john
Ok so I am feeling better. And I apoligize for the leap in pre-judgement.
Your (Jon's) perception of the event is probably more accurate. Obviously
I know that 99 % if not 100% of us, are not cavalier about crashing /
causing crashes. My sister, is into drama somewhat, so she probably took
tidbits of what she heard and took it from there...
Mainly I had been hearing / sensing that people are like Oh "crash 4/5"
category and I wanted to address that and give some advice. I used this
crash to make these points. (I didn't want anyone (other than my wife:) to
feel sorry for me, obviously Others have got it way worse than me...)
So actually my mistake was in slowing down waiting for the Pack. If i
had put out just a little more effort I could stayed with the two guys that
evidently stayed away !
I remember glancing back and there was pretty good gap, and then i was
down, I just didn't expect the pack on me so quick, and to be hit with no
warning. I was going slower, obviously, (but i didn't think i had slowed
too much...) so I was taking a sharper line than the pack. But anyway, I
now know to look out for this...
I am really not hurt too badly, and my wife now thinks that if this is as
worse as it gets (knock on wood) than its not too bad..
My bike frame. Old cannondale caad something frame and fork off ebay $250
3 years ago, and its still rideable. Rear rim is bent , but i build my
own wheels. so No big deal. it was new rim and i wasn't sure if I liked it
anyway. Front wheel trued right up. Only other thing was the front
brake bolt that goes into the fork, it was badly bent but that was just
interesting, why would that bend and nothing much else?
BTW, pitch for IRONCLAD. The gloves I got 4 or 5? years ago at swan
island crit, saved my hands. There is now a small hole in them, but they
still look great/ are fine..
And btw you couldn't find me, because i was in the lucky lab... probably on
the 2nd pint at that point :) Now that i think about that's probably why i
headed for the first aid tent right away, So i could spend time in the
lucky lab with out worrying about infection setting in..
-john
On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 6:13 PM, wrote:
> John,
>
> I'm sorry you went down when we collided, but I don't share your
> perception of the event. First of all, to say that I was "not paying
> attention" and "pile-drived" into you is a gross misunderstanding. I'm not
> an aggressive, inattentive racer. My teammates and friends who know me
> well would say that I'm a conservative racer and rarely take risks. In
> fact, I ride pretty conservatively because I'm 55 years old and know how
> long it takes to heal from injury.
>
> Regarding the crash, each of us has our own perception and mine happens to
> be different than yours. Here's how I saw it. I was at the front of the
> group as we came upon that first turn past the start/finish line and the
> pace was very fast. I saw you up ahead as you took the corner a little
> wide while going at a somewhat slower pace than the main group. I took the
> same line I had taken the first few laps which was tight on the corner.
> Since you were off to the left a bit it looked like there was plenty of
> room to go by you as long as you held your line. As I started to go by you
> it seemed that you took a sharper angle putting you directly in line with
> my path as I came out of the corner. I didn't expect you to take that
> angle and our dissimilar trajectories put us shoulder to shoulder. You
> were right there before I could even think of braking or changing course.
> Besides, there were guys right on my wheel. I was as shocked as you were
> and very surprised that I did not go down, since I clearly weigh less than
> you (I'm 5'-7" and 152 lbs). Probably due to momentum and speed coming
> from inside out kept me from going down. I was lucky, I admit that. But I
> take exception to what your sister said she overheard - that I thought I
> was "impressed with myself" for not paying attention, colliding with you
> and staying upright is clearly wrong. I felt terrible that you and others
> went down because I've been in that situation, and with brand new wheels
> and drivetrain, having about 10 guys ride over the top of me after I went
> down. Broken bike and messed up shoulder. Not something I would wish on
> anyone, nor would I intentionally risk putting someone else in that
> situation.
>
> When you talk about someone's attitude without knowing them or before ever
> speaking with them, you're making quite a leap in pre-judgment of an
> individual. My attitude with regard to racing is to stay upright and as
> safe as possible, even if it means sacrificing a placement in a race. I'm
> not the guy you described.
>
> I'm sorry again that you went down and your bike suffered damage, as well.
> I asked about you at the first aid tent, but you had already left. I hope
> you heal well and can get back to racing soon.
>
> Jon Gornick
> Pacific Power Blue Sky
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"john"
> *To: *"Obra"
> *Sent: *Monday, July 9, 2012 1:36:39 PM
> *Subject: *[OBRA Chat] Saint Honore Criterium Crash and Comment
>
>
> First the Race Course was awesome, a lot of fun and I hope it is around
> next year. It was going to be great entertainment for some family and
> friends who came to watch. Also my first time to First Aid Canopy, very
> impressed / grateful, a big thank-you! I hope I was the only
> visitor. Promoter and Obra Officials were doing a great job as always !
>
>
>
> Unfortunately I only got to race it for 10 minutes before someone Who
> wasn't Paying Attention pile-drived into me and knocked me over (that
> then caused 2 others to go down, hope you guys are OK?, sorry I yelled at
> you, at the time I thought one of you caused the crash.)
