T. Kenji Sugahara

Ladies- make sure this gets out to anyone who is interested in racing
who are not necessarily on this list.

That's what's most important!

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 7:03 PM, Alexandra Burton
wrote:
> For the Newbies out there, I know it can be intimidating.  Come out  one of
> the novice clinics at PIR.  This is a good place to get your feet wet, and
> chat with ladies that are on teams and get a feel for what the different
> teams are out there.  The novice race at PIR is very low key and really
> great for new racers.  I know its hard to make the leap, but if you really
> want to race, youve got to be brave!
>
> Check it out:  http://www.racemondaynight.com/blog/weekly-clinics/
>
>
> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Renee Mansour
> wrote:
>>
>> Well said Gina!
>> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gina Miller
>> Sender: obra_women-bounces@list.obra.org
>> Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 16:49:44
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Women] [OBRA Chat]  Calling Cat 1/2/3 women
>>
>> This is somewhat off topic, but it's worth a comment.  As a promoter of
>> many events over the last nine years, my refund and transfer policy has
>> necessarily become more stringent due to rising costs of just about
>> everything and needing to be more tight with budgeting.  Most people do
>> not truly understand the large expenses that promoters incur - there is
>> this assumption (because I've heard it many times when I've said no to a
>> refund) that there are no or very few hard costs involved. That is simply
>> not the case and while many of us do this because it is a passion and we
>> love it, for many it is also a career choice and you need to be able to
>> pay yourself and/or any staff.  Most of us don't have jobs that don't pay
>> usŠthat's called volunteering!  Promoters plan for numbers based on
>> history if they have it and pre-registered athletes. Food, bib quantities
>> and many other things are determined in part by pre-registered numbers.
>> Bike racing is a bit different than say a running event where the
>> expectation is greater with the "post race experience" such as food and
>> drink afterward, but more and more promoters are trying to make bike races
>> positive experiences and differentiate themselves by providing things like
>> bagels, cookies, lunch,  beer, etc. after a race.  Racers are frustrated
>> when they run out of things (hence better planning numbers when
>> pre-registered) and promoters are frustrated when they order based on
>> numbers and then 50 people want refunds.
>>
>> As a racer myself, I do not pre-register for a race unless I know for sure
>> I am going, or if it's an event that may sell out.  I know that if
>> something changes (injured, bad weather, a better offerŠwhatever), I eat
>> the cost and I am okay with it because it was my choice.  I also expect to
>> pay a higher price if I decide to wait until the last minute.  It's
>> certainly a choice for racers to decide what events they participate in
>> and I have always made exceptions for dire circumstances, but when "you
>> can't make it"  to an event, it's not really fair to expect a refund.
>>
>> Just wanted to potentially give some insight from the promoter's side!
>>
>> -gina
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/4/12 10:43 AM, "LORI BRAULT" wrote:
>>
>> >I preregistered for PIECE of CAKE and Hugh Givens did not refund me when
>> >I couldn't attend so I will not preregister for any races except the TTs.
>> >
>> >Lori Brault
>> >
>> >
>> >On May 04, 2012, at 10:15 AM, Jan Moss wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >I don't think anyone will argue that I do my fair share of women's races
>> >and have for several years. Over the years I have seen huge fields and I
>> >have seen embarassingly small fields. I have always struggled with the
>> >question "where are the women?" I've heard it all, "I don't want to race
>> >with the 4's", "I don't want to race with the 1/2's" "I want to race
>> >Masters", "I don't race in rain, heat, wind" etc..... to all of these I
>> >have always said that we can not demand "fair" treatment if we do not
>> >consistently show up. No, I'm not saying 50-75 riders each race, like
>> >men, but if the senior women consistently had 25 women, we would not be
>> >having this discussion.  I have never been able to figure out why our
>> >race numbers fluctuate so.
>> >There are many teams in OR with women racers. I agree that we could be
>> >much more competitive. But that means that the women on those teams need
>> >to consistently race with each other. In order to work as a team, you
>> >need to race as a team. I struggle with this on my own team, so I know
>> >this is not easy to accomplish. I race a lot in WA and let me tell you it
>> >is expected that you will race often with your teammates. It shows. The
>> >teams in WA are much more tactical. I don't think we need special
>> >mentoriing or training, we just need time in the saddle during races.
>> >Regarding the recent races. I have always done the Eugene Roubaix. Weeks
>> >ago (before the big brew-ha-ha on OBRA) i emailed the promoter to ask why
>> >there was no women's field. I got NO response. That is unacceptable, I
>> >should have received a response. Then there was the public outcry. Even
>> >then, when a women's field was posted the promoter did not encourage
>> >women to attend (in my opinion), it was more like he was forced to do it.
>> >I think he should have offered a reason for the omission in the first
>> >place an apology and an invitation to race. I chose (correctly in my
>> >mind) to go to a race that was guaranteed to have a huge competitive
>> >field in WA. I do not often do this, I usually choose to race in OR, but
>> >when a promoter is obviously not interested in my participation, I go
>> >elsewhere.
>> >Regarding this weekend, I was planning on doing the race. The original
>> >flyer had the women racing in the afternoon. I made plans for Sunday
>> >morning. The race was changed. I emailed Jeff directly to let him know
>> >this meant that I was not coming. (not that my lack of attendance breaks
>> >his heart, but maybe he'll realize the impact of changing times)
>> >Lastly, regarding pre-registration. Come on ladies step up. Every race
>> >that I can tell offers a refund if you are sick or injured, so the excuse
>> >of waiting until the day of race is moot. The process is simple and it is
>> >polite. If I was a promoter trying to figure out porta-potties,
>> >volunteers, etc.... I would want to know if people were coming or not.
>> >This takes a bit of forethought on your part, but do it.
>> >Racing is fun, but I believe if we, the women of OBRA, do not continue to
>> >show up to prove our interest, we really have no leg to stand on to
>> >demand anything. I would certainly hate to see it go away..... then what
>> >would I do?
>> >Hope to see more of you out there suffering with me.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On Fri 04/05/12 08:25 , "Candi Murray" cmurray@obra.org sent:
>> >
>> >Ladies
>> >I have been in discussion with a  couple of races about which fields to
>> >offer. One event had the time allowed on course cut by the approving park
>> >and started to trim all fields that have had a small showing in the past.
>> >Out went Fixed Gear and Tandems. The next smallest field was the women
>> >1/2/3
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >OBRA_Women mailing list
>> >OBRA_Women@list.obra.org
>> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_women
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Women mailing list
>> OBRA_Women@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_women
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Women mailing list
>> OBRA_Women@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_women
>
>
>
>
> --
> Alexandra Burton, LMT
> Massage Therapist
> 503.327.9547
> Upper Echelon Fitness
> 1420 NW 17th
> Lic#12124
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Women mailing list
> OBRA_Women@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_women
>

