LORI BRAULT

All U present Sue is probably true. I wish there were more CAT 3 women races only. I think the race difficulty increases tremendously for CAT 3s when the race is 1/2/3 combined but I also understand the volume in low and the fields get combined. Where are all the ladies that did cross this winter? Road is easier. ;)

Lori Brault

On May 04, 2012, at 09:39 AM, Sue Butler wrote:

Hello Candi, et. al,
As an advocate of women's cycling in Oregon, I try to do as many road races (in addition to dirt races) that I can with the women to support the field and the growth of women's cycling in general. I, personally, have chosen to mountain bike this weekend at the Coast HIlls Classic and believe me, the fields of the pro women there are not very deep either. It is usually Alice and I, but now with some recent upgrades, we may have 5 pros. I am really perplexed how/why this is happening.
Give me a second to vent here, however. I did race with the women at Kings Valley and I really walked away from that race discouraged and frankly, a bit angry. And I have heard it from others in Oregon too. (you know who you are). The women's road races have such GREAT potential to be fast, hard and great training and learning venues, but there is something lacking. There were plenty of teams represented in that race that could have tried out tactics, done some team racing and learned how to work together as a team. I am not a road racer, but it seems that we need some mentorship to make it truly the team sport that it is supposed to be and get teams competing against each other and working for one of their teammates to win. Not just a bunch of individuals chasing glory. I race alone. I road race for training. I am not afraid to attack, sit in the front, blow myself up, etc. I have nothing to lose. But unless the race is going to be fast enough and hard enough, I may actually choose to race with the master men. I don't want to do that.
I would hate to see organizers decide the women are not worth having at their races. It is not a great statement. But I understand their return on investment has to be there too. We have lost a lot of our ladies that used to be staples in the peloton. Where have they gone? I understand family, jobs and other things take priority, but we need to have younger racers up and coming to replace those that leave. Where are the juniors? U23? College grads? Let's make the road scene more welcoming and nurture those that can contribute to our peloton. Competition is good. Oregon is such a rich cycling community and I want to see that continue.
Ideas, thoughts, comments welcome. Just wanted to say that even though I won't be at Monitmore or Tabor Circuit, I believe that there should be a womens field. Let's get out there and race, ladies!!!
Sue

On May 4, 2012, at 8:25 AM, Candi Murray wrote:

Ladies
I have been in discussion with a couple of races about which fields to offer. One event had the time allowed on course cut by the approving park and started to trim all fields that have had a small showing in the past. Out went Fixed Gear and Tandems. The next smallest field was the women 1/2/3

Stefanie Bergh

And here is my $0.02 from someone who just moved to the NW. I started
racing last spring in Minnesota. The fields there are tiny compared to
Oregon and there are almost never any team dynamics because the teams are
so small. I did a race in Iowa and there were 3 of us in the 1/2/3 field,
which apparently is normal there. Prizes were 3 deep and the promoter was
happy to hand out the prize money. I never heard any talk in Minnesota
about not including womens fields.

Obviously there will never be nearly as many women as men (in the near
future), but to say that having women's fields is causing the promoters to
lose money seems ridiculous and I find to be insulting. If you are truly
in it only to make money then go ahead and say so.

I never knew that some promoters gave refunds. From now on I will ask
about that and if they do offer refunds I will pre-register. For me, $28
is a big deal and I try to volunteer for free entry when I can.

I think the best point was brought up by Karey when she said talked about
the large volume of races in Oregon. A race (or two) every weekend and
almost every night of the week?! I like bike racing, but with work
and other commitments and hobbies there is no way to train for or do all of
these races. With a much smaller pool of racers we simply cannot have the
attendance that the men do. Now to just grow that pool of women racers! I
think it would be interesting to survey women who participate in only cross
and see why they don't race other disciplines since cross races seem to
have much larger participation by women.

And to answer Sarah's question: for me, what matters is the distance I have
to travel to a race and the course (type, distance). I am still new to all
these races so I have been trying them all out. Next year I honestly
expect to be more picky and only do the races that I like or that a
teammate would like my help with.

Happy racing everyone.

