Kevin

and the line I hold (my line) may not be what your preferred line is

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE too smartphone

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] St. Honore Crash thoughts
From: Thom Schoenborn
Date: Tue, 10-Jul-2012 16:42
To: Steve Scarich
CC: obra@list.obra.org

I agree. But theoretically speaking, what's the inverse of your scenario? That the passer would *try* to hit another rider? Or more confusingly, that they would *not* attempt to avoid the person ahead of them? "I'm going for the pass and that guy better move out of my way!"

We ride in a sport where we're literally inches from each others' wheels. There's not two-second follow distance in the peloton. (Not that I don't trust you jokers, but that's *exactly* why I'm sandbagging in short track instead of racing on the road: fear.)

I suppose I'm picking nits here, but my point is that in a pack ripping around at 25-30 mph, there's a lot of *shared* responsibility to:
- hold your line
- pull through smoothly
- swing off before you slow down
- not grab a handful of brake at every little twitch
- not drop your water bottle
- pick a relatively safe moment to pass
- put a fender extender on your rear wheel for rain rides
- only pee in the porta-potties
- avoid terrifying the juniors
- pin your numbers on correctly
- yell at people who blow through stop signs
- match your saddle to your handlebar tape
- cut the officials some slack

and

- not ram the guy in front of you

-Thom

On Jul 10, 2012, at 3:42 PM, Steve Scarich wrote:

> I don't want to comment on the facts of this crash. I wasn't there, didn't see it, etc. But, here's a theoretical question: I have always held the belief that in bike racing, it is the 'passer', i.e. the rider approaching from behind, who has primary responsibility for avoiding a crash. He/she can see and anticipate what is coming up, while the rider in front, generally cannot. There are all kinds of exceptions of course, e.g. the front rider makes an abrupt movement or is going really slow, etc. What do others think of my 'basic principle'?
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Thom Schoenborn

I agree. But theoretically speaking, what's the inverse of your scenario? That the passer would *try* to hit another rider? Or more confusingly, that they would *not* attempt to avoid the person ahead of them? "I'm going for the pass and that guy better move out of my way!"

We ride in a sport where we're literally inches from each others' wheels. There's not two-second follow distance in the peloton. (Not that I don't trust you jokers, but that's *exactly* why I'm sandbagging in short track instead of racing on the road: fear.)

I suppose I'm picking nits here, but my point is that in a pack ripping around at 25-30 mph, there's a lot of *shared* responsibility to:
- hold your line
- pull through smoothly
- swing off before you slow down
- not grab a handful of brake at every little twitch
- not drop your water bottle
- pick a relatively safe moment to pass
- put a fender extender on your rear wheel for rain rides
- only pee in the porta-potties
- avoid terrifying the juniors
- pin your numbers on correctly
- yell at people who blow through stop signs
- match your saddle to your handlebar tape
- cut the officials some slack

and

- not ram the guy in front of you

-Thom

On Jul 10, 2012, at 3:42 PM, Steve Scarich wrote:

> I don't want to comment on the facts of this crash. I wasn't there, didn't see it, etc. But, here's a theoretical question: I have always held the belief that in bike racing, it is the 'passer', i.e. the rider approaching from behind, who has primary responsibility for avoiding a crash. He/she can see and anticipate what is coming up, while the rider in front, generally cannot. There are all kinds of exceptions of course, e.g. the front rider makes an abrupt movement or is going really slow, etc. What do others think of my 'basic principle'?
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Ben Fischler

Agreed. I'm no expert on racing etiquette & rules, but I think this principle applies to 99% of these situations in life.

"Ski In Control"

-Ben

AnimationMentor.com
[ ben.fischler@gmail.com ]

On Jul 10, 2012, at 3:42 PM, Steve Scarich wrote:

> I don't want to comment on the facts of this crash. I wasn't there, didn't see it, etc. But, here's a theoretical question: I have always held the belief that in bike racing, it is the 'passer', i.e. the rider approaching from behind, who has primary responsibility for avoiding a crash. He/she can see and anticipate what is coming up, while the rider in front, generally cannot. There are all kinds of exceptions of course, e.g. the front rider makes an abrupt movement or is going really slow, etc. What do others think of my 'basic principle'?

Ron Frerichs

I agree with both of Steve's points...sometimes it's the rider in back's fault...and sometimes it's the rider in front's fault.

I also think that sometimes...it just happens.

Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 15:45:51 -0700
From: srh148@yahoo.com
To: sscarich@peoplepc.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] St. Honore Crash thoughts

I agree.

STEVEN R HOLLAND
C(360) 600-2702

From: Steve Scarich
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 3:42 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] St. Honore Crash thoughts

I don't want to comment on the facts of this crash. I wasn't there, didn't see it, etc. But, here's a theoretical question: I have always held the belief that in bike racing, it is the 'passer', i.e. the rider approaching from behind, who has primary responsibility for avoiding a crash. He/she can see and anticipate what is coming up, while the rider in front, generally cannot. There are all kinds of exceptions of course, e.g. the front rider makes an abrupt movement or is going really slow, etc. What do others think of my 'basic principle'?
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

STEVEN R HOLLAND

I agree.

STEVEN R HOLLAND
C(360) 600-2702

________________________________
From: Steve Scarich
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 3:42 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] St. Honore Crash thoughts

I don't want to comment on the facts of this crash. I wasn't there, didn't see it, etc. But, here's a theoretical question: I have always held the belief that in bike racing, it is the 'passer', i.e. the rider approaching from behind, who has primary responsibility for avoiding a crash. He/she can see and anticipate what is coming up, while the rider in front, generally cannot. There are all kinds of exceptions of course, e.g. the front rider makes an abrupt movement or is going really slow, etc. What do others think of my 'basic principle'?
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Steve Scarich

I don't want to comment on the facts of this crash. I wasn't there, didn't see it, etc. But, here's a theoretical question: I have always held the belief that in bike racing, it is the 'passer', i.e. the rider approaching from behind, who has primary responsibility for avoiding a crash. He/she can see and anticipate what is coming up, while the rider in front, generally cannot. There are all kinds of exceptions of course, e.g. the front rider makes an abrupt movement or is going really slow, etc. What do others think of my 'basic principle'?