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone:  503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org

Alexandra Burton

For the Newbies out there, I know it can be intimidating. Come out one of
the novice clinics at PIR. This is a good place to get your feet wet, and
chat with ladies that are on teams and get a feel for what the different
teams are out there. The novice race at PIR is very low key and really
great for new racers. I know its hard to make the leap, but if you really
want to race, youve got to be brave!

Check it out: http://www.racemondaynight.com/blog/weekly-clinics/

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Renee Mansour wrote:

> Well said Gina!
> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gina Miller
> Sender: obra_women-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 16:49:44
> To:
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Women] [OBRA Chat] Calling Cat 1/2/3 women
>
> This is somewhat off topic, but it's worth a comment. As a promoter of
> many events over the last nine years, my refund and transfer policy has
> necessarily become more stringent due to rising costs of just about
> everything and needing to be more tight with budgeting. Most people do
> not truly understand the large expenses that promoters incur - there is
> this assumption (because I've heard it many times when I've said no to a
> refund) that there are no or very few hard costs involved. That is simply
> not the case and while many of us do this because it is a passion and we
> love it, for many it is also a career choice and you need to be able to
> pay yourself and/or any staff. Most of us don't have jobs that don't pay
> usŠthat's called volunteering! Promoters plan for numbers based on
> history if they have it and pre-registered athletes. Food, bib quantities
> and many other things are determined in part by pre-registered numbers.
> Bike racing is a bit different than say a running event where the
> expectation is greater with the "post race experience" such as food and
> drink afterward, but more and more promoters are trying to make bike races
> positive experiences and differentiate themselves by providing things like
> bagels, cookies, lunch, beer, etc. after a race. Racers are frustrated
> when they run out of things (hence better planning numbers when
> pre-registered) and promoters are frustrated when they order based on
> numbers and then 50 people want refunds.
>
> As a racer myself, I do not pre-register for a race unless I know for sure
> I am going, or if it's an event that may sell out. I know that if
> something changes (injured, bad weather, a better offerŠwhatever), I eat
> the cost and I am okay with it because it was my choice. I also expect to
> pay a higher price if I decide to wait until the last minute. It's
> certainly a choice for racers to decide what events they participate in
> and I have always made exceptions for dire circumstances, but when "you
> can't make it" to an event, it's not really fair to expect a refund.
>
> Just wanted to potentially give some insight from the promoter's side!
>
> -gina
>
>
>
> On 5/4/12 10:43 AM, "LORI BRAULT" wrote:
>
> >I preregistered for PIECE of CAKE and Hugh Givens did not refund me when
> >I couldn't attend so I will not preregister for any races except the TTs.
> >
> >Lori Brault
> >
> >
> >On May 04, 2012, at 10:15 AM, Jan Moss wrote:
> >
> >
> >I don't think anyone will argue that I do my fair share of women's races
> >and have for several years. Over the years I have seen huge fields and I
> >have seen embarassingly small fields. I have always struggled with the
> >question "where are the women?" I've heard it all, "I don't want to race
> >with the 4's", "I don't want to race with the 1/2's" "I want to race
> >Masters", "I don't race in rain, heat, wind" etc..... to all of these I
> >have always said that we can not demand "fair" treatment if we do not
> >consistently show up. No, I'm not saying 50-75 riders each race, like
> >men, but if the senior women consistently had 25 women, we would not be
> >having this discussion. I have never been able to figure out why our
> >race numbers fluctuate so.
> >There are many teams in OR with women racers. I agree that we could be
> >much more competitive. But that means that the women on those teams need
> >to consistently race with each other. In order to work as a team, you
> >need to race as a team. I struggle with this on my own team, so I know
> >this is not easy to accomplish. I race a lot in WA and let me tell you it
> >is expected that you will race often with your teammates. It shows. The
> >teams in WA are much more tactical. I don't think we need special
> >mentoriing or training, we just need time in the saddle during races.
> >Regarding the recent races. I have always done the Eugene Roubaix. Weeks
> >ago (before the big brew-ha-ha on OBRA) i emailed the promoter to ask why
> >there was no women's field. I got NO response. That is unacceptable, I
> >should have received a response. Then there was the public outcry. Even
> >then, when a women's field was posted the promoter did not encourage
> >women to attend (in my opinion), it was more like he was forced to do it.
> >I think he should have offered a reason for the omission in the first
> >place an apology and an invitation to race. I chose (correctly in my
> >mind) to go to a race that was guaranteed to have a huge competitive
> >field in WA. I do not often do this, I usually choose to race in OR, but
> >when a promoter is obviously not interested in my participation, I go
> >elsewhere.
> >Regarding this weekend, I was planning on doing the race. The original
> >flyer had the women racing in the afternoon. I made plans for Sunday
> >morning. The race was changed. I emailed Jeff directly to let him know
> >this meant that I was not coming. (not that my lack of attendance breaks
> >his heart, but maybe he'll realize the impact of changing times)
> >Lastly, regarding pre-registration. Come on ladies step up. Every race
> >that I can tell offers a refund if you are sick or injured, so the excuse
> >of waiting until the day of race is moot. The process is simple and it is
> >polite. If I was a promoter trying to figure out porta-potties,
> >volunteers, etc.... I would want to know if people were coming or not.
> >This takes a bit of forethought on your part, but do it.
> >Racing is fun, but I believe if we, the women of OBRA, do not continue to
> >show up to prove our interest, we really have no leg to stand on to
> >demand anything. I would certainly hate to see it go away..... then what
> >would I do?
> >Hope to see more of you out there suffering with me.
> >
> >
> >
> >On Fri 04/05/12 08:25 , "Candi Murray" cmurray@obra.org sent:
> >
> >Ladies
> >I have been in discussion with a couple of races about which fields to
> >offer. One event had the time allowed on course cut by the approving park
> >and started to trim all fields that have had a small showing in the past.
> >Out went Fixed Gear and Tandems. The next smallest field was the women
> >1/2/3
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA_Women mailing list
> >OBRA_Women@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_women
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Women mailing list
> OBRA_Women@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_women
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Women mailing list
> OBRA_Women@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_women
>