Stefanie

> ------------------------------
> From: cmurray@obra.org
> To: obra@list.obra.org; obra_women@list.obra.org
> Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 08:25:12 -0700
> Subject: [OBRA Women] Calling Cat 1/2/3 women
>
>
> Ladies
>
> I have been in discussion with a couple of races about which fields to
> offer. One event had the time allowed on course cut by the approving park
> and started to trim all fields that have had a small showing in the past.
> Out went Fixed Gear and Tandems. The next smallest field was the women
> 1/2/3.
>
> We in OBRA are trying to encourage new riders, trying to encourage race
> organizers to offer events for the Cat 4 and Cat 5 riders to get them into
> the sport. And now that those fields are growing to split the Women 3 out.
> But how can we grow the sport if the riders at the very top are not turning
> out?
>
> This week there is a new road race, I just checked pre registration and
> currently there are 1 Cat

Sarah Brown

Another $0.02, from an inactive cat 2:

A lot of us gained our cat 1, 2, or 3 racing license during a period of life in which we had more time/money/motivation to train and race. Often we find that 3 or 4 years later, jobs have changed, families have changed, and we are on the outside of the racing world looking in. Here I am (probably not alone) wanting to get back into racing but feeling like a cat 6 and shaking my head at the idea of racing back in the cat 1/2 field again. With 15 consecutive, bike-less, days away from home every month, work just doesn't make it possible to train like I used to, yet I miss the thrill of competition and camaraderie of working as a team in a great stage race. I'm sure lots of us have experienced career changes since 2008 that have altered our cycling lives.
The distribution of available cat 1/2/3s between a variety of races occurring simultaneously (as brought up in an earlier email) is further whittled down by attrition due to life circumstances, taking a lot of potential racers out of the pool of potential registrants. Unfortunately the bottom line is that our numbers are small, and this is not the fault of race organizers.

While no one but ourselves can change our own time/money scenarios, this collective group of dedicated cyclists who love women's racing and the generous opportunities which exists for us in Oregon can do something- we can work on the OBRA women's motivation, the race organizers' motivation, and the general interest level generated amongst us for individual events. If we can pinpoint what really piques the interest of the women in the field, and offer fewer races with higher appeal, I believe the fields will be larger.
So what is most attractive to women racers? Race location? Epic-ness of the course? Prize money? Weather? Family-friendliness? A variety of registration categories to choose from?
And always, always, thank your race organizers when they make an effort to give us separate fields or prizes. The littlest appreciative email goes a long way.

Thank you to Candy for raising this issue, and to everyone participating in this conversation. Your concern is a great indication of how much people care about this issue, and that is a good thing!

Hope to see you ladies out there this year,
Sarah Brown

From: cmurray@obra.org
To: obra@list.obra.org; obra_women@list.obra.org
Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 08:25:12 -0700
Subject: [OBRA Women] Calling Cat 1/2/3 women

LadiesI have been in discussion with a couple of races about which fields to offer. One event had the time allowed on course cut by the approving park and started to trim all fields that have had a small showing in the past. Out went Fixed Gear and Tandems. The next smallest field was the women 1/2/3.We in OBRA are trying to encourage new riders, trying to encourage race organizers to offer events for the Cat 4 and Cat 5 riders to get them into the sport. And now that those fields are growing to split the Women 3 out. But how can we grow the sport if the riders at the very top are not turning out?This week there is a new road race, I just checked pre registration and currently there are 1 Cat

Melissa Boyd

First of all, I'd like to say that I'd love to race Monitmore if I could be
there.

However, I will be at Coast Hills Classic. I want to personally thank the
Coast Hills organizers for offering EQUAL FIELDS for men and women. Come
on, how often have you seen a cat-2 55+ class or a Clydesdale (Athena)
class for the women?? This sort of support for the women is wonderful, and
I'd like to encourage all the women mountain bikers to turn out in support!

Personally, when I have to choose between races I choose to support the
races that support the masters women. If more of us would show up we'd have
better fields, better races, and happier promoters too.

Melissa

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 8:25 AM, Candi Murray wrote:

> Ladies****
>
> I have been in discussion with a couple of races about which fields to
> offer. One event had the time allowed on course cut by the approving park
> and started to trim all fields that have had a small showing in the past.
> Out went Fixed Gear and Tandems. The next smallest field was the women
> 1/2/3.****
>
> We in OBRA are trying to encourage new riders, trying to encourage race
> organizers to offer events for the Cat 4 and Cat 5 riders to get them into
> the sport. And now that those fields are growing to split the Women 3 out.
> But how can we grow the sport if the riders at the very top are not turning
> out?****
>
> This week there is a new road race, I just checked pre registration and
> currently there are 1 Cat

Jan Moss

I don't think anyone will argue that I do my fair share of women's
races and have for several years. Over the years I have seen huge
fields and I have seen embarassingly small fields. I have always
struggled with the question "where are the women?" I've heard it all,
"I don't want to race with the 4's", "I don't want to race with the
1/2's" "I want to race Masters", "I don't race in rain, heat, wind"
etc..... to all of these I have always said that we can not demand
"fair" treatment if we do not consistently show up. No, I'm not
saying 50-75 riders each race, like men, but if the senior women
consistently had 25 women, we would not be having this discussion. I
have never been able to figure out why our race numbers fluctuate so.