>
>
>
> How do I know they weren't Paying Attention ? Well first, in my 23 years
> of on and off racing I have never had or seen this happen before. (If you
> had sneaked up and wacked me with a 2x4 it would have been almost as
> effective).
>
>
>
> Now I know I was wearing red, and the running of the bulls is going on as
> well, but If I had any idea that I was about to be "gored", believe me I
> would have been trying much harder to stay away!
>
>
>
> But also my sister overheard , after the race, evidently somone being
> somewhat impressed with themselves, specifically stating that they weren't
> paying attention, ran into someone, bounced off them, but managed to stay
> upright and keep racing.
>
>
>
> That this is the attitude is somewhat disconcerting, rather, then " I
> totally wasn't paying attention, set up my corner stupidly, and I feel
> really bad about crashing someone out." (Look this isn't cyclocross where
> you might make it through a slippery corner by bouncing off people.
> Crashing into mud or grass isn't as painful or as expensive as a road
> crash.)
>
>
>
> Now I probably wouldn't have bothered with this email, except to attempt
> to address this attitude, especially as cross racers, and older folk, who
> didn't learn or have the mentoring that juniors get. (I find its really
> easy to give junior advice, they listen really well to someone senior then
> them.. It's often almost impossible to give someone older than you
> advice...)
>
>
>
> I almost didn't use the first aid, because I thought was just scraped
> slightly. WRONG. I am very glad I utilized them, Holy crap do I have some
> road burn, furthermore my ankle isn't quite right, my arm doesn't like to
> move (so much for painting on the house on sunday). Both wheels ruined,
> and huge dent in the seat-stay (some plier work sort of made it semi-round
> again), scraped up my brand-new huge-splurge-for-me sidi 's, etc, etc. But
> mainly my wife's pyche is now sensitized to me racing (and for nieces,
> step-son and -daughter).
>
> The point being: Everyone really needs to race with attitude of
> responsibility, put yourself into being a victim. Can you afford one or
> two crashes a year ? Other than this, I thought everyone was doing
> fairly well. But of course all it takes is once: )
>
>
>
> So on to some pointers / advice as we move into "crit" season (barring
> anymore crashes the "fun" season.)
>
>
>
> 1. Crashing is NOT part of racing (yes I know crashes happen, but) AND
> (imo) it should not be particular to Cat 4's, Especially if 35+. If you
> race with the attitude that Crashes are part of racing and that crashes are
> OK, then you are WRONG. And you need to adjust your attitude. Nothing
> ruins the sport faster than crashes. Especially at our age, at our
> category where we are just trying to have fun, stay fit, and maybe inspire
> your children. Let's not scare the wives and mothers, husbands, fathers.
> And also I, and surely others, would rather donate money to the velodrome
> or etc, rather then needing to keep a supply of wheels and frames on hand,
> or pay medical bills
>
> 2. Heads up at all times. Like Stay aware, I know, really basic, but
> evidently this was the cause of this particular crash.
>
> 3. No sudden movements. No sudden braking if possible, no swerving. When
> I started group riding some 25 years ago, I was taught and still hold this
> principle: If there is pothole that you didn't see until the last
> second, or waterbottle appears in front of you, YOU HIT IT ! even if it
> means getting a flat or ruined wheels. YOU NEVER EVER SWERVE in the
> pack.
>
> 4. Higher Cadence. Most of you are pushing way too big of a gear. When
> one pushes a big gear, one tends to swerve. Learn to spin. Practice
> overspinning. This by the way, IMHO, is one of the reasons for all the
> crashes in the Pro races I know by experience that this is more
> difficult as you get older. For when I was a junior I could easily go
> over 200 rpm.
>
> 5. Stretch the hamstrings, get flexible. All of you look like stiff
> boards out there trying to ride. Relax. Stay flexible... this too, my
> experience, requires more work as you get older.
>
> 6. Try not to use brakes. and If you are new to riding corners, go and
> practice. Big cornering hint: If you come out of the saddle slightly,
> the weight transfers to the Bot brack/front wheel, and you _can't_ slide
> out (on dry pavement). Stick your head into the corner. Like skiing, or
> other sports, look where you want to go. Being relaxed and flexible, help
> as well.
>
> 7. In the last lap or two, and/or the speed picks up, and you had been
> pedaling through the corners, watch out ! At the higher speed, you will
> now probably clip, if you try to pedal the corners.
>
> 8. Look, fitness is great, and it is great that there are "coaching"
> services that can make you really fit and strong. But that is only half of
> road racing. Example when I raced junior in the midwest, the peloton was
> often 75 to 100 riders. We were packed into the road honey-combed, almost
> constantly there would be a hand or brake hood up on my hip, as well mine
> up against someone elses. We rarely if ever crashed, But that's because we
> all trained in our teams/clubs this way. Always doing tight pacelines.
>
>
>
> Lets have fun and stay safe,
>
> I am just happy I am still able to race, 23 years after I started!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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