--
Alexandra Burton, LMT
Massage Therapist
503.327.9547
Upper Echelon Fitness
1420 NW 17th
Lic#12124

Renee Mansour

Well said Gina!
Sent on the Sprint

Brooke

Hello Ladies,
Just thought I'd throw in my two cents from a novice standpoint. I am 33, and have had my first road bike for less than a year. I love riding...and would be into joining a team or racing... But it feels, frankly, intimidating. So I just end up going on group rides and charity rides... I think if there was a centralized ladies themes website to promote veteran and newbie racers... With info on teams, events, and so on perhaps we would see more ladies like myself trying out racing and becoming more involved? This might sound kind of funny - but it seems like you have to know someone in the racing scene to get involved.
I dunno.

Anyhoo... Keep up the good work!

Best,
Brooke

Www.yonderhollerfamilyfarm.com

Sent from my iPhone

On May 4, 2012, at 9:29 AM, "Leibowitz, Flo" wrote:

> Karey, I think you have hit on something really key here.
>
>
>
> “…. because there are just not as many women racers as there are men, once you have 50 races on the race calendar, there aren't enough women to race every single race, so the field sizes are small. All things considered, if you have 1 racer, they may do 50% of all races (if they are pretty serious about racing). This means that there is 1 less woman at any of the other 50% of the races…”
>
>
>
> I am not in the 1/2/3 field. But if I were, this would ring a very loud bell. In a way, OBRA has been SO successful with promoting races, that its success here is ironically creating this situation.
>
>
>
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Karey Swan
> Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 9:26 AM
> To: cmurray@obra.org
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org; obra_women@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] [OBRA Women] Calling Cat 1/2/3 women
>
>
>
> Hi Candi and all,
>
>
>
> This is definitely a loaded question and one that our team has talked about at length. We have noticed that it is becoming more and more difficult for women to race in Oregon. As you mentioned, more fields are being cut and the race distances are being shortened due to time/course/supprt constraints. Many times when a race promotor puts on a race he/she has no choice but to leave out or combine certain fields because of these limitations.
>
>
>
> The other aspect that we have talked about is that, because there are just not as many women racers as there are men, once you have 50 races on the race calendar, there aren't enough women to race every single race, so the field sizes are small. All things considered, if you have 1 racer, they may do 50% of all races (if they are pretty serious about racing). This means that there is 1 less woman at any of the other 50% of the races - and this stems to a lack of large field sizes in the womens fields.
>
>
>
> Often times, when a promotor cuts womens field, our first instinct is to get riled up - which is understandable. That being said, I'm wondering if a shift in race promotion/offerings might be our best bet. By this, i mean to offer a more limited run of races that have womens fields, but makes sure to let everyone know in plenty of advance which races may not offer a woman's field. If this was the case, yes, there would be less races for women to have their own race, but if these are excellent courses and good distances, they would draw a larger crowd of women. In a nut shell - less may be better.
>
>
>
> In regards to the new race this weekend, I think pre-registration is another animal. There isn't much incentive to pre-reg, in my eyes. I mean, what if I get sick the night before - or whatever the case. I think it is a bigger deal if you know the field is going to get full - but I don't think Pre-registration means much to the ladies. By the time you register and pay the fees, the pre-reg incentive price isn't worth doing it ahead of time (this is just my two cents). We have about 5-6 women racing on Sunday, none of which have pre-reg'd and I know there are other teams headed over that are in the same boat.
>
>
>
> Anyway, take it for what it is - I'd love to hear other women's feed back. I strongly promote beginners racing and mentoring and having fields available to everyone as well as Elite level racing - but in this case where we are dealing with smaller fields, I do think that less races on the calendar would result in larger field sizes. I think it would also be wise to look at when these races are offered (as far as promoting goes) because a lot of the 1/2/3 women attend larger races throughout Washington and Northern Cal, which I also think is great!
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Karey Swan
>
> Director - WCWC Team p/b Ninkasi
>
> 541.556.0454
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 8:25 AM, Candi Murray wrote:
>
> Ladies
>
> I have been in discussion with a couple of races about which fields to offer. One event had the time allowed on course cut by the approving park and started to trim all fields that have had a small showing in the past. Out went Fixed Gear and Tandems. The next smallest field was the women 1/2/3.
>
> We in OBRA are trying to encourage new riders, trying to encourage race organizers to offer events for the Cat 4 and Cat 5 riders to get them into the sport. And now that those fields are growing to split the Women 3 out. But how can we grow the sport if the riders at the very top are not turning out?
>
> This week there is a new road race, I just checked pre registration and currently there are 1 Cat ½ women and 2 Cat 3 women signed up. Where are you all? The time, money and energy to put on the events and offer you separate fields seems to be slipping away and unless you all become much more proactive I fear that the Cat 1/2/3 women fields will all be combined with the men.
>
> Let’s not let this happen. There are almost 70 Cat 1/2/3 women north of Corvallis. Why are there only 3 signed up for the Monitmore race?
>
> Candi
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Women mailing list
> OBRA_Women@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_women
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> ------------------- __O
> ----------------- _\ <,
> ---------------- (_)/(_)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Women mailing list
> OBRA_Women@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_women