There are many teams in OR with women racers. I agree that we could
be much more competitive. But that means that the women on those
teams need to consistently race with each other. In order to work as
a team, you need to race as a team. I struggle with this on my own
team, so I know this is not easy to accomplish. I race a lot in WA
and let me tell you it is expected that you will race often with your
teammates. It shows. The teams in WA are much more tactical. I don't
think we need special mentoriing or training, we just need time in
the saddle during races.

Regarding the recent races. I have always done the Eugene Roubaix.
Weeks ago (before the big brew-ha-ha on OBRA) i emailed the promoter
to ask why there was no women's field. I got NO response. That is
unacceptable, I should have received a response. Then there was the
public outcry. Even then, when a women's field was posted the
promoter did not encourage women to attend (in my opinion), it was
more like he was forced to do it. I think he should have offered a
reason for the omission in the first place an apology and an
invitation to race. I chose (correctly in my mind) to go to a race
that was guaranteed to have a huge competitive field in WA. I do not
often do this, I usually choose to race in OR, but when a promoter is
obviously not interested in my participation, I go elsewhere.

Regarding this weekend, I was planning on doing the race. The
original flyer had the women racing in the afternoon. I made plans
for Sunday morning. The race was changed. I emailed Jeff directly to
let him know this meant that I was not coming. (not that my lack of
attendance breaks his heart, but maybe he'll realize the impact of
changing times)

Lastly, regarding pre-registration. Come on ladies step up. Every
race that I can tell offers a refund if you are sick or injured, so
the excuse of waiting until the day of race is moot. The process is
simple and it is polite. If I was a promoter trying to figure out
porta-potties, volunteers, etc.... I would want to know if people
were coming or not. This takes a bit of forethought on your part, but
do it.

Racing is fun, but I believe if we, the women of OBRA, do not
continue to show up to prove our interest, we really have no leg to
stand on to demand anything. I would certainly hate to see it go
away..... then what would I do?

Hope to see more of you out there suffering with me.
On Fri 04/05/12 08:25 , "Candi Murray" cmurray@obra.org sent:
Ladies

I have been in discussion with a couple of races about which fields
to offer. One event had the time allowed on course cut by the
approving park and started to trim all fields that have had a small
showing in the past. Out went Fixed Gear and Tandems. The next
smallest field was the women 1/2/3.

We in OBRA are trying to encourage new riders, trying to encourage
race organizers to offer events for the Cat 4 and Cat 5 riders to get
them into the sport. And now that those fields are growing to split
the Women 3 out. But how can we grow the sport if the riders at the
very top are not turning out?

This week there is a new road race, I just checked pre registration
and currently there are 1 Cat ½ women and 2 Cat 3 women signed up.
Where are you all? The time, money and energy to put on the events
and offer you separate fields seems to be slipping away and unless
you all become much more proactive I fear that the Cat 1/2/3 women
fields will all be combined with the men.

Let’s not let this happen. There are almost 70 Cat 1/2/3 women
north of Corvallis. Why are there only 3 signed up for the Monitmore
race?

Candi

Sue Butler

Hello Candi, et. al,
As an advocate of women's cycling in Oregon, I try to do as many road races (in addition to dirt races) that I can with the women to support the field and the growth of women's cycling in general. I, personally, have chosen to mountain bike this weekend at the Coast HIlls Classic and believe me, the fields of the pro women there are not very deep either. It is usually Alice and I, but now with some recent upgrades, we may have 5 pros. I am really perplexed how/why this is happening.
Give me a second to vent here, however. I did race with the women at Kings Valley and I really walked away from that race discouraged and frankly, a bit angry. And I have heard it from others in Oregon too. (you know who you are). The women's road races have such GREAT potential to be fast, hard and great training and learning venues, but there is something lacking. There were plenty of teams represented in that race that could have tried out tactics, done some team racing and learned how to work together as a team. I am not a road racer, but it seems that we need some mentorship to make it truly the team sport that it is supposed to be and get teams competing against each other and working for one of their teammates to win. Not just a bunch of individuals chasing glory. I race alone. I road race for training. I am not afraid to attack, sit in the front, blow myself up, etc. I have nothing to lose. But unless the race is going to be fast enough and hard enough, I may actually choose to race with the master men. I don't want to do that.
I would hate to see organizers decide the women are not worth having at their races. It is not a great statement. But I understand their return on investment has to be there too. We have lost a lot of our ladies that used to be staples in the peloton. Where have they gone? I understand family, jobs and other things take priority, but we need to have younger racers up and coming to replace those that leave. Where are the juniors? U23? College grads? Let's make the road scene more welcoming and nurture those that can contribute to our peloton. Competition is good. Oregon is such a rich cycling community and I want to see that continue.
Ideas, thoughts, comments welcome. Just wanted to say that even though I won't be at Monitmore or Tabor Circuit, I believe that there should be a womens field. Let's get out there and race, ladies!!!
Sue

