, I stick with the sidewalk. It just sucks when you come
> up on a pedestrain, but it's better than a tanker truck coming up on you.
> I also do the same thing crossing over the sellwood bridge.
>
> Both of those bridges are so narrow with no room to escape.
>
> As for HWY 30, I hate the closer in section, so many cars coming in and
> out to the entrances, everyone speeding, gravel on the shoulder. Thats why
> I take Willamette Blvd to St.Johns Bridge coming from Mt Tabor area. Once
> you get past Linnton, Hwy 30 is pretty nice...for a major Hwy.
>
> my 2 cents!
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
--
Michael Mann
http://baiku-velomann.blogspot.com/
I cross this bridge a few times a year heading over to Sauvie Isl. Even though it's slower, I stick with the sidewalk. It just sucks when you come up on a pedestrain, but it's better than a tanker truck coming up on you.
I also do the same thing crossing over the sellwood bridge.
Both of those bridges are so narrow with no room to escape.
As for HWY 30, I hate the closer in section, so many cars coming in and out to the entrances, everyone speeding, gravel on the shoulder. Thats why I take Willamette Blvd to St.Johns Bridge coming from Mt Tabor area. Once you get past Linnton, Hwy 30 is pretty nice...for a major Hwy.
my 2 cents!
I generally don't get myself in a position where I have to cross that bridge
but the one or less times a year I do, I take the sidewalk. If you ride in
the road, the curb is so high there is no escape. I just take the sidewalk
and go slow.
Hwy 30 isn't too bad...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Cortez"
To: "OBRA List"
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 6:19 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] St. John's Bridge - Pedestrian or Roadway?
> Hey OBRA,
>
> When you cross the St. John's bridge, do you take the pedestrian walkway
> or the road? I have done it each way a number of times, and I can't
> figure out which scares me more. I've had pretty close calls both ways.
> Today a fuel tank truck in the near lane basically brushed my shoulder
> while I was riding on the walkway. My heart restarted again, eventually.
>
> I'm probably just being paranoid, but I'm still fairly certain they're
> out to get me. Should I instead just ride through NW and out 30 like we
> do for rides from UE to Forest Park? Maybe this can also turn into the
> thread where everybody talks about hating to ride on 30 in general? I'd
> be OK with that.
>
> Discuss.
>
> - Chris
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
Hey OBRA,
When you cross the St. John's bridge, do you take the pedestrian
walkway or the road? I have done it each way a number of times, and I
can't figure out which scares me more. I've had pretty close calls
both ways. Today a fuel tank truck in the near lane basically brushed
my shoulder while I was riding on the walkway. My heart restarted
again, eventually.
I'm probably just being paranoid, but I'm still fairly certain they're
out to get me. Should I instead just ride through NW and out 30 like
we do for rides from UE to Forest Park? Maybe this can also turn into
the thread where everybody talks about hating to ride on 30 in
general? I'd be OK with that.
Discuss.
- Chris
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