Gina Miller

This is somewhat off topic, but it's worth a comment. As a promoter of
many events over the last nine years, my refund and transfer policy has
necessarily become more stringent due to rising costs of just about
everything and needing to be more tight with budgeting. Most people do
not truly understand the large expenses that promoters incur - there is
this assumption (because I've heard it many times when I've said no to a
refund) that there are no or very few hard costs involved. That is simply
not the case and while many of us do this because it is a passion and we
love it, for many it is also a career choice and you need to be able to
pay yourself and/or any staff. Most of us don't have jobs that don't pay
us

LORI BRAULT

I preregistered for PIECE of CAKE and Hugh Givens did not refund me when I couldn't attend so I will not preregister for any races except the TTs.

Lori Brault

On May 04, 2012, at 10:15 AM, Jan Moss wrote:

I don't think anyone will argue that I do my fair share of women's races and have for several years. Over the years I have seen huge fields and I have seen embarassingly small fields. I have always struggled with the question "where are the women?" I've heard it all, "I don't want to race with the 4's", "I don't want to race with the 1/2's" "I want to race Masters", "I don't race in rain, heat, wind" etc..... to all of these I have always said that we can not demand "fair" treatment if we do not consistently show up. No, I'm not saying 50-75 riders each race, like men, but if the senior women consistently had 25 women, we would not be having this discussion. I have never been able to figure out why our race numbers fluctuate so.
There are many teams in OR with women racers. I agree that we could be much more competitive. But that means that the women on those teams need to consistently race with each other. In order to work as a team, you need to race as a team. I struggle with this on my own team, so I know this is not easy to accomplish. I race a lot in WA and let me tell you it is expected that you will race often with your teammates. It shows. The teams in WA are much more tactical. I don't think we need special mentoriing or training, we just need time in the saddle during races.
Regarding the recent races. I have always done the Eugene Roubaix. Weeks ago (before the big brew-ha-ha on OBRA) i emailed the promoter to ask why there was no women's field. I got NO response. That is unacceptable, I should have received a response. Then there was the public outcry. Even then, when a women's field was posted the promoter did not encourage women to attend (in my opinion), it was more like he was forced to do it. I think he should have offered a reason for the omission in the first place an apology and an invitation to race. I chose (correctly in my mind) to go to a race that was guaranteed to have a huge competitive field in WA. I do not often do this, I usually choose to race in OR, but when a promoter is obviously not interested in my participation, I go elsewhere.
Regarding this weekend, I was planning on doing the race. The original flyer had the women racing in the afternoon. I made plans for Sunday morning. The race was changed. I emailed Jeff directly to let him know this meant that I was not coming. (not that my lack of attendance breaks his heart, but maybe he'll realize the impact of changing times)
Lastly, regarding pre-registration. Come on ladies step up. Every race that I can tell offers a refund if you are sick or injured, so the excuse of waiting until the day of race is moot. The process is simple and it is polite. If I was a promoter trying to figure out porta-potties, volunteers, etc.... I would want to know if people were coming or not. This takes a bit of forethought on your part, but do it.
Racing is fun, but I believe if we, the women of OBRA, do not continue to show up to prove our interest, we really have no leg to stand on to demand anything. I would certainly hate to see it go away..... then what would I do?
Hope to see more of you out there suffering with me.

On Fri 04/05/12 08:25 , "Candi Murray" cmurray@obra.org sent:

Ladies
I have been in discussion with a couple of races about which fields to offer. One event had the time allowed on course cut by the approving park and started to trim all fields that have had a small showing in the past. Out went Fixed Gear and Tandems. The next smallest field was the women 1/2/3

Heather VanValkenburg

Where are the ladies...?

It would be interesting to see the ratio of cat 1/2 men registered compared
to the total members as well, just to see if the actual ratio is close. The
fact is, there are just less women racers, right?

In October- December, the is only one discipline to race: CROSS, so
everyone races cross, regardless of their preferred discipline. In February
and March there is essentially one discipline to race- ROAD. As the year
ticks on, more opportunities open up. The mountain bikers do mountain bike
races, the time trial specialists do time trials, the track riders, focus
on the track races, and the triathletes begin to focus on this training.
This might answer WHERE some of the ladies are.