On May 4, 2012, at 8:25 AM, Candi Murray wrote:

> Ladies
> I have been in discussion with a couple of races about which fields to offer. One event had the time allowed on course cut by the approving park and started to trim all fields that have had a small showing in the past. Out went Fixed Gear and Tandems. The next smallest field was the women 1/2/3.
> We in OBRA are trying to encourage new riders, trying to encourage race organizers to offer events for the Cat 4 and Cat 5 riders to get them into the sport. And now that those fields are growing to split the Women 3 out. But how can we grow the sport if the riders at the very top are not turning out?
> This week there is a new road race, I just checked pre registration and currently there are 1 Cat

Karey Swan

Hi Candi and all,

This is definitely a loaded question and one that our team has talked about
at length. We have noticed that it is becoming more and more difficult for
women to race in Oregon. As you mentioned, more fields are being cut and
the race distances are being shortened due to time/course/supprt
constraints. Many times when a race promotor puts on a race he/she has no
choice but to leave out or combine certain fields because of these
limitations.

The other aspect that we have talked about is that, because there are just
not as many women racers as there are men, once you have 50 races on the
race calendar, there aren't enough women to race every single race, so the
field sizes are small. All things considered, if you have 1 racer, they
may do 50% of all races (if they are pretty serious about racing). This
means that there is 1 less woman at any of the other 50% of the races - and
this stems to a lack of large field sizes in the womens fields.

Often times, when a promotor cuts womens field, our first instinct is to
get riled up - which is understandable. That being said, I'm wondering if a
shift in race promotion/offerings might be our best bet. By this, i mean
to offer a more limited run of races that have womens fields, but makes
sure to let everyone know in plenty of advance which races may not offer a
woman's field. If this was the case, yes, there would be less races for
women to have their own race, but if these are excellent courses and good
distances, they would draw a larger crowd of women. In a nut shell - less
may be better.

In regards to the new race this weekend, I think pre-registration is
another animal. There isn't much incentive to pre-reg, in my eyes. I
mean, what if I get sick the night before - or whatever the case. I think
it is a bigger deal if you know the field is going to get full - but I
don't think Pre-registration means much to the ladies. By the time you
register and pay the fees, the pre-reg incentive price isn't worth doing it
ahead of time (this is just my two cents). We have about 5-6 women racing
on Sunday, none of which have pre-reg'd and I know there are other teams
headed over that are in the same boat.

Anyway, take it for what it is - I'd love to hear other women's feed back.
I strongly promote beginners racing and mentoring and having fields
available to everyone as well as Elite level racing - but in this case
where we are dealing with smaller fields, I do think that less races on the
calendar would result in larger field sizes. I think it would also be wise
to look at when these races are offered (as far as promoting goes) because
a lot of the 1/2/3 women attend larger races throughout Washington and
Northern Cal, which I also think is great!

Thanks
Karey Swan
Director - WCWC Team p/b Ninkasi
541.556.0454

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 8:25 AM, Candi Murray wrote:

> Ladies****
>
> I have been in discussion with a couple of races about which fields to
> offer. One event had the time allowed on course cut by the approving park
> and started to trim all fields that have had a small showing in the past.
> Out went Fixed Gear and Tandems. The next smallest field was the women
> 1/2/3.****
>
> We in OBRA are trying to encourage new riders, trying to encourage race
> organizers to offer events for the Cat 4 and Cat 5 riders to get them into
> the sport. And now that those fields are growing to split the Women 3 out.
> But how can we grow the sport if the riders at the very top are not turning
> out?****
>
> This week there is a new road race, I just checked pre registration and
> currently there are 1 Cat

Candi Murray

Ladies

I have been in discussion with a couple of races about which fields to
offer. One event had the time allowed on course cut by the approving park
and started to trim all fields that have had a small showing in the past.
Out went Fixed Gear and Tandems. The next smallest field was the women
1/2/3.

We in OBRA are trying to encourage new riders, trying to encourage race
organizers to offer events for the Cat 4 and Cat 5 riders to get them into
the sport. And now that those fields are growing to split the Women 3 out.
But how can we grow the sport if the riders at the very top are not turning
out?

This week there is a new road race, I just checked pre registration and
currently there are 1 Cat