This is bound to ruffle a feather or two, so please know that my intention
is not to offend anyone...

When I first started racing, I did EVERYING. I did every road race, every
track race (even every time trial- good God.) If things went well, I did
the race the next year. If things didn't go well, I'd try the race the next
year to give it another chance. Just racing was exciting enough.... After a
few years, I learned what races I liked and what I didn't. The novelty of
just racing wore off, and I would do races suited to me....

I think some women, after 4...5...11 years of racing get a
"been-there-done-that" attitude. They pick and choose races they want to
do. They lose interest in every race, and instead decide on a few races, or
like the job of helping teammates. Or just prefer to not travel to as many
races.

"But there are so many Seattle area women racers!" Yes. There are also more
people in the Seattle area.

I'm not sure that this response offers any solution to the low numbers, but
hopefully explains a little of why and where... the ladies are (or aren't.)

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 8:25 AM, Candi Murray wrote:

> Ladies****
>
> I have been in discussion with a couple of races about which fields to
> offer. One event had the time allowed on course cut by the approving park
> and started to trim all fields that have had a small showing in the past.
> Out went Fixed Gear and Tandems. The next smallest field was the women
> 1/2/3.****
>
> We in OBRA are trying to encourage new riders, trying to encourage race
> organizers to offer events for the Cat 4 and Cat 5 riders to get them into
> the sport. And now that those fields are growing to split the Women 3 out.
> But how can we grow the sport if the riders at the very top are not turning
> out?****
>
> This week there is a new road race, I just checked pre registration and
> currently there are 1 Cat

Leia Tyrrell

I'm going to have to put my two bits in about this topic...

I personally have always been confused by the lack of woman that show
up to races, even those races that offer great prizes and work hard to
placate us. The first year of the Longview Criterium, there were only
about 6 woman in the field, even though the prize money was great.
Giro di Portlandia had a woman's field this last year with amazing
payout, hundreds of dollars, and the field only ended up with 19 woman
! That is less then a third of the 1/2/3 woman in OBRA in the Portland
area. I have to say I understand why promoters get fed up. Lots of
complaining about lack of fields, prizes, length of races ect... and
then when the promoter does something about it, no one shows up.

Let's show them that we care and race.
I will be at Montinore tomorrow as well, I am volunteering so I do not
show up on the pre-reg list.

Cheers,

Leia
On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Cheryl Willson wrote:
> FWIW, you _can_ see who has pre-registered. Scott added this fairly
> recently.
>
> For Montinore:
> http://obra.org/events/20541
>
> For Coast Hills:
> http://obra.org/events/20329
>
> I'll work to encourage promoters to add the link to their race flyers.
>
> Cheryl
>
>
>
> On May 4, 2012, at 10:41 AM, Karey Swan wrote:
>
> Thanks for all your comments!

Cheryl Willson

FWIW, you _can_ see who has pre-registered. Scott added this fairly recently.

For Montinore:
http://obra.org/events/20541

For Coast Hills:
http://obra.org/events/20329

I'll work to encourage promoters to add the link to their race flyers.

Cheryl

On May 4, 2012, at 10:41 AM, Karey Swan wrote:

> Thanks for all your comments! This is great to hear!
>
> Regarding the pre-reg - I was just using that as an example. I, personally, don't care about the $$$ or getting refunded - I have lost many race fees due to one reason or another - it's just part of the game. I think maybe if it was known that it helps the promotors plan/prepare for the race that this might influence pre-registration. Not everyone understands this concept and figures it's just as easy to reg on the day of.
>
> Another thing to note is that when I first started racing, you could always see you was preregistered. I understand that this is not a platform we have available (yet) for registering through the OBRA site - but I know that when I would go to register, I would get pretty amped up to see a list of women start to form and get more excited about who was going to be there when I knew the field size was growing for any particular race. This also lends a bit to competition and things like that. Just a thought....Not that it would make a huge difference on whether people pre-reg'd but it made a difference to me.
>
> Karey
>
>
> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Cheryl Willson wrote:
> Some (but not all) promoters are quite generous in their refund policies.
>
> On May 4, 2012, at 10:25 AM, matt Savage wrote:
>
>> 'In regards to the new race this weekend, I think pre-registration is another animal. There isn't much incentive to pre-reg, in my eyes. I mean, what if I get sick the night before - or whatever the case. I think it is a bigger deal if you know the field is going to get full - but I don't think Pre-registration means much to the ladies. By the time you register and pay the fees, the pre-reg incentive price isn't worth doing it ahead of time (this is just my two cents). We have about 5-6 women racing on Sunday, none of which have pre-reg'd and I know there are other teams headed over that are in the same boat. "
>>
>> Regarding preregistration... If you have 5-6 racers who intend to race on Sunday and say there are 3-4 others teams in the same boat, then why not just preregister? That's up to 30 people who are now on the list to race and that's really useful data for the promoters and OBRA to use to plan effectively for this race and future races. It shows intent on the part of the racers and allows promoters to gauge interest. Who cares about the fees...? I view the preregistration discount as less an incentive to just get people to race as it is an incentive to get people to preregister for the above mentioned reasons.
>>
>> So you get sick, or get a flat on the drive to the race and missed your start, so you're out 28 bucks... Chock it up to a dnf, as if you had a mechanical in the first mile or cramped or crashed and had to drop out. Same thing, you didn't finish... Don't worry about the money. There's more to prereg than just saving us a couple bucks. My two cents... And sorry for being a fella and chiming in, but I think this issue spans all genders and CAT's.
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 9:25 AM, Karey Swan wrote:
>> Hi Candi and all,
>>
>> This is definitely a loaded question and one that our team has talked about at length. We have noticed that it is becoming more and more difficult for women to race in Oregon. As you mentioned, more fields are being cut and the race distances are being shortened due to time/course/supprt constraints. Many times when a race promotor puts on a race he/she has no choice but to leave out or combine certain fields because of these limitations.
>>
>> The other aspect that we have talked about is that, because there are just not as many women racers as there are men, once you have 50 races on the race calendar, there aren't enough women to race every single race, so the field sizes are small. All things considered, if you have 1 racer, they may do 50% of all races (if they are pretty serious about racing). This means that there is 1 less woman at any of the other 50% of the races - and this stems to a lack of large field sizes in the womens fields.
>>
>> Often times, when a promotor cuts womens field, our first instinct is to get riled up - which is understandable. That being said, I'm wondering if a shift in race promotion/offerings might be our best bet. By this, i mean to offer a more limited run of races that have womens fields, but makes sure to let everyone know in plenty of advance which races may not offer a woman's field. If this was the case, yes, there would be less races for women to have their own race, but if these are excellent courses and good distances, they would draw a larger crowd of women. In a nut shell - less may be better.
>>
>> In regards to the new race this weekend, I think pre-registration is another animal. There isn't much incentive to pre-reg, in my eyes. I mean, what if I get sick the night before - or whatever the case. I think it is a bigger deal if you know the field is going to get full - but I don't think Pre-registration means much to the ladies. By the time you register and pay the fees, the pre-reg incentive price isn't worth doing it ahead of time (this is just my two cents). We have about 5-6 women racing on Sunday, none of which have pre-reg'd and I know there are other teams headed over that are in the same boat.
>>
>> Anyway, take it for what it is - I'd love to hear other women's feed back. I strongly promote beginners racing and mentoring and having fields available to everyone as well as Elite level racing - but in this case where we are dealing with smaller fields, I do think that less races on the calendar would result in larger field sizes. I think it would also be wise to look at when these races are offered (as far as promoting goes) because a lot of the 1/2/3 women attend larger races throughout Washington and Northern Cal, which I also think is great!
>>
>> Thanks
>> Karey Swan
>> Director - WCWC Team p/b Ninkasi
>> 541.556.0454
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 8:25 AM, Candi Murray wrote:
>> Ladies
>>
>> I have been in discussion with a couple of races about which fields to offer. One event had the time allowed on course cut by the approving park and started to trim all fields that have had a small showing in the past. Out went Fixed Gear and Tandems. The next smallest field was the women 1/2/3.
>>
>> We in OBRA are trying to encourage new riders, trying to encourage race organizers to offer events for the Cat 4 and Cat 5 riders to get them into the sport. And now that those fields are growing to split the Women 3 out. But how can we grow the sport if the riders at the very top are not turning out?
>>
>> This week there is a new road race, I just checked pre registration and currently there are 1 Cat

Karey Swan

Thanks for all your comments! This is great to hear!

Regarding the pre-reg - I was just using that as an example. I,
personally, don't care about the $$$ or getting refunded - I have lost many
race fees due to one reason or another - it's just part of the game. I
think maybe if it was known that it helps the promotors plan/prepare for
the race that this might influence pre-registration. Not everyone
understands this concept and figures it's just as easy to reg on the day
of.

Another thing to note is that when I first started racing, you could always
see you was preregistered. I understand that this is not a platform we
have available (yet) for registering through the OBRA site - but I know
that when I would go to register, I would get pretty amped up to see a list
of women start to form and get more excited about who was going to be there
when I knew the field size was growing for any particular race. This also
lends a bit to competition and things like that. Just a thought....Not
that it would make a huge difference on whether people pre-reg'd but it
made a difference to me.

Karey

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Cheryl Willson wrote:

> Some (but not all) promoters are quite generous in their refund policies.
>
> On May 4, 2012, at 10:25 AM, matt Savage wrote:
>
> 'In regards to the new race this weekend, I think pre-registration is
> another animal. There isn't much incentive to pre-reg, in my eyes. I
> mean, what if I get sick the night before - or whatever the case. I think
> it is a bigger deal if you know the field is going to get full - but I
> don't think Pre-registration means much to the ladies. By the time you
> register and pay the fees, the pre-reg incentive price isn't worth doing it
> ahead of time (this is just my two cents). We have about 5-6 women racing
> on Sunday, none of which have pre-reg'd and I know there are other teams
> headed over that are in the same boat. "
>
> Regarding preregistration... If you have 5-6 racers who *intend* to race
> on Sunday and say there are 3-4 others teams in the same boat, then why not
> just preregister? That's up to 30 people who are now on the list to race
> and that's really useful data for the promoters and OBRA to use to plan
> effectively for this race and future races. It shows intent on the part of
> the racers and allows promoters to gauge interest. Who cares about the
> fees...? I view the preregistration discount as less an incentive to just
> get people to race as it is an incentive to get people to preregister for
> the above mentioned reasons.
>
> So you get sick, or get a flat on the drive to the race and missed your
> start, so you're out 28 bucks... Chock it up to a dnf, as if you had a
> mechanical in the first mile or cramped or crashed and had to drop out.
> Same thing, you didn't finish... Don't worry about the money. There's
> more to prereg than just saving us a couple bucks. My two cents... And
> sorry for being a fella and chiming in, but I think this issue spans all
> genders and CAT's.
>
> -Matt
>
>
> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 9:25 AM, Karey Swan wrote:
>
>> Hi Candi and all,
>>
>> This is definitely a loaded question and one that our team has talked
>> about at length. We have noticed that it is becoming more and more
>> difficult for women to race in Oregon. As you mentioned, more fields are
>> being cut and the race distances are being shortened due to
>> time/course/supprt constraints. Many times when a race promotor puts on a
>> race he/she has no choice but to leave out or combine certain fields
>> because of these limitations.
>>
>> The other aspect that we have talked about is that, because there are
>> just not as many women racers as there are men, once you have 50 races on
>> the race calendar, there aren't enough women to race every single race, so
>> the field sizes are small. All things considered, if you have 1 racer,
>> they may do 50% of all races (if they are pretty serious about racing).
>> This means that there is 1 less woman at any of the other 50% of the races
>> - and this stems to a lack of large field sizes in the womens fields.
>>
>> Often times, when a promotor cuts womens field, our first instinct is to
>> get riled up - which is understandable. That being said, I'm wondering if a
>> shift in race promotion/offerings might be our best bet. By this, i mean
>> to offer a more limited run of races that have womens fields, but makes
>> sure to let everyone know in plenty of advance which races may not offer a
>> woman's field. If this was the case, yes, there would be less races for
>> women to have their own race, but if these are excellent courses and good
>> distances, they would draw a larger crowd of women. In a nut shell - less
>> may be better.
>>
>> In regards to the new race this weekend, I think pre-registration is
>> another animal. There isn't much incentive to pre-reg, in my eyes. I
>> mean, what if I get sick the night before - or whatever the case. I think
>> it is a bigger deal if you know the field is going to get full - but I
>> don't think Pre-registration means much to the ladies. By the time you
>> register and pay the fees, the pre-reg incentive price isn't worth doing it
>> ahead of time (this is just my two cents). We have about 5-6 women racing
>> on Sunday, none of which have pre-reg'd and I know there are other teams
>> headed over that are in the same boat.
>>
>> Anyway, take it for what it is - I'd love to hear other women's feed
>> back. I strongly promote beginners racing and mentoring and having fields
>> available to everyone as well as Elite level racing - but in this case
>> where we are dealing with smaller fields, I do think that less races on the
>> calendar would result in larger field sizes. I think it would also be wise
>> to look at when these races are offered (as far as promoting goes) because
>> a lot of the 1/2/3 women attend larger races throughout Washington and
>> Northern Cal, which I also think is great!
>>
>> Thanks
>> Karey Swan
>> Director - WCWC Team p/b Ninkasi
>> 541.556.0454
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 8:25 AM, Candi Murray wrote:
>>
>>> Ladies****
>>>
>>> I have been in discussion with a couple of races about which fields to
>>> offer. One event had the time allowed on course cut by the approving park
>>> and started to trim all fields that have had a small showing in the past.
>>> Out went Fixed Gear and Tandems. The next smallest field was the women
>>> 1/2/3.****
>>>
>>> We in OBRA are trying to encourage new riders, trying to encourage race
>>> organizers to offer events for the Cat 4 and Cat 5 riders to get them into
>>> the sport. And now that those fields are growing to split the Women 3 out.
>>> But how can we grow the sport if the riders at the very top are not turning
>>> out?****
>>>
>>> This week there is a new road race, I just checked pre registration and
>>> currently there are 1 Cat

Cheryl Willson

Some (but not all) promoters are quite generous in their refund policies.

On May 4, 2012, at 10:25 AM, matt Savage wrote:

> 'In regards to the new race this weekend, I think pre-registration is another animal. There isn't much incentive to pre-reg, in my eyes. I mean, what if I get sick the night before - or whatever the case. I think it is a bigger deal if you know the field is going to get full - but I don't think Pre-registration means much to the ladies. By the time you register and pay the fees, the pre-reg incentive price isn't worth doing it ahead of time (this is just my two cents). We have about 5-6 women racing on Sunday, none of which have pre-reg'd and I know there are other teams headed over that are in the same boat. "
>
> Regarding preregistration... If you have 5-6 racers who intend to race on Sunday and say there are 3-4 others teams in the same boat, then why not just preregister? That's up to 30 people who are now on the list to race and that's really useful data for the promoters and OBRA to use to plan effectively for this race and future races. It shows intent on the part of the racers and allows promoters to gauge interest. Who cares about the fees...? I view the preregistration discount as less an incentive to just get people to race as it is an incentive to get people to preregister for the above mentioned reasons.
>
> So you get sick, or get a flat on the drive to the race and missed your start, so you're out 28 bucks... Chock it up to a dnf, as if you had a mechanical in the first mile or cramped or crashed and had to drop out. Same thing, you didn't finish... Don't worry about the money. There's more to prereg than just saving us a couple bucks. My two cents... And sorry for being a fella and chiming in, but I think this issue spans all genders and CAT's.
>
> -Matt
>
>
> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 9:25 AM, Karey Swan wrote:
> Hi Candi and all,
>
> This is definitely a loaded question and one that our team has talked about at length. We have noticed that it is becoming more and more difficult for women to race in Oregon. As you mentioned, more fields are being cut and the race distances are being shortened due to time/course/supprt constraints. Many times when a race promotor puts on a race he/she has no choice but to leave out or combine certain fields because of these limitations.
>
> The other aspect that we have talked about is that, because there are just not as many women racers as there are men, once you have 50 races on the race calendar, there aren't enough women to race every single race, so the field sizes are small. All things considered, if you have 1 racer, they may do 50% of all races (if they are pretty serious about racing). This means that there is 1 less woman at any of the other 50% of the races - and this stems to a lack of large field sizes in the womens fields.
>
> Often times, when a promotor cuts womens field, our first instinct is to get riled up - which is understandable. That being said, I'm wondering if a shift in race promotion/offerings might be our best bet. By this, i mean to offer a more limited run of races that have womens fields, but makes sure to let everyone know in plenty of advance which races may not offer a woman's field. If this was the case, yes, there would be less races for women to have their own race, but if these are excellent courses and good distances, they would draw a larger crowd of women. In a nut shell - less may be better.
>
> In regards to the new race this weekend, I think pre-registration is another animal. There isn't much incentive to pre-reg, in my eyes. I mean, what if I get sick the night before - or whatever the case. I think it is a bigger deal if you know the field is going to get full - but I don't think Pre-registration means much to the ladies. By the time you register and pay the fees, the pre-reg incentive price isn't worth doing it ahead of time (this is just my two cents). We have about 5-6 women racing on Sunday, none of which have pre-reg'd and I know there are other teams headed over that are in the same boat.
>
> Anyway, take it for what it is - I'd love to hear other women's feed back. I strongly promote beginners racing and mentoring and having fields available to everyone as well as Elite level racing - but in this case where we are dealing with smaller fields, I do think that less races on the calendar would result in larger field sizes. I think it would also be wise to look at when these races are offered (as far as promoting goes) because a lot of the 1/2/3 women attend larger races throughout Washington and Northern Cal, which I also think is great!
>
> Thanks
> Karey Swan
> Director - WCWC Team p/b Ninkasi
> 541.556.0454
>
>
> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 8:25 AM, Candi Murray wrote:
> Ladies
>
> I have been in discussion with a couple of races about which fields to offer. One event had the time allowed on course cut by the approving park and started to trim all fields that have had a small showing in the past. Out went Fixed Gear and Tandems. The next smallest field was the women 1/2/3.
>
> We in OBRA are trying to encourage new riders, trying to encourage race organizers to offer events for the Cat 4 and Cat 5 riders to get them into the sport. And now that those fields are growing to split the Women 3 out. But how can we grow the sport if the riders at the very top are not turning out?
>
> This week there is a new road race, I just checked pre registration and currently there are 1 Cat

Leibowitz, Flo

Karey, I think you have hit on something really key here.

".... because there are just not as many women racers as there are men, once you have 50 races on the race calendar, there aren't enough women to race every single race, so the field sizes are small. All things considered, if you have 1 racer, they may do 50% of all races (if they are pretty serious about racing). This means that there is 1 less woman at any of the other 50% of the races..."

I am not in the 1/2/3 field. But if I were, this would ring a very loud bell. In a way, OBRA has been SO successful with promoting races, that its success here is ironically creating this situation.

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Karey Swan
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 9:26 AM
To: cmurray@obra.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; obra_women@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] [OBRA Women] Calling Cat 1/2/3 women

Hi Candi and all,

This is definitely a loaded question and one that our team has talked about at length. We have noticed that it is becoming more and more difficult for women to race in Oregon. As you mentioned, more fields are being cut and the race distances are being shortened due to time/course/supprt constraints. Many times when a race promotor puts on a race he/she has no choice but to leave out or combine certain fields because of these limitations.

The other aspect that we have talked about is that, because there are just not as many women racers as there are men, once you have 50 races on the race calendar, there aren't enough women to race every single race, so the field sizes are small. All things considered, if you have 1 racer, they may do 50% of all races (if they are pretty serious about racing). This means that there is 1 less woman at any of the other 50% of the races - and this stems to a lack of large field sizes in the womens fields.

Often times, when a promotor cuts womens field, our first instinct is to get riled up - which is understandable. That being said, I'm wondering if a shift in race promotion/offerings might be our best bet. By this, i mean to offer a more limited run of races that have womens fields, but makes sure to let everyone know in plenty of advance which races may not offer a woman's field. If this was the case, yes, there would be less races for women to have their own race, but if these are excellent courses and good distances, they would draw a larger crowd of women. In a nut shell - less may be better.

In regards to the new race this weekend, I think pre-registration is another animal. There isn't much incentive to pre-reg, in my eyes. I mean, what if I get sick the night before - or whatever the case. I think it is a bigger deal if you know the field is going to get full - but I don't think Pre-registration means much to the ladies. By the time you register and pay the fees, the pre-reg incentive price isn't worth doing it ahead of time (this is just my two cents). We have about 5-6 women racing on Sunday, none of which have pre-reg'd and I know there are other teams headed over that are in the same boat.

Anyway, take it for what it is - I'd love to hear other women's feed back. I strongly promote beginners racing and mentoring and having fields available to everyone as well as Elite level racing - but in this case where we are dealing with smaller fields, I do think that less races on the calendar would result in larger field sizes. I think it would also be wise to look at when these races are offered (as far as promoting goes) because a lot of the 1/2/3 women attend larger races throughout Washington and Northern Cal, which I also think is great!

Thanks
Karey Swan
Director - WCWC Team p/b Ninkasi
541.556.0454

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 8:25 AM, Candi Murray > wrote:
Ladies
I have been in discussion with a couple of races about which fields to offer. One event had the time allowed on course cut by the approving park and started to trim all fields that have had a small showing in the past. Out went Fixed Gear and Tandems. The next smallest field was the women 1/2/3.
We in OBRA are trying to encourage new riders, trying to encourage race organizers to offer events for the Cat 4 and Cat 5 riders to get them into the sport. And now that those fields are growing to split the Women 3 out. But how can we grow the sport if the riders at the very top are not turning out?
This week there is a new road race, I just checked pre registration and currently there are 1 Cat